RaisingCane Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Was there ever any indication as to why the ASS-1 crashed in the first place? Was it damaged in battle? Was it abandoned and left on autopilot or did the UN find the bodies of the crew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, RaisingCane said: Was there ever any indication as to why the ASS-1 crashed in the first place? Was it damaged in battle? Was it abandoned and left on autopilot or did the UN find the bodies of the crew? That was kind of covered in the first couple of episodes of the TV series: it was left behind as a booby trap by the Inspection Forces when they retreated from this part of the galaxy to slow down the pursuing Zentradi Forces. It was most likely abandoned and put on autopilot. However, Earthlings did find evidence of the crew, as they knew how large to make the VF-1 in Battroid to facilitate 'communication'. That evidence hasn't been described, but it is most likely such things as airlocks, crew facilities (beds, tables, chairs), and spacesuit remnants. Edited February 21, 2023 by sketchley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisingCane Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Did it crash deliberately then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, RaisingCane said: Did it crash deliberately then? In short, yes. It's fairly safe to say that the ship came down a lot harder than they intended—perhaps they intended to park it in orbit. But such things happen when one is plotting a course based on rudimentary scans from 10 light years away (and possibly millennia-old information if the Inspection Forces had access to the Protculture survey of Earth). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolt Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 One must wonder if there was any foreknowledge the target planet had intelligent life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisingCane Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Bolt said: One must wonder if there was any foreknowledge the target planet had intelligent life. And Protoculture descendants to boot. I wonder if they had any idea how much trouble it would cause the Zentradi if they fast-forwarded the development of such a civilization with OverTechnology. Edited February 21, 2023 by RaisingCane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 58 minutes ago, Bolt said: One must wonder if there was any foreknowledge the target planet had intelligent life. They probably didn’t care. It was a charted system on the map so it’s a viable destination (the equivalent of where this pin drops/where my finger drops on the map, is where this ship is going). As mentioned, it was a booby trap and, likely, a distraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pengbuzz Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, Bolt said: One must wonder if there was any foreknowledge the target planet had intelligent life. It was probably not a decision they pondered for a considerable amount of time; most likely, they did this as they were pulling out of the system and weren't too concerned with fine tuning the whole thing. Desperation can make one rush stuff in an emergency... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, sketchley said: The trajectory doesn't quite make sense (as visualized by Pengbuzz). A lot of the landmarks that it passed over are thousands of km apart, and if the ASS-1 was producing such a shock wave, it means that something on the order of 1/3 to 1/2 of the Earth would be catastrophically damaged. Considering some of the things its passage supposedly caused, that doesn't seem like an unreasonable proposition to me. This thing triggered volcanic eruptions, flattened a swath of Europe, and knocked a kilometer off Everest just by passing NEAR it. It's possible its irregular-ish course was a product of its engines still operating or something of that nature. 1 hour ago, RaisingCane said: Was there ever any indication as to why the ASS-1 crashed in the first place? Was it damaged in battle? Was it abandoned and left on autopilot or did the UN find the bodies of the crew? 1 hour ago, RaisingCane said: Did it crash deliberately then? As we're told in the original series, the ship was abandoned and booby trapped to help cover the retreat of the Supervision Army from our region of the galaxy. We know nothing about the crew's motives, but given that the likelihood of it emerging in the middle of a solar system vs. the vast swathes of empty nothing that make up most of the galaxy, it seems a safe bet they deliberately aimed it at a solar system to give the Boddole Zer main fleet a wild goose to chase on the assumption that it might be fleeing towards one of their bases instead of just jumping in the general direction of "away". Nothing is said about them finding anything of the crew itself, but there was enough leftover equipment and surviving internal architecture for the newly founded OTEC to come to a number of important conclusions from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Given the only other boobytrap in the original show was drifting in space, and wasn't there when they came back for it later, it seems likely the ASS-1 was never intended to "land". Just float around and look tempting to any passing zentradi, and if they don't take the bait, fold somewhere elso so they don't come back ready to disarm the trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisingCane Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) About factory satellites, on M3 it says: Quote It is assumed most satellites do not possess fold-devices, but some have been discovered to be fold capable. Aren't there like twenty-something of them in Earth-orbit alone during the time of M+? How'd so many get there without fold drives? Quote Typically, a Zentradi fleet would be supplied by a group of 20-50 Factory Satellites. Is it generally assumed that the ones captured by the NUNS were those left behind after the destruction of the Bodol fleet, or have they been picking fights with other Zentradi fleets just to get their factories? Edited February 26, 2023 by RaisingCane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolt Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 There are a few official instances of NUNS acquiring factory Satellites. And , as you've quoted, some have been fold capable. In addition, fold drives could have been installed after being captured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 1 hour ago, RaisingCane said: Aren't there like twenty-something of them in Earth-orbit alone during the time of M+? How'd so many get there without fold drives? Tow chains. No, seriously. Hear me out. Space folds can pick up other things in the vicinity, and that vicinity can be surprisingly large. A "tow truck" ship with an intentionally oversized fold drive specifically designed to pull up near another vessel and fold with it is well within the realm of plausibility. Even if it requires a "disposable" drive to make a huge-volume fold, like what happened when the Macross took off with an island, the destruction of a fold drive to secure a factory satellite seems like a good trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 13 hours ago, RaisingCane said: About factory satellites, on M3 it says: Aren't there like twenty-something of them in Earth-orbit alone during the time of M+? How'd so many get there without fold drives? Fold systems can be installed. Modular fold systems can be set up and removed as needed... the very principle behind the Fold Booster. Very large objects are typically folded by a network of small fold systems working in concert, much like how Sound Force attempted to steal Gepernich's spiritia farm using many fold boosters working in tandem. Since humanity is already mass producing fold systems for its ships, it's probably not much of a stretch to also produce fold systems to move factory satellites as needed. 13 hours ago, RaisingCane said: Is it generally assumed that the ones captured by the NUNS were those left behind after the destruction of the Bodol fleet, or have they been picking fights with other Zentradi fleets just to get their factories? It's generally assumed that most, if not all, of the factory satellites captured in the 2010s were Boddole Zer main fleet assets that the New UN Government learned the location of from defectors. Later in the timeline, humanity has stumbled upon others and appropriated them as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehPW Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Facebook Is this not the most accurate meme describing the transition from R... to M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pengbuzz Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 On 2/26/2023 at 2:04 PM, Seto Kaiba said: Fold systems can be installed. Modular fold systems can be set up and removed as needed... the very principle behind the Fold Booster. Very large objects are typically folded by a network of small fold systems working in concert, much like how Sound Force attempted to steal Gepernich's spiritia farm using many fold boosters working in tandem. Since humanity is already mass producing fold systems for its ships, it's probably not much of a stretch to also produce fold systems to move factory satellites as needed. Must be pretty popular in the laundries of UN Spacy, right next to the dryers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 20 hours ago, TehPW said: Facebook Is this not the most accurate meme describing the transition from R... to M? Plato's Allegory of the Cave? Eh... maybe back in the 90's, before the internet made fansubs and information about the Macross franchise readily available to people outside Japan. Nowadays, there's nobody keeping them in the cave. They know full well what's outside and voluntarily remain in the cave out of sheer bloody-minded stubbornness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pengbuzz Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 On 2/28/2023 at 7:23 PM, Seto Kaiba said: Plato's Allegory of the Cave? Eh... maybe back in the 90's, before the internet made fansubs and information about the Macross franchise readily available to people outside Japan. Nowadays, there's nobody keeping them in the cave. They know full well what's outside and voluntarily remain in the cave out of sheer bloody-minded stubbornness. Just need to do a "Cask of Amontillado" on the RT side of that cave.