The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Bolt]

Which ARMD's went off with Mega Road-01 ? We know there were two docked to the SDF-2 , I can't figure out what # or name and I'm not even sure it's in the info provided in the old Macross Chronicle #33.. were there other ARMD's that went along on that mission? 

[Seto Kaiba]

33 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Which ARMD's went off with Mega Road-01 ? We know there were two docked to the SDF-2 , I can't figure out what # or name and I'm not even sure it's in the info provided in the old Macross Chronicle #33.. were there other ARMD's that went along on that mission? 

Y'know, I don't think they've ever actually identified the structures on the sides of the Megaroad-class as standalone ARMD-class carriers.  They appear to be built into the superstructure of the Megaroad-class ship.

I do recall reading that ARMD-09 Midway, ARMD-10 Haruna, and ARMD-11 Kiev were a part of the Megaroad-01's escort detail though.

[Bolt]

36 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Y'know, I don't think they've ever actually identified the structures on the sides of the Megaroad-class as standalone ARMD-class carriers.  They appear to be built into the superstructure of the Megaroad-class ship.

Interesting point!

37 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I do recall reading that ARMD-09 Midway, ARMD-10 Haruna, and ARMD-11 Kiev were a part of the Megaroad-01's escort detail though.

[Seto Kaiba]

On 1/4/2020 at 10:06 PM, Bolt said:

Interesting point!

As a brief addendum, the one time we see them up close in the Macross M3 opening their interior appears to be in the same plane as the rest of the Megaroad-class ship's instead of being perpendicular as we'd expect if they were ARMD-class ships.

[Bolt]

Good catch. I've never seen any M3 content before. That was very cool!

[Brofessor]

Are there any forums here discussing the most accurate Japanese to English subtitle translations of Episodes 1 to 36? Maybe even a sort of canon translation? Are there any episode transcripts in English? How many different subtitle versions are there? I watched SDF Macross using the current Amazon version with the English subtitles. It is by FilmRise.  There seem to be multiple VHS and DVD versions and translations over the years.  There are a lot of archived discussions across the internet which do not apply to this Amazon or FilmRise version. One example is the term "comfort woman" not being present. I have read archived discussions about Episode 15 when Minmay's father accuses her of being a "comfort woman" but in this current Amazon version it is translated as "entertaining the troops." I would be interested in purchasing the version with the most accurate translation or maybe officially endorsed translation. Thanks.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Brofessor said:

Are there any forums here discussing the most accurate Japanese to English subtitle translations of Episodes 1 to 36?

Offhand, I don't recall any recent discussions of which release had more accurate subtitles... the last major home video release of Super Dimension Fortress Macross outside of Japan was fourteen years ago, after all.

Absolute literal accuracy often makes for a very awkward-sounding translation, and as such most generally consider the "best" translation to be the ones that effectively balance being faithful to the substance of the original dialog with localization tweaks to make the dialog flow naturally in the target language.  Otherwise you end up with a grammatical nightmare like the Studio Khara-supplied translation used in Netflix's Neon Genesis Evangelion that flows as naturally as a river of bricks.

 

 

Quote

How many different subtitle versions are there?

At least three... the hilariously awful and mercifully incomplete Streamline Pictures subtitles that were produced for the 1994 Robotech "Perfect Collection" double feature VHS set that was canned after eight volumes (16 episodes), the excellent subs-only AnimEigo DVD release from 2001/2002, and the 2006 ADV Films dub/sub DVD release with the lamentably bad dub of the series.  AFAIK, the Lionsgate release just reused the ADV Films subs/dub as-is... that's the version you watched.

 

 

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One example is the term "comfort woman" not being present. I have read archived discussions about Episode 15 when Minmay's father accuses her of being a "comfort woman" but in this current Amazon version it is translated as "entertaining the troops."

"Comfort woman" was a translation error.  The term used in Japanese (慰問部隊 imon-butai, lit. "Comfort Unit" or "Comfort Corps") doesn't refer to "comfort women" (慰安婦 ianfu), but rather was a term for hired entertainers like musicians who were paid to entertain the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy troops during World War II.  Kind of like their version of the USO shows.

(The US National Archives has some records that indicate some members of the imon-butai in occupied territory were locals conscripted into service rather than volunteers though, which would probably go a ways towards explaining why Minmay's Chinese father Linn Pao-chun is so upset by the similarity he sees there.)

 

 

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I would be interested in purchasing the version with the most accurate translation or maybe officially endorsed translation. Thanks.

