The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[TG Remix]

9 hours ago, RedWolf said:

It is piloted by Moaramia's clone sisters.

Now that I didn't know! It would make sense considering how Zentradi were cloned instead of birthed, though I just assumed they were nondescript Zentran rebels piloting those. I wish M3 had a translation of English somewhere, but I'm assuming they weren't as fortunate as Moaramia herself?

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's part of that largely undocumented decade or two, unfortunately... but given that the Variable Glaug was used by the Dancing Skulls in the late 2010s, and eventually became the basis for an unmanned fighter and then a 4th Generation equivalent manned derivative of that unmanned fighter, it seems a fairly safe bet that the Variable Glaug was at least moderately used during that period.

 

Right, I figured. I did read the 4th generation Neo Glaug bis had both a micloned and Zentran version, and I'd figure if that would be the case for the old Variable Glaug as well.

 

 

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The equipment used by Black Rainbow, Vindirance, and other paramilitary groups seems to have been largely sourced from defense industry corporations playing both sides of the Second Unification War.

It's designed to deploy human-made munitions, so it's a pretty safe bet it's human-designed.

I gotcha, was making sure since there was somewhat of a Zentradi tank in the DYRL Saturn/Playstation game, among other..."unique" craft in there. Still funny how out of all of that the most tame thing there was a watered down Queadluun-Rau (The Nona-type with only one back missile launcher. If they were made prior to the info that spare parts for the Rau's were getting sparse then I think they would've helped a lot, lol)

7 hours ago, sketchley said:

IMO, I think it's used only in the context of the game (as in the final boss), not the Zentrādi overall, as the staff behind the various productions of Macross occasionally use descriptive names (E.g. the "8-Engine All-Wing Giant[-People] Bomber" [aka: flying wing] from Macross Plus).

2 hours ago, RedWolf said:

Also the two forms of the Zentradi Saishuu Heiki. They just inverted the stacking combination.

You know considering the most widespread mecha in Macross are transforming fighter jets, a combining one isn't really that out of pocket. The UN probably wouldn't adopt it like the Variable Glaug though, considering it seems they prefer more smaller, easy to produce and maintain mechanics.

[RedWolf]

3 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

but I'm assuming they weren't as fortunate as Moaramia herself?

Whether good end or bad end there is angst. Basically whether playing Max, Milia or Moaramia they told the Commander to F-Off at the last stage. Though I speculate Ariel Jiffon which appeared in the Macross Frontier novelization I think is possibly a Clone. Moa's original name was Moaramia Jiffon before being forcebly adopted. 

I haven't seen Milia's post boss dialogue but both Max and Moa regrets being unable to save Moa's sister clones. In the Bad End Moa's losses control of her emotions becoming an angry Zentradi. In the Good End she quits being in the military becoming a civilian.

14 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

The UN probably wouldn't adopt it like the Variable Glaug though, considering it seems they prefer more smaller, easy to produce and maintain mechanics.

Well Moa said in the stage when it combine it was Big. My guess around Koenig Monster Battroid size or bigger.

[sketchley]

47 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

I gotcha, was making sure since there was somewhat of a Zentradi tank in the DYRL Saturn/Playstation game...

You mean the 陸戦用大型制圧ポッド (Ground Warfare Large Suppression Pod), or what Kazutaka Miyatake describes as a "Four-legged Tank" (四脚戦車) in his art book.

 

There are some pictures of it here (ignore all the text, as it's made-up baloney for the Robotech setting): http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/zentraedi/crystal_dreams/tolver_malgrin/tolver_malgrin.html

[TG Remix]

44 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

Though I speculate Ariel Jiffon which appeared in the Macross Frontier novelization I think is possibly a Clone. Moa's original name was Moaramia Jiffon before being forcebly adopted. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised. The Frontier novelization loved making references to the side/non-Kawamori stories (VF-X2 with the Macross 13 and Critical Path Corporation, The Ride's Chelsea and VF-19EF, etc.)

 

10 minutes ago, sketchley said:

You mean the 陸戦用大型制圧ポッド (Ground Warfare Large Suppression Pod), or what Kazutaka Miyatake describes as a "Four-legged Tank" (四脚戦車) in his art book.