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Remix Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 So there's something I get confused by. iirc Gamlin was said to be raised by a Zentradi family in a Mars colony, which I assumed that a Zentradi family adopted him after his parents(?, I think that's what that's what the funeral from P*L*U*S was for) became no longer apart of the picture, and also explains his more militant (and loveably dense) personality. However I've seen some sources that say he's Zentradi as opposed to being a human, so I'm wondering if its just a mix up or simply an assumption from his backstory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 4 hours ago, TG Remix said: So there's something I get confused by. iirc Gamlin was said to be raised by a Zentradi family in a Mars colony, which I assumed that a Zentradi family adopted him after his parents(?, I think that's what that's what the funeral from P*L*U*S was for) became no longer apart of the picture, and also explains his more militant (and loveably dense) personality. However I've seen some sources that say he's Zentradi as opposed to being a human, so I'm wondering if its just a mix up or simply an assumption from his backstory. I am not sure where you got any of that. Gamlin was born on Mars. His personnel file, seen in Macross 7, lists his birthplace as "The Solar System #4 Planet Mars - H.G. Wells City". There's no mention of him having been adopted. His father died when he was young, and he's shown attending his father's funeral in the Macross 7 PLUS episode "TOP GAMRIN" (sic), but his mother is very much alive... she's the veiled woman he's standing next to in that scene. Her line art is clearly labeled "Gamlin's Mother". Given that he left Earth as part of the Macross 7 fleet when he was just twelve years old, she probably moved there and took him with her. He's a Human, not Zentradi or part-Zentradi. His blood type (AB) is not a Zentradi blood type, and his bio says he's of Japanese descent. Whether both of his parents are Japanese or only one is unclear, given that his surname is Japanese but his father's funeral was officiated by a Christian priest. (Christianity is a very small minority religion in Japan.) His upbringing was definitely heavily influenced by Japanese culture, given that he's noted to frequent Japanese restaurants in the fleet (inviting Mylene to one during one of the radio plays) and the gift he gives to Mylene when they meet for the first time due to Milia's attempts to arrange a marriage between them is traditional Japanese silk (tsumugi). Why he is so gung-ho about his military career is never stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Remix Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 On 3/28/2023 at 2:10 PM, Seto Kaiba said: I am not sure where you got any of that. Gamlin was born on Mars. His personnel file, seen in Macross 7, lists his birthplace as "The Solar System #4 Planet Mars - H.G. Wells City". There's no mention of him having been adopted. His father died when he was young, and he's shown attending his father's funeral in the Macross 7 PLUS episode "TOP GAMRIN" (sic), but his mother is very much alive... she's the veiled woman he's standing next to in that scene. Her line art is clearly labeled "Gamlin's Mother". Given that he left Earth as part of the Macross 7 fleet when he was just twelve years old, she probably moved there and took him with her. You know, that makes...Significantly more sense. I either remember hearing the Zentradi bit either from here or Macross wiki (Which currently calls him one despite having no mention of being taken in by Zentradi)....I should stop going there for any reason aside from pictures, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, TG Remix said: You know, that makes...Significantly more sense. I either remember hearing the Zentradi bit either from here or Macross wiki (Which currently calls him one despite having no mention of being taken in by Zentradi)....I should stop going there for any reason aside from pictures, lol. That would probably be wise, yes. I have no idea what goes on on that Fandom Wiki, but a lot of people seem to just put completely unsubstantiated fan theories there as if they were fact. This seems to happen a lot when characters have an unconventional appearance somehow, despite all evidence to the contrary. The closest Gamlin got to "raised by Zentradi" is having been a favored student of Milia's in the military academy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianP Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 So the question of "why is the Macross 29 fleet disliked" came up on another forum, which got me curious - *is* the Macross 29 fleet actually disliked, canonically? Given that there were only eight performances and no recordings made, there's precious little information to go on, and of the three places I've found in English discussing the actual thing, none of them really says anything about their relationships with other colonies. Macrosswiki and Gubabablog says "they're pacifist, and facing economic trouble", while Decultureshock says "without any form of military to boost its economy [Macross 29] has found itself slipping into a recession". This is in contrast with the usual interpretations and explanations I hear from Western fans who never saw the source: "They're in trouble because other people won't trade with them because they refuse to defend themselves". None of that is mentioned in the summaries made by people who were there. And the "other people won't trade with them or gives them bad deals" take rhymes very poorly with the resolution of the musical, which is "Macross 29 will establish itself as a cultural center by sending their Miss Macross winners on galactic tours and make money off the merchandise". It just sounds like they've had trouble finding something to actually sell abroad for cash to replace