My recommendation would be the old AnimEigo 9-volume DVD set.  It lacks the godawful ADV dub, and has overall the highest quality restoration job.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Seto Kaiba

[Brofessor]

Thanks. I really appreciate your expertise on all these matters.  Thanks for the AnimEigo recommendation. Interesting to know there are about 3 translations of SDF Macross.

You are a total Macross... (and RT) ...expert. It would be cool if the core group of experts here posted a thread of their backgrounds, their journey to becoming a super fan, real names, social media accounts, and stuff like that.

You are all like superheroes with all your knowledge. Sometimes I wonder who you all are. I kind of piece together the SpeakerPodcast guys and Jonathon Switzer.

Anyway, thanks again.

 

[Dressykamila1]

1. where sheryl became infected with the virus and how

2. Do you know anything about Ranka's father?

I have a more extensive question. He writes on various pages that Vajra has gone to another universe or galaxy, so where finally? And what does "universum" mean in Macross? An alternate reality, something invisible to beings like humans?

I also think about the singing skills of the Windermere royal family. They say the phrase "Rudanjal Rom Mayan" several times. Heirs have singing skills such as the Mayan tribe on the island, who have probably been specially modified. Case? The more so because the names are similar

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, Dressykamila1 said:

1. where sheryl became infected with the virus and how

Sheryl Nome was deliberately infected with the V-type bacterium by Grace O'Connor at some point between the death of her parents in the implant legalization riots in Macross Galaxy in 2048 and her case being documented for a scholarly journal publication about the disease in 2053.  Grace deliberately infected Sheryl with the V-type bacterium as the 9th subject in Project Fairy (which is why Grace calls her Fairy 9), the Galaxy fleet's effort to artificially reproduce the fold song abilities documented in their original subject (Ranka Mei, code-named "Little Queen", later known as Ranka Lee after being adopted by NUNS pilot Ozma Lee) that could be used to control the Vajra.

 

5 minutes ago, Dressykamila1 said:

2. Do you know anything about Ranka's father?

Nope... we see a damaged picture of him in the 13th episode of the Macross Frontier TV series, but that's all we really get.  He's a tall bloke who is probably human, given that Ranka's green hair apparently comes from her mother's side (he's blonde).  

 

5 minutes ago, Dressykamila1 said:

I have a more extensive question. He writes on various pages that Vajra has gone to another universe or galaxy, so where finally? And what does "universum" mean in Macross? An alternate reality, something invisible to beings like humans?

I'm inclined to suspect "universe" was a mistranslation.

At the end of Macross Frontier, it's strongly implied that the Vajra are travelling to another galaxy to mate and mingle with the Vajra living there.  There are still Vajra encountered in our galaxy after that point in time, like the ones found on the planet Uroboros in 2060 in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy and the one that was captured by Epsilon Foundation subsidiary Zelgaar Heavy Industries and transported to planet Pipure in 2062 for use in their research into weaponizing fold songs in Macross Delta Gaiden: Macross E.

 

5 minutes ago, Dressykamila1 said:

I also think about the singing skills of the Windermere royal family. They say the phrase "Rudanjal Rom Mayan" several times. Heirs have singing skills such as the Mayan tribe on the island, who have probably been specially modified. Case? The more so because the names are similar

Both are connected by the ancient Protoculture.

The Protoculture created the tribe on the island of Mayan to maintain the biotechnological Birdman weapon they left behind on Earth as a precautionary measure in the event that humanity developed the necessary technology for interplanetary or interstellar travel before resolving its internal differences so they wouldn't repeat the Protoculture's mistakes.  It appears that this probably happened very near the end of the Protoculture's existence, shortly before they went extinct.

The prevailing theory about the Brisingr globular cluster's high concentration of Protoculture ruins was that it was one of the last enclaves of the ancient Protoculture, the last major stronghold of the Protoculture's civilization before they went extinct.  Roid believed that Windermere IV was the Protoculture's final homeworld, and that the native Windermereans were created with their natural fold wave abilities to be the Protoculture's true heirs and successors.  (It seems more likely, with benefit of hindsight, that they were actually made to run the Delta Wave System the Protoculture built throughout the Brisingr cluster in an attempt to finally bring peace to the galaxy.)

The Windermereans believe "Rudanjal Rom Mayan" means something like "in the name of the true king".  Whether it actually means that is open to debate, but the word "Mayan" is definitely connected to two groups of comparatively primitive people created by the Protoculture to guard and maintain ancient superweapons the Protoculture created and buried there.  Considering how dangerous most buried Protoculture inventions are, I'd entertain the theory that it actually meant "DO NOT TOUCH".