Yes, exactly that. Was wondering if they were connected, but I guess it was just a coincidence. would there be any word on the Annabella Lasiodora as well? I heard VF-X2 and one Frontier story had two different background for it?

[RedWolf]

1 minute ago, TG Remix said:

would there be any word on the Annabella Lasiodora as well?

It is a Critical Path Corporation product if I remember right.

[sketchley]

54 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Yes, exactly that. Was wondering if they were connected, but I guess it was just a coincidence. would there be any word on the Annabella Lasiodora as well? I heard VF-X2 and one Frontier story had two different background for it?

The similarity most likely stems from being penned by the same artist around the same time (SDFM:DYRL: 1997.06, VF-X2: 1999.09).

 

As for word on the Annabella Lasiodora—here's my translation of the relevant section in Macross Chronicle: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/Other06aHatchetAnnabellaLasiodora.php

[TG Remix]

On 4/18/2022 at 9:12 AM, sketchley said:

As for word on the Annabella Lasiodora—here's my translation of the relevant section in Macross Chronicle: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/MCRmechanic/Other06aHatchetAnnabellaLasiodora.php

Funny thing is, I did install a VPN browser to use this, but I still have issues entering your site. Though I found a weird workaround by archiving your pages through the Wayback Machine. And yes, they were made by Critical Path Corporation, the Frontier novelization was weird by adding General Galaxy into the equation I suppose.

 

Speaking of ship designs, because of Macross' more space oriented setting, I notice that not a lot of focus is on the ships that work within the atmosphere. The only ones I know of is the Quiltra Queleual Class and the SB-10/10 Starwing Heavy Bomber. iirc there's instances where vessels designed for space could also operate in the atmosphere, like Kamujin's Medium-Scale Gun Destroyer, so is it the same case with Valkyries like the VF-14 where they're optimized for space, not not strictly for it?

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Funny thing is, I did install a VPN browser to use this, but I still have issues entering your site. Though I found a weird workaround by archiving your pages through the Wayback Machine. And yes, they were made by Critical Path Corporation, the Frontier novelization was weird by adding General Galaxy into the equation I suppose.

It seems to be an ISP thing... I've noticed that I can't access @sketchley's site via my home internet connection, but accessing it from a mobile device without being on WiFi seems to work.

 

5 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Speaking of ship designs, because of Macross' more space oriented setting, I notice that not a lot of focus is on the ships that work within the atmosphere. The only ones I know of is the Quiltra Queleual Class and the SB-10/10 Starwing Heavy Bomber. iirc there's instances where vessels designed for space could also operate in the atmosphere, like Kamujin's Medium-Scale Gun Destroyer, so is it the same case with Valkyries like the VF-14 where they're optimized for space, not not strictly for it?

For the most part, no.

There are very few spaceships in Macross that are actually designed to operate inside of a planetary atmosphere.  The vast majority are spacecraft intended for use only in space that can, in a pinch, operate in atmosphere by remaining aloft with gravity control.  There are a few exceptions, like the Queadol Magdomilla-class's forward section, which is more or less an excessively large landing craft, and the human-built Uraga-class and Battle-class that are designed to operate as naval vessels as well.  Otherwise, planetary operations are mainly sustained via mecha able to make reentry and return to orbit under their own power or using landing craft as the Zentradi do.

The reason you don't see many surface-capable space warships is that the Zentradi really don't bother with planetary invasions.  The kind of war the Earth Unification Government planned for, a classic "alien invasion" where capturing and controlling a planet's surface was the objective, just doesn't happen because the standard Zentradi approach to dealing with an enemy planetary base is to flatten the whole place from orbit.  Some surface-based defenses are OK in case an enemy scouting force does make planetfall, but otherwise there's not a lot of value fighting the Zentradi anywhere but in space.

(This was also true in Macross II: Lovers Again, where space warships were essentially limited to water landings.  The military's artificial island headquarters included wet docks to accommodate both human-made warships and captured Zentradi ones.)

