The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

No argument there; makes complete practical sense after yet another Zentradi attack on your biggest and most monumental city just happened. I'm just being a (recently-realized) Zentradi fanboy about it. Though on the more unbiased side, I believe Zentradi racism is one of those things that are mentioned here and there (Concerns with Nousjadeul-Ger's being used for target practice on Eden and a uncouth comment President Glass Howard made in Frontier iirc) but aren't one of the huge focuses either. 

There is a bit of racism on display towards the Zentradi among older folks, like what Guld experiences from General Gomez in Macross Plus.  Kind of understandable from those who lived through the aftermath of the First Space War and the hard years that followed given how traumatic that experience must've been.  Colonel Todo of the NUNS Special Forces VF-X unit "Havamal" is basically motivated entirely by the traumas of his youth incurred during that period to try and change history in Macross 30.  The younger folks in society don't seem to carry the same biases, though, so to them having Zentradi, Zolans, etc. living among humans is normal and nobody really bats an eye.  There's already no shortage of weird sh*t going on, so your neighbor being a ghastly pale seven footer's nothing to write home about in the grand scheme of things.

Mind you, given that the Zentradi are a persistent threat that is not going away anytime soon - or likely ever - using Zentradi mecha in training exercises is pretty justifiable.  That's the vast majority of what soldiers are likely to end up shooting at if an actual war breaks out, after all.

 

6 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

That, and with the Variable Glaug the UN or any other customer not above to use and widely adopt stolen designs from those mentioned as well. Though in that case it was made from a stolen VF-4, so it's pretty much a cycle...Like Gundam. 

That's been going on for ages... the first working production-intent VF, the SV-51, was made using stolen development data from the VF-0.  Some companies are only too happy to get a leg-up anyway they can.  Like Macross Galaxy arranging to have the YF-29 specs leaked to them by LAI and using that data to finish their VF-27.

[RedWolf]

Giant Zentradi on Earth was important in not only rebuilding society but the economy. For example Zentradi workers in Trad city was so important that Human civilians protested UN Forces taking equipment necessary for Miclone chambers. Tachyon Express started out a Queadluun delivery service.

Replacement of those workers likely went to the development of the Destroid Work, Workroid, and Battroid Work.

[TG Remix]

Continuing the topic of colonies or fleets that immediately cut ties with Earth, would it be possible for them to get new UN technologies, like the Macross 7 with their VF-19F's and VF-22S's, and the Frontier and Galaxy with the base plans for the YF-24 to make the Messiah and Lucifer respectively, or they have to settle with that they got since launching and go from there?

Edited May 29, 2022 by TG Remix

[Bolt]

It may depend on what you mean by " immediately cut ties" with Earth. I'm sure monkey models would be available to most fleets, that can afford it. The VF-25 is certainly for sale , in all it's glory. I'm not sure Galaxy wouldn't sell more than a redacted version of their 27, a la non cyborg models. Of course, no one is getting the VF-24, outside of Earth. 

[Master Dex]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

It may depend on what you mean by " immediately cut ties" with Earth. I'm sure monkey models would be available to most fleets, that can afford it. The VF-25 is certainly for sale , in all it's glory. I'm not sure Galaxy wouldn't sell more than a redacted version of their 27, a la non cyborg models. Of course, no one is getting the VF-24, outside of Earth. 

Well others can get A VF-24, but it will be a monkey model of the Earth version still.

And no one is getting a 27 cause one it was made illegally, and two it's host fleet collapsed from corporate conspiracy and an aircraft carrier to the face.

[Bolt]

Lol. Ya. But i wonder if those creepies from Galaxy are still lurking somewhere.

As far as colony fleets VF's. I still think the 171 is the best bang for their buck. 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Continuing the topic of colonies or fleets that immediately cut ties with Earth,  [...]

