The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Gerli]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

IIRC, most Macross titles get reruns on the major anniversaries.

Thanks. I was pretty sure that was the case, but I got into a discussion in Facebook with a Japanese fan who blamed the lack of SDFM on TV In Japan because of the Tatsunoko deal... that seems very strange to me.

 

[azrael]

2 hours ago, Gerli said:

Thanks. I was pretty sure that was the case, but I got into a discussion in Facebook with a Japanese fan who blamed the lack of SDFM on TV In Japan because of the Tatsunoko deal... that seems very strange to me.

It’s the same reason why we don’t see M.A.S.H. or I Dream of Jeannie or The Transformers (G1) on TV all the time. There’s a plethora of other programming on TV and only so much time they can allocate. They're lucky they can even air it during anniversary events.

[Gerli]

Also I checked the Official Macross Site for links to watch the original SDFM Show and there is A LOT of places to choice from.... anyway, thanks for the info

[TG Remix]

Hello, been a Macross fan fairly recently (Since November), but I've already been hooked with almost the entire franchise (there's only Delta), and I'm curious to learn more. I've been curious about a certain thing in the world of the franchise.

I know in Macross II "Lost Zentradi" were dealt with the Minmay Attack, rendering them to be considered a non-threat. But in the main continuity it seems the default reaction from a UN colony in the advent of a Zentradi fleet, big or small, is to annihilate them on sight like with the Chlore Fleet in 7. iirc I read once of Project M's purpose in researching song energy in Macross 7 was to expose uncultured Zentradi through music during the battlefield. This is making me wonder prior to that, could there have been instances in the main continuity that there was a Zentran fleet that was "Culture Shocked" like Gol Boddole Zer's fleet prior to the events of 7?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, TG Remix said:

Hello, been a Macross fan fairly recently (Since November), but I've already been hooked with almost the entire franchise (there's only Delta), and I'm curious to learn more. I've been curious about a certain thing in the world of the franchise.

You, my friend, have come to the right place to satiate that curiosity.  

 

 

1 minute ago, TG Remix said:

I know in Macross II "Lost Zentradi" were dealt with the Minmay Attack, rendering them to be considered a non-threat.

Sort of?  The UN Forces in Macross II's "parallel world" continuity do make fairly liberal use of the Minmay Attack to deal with the Zentradi fleets of various sizes that wander into their territory on a semi-regular basis.  That said, there's still very much an element of "kill it with (thermonuclear) fire" in their strategic outlook that becomes increasingly vital as the size of the enemy fleet increases or if the enemy shows resistance to the Minmay Attack.  The Macross Cannon-class gunships were essentially Plan B in the event that fleet couldn't be thrown into disarray using the Minmay Attack, with four of them having enough firepower to effectively one-shot an entire 1,000+ ship branch fleet.  After a couple of disastrous incidents in the 2030s (see Macross 2036, Macross: Eternal Love Song), the UN Forces weren't exactly going to take it as read that the Minmay Attack was going to be effective the first time, every time.  In many cases, the Minmay Attack worked best as a way to distract enemy forces long enough to decapitate the command structure of those larger fleets, triggering a retreat.

 

1 minute ago, TG Remix said:

But in the main continuity it seems the default reaction from a UN colony in the advent of a Zentradi fleet, big or small, is to annihilate them on sight like with the Chlore Fleet in 7. iirc I read once of Project M's purpose in researching song energy in Macross 7 was to expose uncultured Zentradi through music during the battlefield. This is making me wonder prior to that, could there have been instances in the main continuity that there was a Zentran fleet that was "Culture Shocked" like Gol Boddole Zer's fleet prior to the events of 7?

Eh... you could say it depends who the Zentradi encounter, and how big the Zentradi fleet is.

One major limiting factor is that emigrant fleets and emigrant planets are not so overblessed with armed forces that they can risk engaging the larger Zentradi formations.  Most have a few dozen to a few hundred warships and a couple hundred to a couple thousand Valkyries at their disposal.  They usually practice a policy of avoidance, since one of the signature strategies of those branch fleets when they encounter more resistance than expected is "Summon Bigger Fish"... which means they may come under threat from larger branch fleets or even a main fleet if they draw too much attention to themselves.  Since the Minmay Attack is not 100% effective on every Zentradi, the only way to ensure that no retreating forces give away your fleet or planet's position and come back with seven billion of their best mates to have another go is to kill them all before they can escape.  If the fleet is small - a few dozen or maybe a hundred or so ships - then an emigrant fleet or planet can potentially absorb that without overstretching their logistics.  Trying to integrate millions of Zentradi into your population is an invitation to trouble, like Earth found out the hard way with 8 million Zentradi refugees after the First Space War.

While I don't recall any (canonical) instances of the Minmay Attack being used in that specific time period, it's worth noting that time period is also largely a blank space on the timeline.

 

[RedWolf]

 In the Main Macross continuity UN Spacy particularly those on Earth see the Minmay Attack as a fluke. Less effective with Zentradi Remnant aka Rebels.who want to go back to the good old days of being a militant race. The reason it worked on Chlore's Mentrandi fleet is that despite being formerly part of 118th Main Fleet they were not present during the Battle on Earth. What they got was secondly hand information like Miclones who transform their ship as a battle form and Vrlithwai and Exsedol defected.

