The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[RaisingCane]

I wonder if any of the English speakers in the UN got a vote on the designation of ASS-1.

Edited October 2, 2022 by RaisingCane

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, RaisingCane said:

I wonder if any of the English speakers in the UN got a vote on the designation of ASS-1.

Speaking as an engineer, and knowing what engineers are like, the English speakers are probably the reason it was saddled with that unfortunate acronym in-universe.  

[Master Dex]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Speaking as an engineer, and knowing what engineers are like, the English speakers are probably the reason it was saddled with that unfortunate acronym in-universe.  

It's true... a structural frame in something I once worked on got the official acronym WTF. I can't say much but the Program Office snickered a lot that they were able to get away with that. That said almost no one actually used the acronym in the end.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

It's true... a structural frame in something I once worked on got the official acronym WTF. I can't say much but the Program Office snickered a lot that they were able to get away with that. That said almost no one actually used the acronym in the end.

Fun story.  During development, the radio and climate control head unit in the DN101 Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable was called the "Central Friendly Interface".  It was changed after someone noticed they'd have to file the maintenance requirements under "CFI Care" in the shop manual.

I've seen (and shot down) a few at my present employer that were entirely accidental.  People abbreviated variable names to get them down to the Vector CAN 32 character limit and accidentally created some foul language in the process.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Fun story.  During development, the radio and climate control head unit in the DN101 Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable was called the "Central Friendly Interface".  It was changed after someone noticed they'd have to file the maintenance requirements under "CFI Care" in the shop manual.

I've seen (and shot down) a few at my present employer that were entirely accidental.  People abbreviated variable names to get them down to the Vector CAN 32 character limit and accidentally created some foul language in the process.

"CFI"? Forgive my ignorance, but I don't get it... O.o

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

"CFI"? Forgive my ignorance, but I don't get it... O.o

Say it out loud... it sounds like "See if I"... making the manual section "See if I Care".

[cheemingwan1234]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Speaking as an engineer, and knowing what engineers are like, the English speakers are probably the reason it was saddled with that unfortunate acronym in-universe.  

Umm  on the other hand, it's quite easy to remember and disguise what they are working on.

 

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Say it out loud... it sounds like "See if I"... making the manual section "See if I Care".

Ah, sorry! Sometimes I can be a little slow on the uptake here....

[cheemingwan1234]

On 9/29/2022 at 10:39 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

For the most part, it didn't.

Very few VF-1J's were manufacturered overall, and most materials to discuss the topic suggest almost all of them ended up out in space with the Macross during the First Space War.  The crew of the Macross's usage of the VF-1J as a machine for platoon leaders seems to have been either unique to the Macross or very limited in its application elsewhere due to the comparative scarcity of the VF-1J. 

Presumably the crew of the Macross (TV series) decided that giving the J type to platoon leaders would be the best use of what was advertised as an enhanced armaments type.

 

Not as such. 

Shinnakasu Heavy Industry developed the VF-1J as a domestically-produced rival/competitor to Northrom's VF-1A, not as a dedicated machine for platoon leaders.  Some sources like Master File assert their actual goal was to actually get the Earth Unification Forces to drop Northrom's A-type for the "better" J-type as the standard model.  Unfortunately, their total production capacity was low and very few VF-1J's had been delivered when the First Space War broke out.  Almost all of those units ended up out in space with the Macross, and the production facilities were destroyed in the orbital bombardment.

In the movie version, even fewer J-types were aboard the Macross and those were mostly assigned to special duty like deploying the Armored Pack.  (In some sources, this is said to be the result of a hardware/software compatibility issue, with the VF-1J being the only unit that had native support for the Armored Pack at the time.)

 

Probably not.  The VF-1 is physically quite strong, but it doesn't appear to be significantly stronger than a flesh-and-blood Zentradi giant.

Well, considering that (space) metal is harder than flesh, bone and blood and field motors go a long way....I think that a regular Zentraedi (not a CDR type Zentraedi) can be a victim of having a Mortal Kombat style fatality pulled onto him/her by a Variable Fighter.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Well, considering that (space) metal is harder than flesh, bone and blood and field motors go a long way....I think that a regular Zentraedi (not a CDR type Zentraedi) can be a victim of having a Mortal Kombat style fatality pulled onto him/her by a Variable Fighter.