[TG Remix]

Ah, I get the picture now. Zentradi does do planetary operations here and there, but nowhere near their standard operation. And it makes sense the UN Spacy would follow suit after they adopted their technology. Only other ships I'm aware that operate inside the atmosphere are from the games only, like the Dancing Skull's from M3, and some others that escape my mind.

Now that you mentioned the Queadol Magdomilla, I do wonder if the one that belonged to the Zentradi 33rd Marine Battalion is a simple redesign with DYRL mindset that they may or may not have always looked like that, or it's a upgraded version of it.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Now that you mentioned the Queadol Magdomilla, I do wonder if the one that belonged to the Zentradi 33rd Marine Battalion is a simple redesign with DYRL mindset that they may or may not have always looked like that, or it's a upgraded version of it.

Or it could also be a variant of the class from a different factory satellite group or fleet.

Zentradi equipment isn't totally uniform, the various factory satellites have been making their own refinements and improvements to the designs they produce for 500,000 years... and with fleets losing various tech bits in combat over the millennia, it could be a model that is either obsolete or for which the factory satellite was lost.

[TG Remix]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Or it could also be a variant of the class from a different factory satellite group or fleet.

Zentradi equipment isn't totally uniform, the various factory satellites have been making their own refinements and improvements to the designs they produce for 500,000 years... and with fleets losing various tech bits in combat over the millennia, it could be a model that is either obsolete or for which the factory satellite was lost.

Right, and with over 2000 large fleets across the entire galaxy, it's not a surprise that there'd be some variety, Heck, that can explain why we saw both TV and DYRL Queadluun-Rau's in Macross 7 Encore.

 

Looking through the New Macross Class launch dates, I noticed the Macross Galaxy was launched 2031, a year after the first New Macross ships were launched. As it's the 21st of the known amount of NMCV's, I'm now left wondering not only it was made the 51st Long-Distance Colony Fleet when others like the Macross 7 weren't even built/launched, but how it took a decade for the Macross Frontier (The Macross 25) to be launched.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Right, and with over 2000 large fleets across the entire galaxy, it's not a surprise that there'd be some variety, Heck, that can explain why we saw both TV and DYRL Queadluun-Rau's in Macross 7 Encore.

And the mixture of TV and DYRL Zentradi equipment in that very episode of Frontier.

 

6 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Looking through the New Macross Class launch dates, I noticed the Macross Galaxy was launched 2031, a year after the first New Macross ships were launched. As it's the 21st of the known amount of NMCV's, I'm now left wondering not only it was made the 51st Long-Distance Colony Fleet when others like the Macross 7 weren't even built/launched, but how it took a decade for the Macross Frontier (The Macross 25) to be launched.

Some of those dates are a bit suspect... being that some of them are derived from that infographic at the start of Frontier that takes artistic license with the launches of emigrant ships.

[RedWolf]

12 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Looking through the New Macross Class launch dates

While launch dates are evident we don't know the exact dates of construction and commissioning of New Macross Classes. Macross Musiculture has Macross 29 celebrate its 30th anniversary. The year is 2062 it would make it 2032 when it began. Thing is they don't just sent ships. It has citizens, an autonomous government, military, corporations, and the fleet is somehow sponsored for the voyage. For Frontier it was Richard Bilrer transport mogul. For Galaxy General Galaxy a megacorp.

[darkranger12]

Has anyone made a NUN territory map? I know the delta one has a map but doesn't overlay the Milky Way at all.

[Bolt]

At the beginning of Macross 7 and Frontier, human exploration routes are illustrated. I never really paused it to see how many (if any) settled worlds were included ...Maybe there's a NUNS territory map in the Macross Chronicle.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, darkranger12 said:

Has anyone made a NUN territory map? I know the delta one has a map but doesn't overlay the Milky Way at all.

Nope, there has never been anything like a proper map of the setting in any official media.

