The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Sildani]

Didn’t we say somewhere that the NUNS keeps a couple squadrons of VF-1s around for covert ops specifically because there’s so dang many of them still running around they’d be invisible for all practical purposes?

[sketchley]

18 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Didn’t we say somewhere that the NUNS keeps a couple squadrons of VF-1s around for covert ops specifically because there’s so dang many of them still running around they’d be invisible for all practical purposes?

I believe that comes from the background of the VF-1X++ in Macross the Ride.

[Bolt]

The last human outpost  looks to be near the furthest out planet Neptune, Grand Savoie Residential Area, where Kim Saintlaurent was born in 2023( I don’t recall who that is) ,Probably there are routine patrols out near Savoie Residential Area. Perhaps all residential outpost in the system have some kind of local defense force..? 

The furthest out “base “ looks to be Europa Base 7, where Isamu Dyson is stationed in 2038..So he gets kicked out of the Solar system and ends up in deep space after this (thus begins M+) ?

I know there is Reds wood Satellite City a bit further out, near Saturn which, again , may have its own defense force but this is just an assumption..

About Serra base..the information given indicates that it was manned by personnel from 2003 until 2005..?  Doesn’t Space War 1 begin in 2009? Am I getting my dates wrong?

And the ruins of South Ataria Island are still floating out there, near Pluto all alone..

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, sketchley said:

As per the book: it's something about the VF-1 being a really low threat level, and is used in a capacity to prevent the escalation of a conflict between belligerents.

As for the non New Unified Forces (Emigrant Planets, poorer fleets, etc.), it all comes down to cost.  The book even agrees on the point that the VF-1 isn't the best VF out there, however, it's still really good at what it was designed to do (intercept and battle Zentradi Mobile Weapons in regional conflicts).  And it fleshes that point out with those aforementioned remote, cash-strapped worlds (etc.) being able to afford either a handful of the latest VFs OR an air force's worth of VF-1's.

When you think about it, this line of reasoning doesn't quite make sense.

The cost part does, but not the low cost option being the VF-1.  These emigrant fleets would have left Earth or Eden with a New UN Spacy defense force attached that was armed with whatever current-gen variable fighter was the standard at the time.  The vast majority of them were launched after the VF-1 Valkyrie was supplanted by newer models meant specifically for low initial cost and excellent cost-performance on emigrant planets that were just getting established like the VF-5, VF-6, VF-7, and VF-9.  The first couple emigrant fleets would've launched with a mix of VF-4s and VF-1s, but those cheaper emigrant-focused VFs were already being mass produced by the time Megaroad-05 was ready to leave Earth.  These VF-1s would have to be something that these emigrant fleets built themselves or imported in addition to the fighters they already had, which is added cost not cost reduction... especially when you're decreasing standardization across your forces.

The oldest fighter you'd expect them to have would be the VF-4 or VF-5.

(The obvious answer is that this is a fact-checking failure on Master File's part... they didn't know about the raft of low-cost VFs that were built specifically for that niche.)

 

16 hours ago, sketchley said:

I also really like the point they make where the VF-1 is overbuilt, and in someways, sturdier than more modern VFs (echoing the RL design ideology of skyscrapers, past to present.)

On that note, I suspect that's more a legacy of the original materials the VF-1 was designed for.

It was likely overengineered a bit because the engineers weren't 100% sure what the stresses it would encounter in actual operation would be like so they did the sensible thing and made the safety margin wider than it actually needed to be.  It didn't start to really benefit from that until late life iterations like the VF-1X+ started implementing modern materials that were much tougher than what it was originally designed for, so it gained disproportionate toughness because the design wasn't adjusted to account for the changes in actual material strength.

 

16 hours ago, sketchley said:

Isn't that essentially what the VF-1Z constitutes?

Sort of... but not to the same extent.  There are limits to what it can adopt due to the limits on its powerplant.

 

16 hours ago, sketchley said:

It appears you've neglected to consider the mission role from that exaggerated response.  Here's the line about the Super Tucano from that article that could be applied just as equally to the VF-1 in the 2060's: "was designed to be a low-cost system operated in low-threat environments."