Th

The other known  uncultured Zentradi ship which is remnant of the Koper Main Fleet which was annihilated by the Vajra  some 50 years prior was a more typical response as SMS wiped them out leaving no witnesses. As.per Macross the Ride.

Edited April 11, 2022 by RedWolf
Grammar

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, RedWolf said:

Theory other known  uncultured Zentradi ship which is remnant of the Koper Main Fleet which was annihilated by the Vajra  some 50 years was a more typical response as SMS wiped them out leaving no witnesses. As.per Macross the Ride.

The remnants of the Koper fleet were also in that position where avoidance wasn't really an option... it was either try to subdue them and risk failure, or play it safe and wipe them out to avoid putting the ~10M people aboard the emigrant ship at risk.

The Macross Valiant situation described in Master File seems to be more typical, with a Zentradi main fleet being detected along the emigrant fleet's path and the fleet taking an emergency fold to avoid being detected at all. 

[TG Remix]

Ah, I see. would make more sense for emigrant fleets to be more passive in that case, since the Megaroad class didn't have any offensive capabilities. Though I can imagine in the situation like with 100 or such ships as you explained Kaiba, some colonies would be more willing then others to intergrate Zentradi. (especially with the New UN being more decentralized by Frontier.)

Now that I say it, I've been looking up articles of the mechanics of the franchise for a bit, and I notice some are used for "immigration fleets" (Like the New Macross Class) and others for "emigration fleets" (The Megaroad class and where the VF-14 is prioritized for). What would be the difference in the context for UN's plan to spread humanity throughout the galaxy? IIRC most of the ships launch from Earth (and some from Eden)

Edited April 12, 2022 by TG Remix
More detail/context for my question

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

Ah, I see. would make more sense for emigrant fleets to be more passive in that case, since the Megaroad class didn't have any offensive capabilities. Though I can imagine in the situation like with 100 or such ships as you explained Kaiba, some colonies would be more willing then others to intergrate Zentradi. (especially with the New UN being more decentralized by Frontier.)

It's more a concern for fleet size in general... the 1st Generation and 2nd Generation emigrant fleets that used the Megaroad-class emigrant ships were small, with populations in the tens of thousands and only a few dozen ships in total.  A fleet like that can't realistically expect to fight a Zentradi branch fleet even with the advantage of surprise, so for that period evasion was basically the only option.

(Mind you, the Megaroad-class was far from defenseless... it just wasn't a warship in and of itself.  They had Valkyries of their own, but were mostly dependent on escort ships for anti-warship defense.  Some of those early fleets were able to bolster their forces somewhat with one of the twelve mass-production Macross-class ships.)

Later fleets using the 3rd, 4th, and 5th Generations of emigrant ship had much larger populations and were consequently much better defended.  Those fleets were built for long-term operations with plenty of breathing room for population growth.  The 3rd Generation City-class could support 350,000 people all on its own and the exemplar Macross 7 fleet (37th long-distance emigrant fleet) had a total population of approximately 1 million and almost 200 escort ships.  Its successors went even bigger, with the 5th Generation Island Cluster-class (e.g. Macross Frontier) supporting 10 million while operating at only a fraction of their maximum capacity.  (Some of the emigrant fleets from that same period in the non-official setting materials like Master File are alleged to have ~900 warships in their escort details.)  Newer generations of Valkyrie, stealthier and higher-performance warships, and simply way more forces in general made having to actually fight a Zentradi force a bit less untenable, but avoidance was still the normal because hey... why take chances with that many lives?

 

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

Now that I say it, I've been looking up articles of the mechanics of the franchise for a bit, and I notice some are used for "immigration fleets" (Like the New Macross Class) and others for "emigration fleets" (The Megaroad class and where the VF-14 is prioritized for). What would be the difference in the context for UN's plan to spread humanity throughout the galaxy? IIRC most of the ships launch from Earth (and some from Eden)

There isn't one... that's a translation problem.

In short, the same kanji (移民 imin) is used for both "immigrant/immigration" and "emigrant/emigration".  Which one you use is dependent on a contextual reading of the sentence and/or situation it's used in.  Properly, in this case it should be "emigrant/emigration" since these fleets are departing Earth (nominally a nation) to go establish a new nation on an uninhabited planet somewhere.  You're only an immigrant (or immigrating) if you're moving into an existing nation with the intent to take up residence there.  

Most machine translations just go with whatever Definition #1 for a word is since they're not sensitive to context, so they tend to default to rendering it as "immigrant/immigration" rather than the proper, contextually-correct "emigrant/emigration".  (This tendency is a big part of why those translation apps tend to produce Engrish and cases of My Hovercraft is Full of Eels, especially with tonal languages.)

[blackconvoy_D01]

Which Valkyries in Gerwalk mode have the most/ best usage of dynamics and functionality; with/ without super or armored parts?

[Bolt]

56 minutes ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Which Valkyries in Gerwalk mode have the most/ best usage of dynamics and functionality; with/ without super or armored parts?

Interesting question..🤔
Arguable, at best. But , due to the additional container on the VF-31's, that would be my opinion. Though, by no means, is that my favorite VF..