That's a very narrow topic, considering the only emigrant "fleets" we know of having done so were some renegade Zentradi who took off into deep space without any of the planning or preparation that normally goes into an emigrant fleet launch... and also without the flotilla of escorts and support ships necessary to sustain long-term operations in deep space.  For better or worse, they are almost certainly dead.  If not by their own hubris, then by the hands of their fellow Zentradi or New UN Forces pursuing them for their involvement in terrorist activities on Earth.

As far as we know, no actual emigrant fleet has ever cut ties with the New UN Government.  Emigrant fleets are big, resource-intensive, vulnerable things.  They're autonomous to a certain extent, but as emigration into deep space has expanded they've become economically and militarily dependent upon each other for survival.  An emigrant fleet attacked by a rogue Zentradi force is going to want to be able to call on other, nearby emigrant fleets for reinforcements rather than risk destruction.  Likewise, inter-fleet and interplanetary trade enables fleets to acquire things they couldn't independently produce.  Trying to cut ties with the New UN Government wouldn't be entirely synonymous with suicide... but on the list of dumb*ss stunts it'd rank pretty close to the top.

There's only been one "emigrant" planet mentioned to have seceded from the New UN Government, and that was Windermere IV.  They were New UN Government members in good standing for a bit over 30 years before things blew up (some literally) and they withdrew.  All they really did there was reject their membership in the New UN Government and went isolationist.  They kept their trade ties and diplomatic relations open.

 

2 hours ago, TG Remix said:

would it be possible for them to get new UN technologies, like the Macross 7 with their VF-19F's and VF-22S's, and the Frontier and Galaxy with the base plans for the YF-24 to make the Messiah and Lucifer respectively, or they have to settle with that they got since launching and go from there?

If they actually cut ties, they'd get nothing... because they'd have cut themselves off from the mandated technology-sharing policies of the New UN Government, as well as from all forms of trade with other governments.  Cultural and technological exports are handled mainly via the Galaxy Network - the space internet connecting all the New UN Government's fleets and planets - and severing trade agreements and treaties means other fleets don't have to honor your fiat currency, engage in trade of real goods with you, respect claims your government makes on resources, or treat your soldiers as prisoners of war in the event of a conflict.  You'd also be forfieting the New UN Government's protection in the event your fleet found a Bigger Threat or were attacked by another emigrant fleet.

This is why Windermere IV's departure from the New UN Government in 2060 was a rather halfhearted one at best.  While they rejected their membership in the New UN Government and its authority on their world specifically while withdrawing into self-imposed isolation, completely cutting ties with the New UN Government was completely unrealistic.  They had cut off travel unrelated to trade and banned cultural imports, but there was no way to completely suspend trade with the New UN Government's member nations because they were dependent on that trade to keep their economy going and for all kinds of essentials.  Windermere IV essentially jumped straight from a late medieval period civilization with absolute monarchies and knights dueling as mounted cavalry to a participant in a vast interstellar civilization in a single (30 year) lifetime.  They skipped huge chunks of normal development and as a result lack the advanced industries necessary to maintain a modern standard of living.  They were dependent on other New UN Government worlds for technology, medicine, weaponry, and the training to use it all.  Without interstellar trade, Windermere IV's economy would've collapsed, they would've been unable to maintain their standard of living, and that would likely have led to another round of civil unrest that might've seen the Kingdom of the Wind's royal family overthrown.  (You've no doubt seen in the news the havoc that a severance of even a majority of a nation's trade ties can cause in the nation losing the trade, with precipitous drops in currency valuation, nationwide supply shortages, and a near-total loss of access to information and new technology.)  The Kingdom of the Wind was able to last as long as it did by keeping trade open with its New UN Government neighbors, and legally purchasing the needed technology through corporations in the New UN Government sphere of influence.

[TG Remix]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's a very narrow topic, considering the only emigrant "fleets" we know of having done so were some renegade Zentradi who took off into deep space without any of the planning or preparation that normally goes into an emigrant fleet launch... and also without the flotilla of escorts and support ships necessary to sustain long-term operations in deep space.  For better or worse, they are almost certainly dead.  If not by their own hubris, then by the hands of their fellow Zentradi or New UN Forces pursuing them for their involvement in terrorist activities on Earth.

