The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Gubaba]

I think there were discussions about Minmay and Yoshio before and the best conclusion was there is no indication of any relation. Yoshio is described as a "neighbourhood urchin", so he's likely just an ever-present mischievous child that everyone in town knows all too well

I'm not sure I'd call him an urchin... his parents are there in the shelter in Episode 2.

[Mr March]

Seto Kaiba

It's not like the Yoshio "character" was ever developed or granted anything more than passing production effort, so the character is open to almost any interpretation. I wouldn't be excited or disappointed with whatever story they gave him

Gubaba

Didn't know he had defined parents, but the way the little official describes him nas an urchin Yoshio could easily be "parented" by the neighbourhood. Which - if they are not related - may explain why Minmay seemed so familiar/close when interacting with the little snotter

[Gubaba]

Well... I always ASSUMED these were his parents...

[Mr March]

Yeah, that seems likely. The kid has to have parents. The show never gives the impression he's orphan Oliver. Just the local rascal that everyone has to look after.

[JB0]

Well... I always ASSUMED these were his parents...

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I think those are his robot custodian/bodyguards, and his parents died before the show started. He's probably the wealthy heir of some huge technology firm. Waynestarkco or something. He bought a Nyan-Nyan franchise basically on a whim, like that time Howard Hughes tried to buy Las Vegas.

Hey, we already said anything goes because he has no established story. You can't prove the company that built those Petite Cola machines didn't have anything more advanced.

[Mr March]

The Classic Middle America Backstory
Times have always been hard for Yoshio's family. An absent father left Yoshio to be raised by his mother with little opprtunity to make a living. On the farm - barely getting by - Yoshio's world is turned around when his mom sends him with his uncle and his wife overseas to South Ataria. A resentful Yoshio spends his rough youth without much direction until hope comes in the face of a beautiful singer named Minmay. If he can learn the hard lessons about being a man, Yoshio just might have what it takes to seize the promise of a good life living on the edge of this new frontier.

The Melodramatic Foreign Film Backstory
On the run since his parents were bystanders killed in a Yakuza war, Yoshio stows away on a boat bound an island far off the coast known to be the new land of opportunity. Scraping by on the streets of South Ataria, Yoshio meets a beautiful young girl with a million dollar voice and big dreams. It's Yoshio's chance to get off the streets and grow strong so that one day he can return to the mainland and avenge his parents murder.

The Quirky Indie Backstory
Life is a drag for young Yoshio living in the shadow of the new age. Nearly friendless with a work obsessed scientist mother and a father more in love with writing than with life, Yoshio figures things couldn't get much worse living in South Ataria. Until one day Yoshio is accidentally invited to a party where he meets a young lesbian girl named Minmay performing with her edgey band Crotch Kick, a band that may have a shot at stardom. Soon Yoshio is on a journey of self-discovery, sex, and learning that sometimes in a world that has no place for you, you have to make a place for yourself.

[VALKYRIE ACE PILOT]

Why was Roy´s Valkyrie the only one wearing the "Skull Squadron" markings in SDFM TV series?

Well, I suppose when you are a member of a specific squadron in this case Skull Squadron identified by the Jolly Roger mark, your valk should have it printed somewhere ,Roy´s way ...I know some VF-1A (cannon fodder) and some VF-1J valks belonged Skull Squadron even Hikaru's one, but Roy´s was the only one marked....I´m referring SDFM TV series, I know everyone in DYRL had their proper markings....

[No-Brand Hero]

What's the loiter time of the average Valkyrie? We know they use fusion reactors for power, but I don't recall ever seeing or hearing anything about how long they can fly around before refueling. So far as I know, a Valkyrie running out of fuel has never been addressed in any of the series either.

The only reference I see anywhere is on the Macross Wiki page for the VF-25 where it says when loaded with the Armor Pack it can expend its entire propellant load in two minutes of maximum thrust or fifteen minutes of dogfighting...however it's not clear if that means the Valkyrie itself or just the extra chemical rocket engines that are part of the Armor Pack.

In short: How long can a Valkyrie fly around?

[Gubaba]

In short: How long can a Valkyrie fly around?

As long as the plot requires them to.

