VF-15 Banshee Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 1. Probably because that footage first appeared in FB2012 before being re-integrated with DYRL 2. AFAIK, FB2012 is meant to be something of a mini-sequel/farewell for both DYRL and the TV show. Or neither. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 1. Probably because that footage first appeared in FB2012 before being re-integrated with DYRL 2. AFAIK, FB2012 is meant to be something of a mini-sequel/farewell for both DYRL and the TV show. Or neither. IIRC, Flashback 2012 was originally conceived as the epilogue for the Macross TV series... though it's more an epilogue for both the way it was finished. Quote
Oskull Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Hi, thanks for the reply. I recall 1995 when had the chance to watch both movies in VHS format and as far as I knew the "concert" was missing in the original DYRL (you are right). Back in that time it was clear what happened: 1) DYRL was just a movie version of the TV series. There was no reason to be exactly the same as the TV series so it was at the end an amazing movie. With almost the very same basics: love, songs, battles and the same characters. 2) FB2012 was the answer to the most important question of that time: what happened to Minnmay, Misa and Hikaru? the answer was clear, they all together flew looking for new adventures and that was it (despite the fact that year 2012 was the same year ep # 36 happened and Minmay, Misa and Hikaru looked older like 05 to 10 mores years)....so FB2019 maybe? But when placing DYLR as a movie inside the macross universe portraided in 2031, everything falls apart. The main issue is that Minmay never sang those songs!!! OMG!!! the most important songs in the macross universe!!! and of course FB2012 is just a movie cilp for 2031 people. At the end, this is now part of this beatiful universe....thanks for all Mr. Shouji Kawamori (little bastard!) BR, Oskull. Quote
Beltane70 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 The main issue is that Minmay never sang those songs!!! OMG!!! the most important songs in the macross universe!!! and of course FB2012 is just a movie cilp for 2031 people. Not necessarily. Do You Remember Love? could still just be a Minmay song. All that having DYRL as movie within the Macross universe means is that the title song was just one of her regular songs instead of the one that saved humanity. Quote
Tochiro Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 But when placing DYLR as a movie inside the macross universe portraided in 2031, everything falls apart.... Rest easy then because, as Kawamori said over 15 years ago, ALL versions of Macross are 'fiction' within his universe. Everything is cannon and nothing is cannon. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=30317&st=0&p=760765&fromsearch=1entry760765 He also reiterated this opinion during a talkshow that the SpeakerPODcast Crew went to last year. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 1) DYRL was just a movie version of the TV series. There was no reason to be exactly the same as the TV series so it was at the end an amazing movie. With almost the very same basics: love, songs, battles and the same characters. Depends which version of the Macross universe you're talking about... and, on top of that, who you're asking. Kawamori himself is a bit airy-fairy about the whole affair, because he doesn't want to worry about anything more than the "broad strokes" of the past story when developing something new... so he doesn't end up hogtied by the established stories the way Gundam's UC timeline has been. He's also sometimes tried to cut a dash between the two versions of Space War 1 and said that the true version of events is actually somewhere in the middle... On the other hand, the Macross Chronicle encyclopedia and other print sources tend to be more definite about what happened, and when, why, and how. It's takes more of a "flexible continuity" approach that favors the series versions of any particular Macross title, but exhibits the now-typical pattern which Macross titles follow, where stuff from the movies ends up existing in the timeline anyway... but possibly not in the context that they appeared in the movie. (Like how the DYRL version of the VF-1 is supposed to be just later production blocks of the VF-1, or the way series and DYRL aethstics are sometimes seen side-by-side as in Macross 7's in-universe filming of the "Lynn Minmay Story", or Macross Frontier's Longest Birthday episode. Then you've got the DYRLverse to which Macross II: Lovers Again belongs... where the creators of that OVA and its prequels made their work into a continuity that was firmly defined (ala Gundam). That now stands as a "parallel world" continuity to Macross proper and has a fair amount said by its creators about precisely what the status of the stories that belong to it is. That version has DYRL's version of events as the more accurate of the two... 2) FB2012 was the answer to the most important question of that time: what happened to Minnmay, Misa and Hikaru? the answer was clear, they all together flew looking for new adventures and that was it (despite the fact that year 2012 was the same year ep # 36 happened and Minmay, Misa and Hikaru looked older like 05 to 10 mores years)....so FB2019 maybe? As far as the main Macross timeline goes, that could probably be written up as artistic license... since the animation quality was a lot higher than the series to which it was originally an epilogue. Either that or they're drawn older for symbolic purposes to show they've matured... I'm sure you could find as many explanations as they are people to ask. But when placing DYLR as a movie inside the macross universe portraided in 2031, everything falls apart. The main issue is that Minmay never sang those songs!!! OMG!!! the most important songs in the macross universe!!! and of course FB2012 is just a movie cilp for 2031 people. Not necessarily... you've got a fair few other Macross titles, like Macross 7, Macross 7 Trash, or Macross 30 that all seem to point to Minmay really having written/performed Do You Remember Love? before she disappeared in 2016. Of course, many of those also fall into that aforementioned "mixes series and movie aesthetics" the-truth-is-somewhere-in-between category mentioned above. (Like in the Macross 30 story, where Minmay, Hikaru, and Misa have their DYRL appearances but Kamjin is clearly series Kamjin instead...) Quote