Oh, so they were less "official" fleets and more ragtag by comparison. Kinda misunderstood that and thought up of the Zentradi Macross 5 fleet instead, lol. I thought they were an explanation or an allusion the the unseen colonial ships with only Zentradi in them that Kawamori mentioned in the Otana Anime review. Though when I read "anti-Earth" I thought they were just against Earth's policies and rules (like no macronized Zentran) and not terrorists/rogue. 

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As far as we know, no actual emigrant fleet has ever cut ties with the New UN Government.  Emigrant fleets are big, resource-intensive, vulnerable things.  They're autonomous to a certain extent, but as emigration into deep space has expanded they've become economically and militarily dependent upon each other for survival.  An emigrant fleet attacked by a rogue Zentradi force is going to want to be able to call on other, nearby emigrant fleets for reinforcements rather than risk destruction.  Likewise, inter-fleet and interplanetary trade enables fleets to acquire things they couldn't independently produce.  Trying to cut ties with the New UN Government wouldn't be entirely synonymous with suicide... but on the list of dumb*ss stunts it'd rank pretty close to the top.

Okay, so that also contextualizes the more decentralized NUN in Frontier and Delta in a way. Basically cutting ties in such an extreme only hurts them in the long run, especially at a time when you're given much more autonomy then before. And since the Windemere's being mentioned I'm so glad I'm watching Delta again so I can follow this with more context.

[Seto Kaiba]

36 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Oh, so they were less "official" fleets and more ragtag by comparison. Kinda misunderstood that and thought up of the Zentradi Macross 5 fleet instead, lol. I thought they were an explanation or an allusion the the unseen colonial ships with only Zentradi in them that Kawamori mentioned in the Otana Anime review. Though when I read "anti-Earth" I thought they were just against Earth's policies and rules (like no macronized Zentran) and not terrorists/rogue. 

Ah, yes... it'd be far more accurate to contextualize that not as an actual emigrant fleet but as a bunch of Zentradi malcontents running as fast and as far as they could to avoid armed retribution after staging a terrorist attack on Macross City. 

They had good reason to run.  They attacked the capital of the New UN Government and got mercilessly thrashed by the Earth New UN Forces.  Zentradi New UN Forces ace Timothy Daldhanton was decorated for scoring an incredible fifty confirmed kills of rebel aircraft during that engagement.

 

36 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Okay, so that also contextualizes the more decentralized NUN in Frontier and Delta in a way. Basically cutting ties in such an extreme only hurts them in the long run, especially at a time when you're given much more autonomy then before. And since the Windemere's being mentioned I'm so glad I'm watching Delta again so I can follow this with more context.

It'd be a terribly foolish thing to do if anyone were insane enough to make the attempt.

Emigrant fleets and planets are dependent on each other for all manner of things, with the New UN Government acting as a sort of top-level mutual defense pact, trade agreement, and source of international law under which emigrant governments also formed smaller power blocs for mutual defense, trade, etc. to cover their own shortcomings and provide for the common good.  Going it alone means cutting off trade, being locked out of the loop on technological progress, and having nobody to call on for help should your fleet fall under attack, among other things.

When you hear mention of the "Brisingr Alliance" in Macross Delta, that's what they're talking about.  Because the twenty or so worlds of the Brisingr globular cluster are located fairly close to each other in galactic terms - separated by a few dozen to a few hundred light years at most - but also partly isolated from the rest of the galaxy by the sheer remoteness of the cluster itself on the far side of the galaxy from Earth, they banded together under a local defense pact and trade partnership to protect and stabilize their local economy and also provide defense against the Zentradi and other threats.  (One of the factors that contributed to Windermere IV's war of secession in 2060 was the Kingdom of the Wind being upset about having to send its troops to support its neighbors when there was an encounter with rogue Zentradi.)

[RedWolf]

According to Macross Chronicle the NUN does not have much influence with Remote Planets. Planets that are habitable but not fit for full colonization. Used for farming and mining. The colonists of these Planets oppose NUN interference. A hotbed for rebellion.