A Zentradi fleet is not what I would characterize as a low threat environment?

 

16 hours ago, sketchley said:

Perhaps it would be more relevant if I asked:  Why has the US Airforce been using antique propeller driven aircraft to fight ISIS?  They have the F/A-18F, the F-35, the F-22, yet they've brought Bronco's out of retirement for that fight.

Cost performance, because the actual threat posed by an enemy whose equipment amounts to Cold War-era small arms, rusted out 1990s Toyota T100 pickup trucks, and assorted sharp objects is so minimal that the fuel costs of dispatching a modern aircraft to flatten them with guided munitions is hideously expensive for the results achieved.  Basically, they aren't worth the expense.  

But the Valkyrie's K/D ratio against the Zentradi was pretty lame (about 1/12 IIRC), so it's not the kind of thing you'd want to depend on in a pinch if you had something better on hand... never mind fighting against other VFs, which the VF-1 wasn't all that great at.  (Which, I must concede, justifies Master File's characterization of it as 'nonthreatening' at the least.)

 

 

14 hours ago, Sildani said:

Didn’t we say somewhere that the NUNS keeps a couple squadrons of VF-1s around for covert ops specifically because there’s so dang many of them still running around they’d be invisible for all practical purposes?

That has to be one of my favorite bits of lore from recent Macross.  It's from Macross the Ride, referring specifically to the VF-1X++ Valkyrie Double Plus.  

Some blessed soul in the New UN Forces realized that Shinsei Industry's civilian market sales of VF-1 Valkyrie derivatives had been so successful that the phrase "inconspicuous giant robot" could be used with a completely straight face, and conceived of a Special Forces VF-1 Valkyrie variant for covert operations that could be blend in with the crowd.

The whole idea of a giant robot for covert operations is so bizarre that it brings a smile to my face for its sheer oddity.  Like anecdotes of Orc rogues in D&D who max out intimidate instead of stealth and just bully everyone who sees them into pretending they didn't.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

The last human outpost  looks to be near the furthest out planet Neptune, Grand Savoie Residential Area, where Kim Saintlaurent was born in 2023( I don’t recall who that is) ,Probably there are routine patrols out near Savoie Residential Area. Perhaps all residential outpost in the system have some kind of local defense force..? 

Considering they're basically elaborate space stations, I'd assume there's at least a modest defense force stationed there.

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

The furthest out “base “ looks to be Europa Base 7, where Isamu Dyson is stationed in 2038..So he gets kicked out of the Solar system and ends up in deep space after this (thus begins M+) ?

Isamu's bad behavior started a lot earlier than that... he started a career as the New UN Forces' regifted fruitcake in 2035 when the Spacy punted him to the Navy for being a naughty boy.

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

About Serra base..the information given indicates that it was manned by personnel from 2003 until 2005..?  Doesn’t Space War 1 begin in 2009? Am I getting my dates wrong?

Yup.  Salla Base on Mars was manned by the UN Forces from 2003-2005, at which point the UN Forces pulled out of the base and the returning fleet was ambushed by an Oberth-class destroyer hijacked by the Anti-Unification Alliance and wiped out.  

The Zentradi were able to effectively booby-trap the base during the First Space War because it had been abandoned for years, and in such haste that its supplies were still in place, making it a tempting stop for the Macross.

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

And the ruins of South Ataria Island are still floating out there, near Pluto all alone..

Yeah, but who's going to tell Global his island is illegally parked?  Or, come to that, good luck finding a towing company willing to tow that thing to the impound.

[Bolt]

23 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yup.  Salla Base on Mars was manned by the UN Forces from 2003-2005, at which point the UN Forces pulled out of the base and the returning fleet was ambushed by an Oberth-class destroyer hijacked by the Anti-Unification Alliance and wiped out.  

The Zentradi were able to effectively booby-trap the base during the First Space War because it had been abandoned for years, and in such haste that its supplies were still in place, making it a tempting stop for the Macross.