Oskull Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Hi guys, thanks a lot for you replies. -Beltane70: inside that context yes. it could be yes or not. Whatever we want to believe. -Tochiro: as I told before, now there is no other way just to say thanks Mr. Kawamori. -Seto Kaiba: that's exactly my point. From Mr. Kawamori point of view now (or from several years ago) all may or may not be true in the context of macross universe, welcome to the matrix!. Of course you need a timeline to avoid falling into total chaos, otherwise we could assume that Hikaru, Misa and Lynn Minmay were always traveling and Macross Plus, Macross 7 and Macross F are just some animations they enjoy on tv... or just assume they never existed and they were only actors showing a specific point of view of an event that happened at any time or place that looks like the fall of the first alien ship in 1999. I just want to set my surprise into a context, it is a bit late since these are topics discussed since years ago by what I see.I am 36, and I am re-entering the Macross universe since 1995/1996 (probably) when I saw the VHS videos that I mentioned earlier. I have never seen Macross 7 and Macross F (series and movies) or played Macross PS2/PS3 RPGs before, I'm just an old fan of the first macross war who really liked and enjoyed the story of Macross at that time, how it started, how it ended... As usual, the love we had to this universe will lead us to get more used to those things and understand it in the way now it is this presented under this new concepts/ideas, open mind, and view it from a more general macro-level perpective, peharps it is better after all. Thanks, Oskull. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 -Seto Kaiba: that's exactly my point. From Mr. Kawamori point of view now (or from several years ago) all may or may not be true in the context of macross universe, welcome to the matrix!. Well... I'd say it's less a "may not be true" and more an Obi-Wan-style "certain point of view" thing. Of course you need a timeline to avoid falling into total chaos, otherwise we could assume that Hikaru, Misa and Lynn Minmay were always traveling and Macross Plus, Macross 7 and Macross F are just some animations they enjoy on tv... Irony of ironies, there's a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that suggests that Macross II: Lovers Again may be EXACTLY THAT to the main Macross timeline. The girl who performs "Banana Moon of Love" in the first episode of Macross II (or someone who has the same appearance) shows up a few times, and almost every non-Fire Bomber song in the series is pinched from Macross II. The consistency of it makes you wonder if, from an in-universe standpoint, Macross II: Lovers Again is a hit movie or TV series. I have never seen Macross 7 and Macross F (series and movies) or played Macross PS2/PS3 RPGs before, I'm just an old fan of the first macross war who really liked and enjoyed the story of Macross at that time, how it started, how it ended... You got a lot of catching up to do... Quote
VF5SS Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 http://www.macrossworld.com/5921/macross-speakerpodcast-ep-11-the-hyogo-hammer-part-2/ I'd recommend listening to this part of the Macross Speaker Podcast so you can hear what Kawamori himself thinks instead of people's theories. Quote
Gubaba Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 http://www.macrossworld.com/5921/macross-speakerpodcast-ep-11-the-hyogo-hammer-part-2/ I'd recommend listening to this part of the Macross Speaker Podcast so you can hear what Kawamori himself thinks instead of people's theories. Maybe he's just "indifferent"... Quote
Gubaba Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 The consistency of it makes you wonder if, from an in-universe standpoint, Macross II: Lovers Again is a hit movie or TV series. I think you should either listen to Kawamori or read "Macross Chronicle" sometime... Both are official, and neither support your reading... Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) I think you should either listen to Kawamori or read "Macross Chronicle" sometime... Both are official, and neither support your reading... Actually, I've done both... you might have noted I'd only said that the consistency of it was enough to make you wonder. ... and you have to admit, the sheer volume of Macross II music that shows up in City-7, from the radio to live performances by pretty much every other musician in Macross 7, would be enough to make anyone noticing the connection wonder at the in-universe status of Macross II. Especially considering that II was a sequel to DYRL?, and DYRL? is a "movie-within-the-universe" that also makes an appearance in Macross 7. That is officially isn't doesn't do anything to diminish how bizarre it is. EDIT: Edited the first sentence for tone. It's been a long day, and it came off as rude in hindsight. My apologies. Edited February 21, 2014 by Seto Kaiba Quote