Edited April 14, 2022 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

46 minutes ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Which Valkyries in Gerwalk mode have the most/ best usage of dynamics and functionality; with/ without super or armored parts?

Not really sure what to make of this question, TBH... do you mean in terms of specs, or just presentation in the anime?

[blackconvoy_D01]

29 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not really sure what to make of this question, TBH... do you mean in terms of specs, or just presentation in the anime?

I meant by technical specs.

By just a look either anime or toy; it's the 31 with/ without supers. Then the 29, 25 and last the 17 w/o supers in my personal view.

Edited April 14, 2022 by blackconvoy_D01

[Seto Kaiba]

18 minutes ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

I meant by technical specs.

By specs, I'd have to say it's probably the YF-29... since GERWALK mode frees up all of its weaponry at once except for the coaxial machine guns, and it has overall the highest total maneuverability performance and heaviest armor thanks to its top-tier ISC and the wingtip reaction engines.

[blackconvoy_D01]

6 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

By specs, I'd have to say it's probably the YF-29... since GERWALK mode frees up all of its weaponry at once except for the coaxial machine guns, and it has overall the highest total maneuverability performance and heaviest armor thanks to its top-tier ISC and the wingtip reaction engines.

Cool, thank you. Does the 31 lose the ability to use its leg missiles in Gerwalk?

[Seto Kaiba]

27 minutes ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Cool, thank you. Does the 31 lose the ability to use its leg missiles in Gerwalk?

I'm not sure it'd be entirely accurate to say it loses the ability... they're just pointed in a less than helpful direction (i.e. pointing at the Valkyrie's body or wing surface due to being fixed-forward launchers situated near the knee rather than the hybrid clamshell type the 29 uses).

[TehPW]

It's been discussed that UN Spacy (and NUNS) policy when it comes to any unaligned Zentradi Fleet is to either flee or utterly destroy it. I have another idea...

Why cannot an Emigrant fleet Claim to be The Protoculture and give the encountered fleet new orders (or more specifically, orders that either amend their existing orders or add to them)? 

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, TehPW said:

It's been discussed that UN Spacy (and NUNS) policy when it comes to any unaligned Zentradi Fleet is to either flee or utterly destroy it. I have another idea...

Why cannot an Emigrant fleet Claim to be The Protoculture and give the encountered fleet new orders (or more specifically, orders that either amend their existing orders or add to them)? 

Because the Zentradi have been off the proverbial leash for 500,000 years.

In order for them to effectively fight against the newly-emerged Supervision Army, the ancient Protoculture had to rescind the directive "Do not interfere with the Protoculture" and were not able to successfully reissue/reinstate the directive after the Protodeviln sealing operation due to the massive losses they had sustained.  The Zentradi haven't had actual contact with a Protoculture authority in half a million years, to the extent that the Protoculture's directives are considered literal ancient history, legend, or rumor.  Even if emigrant fleets could convince a Zentradi fleet they were the Protoculture or the Protoculture's chosen successors, there's no guarantee the Zentradi would feel any obligation to obey new orders issued by that emigrant government because the directive "Do not interfere with the Protoculture" hasn't been in effective for 500 millennia.

If they don't buy the emigrant fleet's bluff, then the emigrant fleet is likely to be lost with all hands.

If they really don't buy the bluff, the fact that humanity's signature warship designs are partly based on an old Supervision Army warship class could REALLY come back to bite the entire galaxy if the Zentradi conclude that humans are a resurgent Supervision Army.

(Master File has an account about the Macross Valiant fleet that suggests the New UN Gov't has a VERY aggressive policy intended to prevent the latter case.  The New UN Forces go to extraordinary lengths to prevent the Zentradi from capturing any human-manufactured starships or anything that might give them information about human settlements and the scope of human space exploration.  To such a degree that, in said account, the New UN Forces stage a daring rescue mission to evacuate a residential ship that botched their emergency fold away from a Zentradi fleet and then destroy the ship utterly with dimension eaters so that there was no chance of the Zentradi acquiring any information from its wreckage.)

(Both sides of this coin occur in Macross: Eternal Love Song, in which a Zentradi main fleet enters the solar system to use Earth as a weapon against the Meltrandi fleet that's pursuing them.  The Zentradi Burado main fleet, albeit motivated by Quamzin, has no real issue with getting Earth caught up in their battle.  The Meltrandi Leplendis fleet, however, still respects the directive "Do not interfere with the Protoculture" and actually withdraws from area after concluding that Earth is a possible Protoculture world. leaving them open to a counterattack as they withdraw.)

[TG Remix]

 

iirc

19 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

If they really don't buy the bluff, the fact that humanity's signature warship designs are partly based on an old Supervision Army warship class could REALLY come back to bite the entire galaxy if the Zentradi conclude that humans are a resurgent Supervision Army.

(Master File has an account about the Macross Valiant fleet that suggests the New UN Gov't has a VERY aggressive policy intended to prevent the latter case.  The New UN Forces go to extraordinary lengths to prevent the Zentradi from capturing any human-manufactured starships or anything that might give them information about human settlements and the scope of human space exploration.  To such a degree that, in said account, the New UN Forces stage a daring rescue mission to evacuate a residential ship that botched their emergency fold away from a Zentradi fleet and then destroy the ship utterly with dimension eaters so that there was no chance of the Zentradi acquiring any information from its wreckage.)