Ah so...then Misa’s Riber was killed by anti UN forces?

[Seto Kaiba]

33 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Ah so...then Misa’s Riber was killed by anti UN forces?

Ja, on 18 September 2005 c.1800 UTC when the Mars Return Fleet was ambushed by the hijacked UN Spacy destroyer Tsiolkovsky.  

[Bolt]

22 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Quote

And I’m aware , but haven’t looked up the details , that a Zentradi factor (or two?) have been “acquired “ along the way. Is said factory posting up in another system or is it somewhere within Earths Solar system?

... several.

Twenty or so of the bloody things have been relocated to the Sol system, there's one orbiting Eden, one orbiting Uroboros, and one or two others I'm sure I've forgotten.

Ok , so the Zentradi Earth Unified war machine is still going strong..I wonder how many battle pods have Minmay or Sheryl Naom bobble heads dangling in their cockpit. Not that there’s any room..

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Ok , so the Zentradi Earth Unified war machine is still going strong..I wonder how many battle pods have Minmay or Sheryl Naom bobble heads dangling in their cockpit. Not that there’s any room..

Dunno, but there's at least a few out there with shark mouth decals officially... which looks SUPER WEIRD.

[Bolt]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Dunno, but there's at least a few out there with shark mouth decals officially... which looks SUPER WEIRD.

Haha. Ya, maybe that would look cool on a Glaug..

[Bolt]

Pray tell where The shark mouth decals are official..

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, Bolt said:

Pray tell where The shark mouth decals are official..

Macross the Ride.

Macross the Ride Visual Book Vol.2 has a lovely illustration of one on page 75.

[Bolt]

I just got around to digging out my copy. I totally forgot about that! Very cool!

I haven’t looked at these books in a long time , glad our conversation led to this. I’m gonna have to try this on one of mine!

 

[JB0]

That's awesome. And ridiculous.

[NightmarePlus]

Ridiculously awesome.

[Seto Kaiba]

On 6/26/2019 at 2:02 AM, Bolt said:

I just got around to digging out my copy. I totally forgot about that! Very cool!

I haven’t looked at these books in a long time , glad our conversation led to this. I’m gonna have to try this on one of mine!

 

I can never look at that Regult in the background without my mind's ear attaching the Zoidberg-running-away noise to it.

Whoever decided Regult footraces were a good idea was a genius.

[Bolt]

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Whoever decided Regult footraces were a good idea was a genius.

Zentradi only race?

These guys would get a kick out of it..

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Zentradi only race?

The Ostrich Class races the Vanquish League holds are technically open to GERWALK mode VFs too.

SMS's parent company, Bilra Transport, fields a VF-4SL Lightning III that's a popular contender in those races.

[JB0]

Okay, I have to ask: are these footraces in the traditional sense, or are the foot thrusters used? In short, do the GERWALKs run or skate?

[Seto Kaiba]

On 6/29/2019 at 11:35 PM, JB0 said:

Okay, I have to ask: are these footraces in the traditional sense, or are the foot thrusters used? In short, do the GERWALKs run or skate?

Footraces.

[Mazinger]

Love the lashes on the Regault.  I'm gonna assume it's a girl.

[Gerli]

42 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Footraces.

I want an entire animated series about that... for two seasons and a movie.

Quote

Love the lashes on the Regault.  I'm gonna assume it's a girl.

*gasp* Did you assume a gender...? 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Gerli

[Mazinger]

12 minutes ago, Gerli said:

I want an entire animated series about that... for two seasons and a movie.

*gasp* Did you assume a gender...? 

Well eyelashes in a cartoon are always on girls, regardless of the hardware on the character.

Unless it's JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, in which case anyone is allowed to be gorgeous, no questions asked. 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Mazinger said:

Love the lashes on the Regault.  I'm gonna assume it's a girl.

... now I kind of want an audio commentary of Super Dimension Fortress Macross by David Attenborough, narrated as though it were a nature documentary about the life and mating habits of the wild Regult. lol

Edited July 31, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[JB0]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Footraces.

Oh my. That's fantastic.