VF5SS Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 I don't think it's really bizarre that a series based around music would want to recoup their investment on a poorly received entry but re-purposing some of its assets. All that music was available (and less than a couple years old) and fully licensed for use by Big West, plus there was enough of it and enough variety to it that it worked as filler. Plus I think it's just a bit of in joke where all the people singing Macross II tunes are losing out to Fire Bomber. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Plus I think it's just a bit of in joke where all the people singing Macross II tunes are losing out to Fire Bomber. Really? My reaction would be the opposite... because the Macross II songs are portrayed as being extremely popular. Didn't that one singer Mylene met (Alice Holiday?) have one in her repertoire, and she's supposed to be a singer who always has her singles make the top 10? Whether the Jamming Birds are a "take that!"... well, that's another story. Quote
VF5SS Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 Alice Holiday sang her own song... that was in English. Quote
megaprime Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) I am new to Macross but I can see that unfortunately it is plagued by the same issues as Star Wars (I.e. canon and continuity issues ). Initially I thought Macrosswas about war and fighter planes but it seems like I have a LOT to learn. May I ask what films and books should I start to read that would ease me into the world of Macross? Edited February 23, 2014 by megaprime Quote
Gubaba Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 I am new to Macross but I can see that unfortunately it is plagued by the same issues as Star Wars (I.e. canon and continuity issues ). Initially I thought Macrosswas about war and fighter planes but it seems like I have a LOT to learn. May I ask what films and books should I start to read that would ease me into the world of Macross? I always recommend production order (since Zero, while technically first chronologically, isn't a very good introduction). Start with the original 1982 TV series, then "Do You Remember Love," then "Flashback 2012." After that, come back and tell us what you think! Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 I am new to Macross but I can see that unfortunately it is plagued by the same issues as Star Wars (I.e. canon and continuity issues ). Initially I thought Macrosswas about war and fighter planes but it seems like I have a LOT to learn. May I ask what films and books should I start to read that would ease me into the world of Macross? Nah, not s'much war and fighter planes as love stories set against a backdrop of interstellar war. My advice would be that, if you're not averse to 80's animation, start with the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross. If you'd prefer a more modern starting point, Macross Frontier is also extremely accessible to new fans and doesn't really require that you have foreknowledge of the previous stories. Quote
Cdr Fokker Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 If you'd prefer a more modern starting point, Macross Frontier is also extremely accessible to new fans and doesn't really require that you have foreknowledge of the previous stories. Yeah, but you'd miss out on a lot of references here and there. Not fundamental issues, just that you get a whole lot more from Frontier when you've seen everything else. If you were to watch Frontier first, IMO it would be worth re-watching after seeing the other series/OVAs to pick up on these references. Quote
Oskull Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Actually, I've done both... you might have noted I'd only said that the consistency of it was enough to make you wonder. ... and you have to admit, the sheer volume of Macross II music that shows up in City-7, from the radio to live performances by pretty much every other musician in Macross 7, would be enough to make anyone noticing the connection wonder at the in-universe status of Macross II. Especially considering that II was a sequel to DYRL?, and DYRL? is a "movie-within-the-universe" that also makes an appearance in Macross 7. That is officially isn't doesn't do anything to diminish how bizarre it is. EDIT: Edited the first sentence for tone. It's been a long day, and it came off as rude in hindsight. My apologies. Hi, perhaps a pretty basic question over here. DRYL? is a movie inside-the-macross-universe because it is stated that way in an official document or perphaps because Mr. Kawamori said it so, right? If that statement was so clear wit DYRL?, why do you think it´s not happening the same with macross II? specially having noticed that more of the product is included in Macross 7? BR, Oskull Quote
Gubaba Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Hi, perhaps a pretty basic question over here. DRYL? is a movie inside-the-macross-universe because it is stated that way in an official document or perphaps because Mr. Kawamori said it so, right? Kind of. Kawamori has always maintained that there is no real canon (as was explained before). Big West, however, when Macross Plus and 7 were released, announced (via the Timeline in the Macross 7 Trash manga, as well as the "Macross: A Future Chronicle" featurette on the first Macross Plus LD) that the TV series was the "real" story and DYRL was just an in-universe movie. Kawamori never seems to have gotten that particular memo, though. I'm not sure what you mean about Macross II, though. Big West has, since 1994, ALWAYS maintained that it's a "parallel story," from "Macross: A Future Chronicle" up through "Macross Chronicle" magazine. Edited February 23, 2014 by Gubaba Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 If that statement was so clear wit DYRL?, why do you think it´s not happening the same with macross II? specially having noticed that more of the product is included in Macross 7? 's probably because Big West made Macross II: Lovers Again without the involvement of Kawamori... though several other staffers from the original Macross series and DYRL? were involved. Quote
