The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, diazou said:

During the SDFM chapters 27-36 timelapse, did the U.N. Spacy have human-built ships with space fold capability at its disposal or depended entirely on allied Zentradi warships?

Only a handful of Earth UN Forces warships survived the First Space War, as a result of being attached to either the UN Forces moon base or the L5 Manufacturing Station.  None of them were outfitted with fold systems at the time.  The ARMD-class had been designed to be fold-capable but the first eight or so ships of the class were completed before the fold systems meant for them could be delivered.  The SDF-2 was still incomplete and under construction on the moon when things went pear-shaped, though it too was designed with a fold system.  When construction resumed after the war, fold-capable ships were being built in large numbers to support the emigrant fleets.

So, for at least a year or so immediately following the First Space War's nominal end in 2010 the newly established New UN Forces were dependent on the hundred Zentradi ships sailing under their banner for interstellar capability.

(Not that fold capability was considered a priority for Earth's defense in that period, it was all about the emigrant fleets initially.)

[pengbuzz]

59 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Only a handful of Earth UN Forces warships survived the First Space War, as a result of being attached to either the UN Forces moon base or the L5 Manufacturing Station.  None of them were outfitted with fold systems at the time.  The ARMD-class had been designed to be fold-capable but the first eight or so ships of the class were completed before the fold systems meant for them could be delivered.  The SDF-2 was still incomplete and under construction on the moon when things went pear-shaped, though it too was designed with a fold system.  When construction resumed after the war, fold-capable ships were being built in large numbers to support the emigrant fleets.

So, for at least a year or so immediately following the First Space War's nominal end in 2010 the newly established New UN Forces were dependent on the hundred Zentradi ships sailing under their banner for interstellar capability.

(Not that fold capability was considered a priority for Earth's defense in that period, it was all about the emigrant fleets initially.)

I think this song sums it up quite well then, concerning folds:

 

[diazou]

5 hours ago, RedWolf said:

I don't think either the ARMD or Oberths were designed to have Fold Drives at the time. the SDF-2 certainly but it is still under construction on the Moon. The SDFN class had recycled Zentradi parts such as weapons.

The point of stealing the Factory Satelites was to increase their industrial capacity. To get the ball rolling for the Mankind Seeding Plan.

 

 

 

 

Thanks a lot

[diazou]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Only a handful of Earth UN Forces warships survived the First Space War, as a result of being attached to either the UN Forces moon base or the L5 Manufacturing Station.  None of them were outfitted with fold systems at the time.  The ARMD-class had been designed to be fold-capable but the first eight or so ships of the class were completed before the fold systems meant for them could be delivered.  The SDF-2 was still incomplete and under construction on the moon when things went pear-shaped, though it too was designed with a fold system.  When construction resumed after the war, fold-capable ships were being built in large numbers to support the emigrant fleets.

So, for at least a year or so immediately following the First Space War's nominal end in 2010 the newly established New UN Forces were dependent on the hundred Zentradi ships sailing under their banner for interstellar capability.

(Not that fold capability was considered a priority for Earth's defense in that period, it was all about the emigrant fleets initially.)

Thank you very much

[Seto Kaiba]

25 minutes ago, diazou said:

Thank you very much

It's usually assumed that ARMD-09 Minsk was the first postwar fold-capable ship.

[Bolt]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's usually assumed that ARMD-09 Minsk was the first postwar fold-capable ship.

Which fleet was that ARMD attached to?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Which fleet was that ARMD attached to?

Presumably the 1st Large Scale Long Distance Emigrant Fleet.

Originally, the Minsk and Haruna were going to be attached, physically, to the Macross-class SDF-2.

[sketchley]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Presumably the 1st Large Scale Long Distance Emigrant Fleet.

Originally, the Minsk and Haruna were going to be attached, physically, to the Macross-class SDF-2.

VFMF: VF-1 Valkyrie states that it (ARMD-9) and ARMD-10 (Haruna) departed in Aug. 2012 with a Megaroad class.

As the Macross Compendium* states that Megaroad 01 departed in Sep. 2012, and Megaroads 02 and 03 were in 2014, it's fairly safe to infer that those 2 ARMDs went with Megaroad 01.

 

* https://macross.anime.net/wiki/Megaroad_class

[RedWolf]

Wait there are two ships named Haruna? Max was assigned to one.