 

3 hours ago, Gerli said:

I want an entire animated series about that... for two seasons and a movie.

Me too!

[Bolt]

Ok. Here’s a super noob.

Concerning the YF-29...I’m aware of the Perceval and the Alto custom being canon.  The Roy version is an anniversary special (right?) . What about the Ozama machine?

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, Bolt said:

Ok. Here’s a super noob.

Concerning the YF-29...I’m aware of the Perceval and the Alto custom being canon.  The Roy version is an anniversary special (right?) . What about the Ozama machine?

Macross Chronicle does cover the Ozma and Isamu YF-29s in the mechanic sheet that also covers the YF-30 and YF-29B, so they may be a thing.  I haven't translated the Macross 30 novelization yet.

[blackconvoy_D01]

Other than outward design; what were the other differences between the TV Macross and DYRL Macross? Who had more armaments, valks, destroids, etc?

[Bolt]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross Chronicle does cover the Ozma and Isamu YF-29s in the mechanic sheet that also covers the YF-30 and YF-29B, so they may be a thing.  I haven't translated the Macross 30 novelization yet.

Oh ya.I meant to ask about the Isamu version as well. I feel , with the YF-29’s, several of the schemes were done for novelty sake and weren’t in any side stories. Nor are they canon. Specifically the Roy version, the Isamu version and the Ozma version..

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Other than outward design; what were the other differences between the TV Macross and DYRL Macross? Who had more armaments, valks, destroids, etc?

That's a hell of a question.

The TV and Movie versions of the SDF-1 Macross have essentially identical armaments, with the heavy converging beam cannon, the eight converging beam cannon turrets, the four high speed railguns, and the various point-defense weapons.  The main difference, apart from the Movie version having been built with the city section where the TV version had to improvise it, would be in the implications of having a pair of Movie-type ARMD-class carriers instead of the Daedalus and Prometheus.

The TV version SDF-1 Macross sailed with 212 VF-1 Valkyries and 120 QF-3000E Ghosts, in addition to various odds, ends, and auxiliary craft and inherited both the 587 Destroids that were embarked aboard the Daedalus and the remnants of the Prometheus's 150 Valkyrie complement.  Not counting combat losses, that would've been 362 VF-1 Valkyries of various types, 120 QF-3000E Ghosts, and 648 Destroids counting the 61+ units built in the Macross's onboard factories.

The Movie version SDF-1 Macross already had her ARMD-class ships docked when she set sail under enemy fire.  It's not clear if she had fighters of her own, but each ARMD-class ship had 262 VF-1 Valkyries, 66 QF-3000E Ghosts, and various other odds, ends, and auxiliary craft.  The Macross had an unspecified number of Destroids stationed aboard as well.  If she didn't have the 212 VF-1 Valkyries and 120 Ghosts the TV version had based directly aboard her, then she definitely topped the TV version for VF-1s with 524 VF-1 Valkyries and 132 QF-3000E Ghosts.  If she did have those 212 VF-1s and 120 Ghosts, she would've tipped the scales at a mighty 736 VF-1 Valkyries and 252 QF-3000E Ghosts, plus an unknown number of Destroids.  The Movie version also left port with Super Packs for its VF-1s, where the TV version had to pick up most of the ones it used during resupply.

 

2 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Oh ya.I meant to ask about the Isamu version as well. I feel , with the YF-29’s, several of the schemes were done for novelty sake and weren’t in any side stories. Nor are they canon. Specifically the Roy version, the Isamu version and the Ozma version..

... only the one, AFAIK.

The 30th Anniversary edition DX Chogokin YF-29 (Roy colors) was done for novelty's sake, but the Isamu Dyson YF-29 and Ozma Lee YF-29 were both created for the game Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy.  When Isamu is originally encountered on the Sierra Desert map, he's flying his YF-19-2 Excalibur prototype and challenges Reon Sakaki to a race (which is the first look you get at the YF-30 you won't get until the final stage).  Later, once he's been persuaded to join the local SMS forces in stopping Havamal and the Bandits, he winds up on a Vajra ship where Sharon Apple (who had been dragooned into helping Havamal control captured time-displaced characters and the Vajra) gives him his custom YF-29.  That event got its own cutscene, and Isamu's YF-29 is present (kinda spoileriffically) in the game's opening animation.  Ozma's custom YF-29 is something you get without any fanfare, it's just an upgrade given to you right before the end of the game, like Alto's YF-29.