[JB0]

Is there any known connection between the american Mayans and the protoculture, or is this just a case of using a "cool english word" without considering unintended implications?

[Dressykamila1]

who knows if the royal family has been genetically modified modified 

[sketchley]

3 hours ago, JB0 said:

Is there any known connection between the american Mayans and the protoculture, or is this just a case of using a "cool english word" without considering unintended implications?

I'm not sure if a connection was intended other than by a similar sounding name.

In Japanese, it's the island itself that is referred to as Mayan (マヤン島).  So, the people living on it should be referred to as "Mayan Islanders" in English (マヤン島人).

By "American Mayan", I'm presuming you're referring to the "Maya Civilization".  If so, the Japanese for that is マヤ文明 (Maya bunmei).

 

Take from that what you will (implied connection or coincidence), but keep in mind that the name Maya also shows up in Japanese.  E.g.: Mt. Maya* (摩耶山, sometimes まや山) in Kobe—a domestic name, with absolutely no connection to the Maya Civilization.

 

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Maya

Edited January 13, 2020 by sketchley

[Focslain]

4 hours ago, JB0 said:

Is there any known connection between the american Mayans and the protoculture, or is this just a case of using a "cool english word" without considering unintended implications?

Little of column A, little of column B?

Best guess is like another series, Symphonagear, that that phrase has some context, but is just to sound cool. The gear activation phrases for example use words from a few ancient languages, but are mostly just to sound melodic.

[JB0]

15 hours ago, sketchley said:

Take from that what you will (implied connection or coincidence), but keep in mind that the name Maya also shows up in Japanese.  E.g.: Mt. Maya* (摩耶山, sometimes まや山) in Kobe—a domestic name, with absolutely no connection to the Maya Civilization.

So probably just coincidence.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed. But I'm glad it doesn't seem to be a case of "cool english word adds unintended meaning".

[Bolt]

I never thought there was a direct connection to the Maya of Mesoamerica ever portrayed . At best something left up to the viewers imagination. Other themes and cultures have certainly been borrowed in Macross, without drawing a direct line to them. 

Having said that. As many know, the Maya were VERY concerned with astronomy and their place in the cosmos. Their astrological predictions were uncanny, and their use of Geomancy was very evident in city planning and temple layout. There could have easily been a believable connection to the Protoculture in the Macross world.

[Dressykamila1]

You know what Macross they are

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Dressykamila1 said:

You know what Macross they are

Other than the Macross-7, no... it's too blurry to read the names.  They're probably later (4th or 5th Gen) fleets if they've got names instead of just numbers though.  There are a LOT of the New Macross-class emigrant ships.  At least 29 of them given that 29 was the highest-mentioned number for one in an official Macross production (Macross the Musiculture, a stage musical).

[AN/ALQ128]

6 hours ago, Dressykamila1 said:

You know what Macross they are

The one on the upper left seems to say "Macross-Nantoka". The lower left is too blurry, as Seto said.

[locidm]

I've been out of the loop, what happened to the new macross series? I remember we used to have a thread about it, did it get canceled? Or did it turn out to be the second Delta movie?

[Bolt]

Second Delta Movie. Crickets and wind on anything else..

[sketchley]

7 hours ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

The one on the upper left seems to say "Macross-Nantoka". The lower left is too blurry, as Seto said.

If so, then they're totally trolling us!

何とか (nantoka) basically means "something or other".  AKA:  "Macross whatz-its-name"

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

If so, then they're totally trolling us!

何とか (nantoka) basically means "something or other".  AKA:  "Macross whatz-its-name"

Presumably part of the same cluster of fleets as the Macross Nandemo, Macross Dokodemo, and Macross Dunsel.  

[Sildani]

I claim the name Macross Donezo.

[Bolt]

10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Presumably part of the same cluster of fleets as the Macross Nandemo, Macross Dokodemo, and Macross Dunsel.  

Lol. Now i need some 1/72 water slide decals of these..

[Lexomatic]

Why does the warship Macross (TV version) have the onboard manufacturing capability to build Macross City, supply 50,000 civilians, and maintain/improve its fleet of mecha? Was that an intended capability, or did they spend a few weeks salvaging/relocating the factory district of space-frozen South Ataria Island before embarking on their interplanetary trip? (By a similar token, "rebuilt Macross City during the two week Hikaru/Minmei  vacation" is more plausible if the city itself was largely prefab and could be popped apart, relocated, and re-assembled, rather than poured concrete and welded steel. Everything might be fiberglass-coated steel panels (like the "unit bath" found in every Japanese business hotel), but that quality of fit-and-finish wouldn't be apparent in '80s-resolution animation.)