 

On a side note, I always found it intriguing when we see refitted Zentradi mechanics, or Zentradi-based UN mechanics to show how much they made a impact to advance human technology, especially with the likes of the entire Macross 5 fleet. Though I noticed it looked very different compared to the Macross 1,3, and 7, and it seemed until the Island Cluster class all of them (at least the Battle ships)  looked the same regardless. So I'm wondering if Battle and/or City 5 was the odd one out or the battleships always didn't follow a set design.

And to segway from one General Galaxy creation to another (I believe all the NMCV's were made by them, unless I'm mistaken), I know the VF-17 Nightmare had its first flight in 2035, is it said what year it was first put in active service? I'm also curious when the Queadluun-Rhea, Zentradi Type Northampton class and Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis were also first put into service, and if the latter two were specifically for the 35th long-distance emigrant fleet.

Quote

(Master File has an account about the Macross Valiant fleet that suggests the New UN Gov't has a VERY aggressive policy intended to prevent the latter case.  The New UN Forces go to extraordinary lengths to prevent the Zentradi from capturing any human-manufactured starships or anything that might give them information about human settlements and the scope of human space exploration.  To such a degree that, in said account, the New UN Forces stage a daring rescue mission to evacuate a residential ship that botched their emergency fold away from a Zentradi fleet and then destroy the ship utterly with dimension eaters so that there was no chance of the Zentradi acquiring any information from its wreckage.)

 

I'm aware of the Master File's "non-official" status, but it's interesting how they give out some insight into the small pockets in the vast world of Macross. I've read about the New Macross Class ships that are named there, such as the Macross Andromeda and Macross Olympus. Is there any elaboration if they are the 1st generation NMCV's, or the Island Cluster class?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

On a side note, I always found it intriguing when we see refitted Zentradi mechanics, or Zentradi-based UN mechanics to show how much they made a impact to advance human technology, especially with the likes of the entire Macross 5 fleet. Though I noticed it looked very different compared to the Macross 1,3, and 7, and it seemed until the Island Cluster class all of them (at least the Battle ships)  looked the same regardless. So I'm wondering if Battle and/or City 5 was the odd one out or the battleships always didn't follow a set design.

So, it's a LOT from column A... but not without a little from column B.

It's unclear if they were out-and-out unique, but the ships of the 35th Large-Scale Long-Distance Emigrant Fleet "Macross 5" were definitely odd ones out.  The fleet's population was composed entirely of Zentradi miclones and the ships produced for it adopted some Zentradi aesthetics and a greater-than-usual amount of Zentradi overtechnology.

The reason I say "a little from column B" is because, as is true for modern supercarriers, no two examples of the Battle-class are truly identical.  Even when they're building off of the same plans, little design concessions, modifications, phased-in upgrades, and so on are incorporated into their construction that deviate from the base spec... and that's before you consider intentional design alterations based on the newly-established fleet government's wants and needs.

The ships of the Macross 5 fleet aren't the only deviations by a long way.  Macross 1's City-class ships lack the armored "shell" seen on later models, and Macross 11 has huge heat dissipation fins and a train of smaller habitat ships.

 

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

And to segway from one General Galaxy creation to another (I believe all the NMCV's were made by them, unless I'm mistaken), I know the VF-17 Nightmare had its first flight in 2035, is it said what year it was first put in active service? I'm also curious when the Queadluun-Rhea, Zentradi Type Northampton class and Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis were also first put into service, and if the latter two were specifically for the 35th long-distance emigrant fleet.

Unfortunately, we don't have precise details about when many designs that were first seen in Macross Plus and Macross 7 entered service, since the period between Flash Back 2012 and Macross Plus is largely devoid of coverage.

We know the Queadluun-Rhea was developed in the mid-to-late 2030s and that production could not have begun earlier than 2040 since that was when the factory satellite that was to produce it was moved to its final location and resumed operation.  We know the model of Queadluun-Rhea seen in Macross Frontier is a 2056 improved variant.

 

3 hours ago, TG Remix said:

I'm aware of the Master File's "non-official" status, but it's interesting how they give out some insight into the small pockets in the vast world of Macross. I've read about the New Macross Class ships that are named there, such as the Macross Andromeda and Macross Olympus. Is there any elaboration if they are the 1st generation NMCV's, or the Island Cluster class?

Not really, most are mentioned only in passing... the only one that is discussed in significant depth is Macross Olympia, which is one of the 5th Generation fleets that was involved in codevelopment of the VF-25 after its YF-26 bombed out of their inter-fleet design competition.

[RedWolf]

We know from Macross 7 prologue Macross 1 had a series of City Class ships without a shell. Similar to Island Jackpot that landed on Ragna. Macross 5 and Macross Galaxy both had General Galaxy a hand in their manufacturing. General Galaxy being known to incorporate Zentradi tech in their products. We don't exactly know if Macross 5 was sponsored similarly to Macross Galaxy by General Galaxy. In any case the typical post Megaroad emigration fleet either has City class with a shell like in the Macross VF-X2 cutscene intro or Island Cluster Class like we saw in Macross Delta prologue.

