The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[GMK]

That wasn't In-atmosphere?

[JB0]

That wasn't In-atmosphere?

Debatably. There's an argument to be made that atmosphere is explicitly part of a planet.

But ejection inside a pressurized space ship behaves as if it were In atmosphere, so it's a moot point.

[GMK]

Hmm. Maybe. I thought that compartment was open to space?

[Seto Kaiba]

Hmm. Maybe. I thought that compartment was open to space?

It was, briefly, but the hull breach they opened up with their missiles was sealed by an emergency bulkhead and (presumably) pressure was restored.

[GMK]

Fair enough. My recollection is that Bretai jumped from outside the ship to land on Kakizaki, making that compartment open to space?

Regardless, would Hikaru have required a parachute if he hadn't been caught by Bretai?

Edited March 31, 2015 by GMK

[JB0]

Fair enough. My recollection is that Bretai jumped from outside the ship to land on Kakizaki, making that compartment open to space?

Jumped from an internal corridor, if I recall. Came in the airlock, headed back to the hanger, then DEATH FROM ABOVE.

Regardless, would Hikaru have required a parachute if he hadn't been caught by Bretai?

Good question.

I like to believe he'd ride the ejection thrusters down "because overtech". But he probably needed a parachute.

[HannouHeiki]

I'm confident an "overtech" parachute was stuffed somewhere in that seat, or that little backpack.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm confident an "overtech" parachute was stuffed somewhere in that seat, or that little backpack.

The ejection diagram in the old Sky Angels VF-1 tech manual (penned shortly after the series) shows the parachute is in the seatback.

[GMK]

Ah - thanks

[Andras]

I found an interesting factoid in the Sky Angels book.

The VF-1 has an exhaust velocity of 10km/sec and a total delta-v of 6530m/s

http://i.imgur.com/SJKoO7N.png

I figured this wasn't worth a thread on it's own, and we don't really have a thread for the technical discussion of the VF-1 (do we?).

Edited April 3, 2015 by Andras

[calubin_175]

Despite being canon or not, I liked how they showed that there is hardly a standard color available and that each squadron has their own color according to their assigned carrier, base and region.

After going through them, I noticed that there weren't many references(VF-19) to squadrons in the VF-X games. I am not sure whether the VF-22 book would draw some examples.

They do mention Macross 7's Emerald Force's VF-19 and even their post 2059 VF-25. Ozma is mentioned getting another VF-25S.

I think the next candidate for a Master File would be VF-4, VF-11 and the VF-17/171 series. The elusive VF-3000/5000 won't get a chance since the VF-4 is the signature VF for non-animated works.

[Mr March]

I think the intention for the Variable FIghter Master File books is to simply feature content, not include specific squadrons from the video games. The VFMF books also don't reprint any of the existing squadrons from other books, such as those VF-1, VF-4, VF-5000, VA-3, VF-17, YF-19 and YF-21 squadron markings from This Is Animation Special Macross Plus. I suspect most folks buying the book would prefer to see new stuff. I don't own the VFMF "Squadrons" book, so perhaps some VF-1 stuff is reprinted in there?

[Seto Kaiba]

After going through them, I noticed that there weren't many references(VF-19) to squadrons in the VF-X games. I am not sure whether the VF-22 book would draw some examples.

Well, part of that might be because the Independent Special Command units aren't really squadrons, per se... whereas the special operations teams like Diamond and Emerald Force are.

The VF-22 book does something bizarre here... they show a Uraga-class carrier with the Saratoga II's hull number (565) circa 2044, but it's a normal Uraga-class carrier attached to the Macross-7 fleet instead of the Macross-13 fleet variant that actually appeared in the Macross VF-X2 game.

There IS a VF-X Ravens VF-22 in the book on page 111... with special commemorative markings for "Holtzand 10th Anniversary"?

I think the intention for the Variable FIghter Master File books is to simply feature content, not include specific squadrons from the video games. The VFMF books also don't reprint any of the existing squadrons from other books, such as those VF-1, VF-4, VF-5000, VA-3, VF-17, YF-19 and YF-21 squadron markings from This Is Animation Special Macross Plus. I suspect most folks buying the book would prefer to see new stuff. I don't own the VFMF "Squadrons" book, so perhaps some VF-1 stuff is reprinted in there?

Well, they sometimes reprint squadrons from other VFMF books... but that's kind of rare.