Harder than miclone flesh and bone, sure... but the biochemical modifications that are done to make something like a 10m tall humanoid function make them extremely durable and able to not only survive but win at fisticuffs with something like a Valkyrie.

[pengbuzz]

2 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Harder than miclone flesh and bone, sure... but the biochemical modifications that are done to make something like a 10m tall humanoid function make them extremely durable and able to not only survive but win at fisticuffs with something like a Valkyrie.

Not to mention that being composed of trillions and trillions of more cells than a miclone, there are more cell walls to deal with that add to the overall durability of a Zentraedi soldier. Combine that with the increased durability and they are a considerable threat to a Battroid.

[cheemingwan1234]

9 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Not to mention that being composed of trillions and trillions of more cells than a miclone, there are more cell walls to deal with that add to the overall durability of a Zentraedi soldier. Combine that with the increased durability and they are a considerable threat to a Battroid.

Zentraedi are not plants, they don't have cell walls for overall support. Unless if the cell walls are also there during the marcloning process to help Zentraedi support their large mecha heights.

Edited October 4, 2022 by cheemingwan1234

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Zentraedi are not plants, they don't have cell walls for overall support. Unless if the cell walls are also there during the marcloning process to help Zentraedi support their large mecha heights.

I'm not talking about the cellulose cell wall that plants have, but the inherent cell wall (or membrane) all cells have to keep their innards in one place.

[Seto Kaiba]

24 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

I'm not talking about the cellulose cell wall that plants have, but the inherent cell wall (or membrane) all cells have to keep their innards in one place.

The term "cell wall" refers specifically to a rigid or semi-rigid structure surrounding a cell's outer membrane made of material like cellulose and pectin which is commonly found in plants but absent in animals.

The outer boundary of animal cells is the cell membrane, a flexible boundary typically made of phospholipids.

That distinction is why cheemingwan1234 was thrown by your post.  Cell walls are a feature not found in animals.

 

 

2 hours ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Unless if the cell walls are also there during the marcloning process to help Zentraedi support their large mecha heights.

The exact nature of the biochemical and anatomical changes that micloning systems make based on latent genes has not been elaborated upon.  However, the end result is a living being able to structurally withstand being 10m tall and bipedal, with strength and reflexes to suit and durability rivaling an armored combat robot.  As tough as they are (and as physiologically impossible as MK-style "fatalities" are), it is unlikely that a VF-1 could achieve such a needlessly gory feat.  Especially given that ghe Valkyrie's hands are notoriously fragile and not intended for that kind of close combat.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The term "cell wall" refers specifically to a rigid or semi-rigid structure surrounding a cell's outer membrane made of material like cellulose and pectin which is commonly found in plants but absent in animals.

The outer boundary of animal cells is the cell membrane, a flexible boundary typically made of phospholipids.

That distinction is why cheemingwan1234 was thrown by your post.  Cell walls are a feature not found in animals.

Ah, my mistake.

 

[cheemingwan1234]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The term "cell wall" refers specifically to a rigid or semi-rigid structure surrounding a cell's outer membrane made of material like cellulose and pectin which is commonly found in plants but absent in animals.

The outer boundary of animal cells is the cell membrane, a flexible boundary typically made of phospholipids.

That distinction is why cheemingwan1234 was thrown by your post.  Cell walls are a feature not found in animals.

 

 

The exact nature of the biochemical and anatomical changes that micloning systems make based on latent genes has not been elaborated upon.  However, the end result is a living being able to structurally withstand being 10m tall and bipedal, with strength and reflexes to suit and durability rivaling an armored combat robot.  As tough as they are (and as physiologically impossible as MK-style "fatalities" are), it is unlikely that a VF-1 could achieve such a needlessly gory feat.  Especially given that ghe Valkyrie's hands are notoriously fragile and not intended for that kind of close combat.

Well, if we also take into account other parts of a Variable Fighter's design...well, I'm pretty sure that a Valkyrie can ruin a marcloned Zentraedi's day in melee if the Zentraedi does not take into account the differences between a VF and marcloned OPFOR infantry. Especially since organic body parts don't take kindly to having  thermonuclear reaction turbine plasma fire off when the VF is kicking a Zentraedi in the torso or the head.