[Bolt]

Maybe so.🤔  But "not fit for full colonization " is a bit of a difference.

[Seto Kaiba]

59 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

According to Macross Chronicle the NUN does not have much influence with Remote Planets. Planets that are habitable but not fit for full colonization. Used for farming and mining. The colonists of these Planets oppose NUN interference. A hotbed for rebellion.

Not quite.

The Macross Chronicle World Guide sheet in question uses the term "remote planet" specifically to refer to planets on the fringes of their star's habitable zone.  Essentially, what it says is that because Class A habitable worlds (Earth-like planets) are so rare some emigrants have had to settle on worlds that are only marginally habitable.  Whether it's a result of extreme weather, hostile terrain, or the planet just being on the edge of the star's habitable zone, those worlds are less-than-lovely places to live and are only lightly inhabited by those who are there to exploit their resources.  They're mentioned to be used for things like mining, agriculture, and livestock farming.

It never says that the New UN Government lacks influence there.  What it does say is that the inhabitants of those worlds often have a bone to pick with the New UN Government because of the harsh conditions they live in, and that as a result those planets become hotbeds of anti-government sentiment and potentially breeding grounds for new terrorist organizations.

EDIT: One would imagine Uroboros is a pretty good example of that, given its excessive problems with piracy and the whole "planet of floating rocks" terrain making it problematic enough to get around that many people have privately owned VFs for the purpose.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Seto Kaiba

[TG Remix]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Macross Chronicle World Guide sheet in question uses the term "remote planet" specifically to refer to planets on the fringes of their star's habitable zone.  Essentially, what it says is that because Class A habitable worlds (Earth-like planets) are so rare some emigrants have had to settle on worlds that are only marginally habitable.  Whether it's a result of extreme weather, hostile terrain, or the planet just being on the edge of the star's habitable zone, those worlds are less-than-lovely places to live and are only lightly inhabited by those who are there to exploit their resources.  They're mentioned to be used for things like mining, agriculture, and livestock farming.

From what I gathered, if some fleets come across a planet that's not Class-A habitable planet the would at least try to modify the environment to their liking, like the Macross 4 did with Sephira from 30; like some kind of terraforming. Though it's not guarantee to go well, since Eden-3's colony had to be abandoned by the fleet that discovered it, but I got the impression, like you pretty much explained, they work with what they got.

Though it does make me wonder, if a emigrant fleet does come across a planet regardless of how habitable it is, would they plant all of their resources into it, or would they plant some and move on their way to other planets? IIRC the Megaroad-04 discovered Eden before voyaging to Windemere in 2060.

Edited May 30, 2022 by TG Remix

[pengbuzz]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

EDIT: One would imagine Uroboros is a pretty good example of that, given its excessive problems with piracy and the whole "planet of floating rocks" terrain making it problematic enough to get around that many people have privately owned VFs for the purpose.

*imagines family piling into a "VF Minivan" to go to the grocery store*

[RedWolf]

10 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

*imagines family piling into a "VF Minivan" to go to the grocery store*

Queadluun deliveries has been a thing post war. Tachyon Express grew that business enough it became a sponsor for VF races. 

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, TG Remix said:

From what I gathered, if some fleets come across a planet that's not Class-A habitable planet the would at least try to modify the environment to their liking, like the Macross 4 did with Sephira from 30; like some kind of terraforming. Though it's not guarantee to go well, since Eden-3's colony had to be abandoned by the fleet that discovered it, but I got the impression, like you pretty much explained, they work with what they got.

I'd presume it depends on how far from Class A the planet actually is.

Terraforming technology in Macross is pretty limited, with the only mentioned technologies being things the New UN Government deployed in Earth's postwar recovery plans like using designer bacteria to combat radioactive pollution and regulate atmospheric composition or building an orbital sun shade to mitigate global warming effects.  On their own, these won't do anything to combat that consequences and side effects of something like changing the oxygen content of the atmosphere (which could cause die-offs of flora or fauna) or causing sudden worldwide global cooling, so their reliability is probably pretty hit-and-miss.  It also won't do anything about discoveries like lethal infectious diseases (e.g. the ones on Zola that you have to be properly immunized against before visiting or you might die, as seen in Macross Dynamite 7), dangerous wildlife (like the dinosaurs on Pukirases IV or Lux), and the like, and could make other problems like severe weather worse.