[darkranger12]

9 hours ago, RedWolf said:

We know from Macross 7 prologue Macross 1 had a series of City Class ships without a shell. Similar to Island Jackpot that landed on Ragna..

Now I'm curious about the population size of each Macross 1 City ship. Also if they were as small as Jackpot was I don't think a NMCV ship could be attached to one of them.

[RedWolf]

4 minutes ago, darkranger12 said:

Now I'm curious about the population size of each Macross 1 City ship. Also if they were as small as Jackpot was I don't think a NMCV ship could be attached to one of them.

The New Macross Class fleets is said to be a million or more. In the case of Macross 5#s City 5 it had 300,000 residents on it. In the case of Macross 7's City 7 it had 350,000 people aboard but the rest of the population is distributed among the various big ships of the fleet. Macross 4 which terraformed Sephira had 1 million emigrants at the beginning in 2034 by 2050 it had a population of 6 million people.

[TG Remix]

17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Unfortunately, we don't have precise details about when many designs that were first seen in Macross Plus and Macross 7 entered service, since the period between Flash Back 2012 and Macross Plus is largely devoid of coverage.

We know the Queadluun-Rhea was developed in the mid-to-late 2030s and that production could not have begun earlier than 2040 since that was when the factory satellite that was to produce it was moved to its final location and resumed operation.  We know the model of Queadluun-Rhea seen in Macross Frontier is a 2056 improved variant.

Interesting, so they're from the same era of the YF/VF-19 and YF-21. As for the Zentradi Type ships, the only thing that I could get from them is the Macross Mecha Manual, where the Northamptons were built around the 2030's, and the Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis says it served colonization fleets in the 2040's, so they're implied they've been around for a bit before the Macross 5's construction.

I tried to do some digging to see if any word has been said about the VF-17's deployment. the Japanese wikipedia page for it says commissions for it begin was around 2037, two years after its first flight. Makes sense to me, considering the time it needs for testing evaluation, and the Thunderbolt, Vampire, and Messiah had the same time gap. I would assume it'd also be like a VF-25 Messiah and/or VF-X-11 situation where there's multiple prototype units but they're not in official service.

 

5 hours ago, RedWolf said:

The New Macross Class fleets is said to be a million or more. In the case of Macross 5#s City 5 it had 300,000 residents on it. In the case of Macross 7's City 7 it had 350,000 people aboard but the rest of the population is distributed among the various big ships of the fleet. Macross 4 which terraformed Sephira had 1 million emigrants at the beginning in 2034 by 2050 it had a population of 6 million people.

I assume around 1 million is the maximum compacity a City-class ship can hold if the Macross 1 can hold that many people. I find it interesting that both Macross 1 and 5 fleets show multiple NMCV vessels from what little we see of them (Well, intact anyways) I'm assuming the Marcoss 7 began having a lone NMCV with extra specialized ships, and the rest followed suit?

 

15 hours ago, RedWolf said:

We know from Macross 7 prologue Macross 1 had a series of City Class ships without a shell. Similar to Island Jackpot that landed on Ragna.

This is from Delta I'm assuming? I only caught the first episode, but is it officially said if it belongs to the New Macross Class?

Edited April 16, 2022 by TG Remix

[RedWolf]

32 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

This is from Delta I'm assuming? I only caught the first episode, but is it officially said if it belongs to the New Macross Class?

One thing is for sure it isn't called per se a  City class. My guess it is similar to that unnamed ship frequently seen in shots of the Macross 7 fleet that seems smaller and has a clam shell. Macross 7 fleet had private emigration ships like the Mark Twain that did not have a docked escort ship.

Megaroad 4 discovered Windermere in 2027 at the ass end of the Brisingr Globular Cluster. Full of Fold Faults making navigation difficult. However at the other end closer to the galaxy proper Ragna 800 lightyears  away gets clear Fold Wave signals that Xaos set up shop there as a communication and media megacorp. I take the implication is that Ragnans, Voldorians and Windermerans had first contact with the NUN roughly close in a set of years.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, darkranger12 said:

Now I'm curious about the population size of each Macross 1 City ship.

Exact specifications for the Macross 1 City-class are not given, but as it's explicitly a City-class just without the armored shell it can be assumed with relative safety that it's about 350,000.  That type appears in the animation of Macross 7 in the pre-OP infoblurb early in the series.  The shot they're in shows at least four ships of that type in Earth orbit, and the one closest to the viewer clearly has a Battle-class docked to it.  (Also visible in a printed screen capture in This is Animation: Macross 7 on page 4.)

 

5 hours ago, darkranger12 said:

Also if they were as small as Jackpot was I don't think a NMCV ship could be attached to one of them.

For the record, we're not actually sure what the Island Jackpot is meant to be or how it fits into the history of emigrant ships in the Macross setting.  Like a lot of things in Delta, it's simply not explained at all beyond the absolute basics.

Island Jackpot is problematic for a bunch of reasons.  It's clearly much smaller than the City-class 3rd Generation emigrant ship and the basic timeline of the Brisingr cluster being discovered by humanity would mean that it'd have to be either a 2nd or 3rd Generation emigrant ship.  Macross Delta's animators didn't design a new model for it, though.  It was a largely unaltered reuse of the Island-1 CG model from Macross Frontier.  All they did was scale it down and draw a new interior texture for it.  So it clearly isn't a City-class, and the design aesthetic doesn't really line up with anything we know about from that period.