 

All told, there are six YF-29s you can obtain in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy... 

In the order they appear in the video linked above, they are:  the generic YF-29 Durandal that you get blueprints for once you reach a certain point in the game story, three character-specific YF-29 upgrades (for Alto Saotome, Ozma Lee, and Isamu Dyson, unlocked for anyone's use in New Game+), Rod Baltemar's Havamal-issue YF-29B Perceval (that is selectable, along with its pilot, in New Game+ only), and an Anniversary DLC YF-29 Durandal with the Ranka and Sheryl paintjob for which a code was provided in the premium edition (but was only redeemable with a Japanese PSN account).

The Macross Chronicle coverage admits to four of them... Alto's YF-29 from Sayonara no Tsubasa, Ozma's YF-29 from Macross 30, Isamu's YF-29 from Macross 30, and Rod Baltemar's YF-29B from Macross 30.

[Bolt]

Cool thanks. That red VF-0D is sweet. 

[Seto Kaiba]

7 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Cool thanks. That red VF-0D is sweet. 

Unfortunately the video doesn't show all the variant paintjobs.  The default colors for the VF-0 are actually Shin Kudo's blue from Macross Zero.

Most non-character VFs in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy offer a choice of four different paint jobs, with a fifth (Havamal's) that unlocks in New Game+.

The default YF-29 Durandal has some really trippy ones... two of which are plaid!  (No, really!)

 

EDIT: I guess that'd be how you know the YF-29 Durandal is capable of Ludicrous Speeds...

Edited August 1, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[Bolt]

20 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The default YF-29 Durandal has some really trippy ones... two of which are plaid!  (No, really!)

  

 EDIT: I guess that'd be how you know the YF-29 Durandal is capable of Ludicrous Speeds...

Where will the insanity stop?

The Sheryl and Ranka versions were really cool as well.

I’m quite bummed this hasn’t been updated for the PS4. I specifically bought mine (instead of the XB1) hoping for old or new Macross games. 

[Sildani]

Ok... why’d Sharon give Isamu a 29? How did she construct it? And why did he take it at all? Thought Sharon would have just provoked his anger and disgust, rather than any conciliation. 

[Bolt]

Good question. I thought SHARON had her processors ripped out and her core burned to carbon biscuits..

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, Sildani said:

Ok... why’d Sharon give Isamu a 29?

Because he's an adrenaline junkie and she gets off on that?

 

Just now, Sildani said:

How did she construct it?

Well, Sharon had been dragooned into working with Havamal.  They'd used her to mind control some of the more uncooperative time-displaced heroes from previous Macross stories (Max, Milia, Gamlin, SMS Skull Platoon excl. Alto, Klan, the crew of the Macross Quarter), so she had pretty extensive access to networks on Uroboros.  Uroboros's government happens to have a factory satellite at their disposal, which was used to manufacture all of the VFs you use in-game... and had carried out the limited production run of YF-29B's for Havamal.  It wouldn't take any great feat for her to pull a fast one and build an extra one or misappropriate one and cover it up, especially since she has mind control powers.

 

Just now, Sildani said:

And why did he take it at all?

Well, he kind of woke up in it... but wouldn't you?

 

Just now, Sildani said:

Thought Sharon would have just provoked his anger and disgust, rather than any conciliation. 

This version of Isamu was time-displaced during his fold jump to Earth.  All he'd seen of Sharon Apple at that point in his life was the concert that Jan took him to and the results of Jan's attempt to hack Sharon's system.  He hadn't seen her crazy side yet.

(Due to the timeframe in which he was punted forward to 2060, Guld, who was following him, is also alive and present on Uroboros and as cheerful as ever.)