Humanity are still very much blindly stumbling around the cosmos throwing science at the wall to see what sticks.

(Of course, there are probably also a lot fewer Class A planets than there used to be thanks to 500,000 years of the Zentradi and Supervision Army bombing the everloving hell out of each other.)

 

7 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Though it does make me wonder, if a emigrant fleet does come across a planet regardless of how habitable it is, would they plant all of their resources into it, or would they plant some and move on their way to other planets?

I'd expect it depends on how habitable the planet is and the particular circumstances of the emigrant fleet in question.

The newer, larger, emigrant ships are designed to operate for decades at a time while searching for habitable planets.  If their hand is forced by damage or some other factor, they might settle on a less-than-Class A planet simply to minimize the risk to their populace like how the Macross Frontier fleet saw the Vajra planet as a do-or-die situation after being so heavily damaged in their war with the Vajra that the ship's bioplant environmental system was beyond self-repair.  Macross 29 was noted to be in a rough patch itself thanks to damage it sustained from gravitational waves that would likely have made it VERY happy to find a habitable planet, esp. since its economy was collapsing.

We haven't seen a big enough sample of emigrant fleets to really get an idea of what behavior is the norm, though since those fleets each have their own local governments there may not actually be a norm since each fleet is making its own determinations.

We don't know how many emigrant fleets settled the Brisingr cluster, but with twenty or so inhabitable planets, many of which appearing to be Class A or close to it, some of those fleets may have split up their resources to settle multiple planets.

The ones we've seen seem to mostly keep going until they find one inhabitable planet and go all-in on that.  It's possible that marginally-habitable worlds may be tagged for future investigation either by that fleet and settled by volunteers or some kind of follow-on mission intended to settle worlds like that.

 

7 hours ago, TG Remix said:

IIRC the Megaroad-04 discovered Eden before voyaging to Windemere in 2060.

Eden was discovered and first settled by a short-distance emigrant fleet in November 2013, over a year before Megaroad-04 was launched.  (The year before Megaroad-02 and -03 were launched, in fact.)

 

4 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

*imagines family piling into a "VF Minivan" to go to the grocery store*

Entirely too many sidequests and at two or three main quests in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy involve someone in one of the arcology-cities on Uroboros asking Hunters Guild members to transport cargo from one city to another using their Valkyrie for some urgent purpose or other (often medicine).  On a planet largely lacking overland routes to connect cities in the three regions thanks to insane terrain like floating islands, dangerous "wild"life like the technorganic Dyaus and a Vajra hive, and other dangers like the gangs of bandits and renegade Zentradi that attack transports to steal supplies and so on (made more dangerous by clandestine assistance from a corrupt NUNS VF-X Special Forces unit), Valkyries became the only way to get around large portions of the planet safely. 

[pengbuzz]

33 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'd presume it depends on how far from Class A the planet actually is.

Terraforming technology in Macross is pretty limited, with the only mentioned technologies being things the New UN Government deployed in Earth's postwar recovery plans like using designer bacteria to combat radioactive pollution and regulate atmospheric composition or building an orbital sun shade to mitigate global warming effects.  On their own, these won't do anything to combat that consequences and side effects of something like changing the oxygen content of the atmosphere (which could cause die-offs of flora or fauna) or causing sudden worldwide global cooling, so their reliability is probably pretty hit-and-miss.  It also won't do anything about discoveries like lethal infectious diseases (e.g. the ones on Zola that you have to be properly immunized against before visiting or you might die, as seen in Macross Dynamite 7), dangerous wildlife (like the dinosaurs on Pukirases IV or Lux), and the like, and could make other problems like severe weather worse.