[Seto Kaiba]

20 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

Wait there are two ships named Haruna? Max was assigned to one.

It wouldn't be the only example of a duplicate name.

The first Haruna was ARMD-10.  If it left and was presumed lost with the Megaroad-01, they may have recycled the name.

There are also known to be two ships named for Bruno J. Global: a Macross-class SDFN and a Uraga-class escort battle carrier.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Seto Kaiba

[TG Remix]

So I remember talking about Zentradi technology not being standardized throughout every fleet, and that made me think of the Meltran ships In DYRL. In the movie they had to be different (along with the Queadluun-Rau's) so they could be visually different from the Zentran they were fighting against. But since a fleet of them also were in 7, I wonder how they'd fit in being apart of Golg Boddole Zer's fleet. Or, in a more reaching idea, if they were Supervision Army ships since DYRL's Alien StarShip were from the Meltran.

And on the topic of Zentradi ships, has there ever been official word or even estimation on how much mecha (battle pods and battle suits) each Zentradi ship can hold? Or even how much crew there is in them?

[sketchley]

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

So I remember talking about Zentradi technology not being standardized throughout every fleet, and that made me think of the Meltran ships In DYRL. In the movie they had to be different (along with the Queadluun-Rau's) so they could be visually different from the Zentran they were fighting against. But since a fleet of them also were in 7, I wonder how they'd fit in being apart of Golg Boddole Zer's fleet. Or, in a more reaching idea, if they were Supervision Army ships since DYRL's Alien StarShip were from the Meltran.

Those Meltran ships... on the one hand we have DYRL which was purportedly filmed 'in-universe' using Unified Forces ships (etc.) as stand-ins for the real thing (E.g. the Beginhill Training Ship being dressed up with holograms as the Bodolza Mobile Fortress).

Then we got M7 with a Meltran fleet using those ships.

On top of that we have VF-X2 using one class of those Zentradi ships as a (human?  Unified Forces?) transport ship, and other groups using Miria's gunship as... well, like how it was portrayed in DYRL.

 

It's a real headache to sort out.  The only guidance we have is from Kawamori-san himself:  "SDFM story, DYRL designs."

 

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

And on the topic of Zentradi ships, has there ever been official word or even estimation on how much mecha (battle pods and battle suits) each Zentradi ship can hold? Or even how much crew there is in them?

Officially?  "Many" for the mecha.  No such stats (if 'many' even counts) for the crew.

The production staff never got around to (or didn't even bother to) fill in those stats.

 

Unofficially, there are many sources, but your mileage varies.  Fanky's doujinshi "Ships of the Galaxy #3: Zentradi Fleet"* is arguably the most complete and has what you're looking for, but some other parts of their publication are dubious at best.

* http://www.cwo.zaq.ne.jp/bface700/16sum/gs03.html

Edited May 2, 2022 by sketchley

[RedWolf]

The Meltrandi are not the Supervision Army. Do note the Protoculture are not only made up of differing factions that use Zentradi as proxies in their wars but the Factory Satelllites has different manufacturers running them. 

The Supervision Army itself were originally the force guarding the Scientifically Advanced Planet where the Evil Series were made. And it turns out the Protodevlin also stole from the Protoculture that run the place a Factory Satellite that did not need robot ships to gather resources as it produces matter from Energy.

Edited May 2, 2022 by RedWolf

[TG Remix]

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

On top of that we have VF-X2 using one class of those Zentradi ships as a (human?  Unified Forces?) transport ship,

Okay so I wasn't going insane seeing the footage of Mission 3! No wonder they looked familiar. Though I don't know if it's because I enver got a good look at them without the screen moving, but it seems they were much smaller then their 3000m counterpart from the movie. Honestly most of the Meltradi ship designs could easily pass off as UN designs, not having the organic look of the other Zentradi ships.

Edited May 2, 2022 by TG Remix

[TG Remix]

1 hour ago, RedWolf said:

The Meltrandi are not the Supervision Army. Do note the Protoculture are not only made up of differing factions that use Zentradi as proxies in their wars but the Factory Satelllites has different manufacturers running them. 

The Supervision Army itself were originally the force guarding the Scientifically Advanced Planet where the Evil Series were made. And it turns out the Protodevlin also stole from the Protoculture that run the place a Factory Satellite that did not need robot ships to gather resources as it produces matter from Energy.