[calubin_175]

Funny thing is, VF-1 Space Wings page 108 teased a publication on the VF-4, 3000 and 5000 ヴァリアブルファイター・マスターファイル 希望の翼. It probably means there is no chance of them getting their own books at present time since there is very little material available on them and that genealogy page already has a short profile on each of them, which is more than enough for a non mainstream media design.

By the way, does anyway know of any in-universe info on the Minmay Guard VF-1S?

Edited April 5, 2015 by calubin_175

[Seto Kaiba]

By the way, does anyway know of any in-universe info on the Minmay Guard VF-1S?

Nope... I've never seen anything on it, and to be honest I'd never thought it was an official in-universe thing.

The VF-25 Master File has a paint scheme for a unit that sounds roughly analogous to the Minmay Guard's theoretical purpose on page 125. It's a VF-25F from the "Queen's Knights", which has some Sheryl Nome-specific iconography painted on it.

[Andras]

Sky Angels also gives the GU-11 a muzzle velocity of 5980m/sec. Has that ever been changed in a later publication?

'Cuz if not, wow, with a GAU-8 API round scaled up to 55mm, that's roughly a 2.4kg shell hitting for 43MJ each.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Andras

[Mr March]

I believe the Sky Angels muzzle velocity figure for the GU-11 was debunked about the same time as the book was published, since official trivia for SDFM printed muzzle velocities FAR below that crazy figure. For example, the 78 mm high-speed automatic cannons of the MBR-04-Mk X Destroid Defender have an official muzzle velocity of 3,300 m/s...seems highly unlikely a dedicated long-range projectile platform like the Defender would have weapons with an inferior muzzle velocity to a VF-1 gun pod if that particular Sky Angels figure were to be believed. It would also be rather ridiculous for the GU-11 gun pod to have a muzzle velocity of 5,980 m/s if the VF-25G Messiah's best long range dedicated sniper rilfe some 50 years later only managed to achieve 6,200 m/s

In the Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.1 page 52, the GU-11 Gun Pod for the VF-1 Valkyrie is rated with a muzzle velocity of 2,000 m/s. In the Variable Fighter Master File: VF-19 Excalibur page 71, the Howard GU-15 Gun Pod for the YF-19 is rated with a muzzle velocity of 4,000 m/s. These figures fit a lot better into the established official muzzle velocities of the Macross mecha, from 2009 all the way to 2059. And at 2,000 m/s, that still gives the GU-11 an astounding 4.86 MJ per round, or 97 MJ per second, making it eight times more destructive than the best tank cannon we currently have.

So yeah, that's a BIG bada-boom

[Andras]

But VFMF has no more 'legal' standing the SkyA does, right? That's two non-canon sources contradicting each other.

Does the Chronicle say anything? That's one of the few official sources.

Larger bore cannon like the 78mm should have a lower MV then the small bore guns. For example, the Oto Melara 76mm has a m/v of 905m/s, while the 35mm Oerlikon runs 1175m/s. In this case the longer range gun has the lower m/v, 2-4x the range in fact.

The Oto127/64 has a lower MV and even longer eff range then the 76mm. Shell weight determines eff range, not m/v.

BTW, have they ever defined the difference between 'Standard T/O weight' and 'Maximum T/O weight' in the published stats?

[Seto Kaiba]

But VFMF has no more 'legal' standing the SkyA does, right? That's two non-canon sources contradicting each other.

Well, if we really wanted to furiously pick nits with all the zeal of an amphetamine-fueled monkey... the old Sky Angels book is a doujinshi, while Variable Fighter Master File is at least an official licensed product even though it's not canon, and was supervised by Kawamori. Theoretically, VFMF should be more reliable (to the point that that matters in non-canon material) than the old doujinshi... esp. since the initial VF-1 Master File is, in many ways, a modernized version of what's there in Sky Angels.

Does the Chronicle say anything? That's one of the few official sources.

Nope.

Larger bore cannon like the 78mm should have a lower MV then the small bore guns. For example, the Oto Melara 76mm has a m/v of 905m/s, while the 35mm Oerlikon runs 1175m/s. In this case the longer range gun has the lower m/v, 2-4x the range in fact.

The Oto127/64 has a lower MV and even longer eff range then the 76mm. Shell weight determines eff range, not m/v.