Humanity are still very much blindly stumbling around the cosmos throwing science at the wall to see what sticks.

(Of course, there are probably also a lot fewer Class A planets than there used to be thanks to 500,000 years of the Zentradi and Supervision Army bombing the everloving hell out of each other.)

 

It makes me wonder if the Protoculture had any terraforming tech?

[Seto Kaiba]

31 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

It makes me wonder if the Protoculture had any terraforming tech?

Very safe bet they did... though they seem to have taken a slightly different, more long-term view.  The official timeline mentions that Protoculture survey ships would stop on likely planets and reengineer the local life forms to ensure the emergence of a sub-Protoculture species that would prepare the planet for future colonization.

Earth was one planet that was manipulated in that way, though the survey ship that did it was never able to report on its activities due to being attacked and destroyed by an enemy flotilla on its return flight.

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Very safe bet they did... though they seem to have taken a slightly different, more long-term view.  The official timeline mentions that Protoculture survey ships would stop on likely planets and reengineer the local life forms to ensure the emergence of a sub-Protoculture species that would prepare the planet for future colonization.

Earth was one planet that was manipulated in that way, though the survey ship that did it was never able to report on its activities due to being attacked and destroyed by an enemy flotilla on its return flight.

On that note: did Macross Chronicle or any official source ever mention an origin/ homeworld for the Protoculture?

 

(WARNING: MOVIE SPOILER)

Spoiler

In Moonfall (2022 film), the ancestors of mankind built the Moon as a non-manned craft to explore for habitable planets for man to be reborn on (after their AI went haywire and killed everyone). Essentially, the Moon traveled to a proto-solar system and spun around an eddy of stellar gas within it to form the Earth, then settled into orbit around it and seeded the planet with man's DNA.

Protoculture reminded me of that; may be possible that the movie borrowed that idea from Macross.

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

8 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

On that note: did Macross Chronicle or any official source ever mention an origin/ homeworld for the Protoculture?

Nope.  Odds are if it was once a Class A habitable world, it's probably not one anymore thanks to the Zentradi and/or Supervision Army.

 

Spoiler

8 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

In Moonfall (2022 film), the ancestors of mankind built the Moon as a non-manned craft to explore for habitable planets for man to be reborn on (after their AI went haywire and killed everyone). Essentially, the Moon traveled to a proto-solar system and spun around an eddy of stellar gas within it to form the Earth, then settled into orbit around it and seeded the planet with man's DNA.

Reminds me of the plot of Phantasy Star Online 2's 4th episode... the whole schtick there being that the Theia impact hypothesis for the moon's formation is correct, and that what crashed into Earth was a defective copy of the living planet Xion the Photoners (that setting's abusive precursors) had made in an attempt to access the akashic records.  It eventually recovered from the crash enough to start steering the course of the planet's development...

Spoiler

... with a goal of producing that universe's version of humanity.  Its goal was to guide them into creating a means for it to reach into its home timeline and take revenge on the Photoners, little realizing karma had already long since caught up with them and seen them wiped out by their own renegade creations.  PSO2 being PSO2, the consciousness it had (dubbing itself "Mother") went crazy rampage nuts over being foiled and became an eldritch abomination before being put down.

 

[RedWolf]

In terms of changing the environment the only evidence we have of the Protoculture doing so is with their Ruins. The 4th Varauta Planet had something that halts entropy.  Which made the planet cold. The Varauta research expedition turned it off and awakened the Protodevlin. According to Macross Delta Protoculture ruins extend all the way to the planet's mantle and core. We saw the Ruins of Planet Rax rise up that prior to it there is volcanic activity.

[Seto Kaiba]

22 hours ago, RedWolf said:

In terms of changing the environment the only evidence we have of the Protoculture doing so is with their Ruins.

Not necessarily just the ruins... there's no natural explanation for the Yuria Archipelago on Uroboros having islands in the sky and various orphaned floating rocks, for instance.

Of course, we are also seeing the galaxy as it is approximately half a million years after the Protoculture's civilization was wiped out so it's moderately likely that quite a few of the allegedly natural Class A worlds weren't like that when the Protoculture originally found them.