Right, I assumed so. Was more or less arguing if the designs themselves were potentially from there. But considering we know so little of them aside from their ties with the Protodevlin we can only assume otherwise.

[sketchley]

42 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Okay so I wasn't going insane seeing the footage of Mission 3! No wonder they looked familiar. Though I don't know if it's because I enver got a good look at them without the screen moving, but it seems they were much smaller then their 3000m counterpart from the movie. Honestly most of the Meltradi ship designs could easily pass off as UN designs, not having the organic look of the other Zentradi ships.

I was going to mention something about size in my post above, but I realized that Miria's Gunship isn't exactly to scale either (not shrunk as much, but scaled down nonetheless).

I'm not sure if those "Meltrandi" transports are shrunk down versions made after humans took control of a Factory Satellite, or just size-reduced due to the limits of the game itself (what I think is the reason behind the Miria's Ship's scaling).

 

I'm not sure what we can attribute to the differing visual design of the Meltran ships in DYRL.  On the one hand, they look closer to the human ships.  On the other hand, the Meltrans are described as being physically different (or having a different physiological make up) than the Zentrans.  For starters, the Meltrans (in DYRL) use fibre-optics in place of their nervous system—to the extent that some sources indicate that they're not so much 'piloting' their mecha as 'plugged into' their mecha.*  So it makes sense that they would look less 'biological' and more 'technological'.

* The info on that is a big vague.  My guess is that it was one of those things that was attempting to describe their enhanced reflexes, but wasn't thought out very well at the time—probably because the concepts weren't developed in the real world yet (E.g. William Gibson's Neruomancer was published in the same year DYRL was released, and The Matrix was still a decade-and-a-half away).

Edited May 2, 2022 by sketchley

[RedWolf]

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Right, I assumed so. Was more or less arguing if the designs themselves were potentially from there. But considering we know so little of them aside from their ties with the Protodevlin we can only assume otherwise.

We know at least the manufacturers of the Regult, Glaug and Nupetiet-Vergnitzs  took their inspiration from "Nature". The Regult and Glaug were based on the forms of the Vajra. While the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs was based on the form of Galactic Whales. Both are naturally Fold capable species. 

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, TG Remix said:

So I remember talking about Zentradi technology not being standardized throughout every fleet, and that made me think of the Meltran ships In DYRL. In the movie they had to be different (along with the Queadluun-Rau's) so they could be visually different from the Zentran they were fighting against. But since a fleet of them also were in 7, I wonder how they'd fit in being apart of Golg Boddole Zer's fleet. Or, in a more reaching idea, if they were Supervision Army ships since DYRL's Alien StarShip were from the Meltran.

Nah, they're not Supervision Army... but the more detailed and distinctive DYRL? designs have essentially retroactively replaced the SDFM TV versions throughout most sequels in the Macross franchise.  It's one of those things that's best not to think too hard about, because it's basically not explained AT ALL in most cases.

A plausible hypothetical would be that the less organic design aesthetic belonged to the faction opposed to the Stellar Republic during the Stellar Republic dissolution conflict and were simply rolled back into the regular Zentradi forces when both sides united against the surprise attack on both sides by the Protodeviln and their Supervision Army.

 

9 hours ago, TG Remix said:

And on the topic of Zentradi ships, has there ever been official word or even estimation on how much mecha (battle pods and battle suits) each Zentradi ship can hold? Or even how much crew there is in them?

If you work backwards from the published total population of the Boddole Zer main fleet and the number of ships in the SDFM TV series, you get an average crew size of 1,470.

That's probably slightly misleading, since a large percentage of the ships are very small 500m-class fleet radar picket ships and there's that massive mothership the size of Japan to account for, but it's a ballpark figure for the crew of an average-sized (~2km) Zentradi warship.

[RedWolf]

Thus still came from the episode Satan's Dolls where Exsedol lays down who the Protoculture were and the origins of the Zentradi. Warships designs are not organic Zentradi aesthetics. We never seen Meltrandi with these ships either. Given how long the the Zentradi has been chasing the Supervision Army around and the loss of Factory Satellites producing a particular armament either broken by age or outright destroyed in sabotage entire manufacturing lines are lost. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by RedWolf

[TG Remix]

23 hours ago, sketchley said:

I'm not sure if those "Meltrandi" transports are shrunk down versions made after humans took control of a Factory Satellite, or just size-reduced due to the limits of the game itself (what I think is the reason behind the Miria's Ship's scaling).