[TG Remix]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:35 AM, RedWolf said:

While launch dates are evident we don't know the exact dates of construction and commissioning of New Macross Classes. Macross Musiculture has Macross 29 celebrate its 30th anniversary. The year is 2062 it would make it 2032 when it began. Thing is they don't just sent ships. It has citizens, an autonomous government, military, corporations, and the fleet is somehow sponsored for the voyage. For Frontier it was Richard Bilrer transport mogul. For Galaxy General Galaxy a megacorp.

So it's not just a case of "build a city ship and battle ship, and send them both on their way as soon as possible, and call it a day" as I'd hoped. Really wished there was more elaboration with their commission and launches like there was with the Megaroad class (two being completed and launched yearly before the introduction of the New Macross class). 

 

Though, with Master File's Spica Shock, I guess the Battle 7 coming to bombard the Zentradi 1,534th Main fleet in 2037, a year before the 37th Long Distance Emigrant Fleet was launched, makes a bit more sense in that regard. The sponsorship point you made is interesting, since it seems there could be a pretty broad scale of potential sponsors for the fleets. What would have sponsored the 7 and 29?

Edited April 22, 2022 by TG Remix
Added two sentences

[RedWolf]

Considering several mentions and illustrations of expansion. Orion Spiral Arm that is  given. Come Macross 7 several fleets courses lead them to the core region of the Galaxy.  Macross Frontier explicitly said they are on the Saggitarius Carina Spra Arm. Though still corewards. The setting of Macross Delta has it around the rim more specifically in illustration the a Globular Cluster at the end of the Saggitarius Carina Spiral Arm.

Thus it becomes clear. Some fleets are not randomly exploring they are going for old Protoculture territory where there is high chance for a habitable A class planet. 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by RedWolf

[darkranger12]

59 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

Considering several mentions and illustrations of expansion. Orion Spiral Arm that is  given. Come Macross 7 several fleets courses lead them to the core region of the Galaxy.  Macross Frontier explicitly said they are on the Saggitarius Carina Spra Arm. Though still corewards. The setting of Macross Delta has it around the rim more specifically in illustration the a Globular Cluster at the end of the Saggitarius Carina Spiral Arm.

Thus it becomes clear. Some fleets are not randomly exploring they are going for old Protoculture territory where there is high chance for a habitable A class planet. 

 

There are the colonies like Eden and the ones in M3.  I guess you could say that NUNG territory is sorta vast...unlike UFoP in Star Trek. But its not like they've gone past the galactic center.

[Seto Kaiba]

49 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

So it's not just a case of "build a city ship and battle ship, and send them both on their way as soon as possible, and call it a day" as I'd hoped.

Well, yes and no...

The New UN Government is building emigrant ships at a downright blistering pace and launching them at a rate of one or two a year.  One detail revealed in Macross Frontier is that Earth is no longer the only planet doing so.  Eden's shipyards are also engaged in the business of producing emigrant fleets.

Of course, like any major government undertaking - especially one with such extensive military involvement - the construction and launching of emigrant fleets is shot through with involvement from special interests.  Not only do you have to build the emigrant ship and the dozens or hundreds of escort warships and auxiliary ships that support it, and select a population to inhabit it on its voyage, you also have to establish a working government on that emigrant ship, a functioning economy, etc. to provide for the ship's population while the fleet is in transit.  In the larger emigrant fleets, this inevitably means large corporations and other such entities get involved and establish presences aboard, and wield at least some influence over the government.  

The Macross Frontier fleet, for instance, was constructed and launched with the extensive support and involvement of the interstellar shipping firm Bilra Transport.  The company wields a lot of influence within the Frontier Government and deliberately charted a course into Vajra space to pursue the company's own ambitions regarding securing a source of fold quartz.  Macross Galaxy, on the other hand, was constructed and launched as a corporate entity itself... existing as a sort of flying R&D facility for its parent company General Galaxy.  Its corporate government exploited its governmental autonomy to engage in all kinds of amoral bullsh*t.  Because the fleet's population determine how the government in their fleet will function to an extent, there can be some pretty significant differences in government models, economic philosophies, and so on between fleets.  For example, in the Macross 29 fleet, the population contains a large number of refugees from wars elsewhere in the galaxy and has disbanded its armed forces after adopting a governmental policy of total pacifism.  Macross 11 got a bit weird with it as a USA-themed emigrant fleet... in a theme park-y sort of sense.  (And believe it or not, it's not actually alone in doing that kind of thing...)