 

22 hours ago, RedWolf said:

According to Macross Delta Protoculture ruins extend all the way to the planet's mantle and core. 

Not the ruined settlements, but the massive fold wave resonators hidden alongside them in fold space... 

[pengbuzz]

On 6/1/2022 at 12:04 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Not necessarily just the ruins... there's no natural explanation for the Yuria Archipelago on Uroboros having islands in the sky and various orphaned floating rocks, for instance.

Of course, we are also seeing the galaxy as it is approximately half a million years after the Protoculture's civilization was wiped out so it's moderately likely that quite a few of the allegedly natural Class A worlds weren't like that when the Protoculture originally found them.

So their terraforming was more on the order of ChiaPlanet™, right?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

So their terraforming was more on the order of ChiaPlanet™, right?

The Protoculture like hopping back and forth across the border of "Sufficiently Advanced", but humanity... yeah they're kinda just tossing algae and plankton at oceans and hoping for the best.

[pengbuzz]

59 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Protoculture like hopping back and forth across the border of "Sufficiently Advanced", but humanity... yeah they're kinda just tossing algae and plankton at oceans and hoping for the best.

More like they use it for a jump rope

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

More like they use it for a jump rope

Kinda, yeah, if you were to watch Macross in chronological order.

The Birdhuman in Macross Zero borders on indistinguishable from magic when it regenerates itself rapidly after activation.

They're talked about in totally mundane terms in SDF Macross and DYRL?.

Then in Macross 7 the Protodeviln are products of their technology whose abilities again veer heavily into indistinguishable from magic, between vampire-like feeding on people's mental energy, biological beam weapons, biological reactionless space flight without protective equipment, etc.

In Frontier, they're mundane scientists copycatting Vajra biology.

Then in Delta they veer back into indistinguishable from magic by hiding massive constructs in higher dimensions, buildings made of glowing rocks that respond to songs, and a dangerous forbidden ritual that could create a human hive mind.

[treatment]

8 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Kinda, yeah, if you were to watch Macross in chronological order.

The Birdhuman in Macross Zero borders on indistinguishable from magic when it regenerates itself rapidly after activation.

They're talked about in totally mundane terms in SDF Macross and DYRL?.

Then in Macross 7 the Protodeviln are products of their technology whose abilities again veer heavily into indistinguishable from magic, between vampire-like feeding on people's mental energy, biological beam weapons, biological reactionless space flight without protective equipment, etc.

In Frontier, they're mundane scientists copycatting Vajra biology.

Then in Delta they veer back into indistinguishable from magic by hiding massive constructs in higher dimensions, buildings made of glowing rocks that respond to songs, and a dangerous forbidden ritual that could create a human hive mind.

BigWest (or whoever's funding it) seriously needs to hire better writers and stuff for Macross.

So that the Macross Isekai Konosuba-style series could get started soon already!

 

 

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Kinda, yeah, if you were to watch Macross in chronological order.

The Birdhuman in Macross Zero borders on indistinguishable from magic when it regenerates itself rapidly after activation.

They're talked about in totally mundane terms in SDF Macross and DYRL?.

Then in Macross 7 the Protodeviln are products of their technology whose abilities again veer heavily into indistinguishable from magic, between vampire-like feeding on people's mental energy, biological beam weapons, biological reactionless space flight without protective equipment, etc.

In Frontier, they're mundane scientists copycatting Vajra biology.

Then in Delta they veer back into indistinguishable from magic by hiding massive constructs in higher dimensions, buildings made of glowing rocks that respond to songs, and a dangerous forbidden ritual that could create a human hive mind.

Well, a way that could be explained is that these were different scientific groups within the Protoculture, each focusing on different scientific fields of research and technologies. But all of them under the auspices of the Protoculture as a whole and whose work was utilized by their government/ society. That would explain much (like our own military/ scientific industry nowadays focusing on different disciplines).