their military-industrial complex. So, is there anything in any of the side materials/unofficial books (Master File, etc) that suggests no one likes Macross 29, or is this a figment of the Western fandom where pacifists are considered stupid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 8 hours ago, SebastianP said: So the question of "why is the Macross 29 fleet disliked" came up on another forum, which got me curious - *is* the Macross 29 fleet actually disliked, canonically? Given that there were only eight performances and no recordings made, there's precious little information to go on, and of the three places I've found in English discussing the actual thing, none of them really says anything about their relationships with other colonies. Were any of those 3 my translation of the Macross Chronicle article, perchance? http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRgoods/08MacrossTheMusicalture.php 8 hours ago, SebastianP said: So, is there anything in any of the side materials/unofficial books (Master File, etc) that suggests no one likes Macross 29, or is this a figment of the Western fandom where pacifists are considered stupid? Aside from my aforementioned translation, the only other sources in English that I am aware of were by members of MW who posted their experiences on MW. As for the figment part, one thinks that perhaps those people only skim read the synopsis that were made available, and jumped to their own conclusions—it sounds like they've cherry-picked some of the "facts" and "in-universe opinions" of the setting materials... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 8 hours ago, SebastianP said: So the question of "why is the Macross 29 fleet disliked" came up on another forum, which got me curious - *is* the Macross 29 fleet actually disliked, canonically? Disliked? No. Macross 29's problem is not that they're disliked by their neighbors... their problem is that making total pacifism government policy made them doormats for their neighbors in trade negotiations. 8 hours ago, SebastianP said: Macrosswiki and Gubabablog says "they're pacifist, and facing economic trouble", while Decultureshock says "without any form of military to boost its economy [Macross 29] has found itself slipping into a recession". This is in contrast with the usual interpretations and explanations I hear from Western fans who never saw the source: "They're in trouble because other people won't trade with them because they refuse to defend themselves". None of that is mentioned in the summaries made by people who were there. So, as I understand it, your two summaries here each have a piece of the truth. The few printed materials for the musical - e.g. coverage in Chronicle, programs/booklets from the show, the old official website, etc. - do explain that the Macross 29 fleet made unarmed total pacifism into state policy and that the fleet is in economic trouble because of it. However, it is NOT because other fleets won't trade with them. Just the opposite, in fact. Because the Macross 29 fleet adopted a governmental policy of unarmed total pacifism - "the Full Relina", as it were - their aversion to conflict combined with an inability to both defend themselves and attack others with no defense force made them extremely easy to bully in trade negotiations. They have trade agreements with their neighbors, but those trade agreements are VERY unbalanced and that trade imbalance is a large part of what's ruining the fleet's economy. (The fleet's emigrant ship did also sustain some damage in some kind of gravitational wave event before the story's start too, which isn't helping by damaging the living areas of the ship AND forcing energy conservation measures which prevent the fleet from interacting with all but its nearest neighbors.) That's why the Neo Zentran movement-turned-political-party advocates rearmament. Not only is the defense industry and military a huge part of the economy in most emigrant fleets, the Macross 29 fleet wouldn't find itself forced in such disadvantageous negotiating positions if it abandoned total pacifism and rearmed. It doesn't have to become an aggressor state, it just has to not be the only guy in the Mexican standoff who forgot to bring a gun. 8 hours ago, SebastianP said: And the "other people won't trade with them or gives them bad deals" take rhymes very poorly with the resolution of the musical, which is "Macross 29 will establish itself as a cultural center by sending their Miss Macross winners on galactic tours and make money off the merchandise". It just sounds like they've had trouble finding something to actually sell abroad for cash to replace their military-industrial complex. The ending is more like that the fleet will refocus its economy from whatever the hell it was doing before to focus on cultural exports... something less dependent on trade in raw or refined materials, completed technology, etc. that also has broad appeal and aligns with the fleet's pacifist ideology. They've decided they will almost literally make love, not war... a more Macross ending you couldn't ask for. And it's not a bad plan either, really. The Macross Frontier fleet might be a tech industry powerhouse with a lot of interest in the defense sector, but it also makes a fair amount of money on cultural exports (music, movies, the arts) and it's implied that they also have something of a tourist industry with the fleet's Earth retro aesthetic. After all, top idols make STUPID amounts of money. Top idol Sheryl Nome literally charges an entire private army to her personal credit card at one point. Other forms of entertainment - like races - draw significant attention from major corporations as well. It's not like towns built around the entertainment industry aren't a thing in the real world either. Los Angeles, Anaheim, Bay Lake, Las Vegas, I could go on. As long as you can either develop the industry yourself or attract the industry to your town permanently, you've got a license to print money. 