 

49 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Really wished there was more elaboration with their commission and launches like there was with the Megaroad class (two being completed and launched yearly before the introduction of the New Macross class). 

Eh... Megaroad-01 was the only one that was really launched to substantial in-universe fanfare.  Afterwards, emigrant fleets were launched with such regularity that it became a lot less special.

 

49 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

The sponsorship point you made is interesting, since it seems there could be a pretty broad scale of potential sponsors for the fleets. What would have sponsored the 7 and 29?

Possibly a collection of smaller interests, rather than one large megacorporation, given that there is no evident corporate influence over the 37th fleet government and the 59th's economy has collapsed to the point that it's impossible to tell... though they were counting on switching to cultural exports (entertainment industry) to revive the fleet's economy towards the end of Macross the Musiculture.

 

 

19 minutes ago, darkranger12 said:

There are the colonies like Eden and the ones in M3.  I guess you could say that NUNG territory is sorta vast...unlike UFoP in Star Trek. But its not like they've gone past the galactic center.

It is and it isn't... the various worlds colonized by the New UN Government's emigrant fleets are spread across a huge volume of galactic space, but it's not like the New UN Government has control over the space inbetween.  They're so spread out because the galaxy is a VERY big place, worlds capable of supporting human life are few and far between, and traveling by space fold is actually a pretty rubbish way to explore large volumes of space because it's basically teleportation.  Convenient FTL sensors which can identify habitable planets from light years away don't exist in Macross and ships can't survey the space they're circumventing while folding,  so the only way to find habitable planets is to fold into a likely area and spread the fleet's escort out to investigate the nearby star systems before folding to the next likely area and doing it all over again.  Lather, rinse, repeat for years or decades until you find a suitable planet.  Some early fleets like Megaroad-04 sailed all the way to the far side of the galaxy before finding a planet, while others found ones only a short distance from Earth.

They actually have gone to the other side of the core, though... the Brisingr globular cluster is on the galactic rim on the far side of the galaxy from Earth.

[sketchley]

6 hours ago, darkranger12 said:

Has anyone made a NUN territory map? I know the delta one has a map but doesn't overlay the Milky Way at all.

Way back when, I attempted to make some for ... a different project.

http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Locations/Locations.php#intro

The ones most relevant are probably Milkyway Galaxy Map, and Milkyway Galaxy Core Map.

There's a lot more named stuff in the text below that section.  Just keep in mind that GREEN text is official setting, BLUE is unofficial, and black is neither.  The proximity of the named planets to Earth are best guesses based on what we know about standard Space Fold travel rates, and the locale's context (E.g.: places mentioned in the VF-X2 game have to be relatively close to each other, as the game takes place over weeks and months with relatively short* travel times.)

 

Disclaimer: with all things Macross, the official setting materials are vague.  Many times they just mention "in the vicinity of the centre of the galaxy".  They make no mention of what quadrant or how high above or below the galactic plane those things are located.

 

* at the opposite end, we have the Macross Frontier Fleet: it took 20 years to get to where it is at the start of the TV series, and the fastest trip back to Earth—with standard Fold Drives—is 10 years.

[sketchley]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It is and it isn't... the various worlds colonized by the New UN Government's emigrant fleets are spread across a huge volume of galactic space, but it's not like the New UN Government has control over the space inbetween.

Elaborating on this:

There are 2 general types of Emigrant Fleet:

• short range (within 100 light years of Earth)
• super long range (beyond 100 light years, arguably thousands of light years)

The short range ones started first, and one of those discovered Eden.

 

Based on that, we can speculate that the region closest to Earth (100+ light years from Earth) is the most explored, most developed, and most colonized.  It is arguably comparable to the UFoP in Star Trek (but more like a collection of fully independent countries rather than under the control of one mammoth government).