Yeah, probably for them to fit in the game as opposed to the giant fortresses you traverse through, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were micloned/UN versions of Meltradi ships, since more or less that seemed to be the case with a lot of acquired Zentradi mechanics anyways. Now that I say it, I notice Delta gave the designation ZBP-104 to the Regult. Would this be it's retroactive number given for UN like the VBP-1 for the Variable Glaug, or a new upgraded model (different from the one with Queadlunn Rau arms and missiles)?

22 hours ago, sketchley said:

For starters, the Meltrans (in DYRL) use fibre-optics in place of their nervous system—to the extent that some sources indicate that they're not so much 'piloting' their mecha as 'plugged into' their mecha.*  So it makes sense that they would look less 'biological' and more 'technological'.

Oh, that's a cool detail about the Meltran in the movie. Further contrast between them and the Zentradi's organic aesthetic. Now the cyborgs from Macross Galaxy doesn't feel all that out of left field as I imagine they'd be to others.

 

19 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

A plausible hypothetical would be that the less organic design aesthetic belonged to the faction opposed to the Stellar Republic during the Stellar Republic dissolution conflict and were simply rolled back into the regular Zentradi forces when both sides united against the surprise attack on both sides by the Protodeviln and their Supervision Army.

Seems about right to me. Plus the factories that manufactured them would may or may not be active for a Zentradi to take advantage of as well.

 

19 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If you work backwards from the published total population of the Boddole Zer main fleet and the number of ships in the SDFM TV series, you get an average crew size of 1,470.

That's probably slightly misleading, since a large percentage of the ships are very small 500m-class fleet radar picket ships and there's that massive mothership the size of Japan to account for, but it's a ballpark figure for the crew of an average-sized (~2km) Zentradi warship.

The more I think about the Zentradi fleets the more amazed and terrified I am about the scale they have simply on their own.

[darkranger12]

While I do like the ship designs of DYRL and some of the equipment, I can't really say I like Breetai's or Exadols designs.   I dunno there was something charming,or comic reliefy, about Exadol's TV designs than his giant brain head from DYRL.   Can't say I like Moruk's DYRL design either.  But thats my opinion.

[RedWolf]

21 minutes ago, darkranger12 said:

Can't say I like Moruk's DYRL design either.  But thats my opinion.

Well DYRL Laplamiz isn't even a biological being but a holographic computer. Macross being Metafiction I can see the Protoculture actually have the technology for Artificial Intelligence. Terrans has been playing with that as seen with Sharon Apple, Manfred, and Cyberoids like El. 

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Now that I say it, I notice Delta gave the designation ZBP-104 to the Regult. Would this be it's retroactive number given for UN like the VBP-1 for the Variable Glaug, or a new upgraded model (different from the one with Queadlunn Rau arms and missiles)?

Delta didn't give the designation ZBP-104 to the stock Esbeliben Regult... the ZBP-104 and the other Zentradi mecha in Macross Delta are new models developed and manufactured by humans using captured factory satellites similar to the Queadluun-Rhea.

The VBP-1's other designation, VA-110, is a nod to the CONSTANT PEG designations used for captured Soviet MiGs, informally denoting it as a captured or reproduction captured aircraft.

 

10 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Oh, that's a cool detail about the Meltran in the movie. Further contrast between them and the Zentradi's organic aesthetic. Now the cyborgs from Macross Galaxy doesn't feel all that out of left field as I imagine they'd be to others.

Eh... a contrast in aesthetic is all it really is.

The Nousjadeul-Ger in the movie uses a similar setup, except instead of bio-fiber optics the Nousjadeul-Ger connects directly to the pilot's organic nervous system.

 

10 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Seems about right to me. Plus the factories that manufactured them would may or may not be active for a Zentradi to take advantage of as well.

Yup.

 

10 hours ago, TG Remix said:

The more I think about the Zentradi fleets the more amazed and terrified I am about the scale they have simply on their own.

It's definitely not something you see in a lot of sci-fi.

The scale's just too big to be easily captured onscreen.

[TG Remix]

2 hours ago, RedWolf said:

Well DYRL Laplamiz isn't even a biological being but a holographic computer. Macross being Metafiction I can see the Protoculture actually have the technology for Artificial Intelligence. Terrans has been playing with that as seen with Sharon Apple, Manfred, and Cyberoids like El. 