Depends what it's being used for... and it doesn't always hold true that the larger round should have the lower muzzle velocity. The GAU-8/A's muzzle velocity for its 30mm rounds is marginally faster than the M61's for 20mm, for instance.

Since ballistics plays by slightly different rules in space, and overtechnology-based armor materials are terrifying stuff, I'd say it's more a question of maximizing stopping power and ensuring a hit on a highly agile target rather than striking from the farthest distance possible when it comes to muzzle velocity.

BTW, have they ever defined the difference between 'Standard T/O weight' and 'Maximum T/O weight' in the published stats?

Not in terms of "this is what makes up that weight", AFAIK.

[Mr March]

Yeah, there are only three official figures for muzzle velocity in Macross; the VF-0 Phoenix GPU-9 (1,100 m/s), the Defender 78 mm guns (3,300 m/s) and the SSL-9B Sniper Rifle (6,200 m/s to 7,490 ms in space). So you can imagine basically any figure you want. But like I said, personally, 5,980 m/s for the GU-11 throws all the official figures all out of whack. At that velocity, there's really no room for improvement to ANY other gun pod for the next 50 years of technological advancement AND what the hell is even the point of the sniper rifle if the GU-11 is just as good? It'd also be rather odd for there to be such a massive gulf in performance between the GPU-9 and the GU-11, which - if we used the VFMF figure - is currently only 900 m/s difference.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Mr March

[JB0]

... and overtechnology-based armor materials are terrifying stuff...

And then you add energy reinforcement on top of that...

I don't deny that an alien gunship capable of FTL travel crashing on Earth would cause such a radical shakeup in the state of the art, but it's mind-bogglingly crazy powerful stuff.

[Nekko Basara]

I have some VB-6 questions!

My wonderful wife got me a Bandai DX Koenig Monster for my (mumble mumble) birthday, and having the design in hand has made me realize how little I understand about how it "works" in-universe. The Mecha Manual explained a lot, but here's what I can't figure out:

The cockpit:

Does the crew end up in the "head" section in destroid mode? (I am following the Manual in calling the humanoid mode "destroid," although I really want to use that term for the gerwalk because of its resemblance to the original Destroid Monster.) That would be strange for a variable aircraft, but - at least in the toy - the section with the windows appears to be nothing more than a shell. And, if the crew is in the head, how do the windows function in other modes?

Also - and this is just my bad memory - did Canaria have two gunners, or did she control hers solo?

The armament:

Is the destroid mode capable of firing the railguns and, if so, how does it align them with a target, and how does it take the recoil? Also, can they be fired when they are bent forwards and "detached" from the backpack section, or only when all of those parts are connected?

Is the destroid mode capable of reversing the arms and using the missile launchers? Likewise, can the gerwalk mode employ the "hands?"

The modes:

What is the purpose of the destroid mode versus the gerwalk? It seems to interfere with at least some of the armament, and I suspect its agility isn't all that impressive (or important). Is it more of a utility mode (i.e. it's handy for recovery or engineering purposes to have a massive humanoid with arms around)? I will accept "because giant robots are freaking awesome" as an answer.

That's it for now, but I may come up with more. Thanks in advance!

Edited April 10, 2015 by Nekko Basara

[Seto Kaiba]

My wonderful wife got me a Bandai DX Koenig Monster for my (mumble mumble) birthday, [...]

Your wife got you a DX Konig Monster for your birthday? Darn right she's wonderful, you lucky bugger.

The cockpit:

Does the crew end up in the "head" section in destroid mode? (I am following the Manual in calling the humanoid mode "destroid," although I really want to use that term for the gerwalk because of its resemblance to the original Destroid Monster.) That would be strange for a variable aircraft, [...]

No, the cockpit sinks down into the torso and ends up under the head as it moves forward into the space the cockpit previously was in. (Per the description in Macross Chronicle.)

Also - and this is just my bad memory - did Canaria have two gunners, or did she control hers solo?

Canaria's VB-6 was customized with an EX-Gear cockpit system, permitting a single pilot of exceptional skill to operate the VB-6 on their own. (Per Macross Chronicle mechanic sheet Frontier SMS 06A.)

The armament:

Is the destroid mode capable of firing the railguns and, if so, how does it align them with a target, and how does it take the recoil? Also, can they be fired when they are bent forwards and "detached" from the backpack section, or only when all of those parts are connected?

