The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[sketchley]

3. I'm given to understand he was President of the New UNG.

Correction: President of the Macross Frontier Fleet only.

FYI: the main leader of the (New) Unified Government is either the Chairman or the Prime Minister, pending the era.

[Murphy]

It makes alot of since now, I always thought that he had executive decisions over the Frontier Fleet, rather than everything eles because of what happened in VF-X2.

Incase you don't know macross VF-X2 is the PS 1 game I suggest u guys play it!

Edited May 28, 2013 by Murphy

[Gubaba]

It makes alot of since now, I always thought that he had executive decisions over the Frontier Fleet, rather than everything eles because of what happened in VF-X2.

There was an interview a while back that intimated that VF-X2 had nothing to do with the development of NUNS (or at least, that it wasn't a deciding factor): http://www.akiba-station.com/blog/?p=3308

Kawamori – It hasn’t reached a point where it’s like the modern day Euro. Each fleet has a currency and I would say that the denominations and currency rate are probably different.

Interviewer - Then are there rate changes and currency mergers?

Kawamori - There are. The reason why the old government became the New Unity Government is that constituency of the old government had become too spread out and the government could not unify them into one body. The civilians became too strong and nations started to fall apart. The old government started changing into the New Unity Government.

[Murphy]

I'm so confused! And I have booze hiccups that are not helping, so monetary factors are what caused the old government to fail and in that shadow the new government took its place.

Oh yeah thanks gubaba for the link!

Edit: ok I have no clue were my last satement came from, I think I just imagined it

Edited May 28, 2013 by Murphy

[Tochiro]

You can skip Episode 5. The rest are good.

Wait... what?? Episode 5 was AWESOME! Anecdotally, it's also our most listened to episode EVAR! It just has too much alcohol and too little Macross, that's all

Those flowers in Forbidden Elixir seem like a shout out to Robotech to me (and more importantly to afriend who i sa seasoned Robotech fan).

In a word, no. The staff at Satellite had not seen Robotech, and even if someone somehow got their hands on a copy it would have been raw and unsubtitled, hence unintelligible. Moreover, Big West is far more interested in how to keep the Macross machine going in Japan than in knowing about or keeping up to date with Robotech. If Tatsunoko had made Frontier your friends association might have had some merit. As things stand though, it's pure fantasy.

Richard Bilier was he bad or good? I know he wanted to connected the galaxy together through the fold quartz for good reasons, but it seemed he was allied with leon.

Does he have to be 'good' or 'bad'. The man had his own agenda and did what he needed to get close to achieving it. Moreover, he is a hardcore Minmay fan, meaning we can never know if he can be fully trusted.

[VF-15 Banshee]

OK now the Macross Compendium also says that Glass was President of the New UNG, specifically, "President of the New UNG and administrative director of the Macross Frontier fleet." Wherein does the error lie?

[azrael]

OK now the Macross Compendium also says that Glass was President of the New UNG, specifically, "President of the New UNG and administrative director of the Macross Frontier fleet." Wherein does the error lie?

Comes from this:

http://www.macrossf.com/movie/tv/character/chara10.html

Obviously we have more refined information now, but back in 2008 when the show just started...Eventually it will be cleaned up, along with the hundreds of other articles.

[Saruta]

I just got through a rather imperfect copy of DYRL. I guess I'm about 25 years late to the party, so questions belong in this thread... even unhappy questions. Because I guess they have been asked as many times as there are ships in a Zentradi fleet. And also because some of my confusion may be due to a bad translation.

What have they done to my favourite SDFM characters?!

Am I alone in thinking this version of Misa is completely off the rails? The real (oops I mean SDFM) Misa took the idea that she ight be one of the two last people on Earth with grim resolve. The movie one on the other hand... There are other cases too where I just thought "this is not the Misa I know".

Has Bodolzaa (yes he is a favourite character) really been turned into a traitor, reneging on his word on the whim of the moment? The peace appears to be with teh entire Bodolzaa fleet (or is it just the rather susect translation?) but then he just says fire on the Macross?

I really like the Bodolzaa of SDFM, in a way one likes a cinematic pirate or gangster while definitely not wanting to meet one in real life. Bodolzaa there is a firm commander with clear aims, and is also excellent at interrogation. None of this character seems to remain in th movie - or did I lose something here?

Why is the most interesting part, how Minmay actually convinced Bodolzaa to make peace, all offscreen? She got a heroic upgrade, compared to the series, in bringing peace single-handedly - and then they never show it? Just a couple of 2-3 minute sequences would not be to hard to animate - were they out of talented script writers?!