Wait, you mean the Critical Path Corporation guy? I thought he was a human.

 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Delta didn't give the designation ZBP-104 to the stock Esbeliben Regult... the ZBP-104 and the other Zentradi mecha in Macross Delta are new models developed and manufactured by humans using captured factory satellites similar to the Queadluun-Rhea.

I see. So they're fairly recent by Delta's time, or it didn't take them nearly as long as the Rhea-type battlesuits to exist?

 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh... a contrast in aesthetic is all it really is.

The Nousjadeul-Ger in the movie uses a similar setup, except instead of bio-fiber optics the Nousjadeul-Ger connects directly to the pilot's organic nervous system.

Yeah, that's fair. Though I wonder what that made Max at the end of the film, being a regular human but macronized. Then again the madlad is pretty much one of the most impressive individuals in SDF so he probably is just built different. 😆

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Wait, you mean the Critical Path Corporation guy? I thought he was a human.

He Ghost in the Shell'd himself prior to his death fighting the VF-X Ravens in the Macross Frontier novelization... his disembodied consciousness is one of the "Cyber Nobles" pulling the Galaxy fleet's strings.

EDIT: I should stress the digital lifeform "MANFRED" is a copy of his consciousness, not the original... 

 

19 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

I see. So they're fairly recent by Delta's time, or it didn't take them nearly as long as the Rhea-type battlesuits to exist?

We don't actually know when they entered service... just that they're human-made models.

2067 is the first we see them, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily new.  The Queadluun-Rhea was pushing twenty years old when we saw in for the first time in Frontier, with the specific model used being a 2056 update to the spec.

The New UN Government was manufacturing Regults for its forces shortly after capturing the first factory satellite in 2011, but without knowing exactly how long it took them to arrive at the ZBP-104 spec, we don't know how long it took to develop it.

 

19 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Yeah, that's fair. Though I wonder what that made Max at the end of the film, being a regular human but macronized. Then again the madlad is pretty much one of the most impressive individuals in SDF so he probably is just built different. 😆

It's been indicated that the miclone systems are capable of a bit of genetic plug-and-play when it comes to adding or removing genetic modifications specific to Zentran/Meltran battlefield roles... presumably when he sized up, his cloned giant body was grown with the necessary bio-fiber optics.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Seto Kaiba

[TG Remix]

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

He Ghost in the Shell'd himself prior to his death fighting the VF-X Ravens in the Macross Frontier novelization... his disembodied consciousness is one of the "Cyber Nobles" pulling the Galaxy fleet's strings.

EDIT: I should stress the digital lifeform "MANFRED" is a copy of his consciousness, not the original... 

 

The author must have really liked VF-X2 to have so many references in the game then...Though it makes logical sense considering colony's pleas for autonomy from the game was a leading factor to decentralization. The more I hear about it myself the more I want a English translation out of it.

 

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

2067 is the first we see them, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily new.  The Queadluun-Rhea was pushing twenty years old when we saw in for the first time in Frontier, with the specific model used being a 2056 update to the spec.

The New UN Government was manufacturing Regults for its forces shortly after capturing the first factory satellite in 2011, but without knowing exactly how long it took them to arrive at the ZBP-104 spec, we don't know how long it took to develop it.

 

Right, and it helps that Zentradi mech is really durable and cost/performance effective for over hundreds of millennia (and how when they reappear it's without much alterations to their designs.) iirc I heard a Nousjadeul Ger also appears in one of the Delta movies? Or I'm just thinking of it's glorified cameo in Frontier?

Though it's funny to me how there's less Queadluun-series in production because somehow a battlesuit's structure is more complicated then a transforming fighter jet. 😛 (Out of universe obviously they want to use their iconic Valkyries that makes the franchise stand out. Though on the other extreme they could've let them be cannon fodder to make the VF-25 look impressive, lol.)

 

21 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's been indicated that the miclone systems are capable of a bit of genetic plug-and-play when it comes to adding or removing genetic modifications specific to Zentran/Meltran battlefield roles... presumably when he sized up, his cloned giant body was grown with the necessary bio-fiber optics.

Now this is just making me wonder about the story and lore possibilities of humans macronizing themselves for whatever reason. Only other non-Zentradi example was Elma's dad. Still would be in the minority, but Macross does like to experiment with itself here and there.