[No-Brand Hero]

As long as the plot requires them to.

That's very Doylist of you

[Zinjo]

... like that time Howard Hughes tried to buy Las Vegas.

That would have worked if it weren't for those nosy kids and their damn dog!

Edited November 14, 2014 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

Why was Roy´s Valkyrie the only one wearing the "Skull Squadron" markings in SDFM TV series?

Well, I suppose when you are a member of a specific squadron in this case Skull Squadron identified by the Jolly Roger mark, your valk should have it printed somewhere ,Roy´s way ...I know some VF-1A (cannon fodder) and some VF-1J valks belonged Skull Squadron even Hikaru's one, but Roy´s was the only one marked....I´m referring SDFM TV series, I know everyone in DYRL had their proper markings....

Fighter colors were pretty fast an loose in SDFM with every hero character getting a custom color scheme. Roy got the insignia because he was the leader of the Skull Squadron.

[sketchley]

The only reference I see anywhere is on the Macross Wiki page for the VF-25 where it says when loaded with the Armor Pack it can expend its entire propellant load in two minutes of maximum thrust or fifteen minutes of dogfighting...however it's not clear if that means the Valkyrie itself or just the extra chemical rocket engines that are part of the Armor Pack.

That's just the pack - like the VF-1's FAST packs are limited to 150 seconds at maximum thrust.

In short: How long can a Valkyrie fly around?

In atmosphere: unlimited (up to the limit that the pilot can endure, that is).

In space: limited. Much longer than the aforementioned 150 seconds and 15 minutes, but no where near as long as when they're in atmosphere.

The only other endurance number that we have is how long the VF-1 can hover: 70 seconds at 13,000 kg x2 thrust, 420 seconds at 11,500 kg x2 thrust. All VFs that came later most likely have greater endurance, but nothing official has been published about it. So, refer to Gubaba's answer for the general endurance guideline.

[No-Brand Hero]

In atmosphere: unlimited (up to the limit that the pilot can endure, that is).

In space: limited. Much longer than the aforementioned 150 seconds and 15 minutes, but no where near as long as when they're in atmosphere.

The only other endurance number that we have is how long the VF-1 can hover: 70 seconds at 13,000 kg x2 thrust, 420 seconds at 11,500 kg x2 thrust. All VFs that came later most likely have greater endurance, but nothing official has been published about it. So, refer to Gubaba's answer for the general endurance guideline.

Yeah, that's more or less what I expected, I just figured that with there actually being stats for their thrust-to-weight ratios and everything, there might actually be loiter-time stats in some side material somewhere

The 70 second hover-time stat, of course, just highlights why they wouldn't want to add that much detail, though, since we clearly see the VF-1 hover more or less indefinitely at times (there's a bunch of them in GERWALK just hovering next to the Macross at the beginning of Burst Point, for instance).

Ah well, just a question that randomly occurred to me last night, and I figured this was the place to ask

[JB0]

Well, in fairness, flying in space is a very different situation than flying in an atmosphere, which makes it harder to give an operational time limit.

Your controlled flight time is going to be WILDLY different depending on if you're going in a straight line or maneuvering. You could run out of fuel just parked twenty feet off the ship's bow doing an infinite series of rolls with no forward thrust.

And when you run out of reaction mass, you don't stop flying. You just lose all control over that flight. The whims of gravity are far more fickle in space than on Earth.

That's honestly something that bugs me about Macross. Valks don't fly like spacecraft, they fly like airplanes. Heck, just showing the main engines unlit sometimes would go a long way towards making me happy(since constant thrust gets you constant acceleration, not constant speed).

I can accept the rest as Valk computers being programmed to make the atmospheric-to-space transition easy for the pilot. That actually makes a degree of sense, though it's an inefficient use of limited reaction mass.

[Mr March]

I'll admit that Macross has never been all that great at doing space flight justice, but I dare say the Macross animators at least tried to depict space flight more realistically than was generally done at the time, at least compared to our western popular culture. I feel Macross is more Firefly/Battlestar Galactica (2004) as opposed to Star Trek/Star Wars. I feel the most important distinction is that every Macross aerospace craft is designed for spaceflight; even the "naked" Valkyries are all built with vernier thrusters and reverse reaction thrusters visible on the finished designs. And of course the FAST/Super Packs are visibly obvious spaceflight systems. The Macross productions have also featured more than a little zero-g newtonian physics in the animations in all three modes and we've often seen reaction thrusters used in productions like DYRL and Macross Plus.