Why can Misa understand what the Protoculture computer is saying? She later used, apparently, frequency analysis to translate the lyrics. Good enough (for the rather soft kind of Sci-Fi that Macross is). But she did not have anything at hand for frequency analysis when talking to the computer.

What's happening with Max and Milia? I do like how they animated him admiring her beauty while she is in *macronized* form (while she admires Minmay's song... which she somehow hears despite her mecha being broken at the point?). I don't understand what happened to her after that. They were in an airlock of Macross? But if she was taken prisoner it's never shown? Or she somehow escaped - but then the Meltrandi got their backside kicked - did she even survive in this version? (If she didn't, poor Max).

And finally - did anyone (Mari Iijima or otherwise) ever sing and record the English lyrics for the DYRL song, as shown on screen?

Edited May 29, 2013 by Saruta

[sketchley]

Comes from this:

http://www.macrossf.com/movie/tv/character/chara10.html

Obviously we have more refined information now, but back in 2008 when the show just started...Eventually it will be cleaned up, along with the hundreds of other articles.

Thanks for the linky.

The line actually reads: "New Unified Government President".

As always, it's deliciously vague, but in light of other sources (that provide more info when it comes to the who's and what's), it's safe to say: "The New Unified Government aligned President of the Macross Frontier Fleet" or "the President of the New Unified Government in the Macross Frontier Fleet."

[hulagu]

Am I alone in thinking this version of Misa is completely off the rails? The real (oops I mean SDFM) Misa took the idea that she ight be one of the two last people on Earth with grim resolve. The movie one on the other hand... There are other cases too where I just thought "this is not the Misa I know".

Has Bodolzaa (yes he is a favourite character) really been turned into a traitor, reneging on his word on the whim of the moment? The peace appears to be with teh entire Bodolzaa fleet (or is it just the rather susect translation?) but then he just says fire on the Macross?

Bodolle Zer of the series was a xenophobic dinosaur terrified of cooties and new ideas and set out to exterminate what he doesn't understand.

Bodolle Zer of DYRL was a calculating bastard who saw the value of culture, but only as a potential weapon to use against the hated Meltrandi. When that weapon was at risk of falling into enemy hands he just wrote it off and ordered its destruction.

I really like the Bodolzaa of SDFM, in a way one likes a cinematic pirate or gangster while definitely not wanting to meet one in real life. Bodolzaa there is a firm commander with clear aims, and is also excellent at interrogation. None of this character seems to remain in th movie - or did I lose something here?

Why is the most interesting part, how Minmay actually convinced Bodolzaa to make peace, all offscreen? She got a heroic upgrade, compared to the series, in bringing peace single-handedly - and then they never show it? Just a couple of 2-3 minute sequences would not be to hard to animate - were they out of talented script writers?!

Why can Misa understand what the Protoculture computer is saying? She later used, apparently, frequency analysis to translate the lyrics. Good enough (for the rather soft kind of Sci-Fi that Macross is). But she did not have anything at hand for frequency analysis when talking to the computer.

What's happening with Max and Milia? I do like how they animated him admiring her beauty while she is in *macronized* form (while she admires Minmay's song... which she somehow hears despite her mecha being broken at the point?). I don't understand what happened to her after that. They were in an airlock of Macross? But if she was taken prisoner it's never shown? Or she somehow escaped - but then the Meltrandi got their backside kicked - did she even survive in this version? (If she didn't, poor Max).

Max vs Millia was in the airlock of the Meltran Gunship which promptly folded out, not the SDF-1. So technically Max was the one taken prisoner. And yes, they both survive and show up for the final battle piloting Queadlunn Raus, with Max in the blue Max custom.

And finally - did anyone (Mari Iijima or otherwise) ever sing and record the English lyrics for the DYRL song, as shown on screen?

There is an unofficial English cover of DYRL in one fandub version, which is actually pretty good. Edited May 30, 2013 by hulagu

[Pterobat]

I just got through a rather imperfect copy of DYRL. I guess I'm about 25 years late to the party, so questions belong in this thread... even unhappy questions. Because I guess they have been asked as many times as there are ships in a Zentradi fleet. And also because some of my confusion may be due to a bad translation.

What have they done to my favourite SDFM characters?!

I know the feeling. Don't worry: the film's not exactly hurting for fans.

I don't actually like Bodolza as a character, but I at least prefer him in an ambulatory humanoid form, because it means he had the potential to accept culture, but refused. As a living ship's engine, there's never a question of what he can take. I don't think there's anything badass about him, ever. He's a guy who clings to something he never chose, and refuses to admit the possibility of change.