[TG Remix]

And other random train of thought I just thought up of; I'm wondering if there were different head units for the VF-11 then just the similar VF-1A looking one, or variants of it in general like a VF-11S. Considering how seemingly widespread they were until Frontier rolled around, it's funny how we kinda get a VF-1D nod with the Jamming Birds(though I dunno if it's there because it's for two people, or it's specifically for the unit) and not like a VF-1J type or VF-1S type head for the Thunderbolt. Even the Excalibur and Messiah got more despite being high performing "main protag" suits.

Edited May 4, 2022 by TG Remix

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

The author must have really liked VF-X2 to have so many references in the game then...Though it makes logical sense considering colony's pleas for autonomy from the game was a leading factor to decentralization. The more I hear about it myself the more I want a English translation out of it.

I'm not sure it's that so much as Kawamori deciding that the events of VF-X2 were both more and less important than previously indicated.  The string of armed conflicts that were to be retroactively dubbed the Second Unification War became the catalyst for the New UN Government and New UN Forces to move to a more EU-like decentralized model, while the actual failed coup d'etat itself was deemphasized somewhat and is considered more a symptom of the move than its immediate cause.  Basically, those changes in how they reworked the government and armed forces were the basis for the shape of the world in Macross Frontier.  

Manfred, in particular, ended up being rather important because they chose to tie the "hyperspace resonance lenses" that his company developed to fold quartz, making him the retroactive developer of practical applications of the stuff and the original driver for exploration of Vajra space looking for more of that amazing substance.

 

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Right, and it helps that Zentradi mech is really durable and cost/performance effective for over hundreds of millennia (and how when they reappear it's without much alterations to their designs.) iirc I heard a Nousjadeul Ger also appears in one of the Delta movies? Or I'm just thinking of it's glorified cameo in Frontier?

I don't recall seeing a Nousjadeul-Ger in the Delta movie #1, but it has been a while...

Mind you, Zentradi mecha are extremely cost-effective and have a low failure rate, but they're also ergonomics and survivability nightmares.  Humanity tried to solve the surviability issue, but ergonomically the Regult et. al. are still kind of a mess, and presumably kept around because some Zentradi prefer a familiar unit.

 

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Though it's funny to me how there's less Queadluun-series in production because somehow a battlesuit's structure is more complicated then a transforming fighter jet. 😛 (Out of universe obviously they want to use their iconic Valkyries that makes the franchise stand out. Though on the other extreme they could've let them be cannon fodder to make the VF-25 look impressive, lol.)

So, there's a story there...

The bit that made the Queadluun series hard to produce (in general) and reproduce (under human engineering) was the Inertia Vector Control System, an extremely complex form of inertia capacitor that required very pure fold carbon in order to operate.  It was extremely difficult to replicate with the technology Earth had at the time, so the Queadluuns that Earth had were highly prized but rare units until the factory satellite was captured and repaired.  Replicating the rest of the Queadluun series presumably wasn't so difficult, but its acceleration is such that without the IVCS the pilot could suffer some pretty nasty consequences from high g-loads (mentioned to be 18G+), so the IVCS was necessary to draw the full potential of the Queadluun-Rau out.

The ISC used by 5th Gen VFs like the VF-25 is a derivative of that technology, to give you an idea of how advanced the IVCS was.

So you end up in this point where reproducing the Queadluun-Rau effectively was only possible from about 2040, at which point development of a VF that exceeded its capabilities began.  So there was this brief golden period where the reproduction Queadluun would've been quite good, but it's offscreen and by the time we see it a craft that surpasses it was on the way in.

 

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Now this is just making me wonder about the story and lore possibilities of humans macronizing themselves for whatever reason. Only other non-Zentradi example was Elma's dad. Still would be in the minority, but Macross does like to experiment with itself here and there.

It's mentioned in passing in connection with Klan and Michael in Frontier that certain genetic conditions and anomalies can have serious or even fatal health consequences in the micloning process... and that keeping giants around is a huge drain on resources, so most fleets don't do it.

 

2 hours ago, TG Remix said:

And other random train of thought I just thought up of; I'm wondering if there were different head units them the similar VF-1A looking one. Considering how seemingly widespread the VF-11 was until Frontier rolls around, it's funny how we kinda get a VF-1D nod with the Jamming Birds(though I dunno if it's there because it's for two people, or it's specifically for the unit) and not like a VF-1J type or VF-1S type head for the Thunderbolt. Even the Excalibur and Messiah got more despite being high performing "main protag" suits.