Put it kindly, while marclone Zentraedi and Valkyries are equal in strength in melee, the Valkyrie has more options for a nasty death to it's opponent in a brawl

Edited October 4, 2022 by cheemingwan1234

[JB0]

14 minutes ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Well, if we also take into account other parts of a Variable Fighter's design...well, I'm pretty sure that a Valkyrie can ruin a marcloned Zentraedi's day in melee if the Zentraedi does not take into account the differences between a VF and marcloned OPFOR infantry. Especially since organic body parts don't take kindly to having  thermonuclear reaction turbine plasma fire off when the VF is kicking a Zentraedi in the torso or the head.

Put it kindly, while marclone Zentraedi and Valkyries are equal in strength in melee, the Valkyrie has more options for a nasty death to it's opponent in a brawl

Putting it kindly, how much Macross have you watched? Because you're proposing scenarios that were demonstrated on-camera in the original SDF Macross, and weren't exactly silver bullets. Hikaru gave Britai a faceful of boot-thrust, and it did no lasting harm. 

[pengbuzz]

42 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Putting it kindly, how much Macross have you watched? Because you're proposing scenarios that were demonstrated on-camera in the original SDF Macross, and weren't exactly silver bullets. Hikaru gave Britai a faceful of boot-thrust, and it did no lasting harm. 

Like thus:

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by pengbuzz

[cheemingwan1234]

49 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Like thus:

 

Breetai's a Commander type Zentraedi. He's made of sterner stuff. A regular Zentraedi taking a boot trust to the face however.....let's just say they are going to have trouble identifying him or her once it is done.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Especially since organic body parts don't take kindly to having  thermonuclear reaction turbine plasma fire off when the VF is kicking a Zentraedi in the torso or the head.

The amount of plasma in a Valkyrie's exhaust in atmospheric operation is so small that this is not exactly something the Zentradi are at risk of.  Only a very small amount of fusion plasma is needed to flash-heat the intake air to the requisite temperature for safe thrust production.

(Available figures put the fuel consumption rate just south of 0.28ml/sec.)

In practical terms, the Zentradi are no more at risk of being burned alive by the VF-1's jet wash than you or I are in danger of spontaneously combusting standing downwind of the jet wash from a modern jetliner's turbofans.  Suitably braced, it could potentially throw a Zentradi backwards a bit as it did to Vrlitwhai, but equal and opposite reactions being what they are an unbraced Valkyrie would not be able to do that as the amount of thrust needed to move something as large as a Zentradi would push the Valkyrie away too.

[cheemingwan1234]

20 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The amount of plasma in a Valkyrie's exhaust in atmospheric operation is so small that this is not exactly something the Zentradi are at risk of.  Only a very small amount of fusion plasma is needed to flash-heat the intake air to the requisite temperature for safe thrust production.

(Available figures put the fuel consumption rate just south of 0.28ml/sec.)

In practical terms, the Zentradi are no more at risk of being burned alive by the VF-1's jet wash than you or I are in danger of spontaneously combusting standing downwind of the jet wash from a modern jetliner's turbofans.  Suitably braced, it could potentially throw a Zentradi backwards a bit as it did to Vrlitwhai, but equal and opposite reactions being what they are an unbraced Valkyrie would not be able to do that as the amount of thrust needed to move something as large as a Zentradi would push the Valkyrie away too.

Darn, guess that VFs and Zentraedi are pretty matched as well.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Breetai's a Commander type Zentraedi. He's made of sterner stuff. A regular Zentraedi taking a boot trust to the face however.....let's just say they are going to have trouble identifying him or her once it is done.

Do you have any video of "regular" Zentraedi being burned by jet blasts?

[cheemingwan1234]

32 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Do you have any video of "regular" Zentraedi being burned by jet blasts?

Considering that Breetai was able to shrug off a VF going kaboom point blank without armor whereas another subordinate further away from the kaboom in full armor was killed and survive being spaced for a limited period of time without a spacesuit, well a regular Zentraedi might be harmed by jet blasts from a VF.