I think it's also important to note most of the Macross action in space is combat or travelling to some destination under a dramatic time limit. So the spacecraft are going to be using thrust most of the time to either survive a battle or beat the clock. I agree Macross could do better when depicting space flight, but to be fair, Macross hasn't exactly done atmospheric flight correctly either

[JB0]

Oh, I realize I'm being unfairly critical, but... it still bugs me.

[No-Brand Hero]

Heck, just showing the main engines unlit sometimes would go a long way towards making me happy(since constant thrust gets you constant acceleration, not constant speed).

I just checked, and the first battle sequence of DYRL actually does have a brief sequence showing the Valkyries flying with engines unlit, moving at speed from previous acceleration, and making attitude adjustments using nothing but vernier thrusters. I was pretty sure this was the case, because I can remember from the first time I saw the movie some twenty-odd years ago thinking "Hey! They're finally flying like spaceships!"

[Andras]

One awkward bit about most FAST pack boosters is the line of thrust is so much higher then the center of mass, the fighter would just go spinning tail over nose when the big boosters are fired up. VF-1s in particular. The fighter would have to be flying at a severe nose up angle to get the line of thrust through the center of mass.

[No-Brand Hero]

One awkward bit about most FAST pack boosters is the line of thrust is so much higher then the center of mass, the fighter would just go spinning tail over nose when the big boosters are fired up. VF-1s in particular. The fighter would have to be flying at a severe nose up angle to get the line of thrust through the center of mass.

They actually work for the original FAST Packs, as the main engines drop down into a bent position in Super-Valkyrie mode, thus creating a configuration where all four thrusters point towards a common center. Later episodes and series tend to go back and forth on how well it's represented, but in their very first appearance, it's pretty clear:

[JB0]

I just checked, and the first battle sequence of DYRL actually does have a brief sequence showing the Valkyries flying with engines unlit, moving at speed from previous acceleration, and making attitude adjustments using nothing but vernier thrusters. I was pretty sure this was the case, because I can remember from the first time I saw the movie some twenty-odd years ago thinking "Hey! They're finally flying like spaceships!"

Score one more for DYRL.

There's some crazy attention to detail in parts of that movie.

[skullmilitia]

Frontier started off showing the thrusters shooting, and then they just stopped bothering with it, accept for reused footage.
I remember seeing a website where the guy was trying to figure out what these "Circle handles" were, and how they were all over Macross

planes.... I remember face palming..

Apparently vernier thrusters aren't well known these days.

[Mr March]

Space travel is still too far removed from daily life for most audiences to understand, so popular culture has a way of presenting space flight inaccurately in TV and movies that does not educate the viewer. In a experience similar to yours, I recall some dork online once arguing the VF-11 Thunderbolt's 30mm gun pod was actually weaker than the VF-1 Valkyrie's gun because it was a smaller caliber than 55mm. This guys is debating ballistics and doesn't know about muzzle velocity

Still, there is so much information available about the valkyries of Macross I'm really surprised folks couldn't find out about a "vernier thruster" with a simple google search.

[Andras]

They actually work for the original FAST Packs, as the main engines drop down into a bent position in Super-Valkyrie mode, thus creating a configuration where all four thrusters point towards a common center. Later episodes and series tend to go back and forth on how well it's represented, but in their very first appearance, it's pretty clear:

If the rockets had the same power as the main thrusters, that would work. However, the booster rockets are supposed to be 5 times more powerful then the leg thrusters. (120 vs 23)

[JB0]

Aren't the FAST boosters also vectored? They could angle them so it's off-axis thrust to counter the rotation. Inefficient, sure, but in my mind the FAST packs were a retrofit anyways, so those limitations are understandable.

[No-Brand Hero]

Aren't the FAST boosters also vectored? They could angle them so it's off-axis thrust to counter the rotation. Inefficient, sure, but in my mind the FAST packs were a retrofit anyways, so those limitations are understandable.