Most models of VF tend to take a "one variant to rule them all" attitude, like the VF-4, VF-11, VF-14, and VF-171.  

While they are certainly more action figure-friendly, the VF models that have a bunch of different head variants are actually the exception rather than the norm in-universe.

[sketchley]

4 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Right, and it helps that Zentradi mech is really durable and cost/performance effective for over hundreds of millennia (and how when they reappear it's without much alterations to their designs.) iirc I heard a Nousjadeul Ger also appears in one of the Delta movies? Or I'm just thinking of it's glorified cameo in Frontier?

If you're thinking of the damaged one that's been floating in space for ages and the VF pilot just plucks it's big gun and uses it to shoot the enemy, then that would be Frontier.

Even if it's not what you're thinking of, that scene speaks volumes about the Zentradi mecha.

 

As for the durability of Zentradi weapons, IIRC, in the section in the doujinshi on the Zentradi ships that mentions human-made guns (etc.) replacing Zentradi guns (etc.), they say something along the lines that while the performance has increased, the maintenance requirements have also increased drastically.

I think one analogy is that Zentradi equipment is like the cheap cars pumped out of factories with poor tuning that one can literally drive into the ground and it keeps puttering along, and the human stuff is like a finely-tuned race car that will stop working if something small goes out of alignment.

 

17 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Mind you, Zentradi mecha are extremely cost-effective and have a low failure rate, but they're also ergonomics and survivability nightmares.  Humanity tried to solve the surviability issue, but ergonomically the Regult et. al. are still kind of a mess, and presumably kept around because some Zentradi prefer a familiar unit.

If memory serves, I read somewhere that the revised/modified Rigado that appear in Macross Delta were partially revised to increase ergonomics.  E.g. replacing the 'chin' guns with a single under-slung machinegun-like turret system most likely vastly increased the leg room.

I'm sure survivability was also improved—at the very least, an improved version of Energy Conversion Armour!

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's mentioned in passing in connection with Klan and Michael in Frontier that certain genetic conditions and anomalies can have serious or even fatal health consequences in the micloning process... and that keeping giants around is a huge drain on resources, so most fleets don't do it.

That would be one advantage to not being a 40 foot giant: you tend to eat a lot less food, need less material for clothing and other effects, and you can get more folks your size into a ship that those of the 40 foot variety. I imagine during the early years after SW1, giant Zentraedi on Earth would have faced quite a bit of starvation, seeing as the biosphere was damaged and life was all but wiped out.

On that note: what did they feed the Zentraedi soldiers in the fleets? I don't recall seeing them having dinner, but I don't remember too well from SDFM.

[RedWolf]

15 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

On that note: what did they feed the Zentraedi soldiers in the fleets? I don't recall seeing them having dinner, but I don't remember too well from SDFM.

Quamzin had something like a giant drumstick.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, RedWolf said:

Quamzin had something like a giant drumstick.

Zentraedi Fried Chicken?

 

[JB0]

1 hour ago, RedWolf said:

Quamzin had something like a giant drumstick.

Also giant wine bottles.

 

As I recall, he is introduced gambling alcohol rations.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

On that note: what did they feed the Zentraedi soldiers in the fleets? I don't recall seeing them having dinner, but I don't remember too well from SDFM.

The one time we see them eating, it's a roast leg of something-or-other that resembles a drumstick.

Presumably if you can clone a forty-foot tall man in a matter of minutes, 3D-printing or cloning a large avian to roast would be child's play.  There ARE birds that big in the setting, like Eden's giant sauro bird, which seems to be reminsicent of Quetzalcoatlus... but twice the size according to Macross Chronicle.  (Picture is a statue of a Quetzalcoatlus lawsoni at the Detroit Zoo for scale, the smaller of the two species with a wingspan of about 5m.  The Quetzalcoatlus northropi is around twice as big, with a wingspan of 10m, the height of an average Zentradi.  The Sauro Bird is about four times the size pictured here.)

 

 

1 hour ago, JB0 said:

Also giant wine bottles.

 

As I recall, he is introduced gambling alcohol rations.

Yup... the very first thing we see from them is Quamzin and his subaltern Oigul gambling with liquor rations on how many ships they'd collide with by folding out too close to the Vrlitwhai branch fleet.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Seto Kaiba

[RedWolf]

Ninjin loves you yeah!