[Master Dex]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Kinda, yeah, if you were to watch Macross in chronological order.

The Birdhuman in Macross Zero borders on indistinguishable from magic when it regenerates itself rapidly after activation.

They're talked about in totally mundane terms in SDF Macross and DYRL?.

Then in Macross 7 the Protodeviln are products of their technology whose abilities again veer heavily into indistinguishable from magic, between vampire-like feeding on people's mental energy, biological beam weapons, biological reactionless space flight without protective equipment, etc.

In Frontier, they're mundane scientists copycatting Vajra biology.

Then in Delta they veer back into indistinguishable from magic by hiding massive constructs in higher dimensions, buildings made of glowing rocks that respond to songs, and a dangerous forbidden ritual that could create a human hive mind.

 

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

Well, a way that could be explained is that these were different scientific groups within the Protoculture, each focusing on different scientific fields of research and technologies. But all of them under the auspices of the Protoculture as a whole and whose work was utilized by their government/ society. That would explain much (like our own military/ scientific industry nowadays focusing on different disciplines).

That actually is what I was thinking. We know for a fact the Protoculture were not exactly the most cohesive unit as far as a single civilization goes.. in fact all the problems in the galaxy are the direct result of them not being able to get along with each other. The Zentradi, the Fold Evils leading to the Protodeviln invasion, the setups to ensure later species didn't make their mistakes, attempts to psychically unify everyone into a hive mind to repair that discord.. it all tracks with them just not being one group of people but.. a bunch of people who just couldn't agree on basically anything.

[sketchley]

4 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Well, a way that could be explained is that these were different scientific groups within the Protoculture, each focusing on different scientific fields of research and technologies. But all of them under the auspices of the Protoculture as a whole and whose work was utilized by their government/ society. That would explain much (like our own military/ scientific industry nowadays focusing on different disciplines).

That is one way of interpreting it.

The other is as Kawamori-san himself describes Macross: what we are seeing are shows (etc.) made in-universe about historical events (from their perspective).  So, we end up with one group of producers painting the Protoculture as 'mundane', and another group painting them as 'magical'.  The truth is both somewhere in between, and something else entirely.

 

As I like Pengbuzz's suggestion so much, my personal view is 'all of the above'.

Edited June 3, 2022 by sketchley

[Seto Kaiba]

Mind you, watching Macross in chronological order is inadvisible... production order provides more consistency.

But, all in all, it's not like Protoculture society was monolithic either and we mostly see them through the lens of what they did to someone else... be it leaving the Birdhuman behind to destroy humanity if we didn't develop as planned, accidentally trapping energy beings in prototype bioweapons, or creating massive clone armies, so the inconsistency there that reflects their tech level is also partly influenced by what time in their history those things were created as well.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Mind you, watching Macross in chronological order is inadvisible... production order provides more consistency.

But, all in all, it's not like Protoculture society was monolithic either and we mostly see them through the lens of what they did to someone else... be it leaving the Birdhuman behind to destroy humanity if we didn't develop as planned, accidentally trapping energy beings in prototype bioweapons, or creating massive clone armies, so the inconsistency there that reflects their tech level is also partly influenced by what time in their history those things were created as well.

So in universe, it would be societal and political influences at those particular times as well, right?

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

So in universe, it would be societal and political influences at those particular times as well, right?

Or simply that we're looking at snapshots of what they could do at radically different points in their history.

Unlike many ancient precursors in fiction, they don't seem to have hit a technological plateau and stopped advancing even after their civilization started falling apart.  They kept building newer, more advanced, and more irresponsibly dangerous nonsense.

[RedWolf]

Thing is from the Protoculture first STL travel to their Prime that was some 400 to 500 years. Once the Protodevlin came into the picture it was nothing but a slow decline. They started out as separate colonies that united a central government. The Stellar Republic aka the Galactic Empire. They probably ran into difference in  culture and ideas of governing that clashed with each other. 

[sketchley]

2 hours ago, RedWolf said:

Once the Protodevlin came into the picture it was nothing but a rapid decline.

Fixed!