It's possible Island Jackpot is an exemplar of the never-seen and never-described 2nd Generation emigrant ship class that was used between the Megaroad-class 1st Generation emigrant ship and City-class/New Macross-class 3rd Generation emigrant ship.

 

2 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Interesting, so they're from the same era of the YF/VF-19 and YF-21.

Given the available evidence, it appears the Queadluun-Rhea and YF-21 are VERY closely related... with both projects stemming from General Galaxy being contracted to restore the captured Quimeliquola factory satellite to working order in 2035.  The New UN Forces project to develop a Queadluun-Rau replacement and a 4th Generation Variable Fighter were largely concurrent developments, and the YF-21 draws heavily on the experience and knowledge General Galaxy acquired from the restoration of the factory satellite that made the Queadluun-Rau for part of the Boddole main fleet.

(Since the VF-17 was also mentioned as part of the previous quotation, I should note that while it is from approximately the same time period as the YF-19 and YF-21's development it's actually one generation older.  The VF-17 is the last 3rd Generation VF, and was upgraded to nominal 3.5th Generation standing by the time of Macross 7 thanks to various tech upgrades.)

 

2 hours ago, TG Remix said:

As for the Zentradi Type ships, the only thing that I could get from them is the Macross Mecha Manual, where the Northamptons were built around the 2030's, and the Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis says it served colonization fleets in the 2040's, so they're implied they've been around for a bit before the Macross 5's construction.

Those remarks are based on evidence from the aforementioned Macross 1 scene in Macross 7.  There are Northampton-class ships shown in formation with the four Macross 1-type City-class ships.  (There is also a partial view of something that appears to be an ARMD II-class space carrier or a derivative thereof in the upper left corner of the shot.)

 

2 hours ago, TG Remix said:

I tried to do some digging to see if any word has been said about the VF-17's deployment. the Japanese wikipedia page for it says commissions for it begin was around 2037, two years after its first flight. Makes sense to me, considering the time it needs for testing evaluation. I would assume it'd also be like a VF-25 Messiah and/or VF-X-11 situation where there's multiple prototype units but they're not in official service.

The VF-17 entered service in 2037, though because it was a dedicated Special Forces Valkyrie it was not rolled out in significant numbers.  The total number built was supposedly just 718 units.  It likely didn't achieve combat readiness until 2038 or later, though that would be hard to pin a precise number on because the time of adoption by various emigrant fleets would be different, but the lower volume of them and the smaller size of the units would make it easier to achieve operational readiness since fewer personnel need retraining.

The VF-25 and so on were a rather different situation since those were main Variable Fighters meant to be used by the rank-and-file, while the likes of the VF-17 were for the handpicked chosen few of the elite special forces.

 

2 hours ago, TG Remix said:

I assume around 1 million is the maximum compacity a City-class ship can hold if the Macross 1 can hold that many people.

1 million is the population of the entire Macross 7 fleet.

350,000 live in City 7, and the remainder are either soldiers stationed aboard the ~185 ships of the fleet's NUNS defense force or permanent residents of the various auxiliary and support ships accompanying City 7 to its destination like the resort ships, the aquaculture and agriculture ships, the factory ships, etc.  (In Macross 7 Trash, this also includes one dedicated cemetary ship.)

It's generally indicated that these ships are launched well below their actual maximum operating capacity, on the assumption that they will spend years and possibly decades on searching for an inhabitable planet to colonize.  The Macross Frontier fleet, for instance, is noted to be running at around 1/10th of its maximum capacity in 2059 with 10 million people living there.

 

2 hours ago, TG Remix said:

I find it interesting that both Macross 1 and 5 fleets show multiple NMCV vessels from what little we see of them (Well, intact anyways) I'm assuming the Marcoss 7 began having a lone NMCV with extra specialized ships, and the rest followed suit?

There's no actual hard limit on the size of an emigrant fleet... so it's not clear why some emigrant fleets had multiple primary environment ships and others had only one.

Macross 5 was shown with at least three City-class ships plus the same type of auxiliary ships the Macross 7 fleet used, so it's possible its initial population was simply that much bigger that they felt they needed three City-class ships, or they had fewer of the specialty auxiliary ships like the resort ship Riviera and had to incorporate recreational facilities into their main ships.

Even Macross Galaxy, a 4th Generation emigrant ship, is noted to have continued using the same type of auxiliary ships as the Macross 7 fleet despite its much larger population and the much larger Mainland-type environment ship.  It isn't until the 5th Generation Island Cluster-class that the functions of those auxiliary ships seem to have been absorbed into the main ship via its vastly more sophisticated Bioplant environmental maintenance functions.

 

2 hours ago, TG Remix said:

This is from Delta I'm assuming? I only caught the first episode, but is it officially said if it belongs to the New Macross Class?

That's Island Jackpot, and no... we don't actually know what it is.  As mentioned above, it's a reuse of the Island-1 CG model from Macross Frontier, but scaled down substantially.