And what's the logic of the Protoculture making their commander Zentraedi tougher that the 'regular' Zentraedi. What's the point if in a battle, when the commanders generally get personally involved it means that the battle is lost?

Edited October 4, 2022 by cheemingwan1234

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Considering that Breetai was able to shrug off a VF going kaboom whereas another subordinate further away was killed and survive being spaced for a limited period of time without a spacesuit, well a regular Zentraedi might be harmed by jet blasts from a VF.

Probably worth noting at this point that Zentradi body armor is made of the same stuff VF armor is... which has excellent heat resistance. 

 

2 minutes ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

And what's the logic of the Protoculture making their commander Zentraedi tougher that the 'regular' Zentraedi. What's the point if in a battle, when the commanders get personally involved it means that the battle is lost?

"Asskicking equals authority"?

Having a clear chain of command is very important for maintaining unit cohesion, especially across such a large force.  Making the unit commander harder to kill necessarily means the valuable resources that go into making them are less likely to be lost and the chain of command is less likely to be disrupted.  Not to mention the obvious advantages of having a commander who can literally wade in and knock heads together if the grunts get rowdy in order to remind everyone who's the boss.  Having a commander who refuses to stay down is probably pretty good for morale in a pinch too.

Of course, if humanity inherited the Protoculture's foibles as much as the series sometimes suggests, there may be a more mundane reason like "being tall makes you look more like a leader".

[pengbuzz]

*eats bag of Doritos*

[cheemingwan1234]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Probably worth noting at this point that Zentradi body armor is made of the same stuff VF armor is... which has excellent heat resistance. 

 

"Asskicking equals authority"?

Having a clear chain of command is very important for maintaining unit cohesion, especially across such a large force.  Making the unit commander harder to kill necessarily means the valuable resources that go into making them are less likely to be lost and the chain of command is less likely to be disrupted.  Not to mention the obvious advantages of having a commander who can literally wade in and knock heads together if the grunts get rowdy in order to remind everyone who's the boss.  Having a commander who refuses to stay down is probably pretty good for morale in a pinch too.

Of course, if humanity inherited the Protoculture's foibles as much as the series sometimes suggests, there may be a more mundane reason like "being tall makes you look more like a leader".

Okay, so how do Zentraedi replace leaders then? Do they have some sort of dueling system between commander type Zentraedi or just ring up a factory satellite to get a new leader?

[NightmarePlus]

1 hour ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Okay, so how do Zentraedi replace leaders then? Do they have some sort of dueling system between commander type Zentraedi or just ring up a factory satellite to get a new leader?

They get them from the cloning chambers in the Factory Satellites, same as all the other Zentraedi types.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Okay, so how do Zentraedi replace leaders then? Do they have some sort of dueling system between commander type Zentraedi or just ring up a factory satellite to get a new leader?

They order a new one from the SpaceMall cata-glaug in their seatback pocket, naturally. 😛 

Up to a certain level among the rank-and-file they just promote based on performance.  Past that point, where commanders are a separate class of Zentradi, they go get a replacement from one of the factory satellites that produces the clone soldiers for the fleet.

[azrael]

17 hours ago, JB0 said:

Putting it kindly, how much Macross have you watched?

☝️What he said...

[RaisingCane]

I always wondered why fist fights between Zentradi soldiers and Valkyries weren't more like a fist fight between a human and a Terminator.  Wouldn't mecha have a considerable strength advantage?

[cheemingwan1234]

50 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They order a new one from the SpaceMall cata-glaug in their seatback pocket, naturally. 😛 

Up to a certain level among the rank-and-file they just promote based on performance.  Past that point, where commanders are a separate class of Zentradi, they go get a replacement from one of the factory satellites that produces the clone soldiers for the fleet.

So, let me get this straight, there is a Commanders R'Us  factory satellite somewhere. Which gives me a mental image.

"Special delivery, one lieutenant for your main fleet'

Complete with a deliveryman wheeling in a replacement Zentraedi clone for some random Zentraedi main fleet.

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, RaisingCane said:

I always wondered why fist fights between Zentradi soldiers and Valkyries weren't more like a fist fight between a human and a Terminator.  Wouldn't mecha have a considerable strength advantage?