skullmilitia Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 It really works better if you just imagine the timeline is real, and all the events happened for the most part. However DYRL, Macross II, even SDFM, M7, M+ and no Frontier are just Movies produced as entertainment inside The true universe that encapsulates peoples from the Macross Universe. Pretend that somewhere in the multiverse, there's a real physical universe where the SDF-1 crashed on earth and a war started, humans and zentran became allies and left to form new colonies. These stories "SDFM, DYRL, M2, M+, M7 and Frontier are all Hollywood movies meant to tell a story but will include fictional elements To turn the drama up and personalize the specific important parts of Heros in the wars. That's the easiest way to understand Kawamori's approach. It's like Saving a Private Ryan Flags of our Fathers Letters to Iwojima Band of Brothers The Pacfic .. Are to World War 2. Quote
skullmilitia Posted February 23, 2014 Posted February 23, 2014 Also I just noticed the English version of M2's Music song direction was by Les Claypool! That's awesome! Quote
Gubaba Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Also I just noticed the English version of M2's Music song direction was by Les Claypool! That's awesome! It's not the same guy. From ANN Answerman, April 2002... check the last question: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2002-04-30 Quote
Andras Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Some pictures of an upcoming 1/72 Tornado model were posted to the MW Facebook. Are those missile ports in the leg armor packs? It looks like there are three in each. Quote
Mr March Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Official trivia for the Tornado Pack lists "Additional Micro-Missile pods for use in outer-space" in addition to the wing micro-missile pods but they don't specifically indicate where these "additional pods" are mounted. I suppose they could be the leg packs. Quote
Seto Kaiba Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 Official trivia for the Tornado Pack lists "Additional Micro-Missile pods for use in outer-space" in addition to the wing micro-missile pods but they don't specifically indicate where these "additional pods" are mounted. I suppose they could be the leg packs. Hm... I'm pretty sure the "additional micro-missile pods for use in outer space" are the drum-like things that hang down from the underside of where the wing glove was covered by armor. The bits closest to the beam cannon in that spread. They've got a paired fold-out hatch that reveals a bunch of micro-missiles. Quote
Mr March Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) Hm... I'm pretty sure the "additional micro-missile pods for use in outer space" are the drum-like things that hang down from the underside of where the wing glove was covered by armor. The bits closest to the beam cannon in that spread. They've got a paired fold-out hatch that reveals a bunch of micro-missiles. But those wing missile pods are mentioned in the trivia separately from the "additional micro-missile pods" already. So both pieces of trivia cannot (should not?) be referring to the same thing. But again, it's not specific enough either way. Edited February 27, 2014 by Mr March Quote
flobo Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 Currently rewatching 7 and just asked myself something for the first time. What is the deal with the place Basara and Ray live in ? It's not registrated as part of City 7 ? Is it outside the shel ?Why is the whole place half destroyed ? Quote
VF5SS Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 Akusho (or Acshio) is actually the same kind of living module as all the little ships that trail behind the Macross Frontier main Island 1. Apparently it was added to Macross 7 under some questionable circumstances and is not really taken care of by the city council. There's a bit of a play on words there because in Japanese "akusho" can mean either a bad place to be or a malignant tumor. Quote
Mr March Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) The pictures on my website do show the Akusho/Acshio section of the Macross 7. The main colored art I did depicts the Akusho/Acshio in red on the Port side of the ship: http://www.macross2.net/m3/macross7/newmacross/city7.gif Then I have some detailed black and white line art of the craft as well: http://www.macross2.net/m3/macross7/newmacross/city7-akusho.gif I've never actually been able to determine if the Akusho/Acshio is included with the defensive "shell" of City 7. Logic would suggest that as a after-thought addition to the City 7 spacecraft the Akusho/Acshio would NOT be included within the defensive shell. And it makes sense given the living conditions inside the thing. Ironically, I've also been unable to decide if the Akusho/Acshio is a clever way to rationalize why there would be a slum in a controlled artificial system like City 7 or just a really lame justification for a non-reclaimed urban environment to set Fire Bomber up as some struggling artists slumming it for real rock legitimacy Edited February 27, 2014 by Mr March Quote
flobo Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 Thanks for the quick answers . What bug me the most is the fact that only Basara and Ray seem to live there and seeing the conditions Inside the thing, it looks like their building could be destroyed any time. Quote
Mr March Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 I'd have to say that where Basara and Ray lives is by far the least annoying thing about their characters But more "seriously", the Akusho/Acshio could be interpreted as parody just because of the absurdity of the situation. The "uncompromising rebel" or "starving artist" are well known tropes that perhaps are being mocked via this setting in Macross 7. Quote
sketchley Posted February 28, 2014 Posted February 28, 2014 What bug me the most is the fact that only Basara and Ray seem to live there (...) Apparently, some of the other (musical) artists in the M7 fleet also live in there... Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.