I could talk your ear off about the portrayal of Zentradi in that film. I know DYRL has great objective merits, but I simply don't care about that enough to actually like the film.

Which means that I never got to the stage of analyzing the logic of the human characters' behaviour in that film. Though a little bit of illogic helps to keep characters more human.

[Saruta]

From the explanations I see here, it looks like all the stuff that could be REALLY interesting for me in DYRL is happening offscreen.

Lynn Minmay explaining to Bodolzaa how culture works and teaching Britai about jokes? Offscreen.

Max stuck in a Meltrandi ship with Milia and, presmably with her vouching for his skill, convincing Laplamiz to macronize him and give him a mecha? Offscreen. (Yes, the scene when he sees a Huge Beautiful Woman is awesome. But we only get a few seconds).

Misa being "not the Misa I knew", and a city rising out of nowhere only to be destroyed after a song lyric is found - lots of screen time.

I wonder - was the Minmay-Zentradi and Max-Meltrandi interaction - breaking the home planet, of not technically species, AND gender barriers at once - described in some supplementary material? Like novels or anything? I'd love to know more about THAT. Or did they leave it all for fans' wild imagination?

Also - what happened to the Meltlandi fleet? Was it destroyed, or did Britai turn on Bodolzaa and then they left the Meltrandi alone?

[azrael]

What have they done to my favourite SDFM characters?!

They've compressed everything you need to know about those characters and made it fit into a 2-hour format. Think of all the movies you've watched and how they crammed in as much as they could into a few hours. DYRL? is no different.

[Saruta]

Wel, thanks for the clarification on these ones also... Not sure I agree with that definition of "what I need to know" but that horse is apparently dead, buried, and decomposed. (And the movie retconned as an inworld movie).

Now yet a different question (sorry for bombarding this thread but it's better than bombarding with new topics).

I have seen, on various net places, Macross fans bashing Robotech's Minmei - apparently Robotech has changed her character to the worse. But the only differences I could find information about were (a) that Reba West is not even remotely up to Mari Iijima's singing standard (heartily agreed) and (b) that the Sentinels sequel plans had Minmei behaving in a much less mature way than the Macross path of FB2012 and assorted hints.

Is that all? Or were there Minmay character changes (outside of how she sings) in the Robotech dub of the Macross animation itself?

Edited May 30, 2013 by Saruta

[Pterobat]

Wel, thanks for the clarification on these ones also... Not sure I agree with that definition of "what I need to know" but that horse is apparently dead, buried, and decomposed. (And the movie retconned as an inworld movie).

Nah. A lot of the movie's changes in characterization and behaviour are not necessarily in service of a shorter plot, and even if they were, that doesn't mean you can't be repelled by them.

Like, in my case, DYRL portrayed Exsedol and Britai as much more cold and distant characters, which didn't mean anything for the plot but made them very unappealing.

Now yet a different question (sorry for bombarding this thread but it's better than bombarding with new topics).

I have seen, on various net places, Macross fans bashing Robotech's Minmei - apparently Robotech has changed her character to the worse. But the only differences I could find information about were (a) that Reba West is not even remotely up to Mari Iijima's singing standard (heartily agreed) and (b) that the Sentinels sequel plans had Minmei behaving in a much less mature way than the Macross path of FB2012 and assorted hints.

Is that all? Or were there Minmay character changes (outside of how she sings) in the Robotech dub of the Macross animation itself?

Actually, it's hard to put things like this into intellectual terms: you either "get it" or you don't. There probably are some lines changed in the dub that, intentionally or not, make Minmay look like a worse person than she originally was. And Reba West's speaking voice is pretty whiny, too, which might colour one's impression of her.

I've seen interviews with Carl Macekt that suggest he had a very cynical intepretation of Minmay that might have influenced the scripting and voice direction for the Robotech dub, but no one has come out and confirmed this direct connection.

But none of that means that everyone has the same reasons for disliking Minmay in the Robotech dub, or that everyone dislikes her in the same way. Hell, some people just don't like Minmay, period.

[Saruta]

Thanks! I googled and perhaps I found the interview you are referring to.

http://www.robotech.com/news/viewarticle.php?id=15

=

kurtkr Was it your intention for the Minmei character to be so annoying or did it just turn out that way?

Carl Macek says: It was always my belief that Minmei's immediate
popularity onboard the SDF-1 was a bitter pill to swallow. Therefore,
if her "talent" was marginal - but her "spirit" was high - it could show
that even misguided personalities like "Minmei" could have a positive
effect on people and dramatic situations. Melodrama is made up by
extremes - and Robotech was played as melodrama - remember these
characters are archetypes.