They nozzles, at least, are usually drawn pointing slightly upwards, though that thrust difference is pretty crazy.http://macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1s-fastpack/schematic-vf1ssuper.gif

[JB0]

There you have it. Angled thrust solves all issues!

[mickyg]

Question about Frontier:

Do we see what Ozma was piloting when he first meets (and saves) Ranka? It's been that long ago that I watched the series, and what I do recall was a very short sequence showing a research vessel being crushed. I don't recall Ozma flying a fighter. But since he was there, I wondered of we saw what he was in, during that brief sequence.

[No-Brand Hero]

Question about Frontier:

Do we see what Ozma was piloting when he first meets (and saves) Ranka? It's been that long ago that I watched the series, and what I do recall was a very short sequence showing a research vessel being crushed. I don't recall Ozma flying a fighter. But since he was there, I wondered of we saw what he was in, during that brief sequence.

He's flying a VF-171 Nightmare Plus. There's a shot of it firing on a Vajra before it cuts into the cockpit to show Ozma. It's in the flashback sequences at the very start of episode 24

[McFly!!]

Question about Frontier:

Do we see what Ozma was piloting when he first meets (and saves) Ranka? It's been that long ago that I watched the series, and what I do recall was a very short sequence showing a research vessel being crushed. I don't recall Ozma flying a fighter. But since he was there, I wondered of we saw what he was in, during that brief sequence.

He's flying a VF-171 Nightmare Plus. There's a shot of it firing on a Vajra before it cuts into the cockpit to show Ozma. It's in the flashback sequences at the very start of episode 24

thanks! i was wondering about this as well! had to watch the episode again hahaha! i was kinda hoping that ozma was in a custom vf-22 or vf-19 at least...

[mickyg]

Thanks for that! I honestly had completely forgotten about that sequence but figured it had to be there.

Ozma VF-171 anyone?

[Saruta]

*nods* Though he does, IIRC, become the one to take over Nyan Nyan and turn it into an interstellar restaurant franchise...

Where is THAT stated?

I sort of assumed Kaifun inherited Nyan Nyan and did that. I never even noticed Yoshio much (he is the young boy who was with Minmay at the very start, right?). But to read/watch something in canon about who made Nyan Nyan into an intersellar franchise would be really exciting.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Saruta

[Gubaba]

Where is THAT stated?

I sort of assumed Kaifun inherited Nyan Nyan and did that. I never even noticed Yoshio much (he is the young boy who was with Minmay at the very start, right?). But to read/watch something in canon about who made Nyan Nyan into an intersellar franchise would be really exciting.

It's mentioned first in the liner notes to "Macross 7 Docking Festival," and then again in Macross Chronicle, among other places.

[No-Brand Hero]

thanks! i was wondering about this as well! had to watch the episode again hahaha! i was kinda hoping that ozma was in a custom vf-22 or vf-19 at least...

I'd blame the conservation of CG models for that, though the timeline matches up at least. The VF-171 entered service three years before the destruction of the 117th Research Fleet.

[Seto Kaiba]

Where is THAT stated?

I sort of assumed Kaifun inherited Nyan Nyan and did that. I never even noticed Yoshio much (he is the young boy who was with Minmay at the very start, right?). But to read/watch something in canon about who made Nyan Nyan into an intersellar franchise would be really exciting.

Macross Chronicle.

Edit: Sorry... I really shouldn't try to post from my phone while in the lab. It occurred to me this morning that I'd given you a vague and useless answer. The specific source is Macross Chronicle Worldguide 22A (same # in both editions) "Super Dimension Restaurant Nyan-Nyan". The sheet has a "Related Matter" section about the Yocchan's (Yoshio's) having grown up in the neighborhood around Nyan-Nyan before and after the first space war, become its manager, and grown it into an interstellar restaurant chain. It's a very bare-bones explanation, but there you have it.

As far as Kaifun goes, you'd think he would've eventually settled down and inherited his parents restaurant in the wake of being dumped by Minmay, but he stayed in the music biz and eventually moved to the Macross-11 colony fleet and became the manager of an unauthorized English-language Fire Bomber cover band... Fire Bomber American.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Seto Kaiba