8 hours ago, SebastianP said: So, is there anything in any of the side materials/unofficial books (Master File, etc) that suggests no one likes Macross 29, or is this a figment of the Western fandom where pacifists are considered stupid? If I had to pick a word to describe it, I'd say they're oversimplifying it. They're not disliked... just kind of bullied in a way that is not at all unrealistic in real world international relations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 15 hours ago, SebastianP said: is this a figment of the Western fandom where pacifists are considered stupid? I mean, complete disarmament in a universe where alien armies in millions-strong fleets roam around operating under a policy of shoot first, shoot later, forget the questions... it does sound just a little stupid, no? The universe is a very dangerous place, and having some sort of defensive force "just in case" is kind of unambiguously a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pengbuzz Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 (edited) 22 hours ago, JB0 said: I mean, complete disarmament in a universe where alien armies in millions-strong fleets roam around operating under a policy of shoot first, shoot later, forget the questions... it does sound just a little stupid, no? The universe is a very dangerous place, and having some sort of defensive force "just in case" is kind of unambiguously a good idea. Agreed on all counts; just like you wouldn't go out into the woods or to climb a mountain unprepared, you don't go into space unprepared either. Now to the immediate topic proper: There is a big difference between being prepared for a fight and going out to pick one. In the case of SDFM, Hikaru originally was a pacifist, but ended up joining UN SPACY; while the series didn't go too much into detail about this (IIRC), I suspect it's because even he knew that when aliens are trying to kill you, laying down with a blindfold is a really bad idea. In M7, Nekki Basara is also a pacifist, but when absolutely necessary, he can fight (he's shown in a short fist fight in one episode, and uses missiles Ray loaded onto his VF-19 Kai in another). Pacifism isn't just one singular default mode: there's differing levels with people, organizations and such. IRL: I prefer to avoid situations and walk away from trouble, but I do know how to use my keys as an improvised melee weapon if needed, and I will fight to defend myself and my family should it become necessary. For someone to say "oh, you're not a pacifist, pacifists don't fight" would be inappropriate, as my preferred method of existence is avoiding conflict when and where possible. So with that said: pacifism isn't "stupid" as another poster asked about, and seeing such as "stupid" I would not consider a "western" anything. What I do consider stupid is the interstellar equivalent of walking right up to a grizzly bear and saying "excuse me, I'm a nice person: could you please not eat me"? That's what going out into space without any defenses will do to you. I also consider it really dumb to not stand up for yourself when others seek to take advantage of you: human nature will always tug on people to do that, no matter how noble they may try to be. And you're always going to have those who will heed to their own self interests rather than the "common good". What that requires to resolve is a deterrent; a means of enforcing consequences should someone seek to cause harm. It does NOT mean you must be the aggressor, but it does mean that in order to keep someone else from becoming said aggressor, you need a means of demonstrating the reasons why it would NOT be in their best interests to do so. Just because you're armed doesn't mean you MUST USE IT. I know not everyone may see it this way, but that's my stance on this. I'm a pacifist and refrain from fighting unless I absolutely must; I do not seek conflict, but I am ready should someone seek to cause deprivation or harm to me or my loved ones. And in the Macross 29 Fleet's case, financial harm is being done by those who are using their refusal to defend themselves against them. As the ancient saying goes: Si vis pacem, para bellum. "If you want peace, prepare for war." Edited May 3, 2023 by pengbuzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 On 5/2/2023 at 5:59 AM, JB0 said: I mean, complete disarmament in a universe where alien armies in millions-strong fleets roam around operating under a policy of shoot first, shoot later, forget the questions... it does sound just a little stupid, no? The universe is a very dangerous place, and having some sort of defensive force "just in case" is kind of unambiguously a good idea. It's definitely not the most strategically sound idea out there... However, given that the primary/default strategy that all emigrant fleets employ when it comes to encounters with the Zentradi is avoidance, it's less unsound than it sounds at first hearing. Even the best-armed