If I recall correctly, the Macross (movie version, before DYRL was re-contextualized as "an in-universe movie filmed with later-generation ships and VFs") is designed as an emigration ship, so it's already equipped with a more sophisticated urban center (with such amenities as gravity-inverted freeways).

FWIW, Robotech (TV) doesn't address this either, but Robotech (novels) is explicit that the SDF-1 is Zor's lab ship, and it not only carries critical gear for protoculture-based engines, but also "the equivalent of an industrial city packed into a few compartments".

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Lexomatic said:

Why does the warship Macross (TV version) have the onboard manufacturing capability to build Macross City, supply 50,000 civilians, and maintain/improve its fleet of mecha? Was that an intended capability, or did they spend a few weeks salvaging/relocating the factory district of space-frozen South Ataria Island before embarking on their interplanetary trip? (By a similar token, "rebuilt Macross City during the two week Hikaru/Minmei  vacation" is more plausible if the city itself was largely prefab and could be popped apart, relocated, and re-assembled, rather than poured concrete and welded steel. Everything might be fiberglass-coated steel panels (like the "unit bath" found in every Japanese business hotel), but that quality of fit-and-finish wouldn't be apparent in '80s-resolution animation.)

Well, most warships are built with machine shops and so on to build repair parts and tools and so on to keep the ship and any of its aircraft going between resupply operations... and the Macross was intended for long-duration space operations as a fleet flagship.

The factory was part of the ship's intended equipment when she was relaunched, before taking on a city.  

Given how big some of the ship's hatches are, it was probably easier to just carve entire city blocks out of the island and move them in one piece into the ship before connecting them to utilities.

 

2 hours ago, Lexomatic said:

If I recall correctly, the Macross (movie version, before DYRL was re-contextualized as "an in-universe movie filmed with later-generation ships and VFs") is designed as an emigration ship, so it's already equipped with a more sophisticated urban center (with such amenities as gravity-inverted freeways).

Yeah... in Macross: Do You Remember Love?, the Macross had been rebuilt as a warship that could pull double duty as an emigrant ship for space exploration.  That said, that trait was not confined to the movie.  The mass-produced Macross-class ships that were built to escort the Megaroad-class ships had limited emigrant populations themselves (~10,000 people long-term) supported in a small town inside the ship.  In at least one documented case, a Macross-class ship became the de facto planetary capital of the emigrant planet it landed on... Uroboros, where the SDFN-08 General Vrlitwhai Kridanik was the planet's main city "Vrlitwhai City".

In Macross II's timeline, Macross-class and Megaroad-class ships were both used as emigrant ships.  The 2054 Zentradi invasion was caused when a Macross-class emigrant ship blundered directly into a Zentradi main fleet on its first space fold out of Earth's solar system.

In Macross IIs timeline, the onboard factory aboard the Macross was assisted in its endeavors by staff from the various defense contractors who were there to oversee space testing of things like the VF-1 and its option packs... and it was those engineers on the Macross who were responsible for developing its original designs like the VE-1 (in that timeline).

[JB0]

18 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The 2054 Zentradi invasion was caused when a Macross-class emigrant ship blundered directly into a Zentradi main fleet on its first space fold out of Earth's solar system.

That is some monumentally awful luck right there.

 

[Brofessor]

Hi there. Just a quick question. In the original SDF Macross, what kind of clones are the Zentradi? If Milia is the best pilot, could the Zentradi clone several copies of her? Is this a plot hole? Have any micronians ever been cloned in the Macross franchise? Could Max be cloned?

Is it strange the Zentradi are clones but not identical clones?

Thanks

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Brofessor said:

Hi there. Just a quick question. In the original SDF Macross, what kind of clones are the Zentradi?

The smartarse in me wants to answer with "big ones".

The ancient Protoculture's cloning technology is capable of copying everything, even an individual's memories, though the Zentradi appear to allow their clones to gain experience naturally.

(That's actually how micloning machines work.  They just grow a new body and pipe the consciousness over to it, then break the old one down for raw material.)

 

1 minute ago, Brofessor said:

If Milia is the best pilot, could the Zentradi clone several copies of her?

Sure.  Mind you, other clones off the same base template as her wouldn't have her specific memories and experience she does that made her such a superb pilot.  In all likelihood, there were several Milias kicking around at any given time.  She's Milia 639 in the Do You Remember Love? movie.

 

1 minute ago, Brofessor said:

Is this a plot hole?