It might, or it might not.  Physics is a harsh mistress.

The statistically average Zentradi is 5x the physical dimensions of a 1.8m athletic Human male, with a proportionately greater mass (125x).  Their greater size doesn't diminish their speed relative to their size, so not only is the fist 125 times the mass it's moving 5 times faster.  About 625 times the total energy all other things being equal.  The Valkyire may have the advantage of e-motors over muscles and the rigidity of armor instead of skin and bones, but its responses are slower than the all-organic Zentradi and it also lacks flesh's ability to absorb and dissipate impacts more readily.  Consequently, the Valkyrie's moving parts are more likely to sustain damage punching something than the flesh-and-blood arm of an ordinary Zentradi soldier.  Especially the delicate articulations of the Battroid's fingers.  It's also going to be taking hits with enough energy to rival an armor-piercing cannon shell in the process.

Because Zentradi soldiers are nearly as durable as a Battroid to begin with and are wearing body armor to boot, the end result is something more like the Terminator on Terminator brawl from Judgement Day.  

A robot of comparable size and weight to a standard human would not be very durable at all.  Terminator's titular killer robots are not only made of super-advanced future tech that exceeds modern material strength, they're all WAY WAY heavier than a human to avoid compromising durability (~3x as heavy as Arnold was playing one).

A robot hand MADE for fisticuffs in Macross is a lot less humanlike... look at the Spartan destroid's.  A big, chunky, healy-armored claw rather than a nimble, dextrous, humanlike hand.

 

3 minutes ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

So, let me get this straight, there is a Commanders R'Us  factory satellite somewhere. Which gives me a mental image.

"Special delivery, one lieutenant for your main fleet'

Complete with a deliveryman wheeling in a replacement Zentraedi clone for some random Zentraedi main fleet.

They're probably made on the same satellites as the regular troops, just on a separate line, but yes.

It's not really any different, in principle, from modern militaries transferring in a new commanding officer to replace one who was lost on the battlefield.

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, RaisingCane said:

I always wondered why fist fights between Zentradi soldiers and Valkyries weren't more like a fist fight between a human and a Terminator.  Wouldn't mecha have a considerable strength advantage?

 

[pengbuzz]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It might, or it might not.  Physics is a harsh mistress.

The statistically average Zentradi is 5x the physical dimensions of a 1.8m athletic Human male, with a proportionately greater mass (125x).  Their greater size doesn't diminish their speed relative to their size, so not only is the fist 125 times the mass it's moving 5 times faster.  About 625 times the total energy all other things being equal.  The Valkyire may have the advantage of e-motors over muscles and the rigidity of armor instead of skin and bones, but its responses are slower than the all-organic Zentradi and it also lacks flesh's ability to absorb and dissipate impacts more readily.  Consequently, the Valkyrie's moving parts are more likely to sustain damage punching something than the flesh-and-blood arm of an ordinary Zentradi soldier.  Especially the delicate articulations of the Battroid's fingers.  It's also going to be taking hits with enough energy to rival an armor-piercing cannon shell in the process.

Because Zentradi soldiers are nearly as durable as a Battroid to begin with and are wearing body armor to boot, the end result is something more like the Terminator on Terminator brawl from Judgement Day.  

A robot of comparable size and weight to a standard human would not be very durable at all.  Terminator's titular killer robots are not only made of super-advanced future tech that exceeds modern material strength, they're all WAY WAY heavier than a human to avoid compromising durability (~3x as heavy as Arnold was playing one).

A robot hand MADE for fisticuffs in Macross is a lot less humanlike... look at the Spartan destroid's.  A big, chunky, healy-armored claw rather than a nimble, dextrous, humanlike hand.

 

They're probably made on the same satellites as the regular troops, just on a separate line, but yes.

It's not really any different, in principle, from modern militaries transferring in a new commanding officer to replace one who was lost on the battlefield.

Not to mention Battroids don't heal; 3 days after a fight, a Battroid hand will still need repairs if damaged.

[Invid99]

Don't know if this has been answered here, but was the Supervision Army just another Zentraedi clone faction? Were they giant humanoids like the Zentraedi or human size?