[TG Remix]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's possible Island Jackpot is an exemplar of the never-seen and never-described 2nd Generation emigrant ship class that was used between the Megaroad-class 1st Generation emigrant ship and City-class/New Macross-class 3rd Generation emigrant ship.

I reckon it's either that to fill in some gaps between 2012 Flashback and Plus, or a specialized emigrant ship like the SDFN class. Honestly still intriguing regardless.

 

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Those remarks are based on evidence from the aforementioned Macross 1 scene in Macross 7.  There are Northampton-class ships shown in formation with the four Macross 1-type City-class ships.  (There is also a partial view of something that appears to be an ARMD II-class space carrier or a derivative thereof in the upper left corner of the shot.)

The ARMD-II class? Didn't know there was more then the two docked with the original Macross. I'm assuming they were for early emigrant fleets prior to the functionally similar Guantánamo Class?

 

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Even Macross Galaxy, a 4th Generation emigrant ship, is noted to have continued using the same type of auxiliary ships as the Macross 7 fleet despite its much larger population and the much larger Mainland-type environment ship.  It isn't until the 5th Generation Island Cluster-class that the functions of those auxiliary ships seem to have been absorbed into the main ship via its vastly more sophisticated Bioplant environmental maintenance functions.

Interesting...Though, it seems Macross 11 also utilized Island Clusters as well. Pretty quick advancement of technology either way, since the Macross 7's commission date is only mere years after Macross 25/Frontier's (2038 to 2041)

 

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The VF-17 entered service in 2037, though because it was a dedicated Special Forces Valkyrie it was not rolled out in significant numbers.  The total number built was supposedly just 718 units.  It likely didn't achieve combat readiness until 2038 or later, though that would be hard to pin a precise number on because the time of adoption by various emigrant fleets would be different, but the lower volume of them and the smaller size of the units would make it easier to achieve operational readiness since fewer personnel need retraining.

The VF-25 and so on were a rather different situation since those were main Variable Fighters meant to be used by the rank-and-file, while the likes of the VF-17 were for the handpicked chosen few of the elite special forces.

 

The Nightmare always had a specialized role compared to the VF-11 and the intended use for the VF-19, so that seems right. Speaking of Special Forces Valkyries, I believe Macross Chronicle stated the VF-14 we see in 7 PLUS is a special operations unit itself as opposed to being the VA-14 fans believed so due to the shape of the canopy. Even though it's more of a justification to why it doesn't match Kawamori's finalized design for the Vampire, it doesn't seem unbelievable, since not only that was an elite team sent to Varauta IV, and the VF-14's has a easy to maintain/customizable airframe. 

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, TG Remix said:

I reckon it's either that to fill in some gaps between 2012 Flashback and Plus, or a specialized emigrant ship like the SDFN class. Honestly still intriguing regardless.

TBH, as half-arsed as Macross Delta was... I doubt they thought that far ahead.

 

Just now, TG Remix said:

The ARMD-II class? Didn't know there was more then the two docked with the original Macross. I'm assuming they were for early emigrant fleets prior to the functionally similar Guantánamo Class?

By all accounts, the ARMD II-class were the majority of space carriers until the Guantanamo-class was introduced somewhere around the 2030s.

(If you buy Master File's account, there were somewhere on the order of 200 of them before the Guantanamo-class was introduced.)

 

Just now, TG Remix said:

Interesting...Though, it seems Macross 11 also utilized Island Clusters as well. Pretty quick advancement of technology either way, since the Macross 7's commission date is only mere years after Macross 25/Frontier's (2038 to 2041)

Macross 11 is a weird sort of hybrid.

It's a City-class, and therefore a 3rd Generation emigrant ship, but it's got a vaguely Island Cluster-like train of smaller environment ships AND a Milky Road.  Presumably the small environment ships are a similar type to the Akusho-type that was docked to the Macross 7 and home to Fire Bomber.

 

Just now, TG Remix said:

Speaking of Special Forces Valkyries, I believe Macross Chronicle stated the VF-14 we see in 7 PLUS is a special operations unit itself as opposed to being the VA-14 fans believed so due to the shape of the canopy. Even though it's more of a justification to why it doesn't match Kawamori's finalized design for the Vampire, it doesn't seem unbelievable, since not only that was an elite team sent to Varauta IV, and the VF-14's has a easy to maintain/customizable airframe. 

Sort of... Macross Chronicle refers to the Spiritia Dreaming VF-14 as a "heavily armed" specification VF-14, not a Special Forces Valkyrie.

[TG Remix]

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

By all accounts, the ARMD II-class were the majority of space carriers until the Guantanamo-class was introduced somewhere around the 2030s.

(If you buy Master File's account, there were somewhere on the order of 200 of them before the Guantanamo-class was introduced.)

 

Would they be at least visually identical to the ARMD class, or it's a different design from the TV/movie design? Or it's just not well established like the VA-14 or VAB-2?

 

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Sort of... Macross Chronicle refers to the Spiritia Dreaming VF-14 as a "heavily armed" specification VF-14, not a Special Forces Valkyrie.

Ah, I misremembered then. I also noticed they were on the surface of the planet too when they woke up the Protodevlin, and it got me thinking. even with Valkyries like the VF-4, VF-14, and VF-19F designed more for space, what stops them for being used under the atmosphere?