==

Yes, "misguided" does sound over the top about Minmay - especially as it apparently refers to her singing, not her relationship with Hikaru, where the original story (especially DYRL) makes her misguided indeed. These words sound like a retcon of Reba West's limitations into the character of Minmay.

I was initially surprised to find out that Minmay haters existed. Then I realized that it might have nothing to do with Misa and everything to do wth the type being something many of us have encountered. (In Frontier one could get to hate Sheryl on the same basis). So this question was really about the "Minmay fans who hate Minmei" as opposed to plain Minmay haters. But the interview reference clears things up enogh gor me not to need to wach all 36 Robotech versions (my list is long enough without that)

ADDED: also - is it known what happened to Ware, Rori, and Conda? I was told they were killed in the last episode, but now I realized that the Robotech fan told me this, and this episode diverges betwen Macross and Robotech.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Saruta

[VF-15 Banshee]

I need a good quote from Misa, something that captures her character.

[VF5SS]

"You chauvinist! You disobey my orders?!"

[Tochiro]

I need a good quote from Misa, something that captures her character.

I recommend the Macross Famous Quotes book that we discussed on the podcast:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4569810810

[Pterobat]

ADDED: also - is it known what happened to Ware, Rori, and Conda? I was told they were killed in the last episode, but now I realized that the Robotech fan told me this, and this

I'll PM you any Robotech stuff from now on, since the mods don't like us discussing it.

Well, the Macross 7 Docking Festival Album had liner notes that said Warera, Rori, and Konda had turned into bitter, burned-out alcoholics, and that Rori had married Vanessa but did not work. Needless to say, that was very horrible and not at all in keeping with the tone of the series.

Later, "Macross: The Musicalture", a Japanese musical, told an original Macross story, and one of the characters was Sonia Dosel, Rori's granddaughter. Presuming that a healthy, happy descendent means a better life, it might mean the horrid concept mentioned above was overwritten.

[Saruta]

Thanks!

A completely different question again (yeah..,) - what IS the size of the Macross, and does it differ between SDFM and DYRL?

It if is really just 1 km long, how can it house 50000 people in a low rise city? Or are people housed in blocks, with a low rise center built just for services like shops and restaurants?

Besides, it has loads of cars (not really a necessity on 1km in the absence of rain) and worse, the DYRL version even has a straight motorway-like road with heavy traffic? Is there any reason for that? (At first I thought it was uniusable in a city but if the city is strung along one main road it starts to make sense - what does not make sense is why they spent 3 days looking for Hikaru and Minmay but thatcan be written down to dramatic effect)

Edited June 1, 2013 by Saruta

[Tochiro]

I'll PM you any Robotech stuff from now on, since the mods don't like us discussing it.

Well, the Macross 7 Docking Festival Album had liner notes that said Warera, Rori, and Konda had turned into bitter, burned-out alcoholics, and that Rori had married Vanessa but did not work. Needless to say, that was very horrible and not at all in keeping with the tone of the series.

Later, "Macross: The Musicalture", a Japanese musical, told an original Macross story, and one of the characters was Sonia Dosel, Rori's granddaughter. Presuming that a healthy, happy descendent means a better life, it might mean the horrid concept mentioned above was overwritten.

Kudos @ Gubaba for pointing this out to everyone.

[Gubaba]

Thanks!

A completely different question again (yeah..,) - what IS the size of the Macross, and does it differ between SDFM and DYRL?

It if is really just 1 km long, how can it house 50000 people in a low rise city? Or are people housed in blocks, with a low rise center built just for services like shops and restaurants?

Besides, it has loads of cars (not really a necessity on 1km in the absence of rain) and worse, the DYRL version even has a straight motorway-like road with heavy traffic (completely unusable in a 1 km city). Is there any reason for that?

It's 1200 meters, in both versions. The city is housed in the center part of the ship and both legs. As for the layout, what you see in the show is the only information provided.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

hey guys,

another question for sketchley or if anyone with knowledge can help

i just posted this comment in post 124:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=39282&p=1051716

i posted this comment while noticing the nose of the arcadia 30th vf-1j valk is missing the nose intakes. (red dots)

and was wondering if there was any other instances with lasers coming out of the nose of the vf-1's? or if there's room for nose lasers to be official for the vf-1 specs or not.