emigrant fleets are not really equipped to go fighting anything much larger than a branch fleet. Defense policy generally revolves around the detection of enemy fleets before they can detect the emigrant fleet themselves, so the emigrant fleet can leg it before they end up in a fight they can't possibly win. Macross 29 is perfectly well-equipped to do that much. They're just up a creek without a paddle should the worst happen and they end up in a situation where they're unable to run away in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisingCane Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 I'd think that truly motivated pacifists with that level of technology could attempt innovating in other fields, like propulsion systems, passive defenses, and other non-destructive countermeasures. Putting all their eggs in those baskets might give them an edge over the other fleets in those areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianP Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 I think the out of universe explanation for Macross 29's attitude is that they had to come up with an in-universe explanation for why there were no space battles in their musical. Basically: "We want to put on a musical. But we can't do mecha battles in a musical unless we do the rubber suit thing, and that'd look bad. How do we explain that why there are no mecha in a Macross fleet so we don't have to show them?" and the explanation was "they don't have any, because they're pacifists". And from there we get malcontent zentraedi who think their warrior traditions are disrespected, an economy that's in the toilet because the largest single customer for locally manufactured goods has been disbanded, and a situation where singing can win the day. In universe, it depends on where they are relative to other fleets how terrible the idea was to do away with the military - on the strategic plane. It's still a terrible idea economically wherever they are, as seen in hindsight, but if they're coasting through mostly explored space that other fleets have already declared safe, then at least it's not suicidally stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 5 hours ago, SebastianP said: And from there we get malcontent zentraedi who think their warrior traditions are disrespected, an economy that's in the toilet because the largest single customer for locally manufactured goods has been disbanded, and a situation where singing can win the day. Well, not that first one... the "Neo Zentran" is a political movement made up of young Zentradi who were born and raised with Earth's culture who advocate for government reforms and rearmament of the Macross 29 fleet as a means to the end of correcting its economic death spiral. Their platform isn't a warrior ethos, it's all about leveling the playing field in trade negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownIsUp Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 So, is it known what kind of fleet composition the supervision army remnants have? ASS-1 was a gunboat, and if we follow Naval tradition it would stand to reason there's quite a lot more destructive ships they're capable of fielding. For that matter, is there any info on how many remnants there are of the supervision army if any at all by the 2060s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 1 hour ago, DownIsUp said: So, is it known what kind of fleet composition the supervision army remnants have? ASS-1 was a gunboat, and if we follow Naval tradition it would stand to reason there's quite a lot more destructive ships they're capable of fielding. Not in any explicit terms, no. In its heyday, the Supervision Army was an ad hoc force made up of the Protodeviln's spiritia-drained and brainwashed victims and whatever ships and equipment were available from captured facilities and enemy forces. Five hundred thousand years of dependence on captured factory satellites for their every need has probably seen what's left of them evolve into a force that's little different from the regular Zentradi forces in terms of their organization and equipment. They may have simply preserved some designs that were lost to the Zentradi and vice versa when it came to what factory satellites they were able to seize vs. destroy. 1 hour ago, DownIsUp said: For that matter, is there any info on how many remnants there are of the supervision army if any at all by the 2060s? Nope. Presumably they're still out there in force, given that Vrlitwhai and Exsedol note in the first episode of Super Dimension Fortress Macross that the Supervision Army withdrew from the region of space around Earth approximately 8 terms (40 years) before first contact... so in 1969. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajnrig Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 I swear it's been asked before, but did Studio Nue ever explain why they chose to go with "Delta" for Macross Delta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 24 minutes ago, kajnrig said: I swear it's been asked before, but did Studio Nue ever explain why they chose to go with "Delta" for Macross Delta? What I've read on the subject is that the Delta in the title was based on the letter Delta being triangular. Apparently it represents, or is evocative of, the three main aspects of the franchise as a whole: songs, wars, and love triangles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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