Edited April 17, 2022 by TG Remix

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Would they be at least visually identical to the ARMD class, or it's a different design from the TV/movie design? Or it's just not well established like the VA-14 or VAB-2?

ARMD II-class is the semi-official name for the movie version ARMD used in Variable Fighter Master File and a couple of other places.

 

6 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Ah, I misremembered then. I also noticed they were on the surface of the planet too when they woke up the Protodevlin, and it got me thinking. even with Valkyries like the VF-4, VF-14, and VF-19F designed more for space, what stops them for being used under the atmosphere?

It's not so much "designed for space" as "optimized for space".  They can still fly reasonably well and fight effectively in an atmosphere, but with less agility than a VF that is designed to be all-regime or optimized for atmospheric service.  In the case of models like the VF-19F/S, the optimization for space meant more verniers, abolishing some control surfaces that were not strictly necessary for flight in atmosphere (the canards), and changing the wing design to one that offered better internal fuel storage at the cost of some atmospheric agility.

[TG Remix]

The Zentradi rebel tech always fascinated me, and it's a shame that we're probably never going to see them animated. The VA-110/VBP-1 Variable/NeoGlaug has a intricate history,  and I wonder if prior to the bis version from Macross: The Ride, if the UNS Types ones saw widespread use for both micloned and Zentran pilots. I'd also be curious if there's more infor on the Feios Valkyrie other then just popping once in a while with rogue Zentradi factions. Though, I don't think there'd be any info (or non-obscured art) of this thing from M3, just that it's called "Zentradi Final Weapon."

 

Though there is the Gjagravan-Va from VF-X2, and it got me curious, is it said to be created by Zentradi rebels, or it just so happens to be old tech Black Rainbow got their hands on? I'm aware the Zentradi is more space oriented, but considering the Regult and Quiltra Queleual Class, they do have the means to do planetary operations if needed.

 

[RedWolf]

Well the Zentradi Remnant didn't exactly rest on their laurels once some of them learned engineering. The Variable Glaug was developed using leaked tech from the VF-4. In turn UNS stole from them developing a Miclone version of the Variable Glaug and eliminating the Battroid mode for the Neo Glaug. The Neo Glaug is actually a NUNS craft. While lore wise mutineers stole a VFX-11 during a revolt on Earth developing from it the Feios I feel design wise it us similar to the FBz-99G Saubergeran as it is flying wing and Battroid mode. The Zentradi Final Weapon is a strange combiner with two forms. A Humanoid Battle Suit like form and Jamming mode. It is piloted by Moaramia's clone sisters. Both the Variable Glaug and Zentradi Final Weapon were developed with child Zentradi or Meltrandi in mind. 

The Gjagravan-Va on the other hand seems to be tank Destroid platform.

Edited April 18, 2022 by RedWolf

[Seto Kaiba]

51 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

The VA-110/VBP-1 Variable/NeoGlaug has a intricate history,  and I wonder if prior to the bis version from Macross: The Ride, if the UNS Types ones saw widespread use for both micloned and Zentran pilots.

That's part of that largely undocumented decade or two, unfortunately... but given that the Variable Glaug was used by the Dancing Skulls in the late 2010s, and eventually became the basis for an unmanned fighter and then a 4th Generation equivalent manned derivative of that unmanned fighter, it seems a fairly safe bet that the Variable Glaug was at least moderately used during that period.

 

51 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

I'd also be curious if there's more infor on the Feios Valkyrie other then just popping once in a while with rogue Zentradi factions.

Not really... just the basics of its origin like being based on a stolen VF-X-11 prototype.

 

51 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Though there is the Gjagravan-Va from VF-X2, and it got me curious, is it said to be created by Zentradi rebels, or it just so happens to be old tech Black Rainbow got their hands on? I'm aware the Zentradi is more space oriented, but considering the Regult and Quiltra Queleual Class, they do have the means to do planetary operations if needed.

 

The equipment used by Black Rainbow, Vindirance, and other paramilitary groups seems to have been largely sourced from defense industry corporations playing both sides of the Second Unification War.

It's designed to deploy human-made munitions, so it's a pretty safe bet it's human-designed.

[sketchley]

2 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Though, I don't think there'd be any info (or non-obscured art) of this thing from M3, just that it's called "Zentradi Final Weapon."

 

 

Alas, the only info about this appears to be what's been posted in Macross World (back in 2009!): https://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/topic/29401-gattai/

Regarding its name, I think "Final Weapon" is a mistranslation.  If Redwolf's post is correct, then it would be 最終兵器, or "Ultimate Weapon" (idiomatically: one's final trump card).

IMO, I think it's used only in the context of the game (as in the final boss), not the Zentrādi overall, as the staff behind the various productions of Macross occasionally use descriptive names (E.g. the "8-Engine All-Wing Giant[-People] Bomber" [aka: flying wing] from Macross Plus).

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by sketchley

[RedWolf]

5he Zentradi mutineers which left Earth set up shop in the abandoned colony of Elysium and made custom versions of their craft with Stealth surfaces.

 

Also the two forms of the Zentradi Saishuu Heiki. They just inverted the stacking combination.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by RedWolf