Edited June 4, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[Gubaba]

hey guys,

another question for sketchley or if anyone with knowledge can help

i just posted this comment in post 124:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=39282&p=1051716

i posted this comment while noticing the nose of the arcadia 30th vf-1j valk is missing the nose intakes. (red dots)

and was wondering if there was any other instances with lasers coming out of the nose of the vf-1's? or if there's room for nose lasers to be official for the vf-1 specs or not.

It was an animation mistake. Valks don't have nose lasers.

[sketchley]

That would be one of the more infamous animation errors.

They are officially counter-verniers (or reverse rockets).

The VFMF: VF-1 book says that the counter-verniers are only on the early period VF-1. On later period VF-1, they are TACS (Tactical Airborne Camera System). (However, as the VFMF are self-proclaimed as being not part of the official setting...)

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

It was an animation mistake. Valks don't have nose lasers.

That would be one of the more infamous animation errors.

They are officially counter-verniers (or reverse rockets).

The VFMF: VF-1 book says that the counter-verniers are only on the early period VF-1. On later period VF-1, they are TACS (Tactical Airborne Camera System). (However, as the VFMF are self-proclaimed as being not part of the official setting...)

thanks for the quick turnaround, i heard they were an animation mistake from valkyrie addict. thanks. also if they were counter verniers, that wouldn't make sense if the vf-1 was first created to be used in earth atmosphere (prototype zero) which have the nose dots prior to being adapted for space??? (just going by layman's observation i don't know if the vf-1 was designed for space)

in the virgin road episode, what do you both think should've been used as precision lasers to hit the regults if the animations were corrected?

Edited June 4, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[Gubaba]

thanks for the quick turnaround, i heard they were an animation mistake from valkyrie addict. thanks. also if they were counter verniers, that wouldn't make sense if the vf-1 was first created to be used in earth atmosphere (prototype zero) which have the nose dots prior to being adapted for space??? (just going by layman's observation i don't know if the vf-1 was designed for space)

Yes, space was ALWAYS on the cards in VF development. After all, they were meant all along to escort the Macross.

in the virgin road episode, what do you both think should've been used as precision lasers to hit the regults if the animations were corrected?

I'm guessing the head lasers, but it's just a guess.

The storyboards would probably have the answer, but I don't think the storyboards for "Virgin Road" have ever been published.

[sketchley]

Another thing to consider is that the legs connect to the mid-point of those blisters. So, consider those counter-verniers as filling dead space in the leading edge of the aerodynamic cowling that covers the hip connectors.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

this is a followup question. were the reverse rockets seen on the main jet intakes in space an animation mistake also or is that considered official in the specs?

(my imaginary "canon" masterfile is the images burned in my head from the tv series, even all the animation mistakes)

[Mr March]

In the case of the VF-1, the thrusters on the nose are supposed to be reverse thrusters, so ORIGINALLY it was likely an animation mistake. However, I have noticed the tendency for the Macross Chronicle to add/explain instances like this either with blurbs for screen captures or within the body of a larger article. This is most likely done to embellish the story and fill up pages of the Chronicle with anything that "sounds" like insight or trivia into the show. So they may have labeled them as exhaust in spite of being intakes

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

this is a followup question. were the reverse rockets seen on the main jet intakes in space an animation mistake also or is that considered official in the specs?

(my imaginary "canon" masterfile is the images burned in my head from the tv series, even all the animation mistakes)

thanks, for the responses, just in case added a pic in case i mislabel the main intakes so this is an animation mistake also?

Edited June 4, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[Mr March]

Yeah, I remember the scenes well, LOL. Keep in mind that while thrust coming from intakes is technically incorrect, the point of the scene was to communicate to the audience that this sequence was set in space and that the Valkyries had zero-g maneuvering despite their mostly-built-for-atmosphere appearance. The spirit of what the scenes were meant to convey was more or less correct.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Yeah, I remember the scenes well, LOL. Keep in mind that while thrust coming from intakes is technically incorrect, the point of the scene was to communicate to the audience that this sequence was set in space and that the Valkyries had zero-g maneuvering despite their mostly-built-for-atmosphere appearance. The spirit of what the scenes were meant to convey was more or less correct.

thanks Mr. March, i say things in laymens terms and often confuse readers without knowing the proper names for the parts.

i thought they modified it for space and had the intakes retrofitted with reverse thrusters. (my childhood memories and thoughts are being debunked)

Edited June 5, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[sketchley]

The only time that the intakes for the main engines have been modified, is with the Super Part equipped VA-3C Kai - and the modification was the addition of propellant storage tanks in the intakes themselves. It only works as the parts are only for use in outer space, where the intakes aren't used.