Beyond that 'core', it is literally pinpricks of human settlement in a vast sea of darkness.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

27 minutes ago, sketchley said:

* at the opposite end, we have the Macross Frontier Fleet: it took 20 years to get to where it is at the start of the TV series, and the fastest trip back to Earth—with standard Fold Drives—is 10 years.

IIRC, what was said was that it was ten years to/from the farthest-flung emigrant fleets/planets... which tallies with Macross Delta, given that Megaroad-04 needed ten years to reach the Brisingr globular cluster.

[RedWolf]

Given it is mentioned in passing in several media I think the Laramis system, particularly planet Sephira, serves analogous to Anchorage, Alaska being a transit hub.

First mentioned in Macross VF-X2 there are two missions on it. In Macross Frontier side story manga featuring Isamu Dyson he made a stop there before going to Eden as ordered. Rion Sakaki of SMS Sephira branch delivered the YF-24 to the planet Ouroboros. When his condition got worse Messer was supposed to transfer the Xaos branch in the Laramis system. But a short time later he folded back to save both Walkure and Delta squad.

[sketchley]

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

IIRC, what was said was that it was ten years to/from the farthest-flung emigrant fleets/planets... which tallies with Macross Delta, given that Megaroad-04 needed ten years to reach the Brisingr globular cluster.

What I was referencing came from Macross F.  And as you know with Macross, it was most likely altered when Delta was released.

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, sketchley said:

What I was referencing came from Macross F.  And as you know with Macross, it was most likely altered when Delta was released.

So is what I referenced... I think we're probably actually both citing the same source.  

Kawamori didn't specify that it would take ten years for someone to get from Frontier to Earth.  Rather, it was ten years from the most distant emigrant fleets to Earth... but I guess you could day the value of "most distant" may have changed a bit when the Delta series was being written, though they kept the ten years.

[pengbuzz]

44 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So is what I referenced... I think we're probably actually both citing the same source.  

Kawamori didn't specify that it would take ten years for someone to get from Frontier to Earth.  Rather, it was ten years from the most distant emigrant fleets to Earth... but I guess you could day the value of "most distant" may have changed a bit when the Delta series was being written, though they kept the ten years.

I'm back.

How to get to Earth from Frontier in less than ten years:

1) Put yourself in a crate marked We'd like to speak with you about your Battle Fortress' Extended Warranty

2) Have yourself shipped to Earth.

Those notices take less than a week to get where they're going!

[Seto Kaiba]

4 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Those notices take less than a week to get where they're going!

Because fold faults are just as big a problem for fold communications as they are for fold navigation, one-week delivery is most assuredly not guaranteed.

Indeed, based on Kawamori's remarks in Otona Anime #9, it can take as much as an entire year for fold communications to travel from Earth to the farthest-flung reaches of humanity's fledgling interstellar civilization.

It really puts the Second Unification War's casus belli in perspective.  It just wasn't realistic or sane to have Earth try to micromanage the affairs of emigrant fleets and planets when the turnaround time for news to be sent to Earth and a decision sent back could potentially be upwards of two years!

[RedWolf]

One has to note that was the same time the Zauber Flute, communication system that uses Fold Quartz retroactively, was introduced. Said to increase communication speeds ten times. Though the tech was modified for the Sound Jamming System.

I can see why Grammia joined Vindirance as his planet has a precious resource that is important to Lactence's agenda.

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by RedWolf

[Seto Kaiba]

58 minutes ago, RedWolf said:

I can see why Grammia joined Vindirance as his planet has a precious resource that is important to Lactence's agenda.

... I don't think that follows, logically speaking.

For one, the Critical Path corporation's research into potential applications of the newly-discovered material "fold quartz" was highly confidential at the time and Die Zauberflote and technologies derived from it were Manfred Brando's ace in the hole for his support of Latence.  How would King Grammier VI, ruler of a hilariously unimportant rural planet on the farthest fringes of both the New UN Government's territory and the galaxy itself know about those top secret developments?

For two, King Grammier VI's main beef with the New UN Government was the slow rate of economic growth and development on his hilariously unimportant rural planet out on the arse end of nowhere.  If he'd known that he was sitting on a gargantuan stockpile of one of the most valuable substances in the galaxy and the key to multiple technologies that could be considered game-changers for military and civilian technology, he would almost certainly have thrown his lot in with Latence.  