Nope.

 

1 minute ago, Brofessor said:

Have any micronians ever been cloned in the Macross franchise?

Yup.  The New UN Government made extensive use of captured Zentradi Army cloning tech to shore up humanity's population for about twenty years following the conclusion of the First Space War.  They only stopped because the excessive use of cloning was linked to a rise in the incidence of recessive genetic illnesses in subsequent generations of natural-born people.

 

1 minute ago, Brofessor said:

Could Max be cloned?

Yes.

 

1 minute ago, Brofessor said:

Is it strange the Zentradi are clones but not identical clones?

There are "identical" clones, they're just not all one series of clones like the Grand Army of the Republic in Star Wars was.

We've seen cases where there are two or more clones based off the same genetic profile, like Quamzin in the original series and his double Temjin in Macross Frontier.  

Presumably the factory satellites producing clones have been working to the same program of patient refinement that the factory satellites producing equipment have been, taking feedback from units in the field and remedying weaknesses and deficiencies to produce a better weapon.

[Gerli]

Making people by cloning them is efficient but boring... ask Max about his seven daughters... I'm sure he enjoyed doing that work 

[jeniusornome]

After tens of thousands of years of cultural repression, I imagine Max was just holding on for dear life. 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Gerli said:

Making people by cloning them is efficient but boring... ask Max about his seven daughters... I'm sure he enjoyed doing that work 

He's not nothing on Shammy... she had ELEVEN.  For a while there, there were two rabbits on the moon...   

Still, can you imagine how stressful that time of the month must've been for Max as the only man in a house with nine women?  Yikes.

(There's a great piece of art by Noboru Ishiguro in This is Animation #5: Super Dimension Fortress Macross Part II that shows Max and Milia in the bedroom.  He's holding a book titled "ENJOY OF SHOYA"¹ but has been knocked out by her as she tries out things she read in the book she's holding: "HOW TO KARATE".  The piece is captioned "I handed her a book of karate by mistake and it was a long first night ahaha... / Max".)

 

1. Presumably 初夜 - "First Night", acceptably translated as "Bridal Night".  I assume I don't need to spell out the implications there.

[Brofessor]

Thanks for the answers. I see a plot hole regarding just making an army of Max's and Milia's and cloning their memories as well and piping over their memories into all the clones so they are all experienced pilots.  Maybe the viewers must assume this was attempted in-universe and it didn't work. Maybe Max and Milia work best alone or in a pair.

It's intriguing the out-of-universe creators utilized non-identical clones. I wonder if they considered identical clones in the early stages of writing or if it even occurred to them they used a diverse population of clones for their plot. Maybe it just came naturally to the writers.

[Seto Kaiba]

30 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

Thanks for the answers. I see a plot hole regarding just making an army of Max's and Milia's and cloning their memories as well and piping over their memories into all the clones so they are all experienced pilots.  Maybe the viewers must assume this was attempted in-universe and it didn't work. Maybe Max and Milia work best alone or in a pair.

It's not a plot hole, it's an ethical concern.

Creating an army of clones to fight your wars for you is slavery... clones are people too, after all.  When the clones have the same memories, training, and talents of the originals, you're also stuck with the problem that you now have two identical people who both lay claim to the same past and the same property.  The New UN Government did use cloning to increase the availability of people with essential skills, but this was mainly used for staffing emigrant fleets so you didn't have two of the same person in the same place making things weird for everyone.  A lot of people would find living and working with an identical copy of themselves supremely disconcerting... never mind a legion of them.  Because these clones are people able to think and feel rather than brainwashed borderline organic automata like the clone troopers in Star Wars, you could also very quickly end up with an uprising of PO'd clones.

Max and Milia were also important to the New UN Government as public figures, the hard proof that peace was possible between Humans and Zentradi.  Duplicating them willy-nilly would dilute the significance of their relationship in propaganda terms.

We get an aside note in Macross Delta: Passionate Walkure that cloning for military purposes is very definitely illegal under the New UN Government.

 

30 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

It's intriguing the out-of-universe creators utilized non-identical clones. I wonder if they considered identical clones in the early stages of writing or if it even occurred to them they used a diverse population of clones for their plot. Maybe it just came naturally to the writers.

I'd expect a big part of it was having identifiable characters among the clones who were important to the story like Vrlitwhai, Exsedol, Boddole Zer, Quamzin, Laplamiz, Oigul, and the lolicon trio (Roli, Warera, and Conda).  Having a completely homogeneous clone population also means that you won't see individuals who excel in particular areas.