According to Macross Chronicle, the Konig Monster CAN fire its railguns in Destroid mode, and handles posture control with the engines in the legs. How exactly it aims is not explained, though I have a mental picture of it taking a knee and leaning forward.

Is the destroid mode capable of reversing the arms and using the missile launchers? Likewise, can the gerwalk mode employ the "hands?"

The mechanic sheet for the movie version of the Konig Monster mentions that the missile launchers in the arms are unavailable in Destroid mode. No word on if it can use the hands in Heavy GERWALK mode.

The modes:

What is the purpose of the destroid mode versus the gerwalk? It seems to interfere with at least some of the armament, and I suspect its agility isn't all that impressive (or important). Is it more of a utility mode (i.e. it's handy for recovery or engineering purposes to have a massive humanoid with arms around)? I will accept "because giant robots are freaking awesome" as an answer.

The Destroid mode is described in Macross Chronicle (the movie sheet again) as being "a form that mainly considers close-range combat", rather than the bombardment and bombing the other two modes are used for. The series mechanic sheet for same has corroborated the "it's for close combat" thing too.

So, on balance, looks like Destroid mode is for when the pilot wants to engage in fisticuffs on a nearly unprecedented scale.

[Nekko Basara]

Thank you very much, Seto. You prettymuch covered everything (as I expected you might)! All I'm really left wondering about is whether the railguns function when the barrels un-dock from the bank unit, which would let them tilt forward over the destroid a bit. But, judging by what you said about aiming those guns, this may just be an unknown.

As far as my wife goes, I am very lucky. I've wanted this beast since I first saw it on Collection DX five years ago (and I wanted there to be a toy since I first saw Frontier), but for reasons of budget and marital harmony, I do not collect valks as a rule. Since this was a "big" birthday and I've been building up a lot of husband points lately, I guess she decided to bend that rule .

[calubin_175]

Does anyone have any pics of the other Macross Quarters? I am referring to this one. http://i.imgur.com/lCULB.jpg I think in the novel this one could either be the Crazy Horse or the Enlightment.

[Seto Kaiba]

Does anyone have any pics of the other Macross Quarters? I am referring to this one. http://i.imgur.com/lCULB.jpg I think in the novel this one could either be the Crazy Horse or the Enlightment.

Depends, are you asking for screen captures from the movie, or other art?

I've only got a few publications that talk about the other Macross Quarter-type ships, and IIRC they all use the same pictures that are in the movie art book you've got there... just at different sizes.

[calubin_175]

CG lineart from the movies so I could see the coloring and markings.

[Giantman]

Hello all, I am a newbie, I have made some posts in the toy thread but not anywhere else yet. Like many others here in America who grew up in the 80's my introduction to Macross came through Robotech. I have recently acquired almost all Macross Shows, movies, etc.. This question, I am sure has been asked again and again, but this thread is veeeery long and I don't have time to sift through the almost 70 pages. I know that Macross is far superior to Robotech and I know the basic character differences and name changes from being around Anime fans and general nerdy stuff. My question is, if I want to dive into Macross do I need to re-watch the first 36 episodes? I am aware there are definite differences between the Americanized and highly edited Macross series and the fist 36 Super Dimension Fortress Macross episodes. So can I dive into Macross II or Macross Plus right away? Sorry for the Robotech questions as I know this is probably a hot button issue around here. Any info I can get would be very helpful, thanks for your time

[Mr March]

There's no harm in asking these questions here. This board is (mostly) over the more intense Macross vs. Robotech flame wars of ages past. Probably because both fan bases are so small now, no one really cares anymore

I'd think answering your question depends upon how you're approaching Macross. If you don't mind my saying, it sounds like you're an old school Robotech fan (or casual 80's kid kind of fan) that's decided to get into Macross in a big way. If that's the case, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to watch the 36 episode Super Dimension Fortress Macross series first, if for no other reason than to finally see the unedited original and understand the differences from the North American Robotech edit. The original SDF Macross is a much tighter, far clearer story all the way through than Robotech. The original SDF Macross includes many Macross-exclusive pieces of history and world building important to the rest of the Macross franchise. Perhaps you are worried about the time it would take to watch the series?

I was first exposed to Robotech as a child, left it behind and then was exposed to Macross Plus MANY years later as an adult in my early 20s. Personally, I found myself asking all kinds of questions about the Macross universe upon watching Macross Plus because I hadn't seen SDF Macross (SDFM), Do You Remember Love? (DYRL?) and Flashback 2012 (FB2012). Once I did see them, all the background and history of Macross Plus made a lot more sense. Now in all fairness, I adored Macross Plus before I watched SDFM, DYRL? and FB2012. But in my opinion, it's certainly a better, fuller experience to watch those four entires of the franchise in order.