For three, people who knew King Grammier VI closely (e.g. Ernest Johnson) were pretty clear on the point that Grammier was an Honor-Before-Reason meathead.  He almost certainly sided with Vindirance for no reason other than to preserve his planet's governmental autonomy.

[sketchley]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So is what I referenced... I think we're probably actually both citing the same source.  

Kawamori didn't specify that it would take ten years for someone to get from Frontier to Earth.  Rather, it was ten years from the most distant emigrant fleets to Earth... but I guess you could day the value of "most distant" may have changed a bit when the Delta series was being written, though they kept the ten years.

I haven't really dabbled in Macross Delta stuff, so it may not be the same source.

Nevertheless, the 'same number, different meaning' mind-slip seems to happen more often than we'd all like with Kawamori-san and Macross.  In addition to the 10 years = changing distance, we have the 100 Zentradi ships thing (were in Buritai's fleet?  survived SWI?  went with Megaroad-01?).

Edited April 24, 2022 by sketchley

[sketchley]

5 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

How to get to Earth from Frontier in less than ten years:

1) Put yourself in a crate marked We'd like to speak with you about your Battle Fortress' Extended Warranty

2) Have yourself shipped to Earth.

Those notices take less than a week to get where they're going!

In the Frontier context: they introduced the Super Fold Drive, which purportedly surpassed Fold Faults and reduced travel times to 1/10.  So, it's arguable that one could travel back to Earth in 1 year.

Incidentally, Kawamori-san described the Macross setting (for Macross Frontier) as "the Great Age of Exploration with e-mail".  Hopefully that helps inform on not only the distances and travel times involved, but what he was shooting for with the Galaxy Network and the relatively concurrent dissemination of information (songs, technology, etc.) throughout the galaxy.

[Seto Kaiba]

59 minutes ago, sketchley said:

I haven't really dabbled in Macross Delta stuff, so it may not be the same source.

I'm referring to the Frontier-era Otona Anime #9 interview... in which it was indicated that the farthest-flung emigrant fleets/planets are around ten years from Earth by fold.

 

59 minutes ago, sketchley said:

Nevertheless, the 'same number, different meaning' mind-slip seems to happen more often than we'd all like with Kawamori-san and Macross.  In addition to the 10 years = changing distance, we have the 100 Zentradi ships thing (were in Buritai's fleet?  survived SWI?  went with Megaroad-01?).

I'm not sure it's even necessarily a difference in meaning... since Kawamori never specified which emigrant fleets/planets were the furthest away and where they were when he said the farthest were ten years from Earth.

Frontier's course was taking it into the core.  Even in Frontier itself, there were likely fleets farther away from Earth like the ones going around the outer perimeter of the galaxy (e.g. Macross-11).

[pengbuzz]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Because fold faults are just as big a problem for fold communications as they are for fold navigation, one-week delivery is most assuredly not guaranteed.

Indeed, based on Kawamori's remarks in Otona Anime #9, it can take as much as an entire year for fold communications to travel from Earth to the farthest-flung reaches of humanity's fledgling interstellar civilization.

It really puts the Second Unification War's casus belli in perspective.  It just wasn't realistic or sane to have Earth try to micromanage the affairs of emigrant fleets and planets when the turnaround time for news to be sent to Earth and a decision sent back could potentially be upwards of two years!

 

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

In the Frontier context: they introduced the Super Fold Drive, which purportedly surpassed Fold Faults and reduced travel times to 1/10.  So, it's arguable that one could travel back to Earth in 1 year.

Incidentally, Kawamori-san described the Macross setting (for Macross Frontier) as "the Great Age of Exploration with e-mail".  Hopefully that helps inform on not only the distances and travel times involved, but what he was shooting for with the Galaxy Network and the relatively concurrent dissemination of information (songs, technology, etc.) throughout the galaxy.

Er... you guys realize I was joking, right?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Er... you guys realize I was joking, right?

Yes, but we're terribly pedantic and will take literally any excuse to exposit.