Macross II is a parallel world not part of the rest of the Macross continuity. But I'd still recommend watching it only after you've seen SDFM, DYRL? and FB2012, since it takes place 80 years after the events of the original series.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Mr March

[frothymug]

...and note that Macross II is set after the DYRL movie.

Which brings us to another caveat that is difficult to understand: the movies are "retellings" of the series they are based on. Essentially, you must take everything as a broad interpretation of what really did happen at that time in the Macross universe. Subtle differences between movie and series elements are not really debated; they are just taken as "artistic expression" of things that actually happened.

Basically, everything is canon and nothing is canon. Now that I've confused you again, I'll just take my leave...

[JB0]

I'd think answering your question depends upon how you're approaching Macross. If you don't mind my saying, it sounds like you're an old school Robotech fan (or casual 80's kid kind of fan) that's decided to get into Macross in a big way. If that's the case, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to watch the 36 episode Super Dimension Fortress Macross series first

This.

The original TV series remains my favorite piece of the franchise, though I've largely cast aside my Robotech nostalgia at this point.

The biggest differences between Macross and Robotech come at the very end.

The bridge crew all lives, and the Macross is restored and refurbished at some point after the final battle.

More importantly, the "SDF-2"(known as the Megaroad in Macross) wasn't a battleship sent to negotiate a truce with the creators of the zentradi(who are, by all appearances, extinct). It was the first of many colony ships sent to spread humanity among the stars. This distinction has a major impact on the setting of Macross. Aside from Macross Zero, the sequels are set on colony ships or the alien worlds that humanity now calls home.

Each installment of the franchise is, mostly, a standalone story. The references to previous shows are generally in the form of homages. A previous show's musical talent being played on the oldies station in a future show, or the hero of one show doing something the hero in another show did in an iconic scene. That sort of thing.

But knowledge of the prior shows WILL increase your enjoyment of subsequent ones.

Particularly in the case of Macross Frontier, which is absolutely saturated with homages, up to and including remaking an entire episode of one series with the new cast.

The easiest way to explain the relationship between the TV series and the movie "Macross: Do You Remember, Love?" is that DYRL actually exists WITHIN the Macross universe.

In consideration of that piece of trivia, I watch it as though it is the Macross version of a WW2 movie. Most of the stuff they show actually happened in SOME form, but significant liberties have been taken by the scriptwriters.

Macross II is a sequel to DYRL here in the real world. It takes everything within the movie at face value.

But it doesn't exist at all within the world of Macross. Because that would just be silly.

[Giantman]

Thank you. I was already watching it anyway. I really find the dialogue difference striking and extra scenes and footage are quite obvious. Thanks for your input. By the way, the explanation of canon and not canon is definitely accurate in the star wars world as well with the disneyfication of the franchise, so I get the idea. Once again thanks for your help!

Edited April 14, 2015 by Giantman

[Mr March]

I'd always advise against using any analogy to western intellectual properties when trying to understand the Macross franchise continuity. For one, IP like Star Wars and Star Trek actually have official canon policies. Macross has NO canon policy, only a chronology (and the odd written declaration whenever some product doesn't fit into the official continuity, like the Master File books). Two, properties like Star Trek have writers that actually actively combine/reconcile all continuity from across films and TV series and generations. In contrast, Shoji Kawamori absolutely loves obfuscating the Macross continuity, recategorizing the continuity of the various Macross productions or outright contradicting what was previously said on the topic. While I don't believe anyone has asked him why, I suspect it's because Kawamori feels as a writer the stories can be the most free and fresh if the Macross universe is fluid and plyable from the perspective of the creative writers.

[vsim]

Hmm, these leads me to a question I have pondered from time to time. When introducing someone to Macross, should you start with Macross itself or Macross Zero?

[Mr March]

I feel Macross Zero is more for the fans than new viewers and IMO, it always did a half-assed job explaining the backstory of the Macross universe. I'd always recommend starting with SDF Macross, but if one can't get over the old animation and story, I'd say start them off with Macross Frontier. Frontier actually does a really good job summarizing the Macross universe and it's history.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Mr March