The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Bolt]

While searching around for interesting VF squadrons, I came across this.

Is this just a Kawamori concept? Or something that may be canon?

Edited May 16, 2019 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

34 minutes ago, Bolt said:

While searching around for interesting VF squadrons, I came across this.

Is this just a Kawamori concept? Or something that may be canon?

Those are late drafts of the YF-19 design from the development of Macross Plus, from Shoji Kawamori's Macross Design Works book (page 080).

There's a brief comment on how the drafts evolved between September '93 and February '94 as Kawamori explored different designs for the position and shape of the engines and the canards.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[Seto Kaiba]

Incidentally, for interesting squadrons, I would recommend This is Animation Special: Macross Plus (OVA Ver.) and the Variable Fighter Master File books.  That's where a lot of the info about squadrons and paint schemes are.

[Bolt]

Very cool. Thanks again!

Also thanks for the tip on squadrons, I need to get those books! Until then it’s google..

[Bolt]

So , I’ll be been scouring online for interesting squadrons and came across THIS...

What IS this Vajra craziness??

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

5 minutes ago, Bolt said:

So , I’ll be been scouring online for interesting squadrons and came across THIS...

What IS this Vajra craziness??

Well... long story short, it's an aggressor aircraft for combat training.

Long story not-so-short... after the Macross Frontier fleet's local New UN Forces got their clocks cleaned a few times by the Vajra in March of 2059, one of the many measures they took to improve their readiness was to use the combat data they'd collected to start Dissimilar Air Combat Training (DACT) of their VF-171 pilots against simulated Vajra foes.

To facilitate this, four VF-25A/MF25 Messiahs were modified to reproduce the Vajra's maneuvering characteristics and designated VF-25VJ "Vajra Aggressor" to serve as Vajra stand-ins.  The four VF-25VJ Vajra Aggressors were assigned to the fleet's 6th Combat Training Squadron "Red Bugs" to serve as DACT opponents for the fleet's VF-171 pilots.  Once the Vajra realized the NUNS started adapting to their normal maneuvers they started mixing it up, and the VF-25VJs were further modified to replicate the Vajra's fold wave patterns to also serve as aircraft for anti-Vajra ECM/ECCM training.  The training itself proved to be too dangerous, and the four VF-25VJ airframes were eventually returned to their original VF-25A/MF25 specification.

[Bolt]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The training itself proved to be too dangerous, and the four VF-25VJ airframes were eventually returned to their original VF-25A/MF25 specification.

Too dangerous?

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

Too dangerous?

They don't specify how.

[Sildani]

Probably instantaneous g-forces beyond what the ISC could handle. I seem to recall someone saying the Vajra were unbelievably maneuverable. 

[Master Dex]

They're built tough (definitely more than Ford tough), with even their organs being hardy so they can accelerate like crazy and not have everything turn into jelly.. that or they have a natural ISC of their own.. which is not hard to believe considering all the tech that is based on them originally as it is.

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Probably instantaneous g-forces beyond what the ISC could handle. I seem to recall someone saying the Vajra were unbelievably maneuverable. 

Yeah, it's stated a number of times that the Vajra's abilities are on par or better than the typical 5th Generation VF's.

It's also possible that they were afraid of encouraging the Vajra to change up their tactics in response to the NUNS changing up its own.

 

2 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

They're built tough (definitely more than Ford tough), with even their organs being hardy so they can accelerate like crazy and not have everything turn into jelly.. that or they have a natural ISC of their own.. which is not hard to believe considering all the tech that is based on them originally as it is.

The Vajra may be cheating the whole g-forces issue, given that they get around using reactionless flight via gravity manipulation instead of by thrust... their tails are one big gravity controller.

[Bolt]

24 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Probably instantaneous g-forces beyond what the ISC could handle. I seem to recall someone saying the Vajra were unbelievably maneuverable. 

Ah so. Too many Guld like deaths..

[Bolt]

Hello again

Concerning my recent obsession with VF and destroid squadrons, names and markings..

From what I gather the following designations are as follows..

SVF- Fighter squadron

SVA- Attack squadron

SVC & SVFC- Composite Squadrons

SVAW- Airbone early warning squad

SVFM-Marine units

CV-?

VAW-?

 I am aware of the well shown SVC-8 Blue Roses. From what I understand, there’s also the SVC-113 “Starhunters”, and the SVFC-222 “Valkyries.” Are there other composite squadrons in the Macross universe I’m missing?

And, really, what does a “composite” squadron look like? Is it still all VF’s ? Would they be squadrons made up of other squads who’ve taken such heavy losses, they’re reformed into SVC’s?

Attack Squadrons are different in what regard from Fighter Squadrons?

Edited June 2, 2019 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

Concerning my recent obsession with VF and destroid squadrons, names and markings..

From what I gather the following designations are as follows..

The UN Navy, and presumably New UN Navy, seem to use the US Navy's aircraft squadron designation system pretty much as it is today.  The UN Spacy and New UN Spacy literally just stick an S in front of the Navy designation for a Spacy squadron of the same type.  It's one of the overt Navy touches in the Spacy's organization.

The UN Marine Corps, and presumably New UN Marine Corps, use the US Marine Corps's aircraft squadron designation system as-is, while the Spacy Marine Corps just sticks an S in front of it.

So, essentially, Navy squadron designations are V[Mission], Marine Corps are VM[Mission], Spacy squadrons are SV[Mission], and Spacy Marine Corps squadrons are SVM[Mission].

The mission letters in use include (and squadrons can have more than one as follows):

A: Attacker
AQ: Electronic Attacker
AW: Airborne Early Warning
C: Composite
F: Fighter
FA: Strike Fighter
FC: Fighter Composite
P: Patrol
PU: Patrol (Special Unit)
R: Logistical Support (Personnel)
RC: Logistical Support (Cargo)
RM: Logistical Support (Multimission)
T: Training
UP: Unmanned Patrol
Q: Fleet Reconnaissance
X: Air Test and Evaluation

 

 

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

SVC & SVFC- Composite Squadrons

SVC would be a Spacy composite squadron, while SVFC would be a Spacy fighter composite squadron.

 

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

SVFM-Marine units

SVMF would a Spacy Marine Corps fighter squadron.

 

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

CV-?

That's the hull classification symbol for an Aircraft Carrier.

Contrary to popular belief, the CV doesn't stand for "Carrier Vessel" but for "Cruiser (Voler)" with "voler" being the French for "to fly".  Early aircraft carriers were converted cruisers, and the designation stuck because if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

VAW-?

That'd be a Navy airborne early warning squadron.

 

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

 I am aware of the well shown SVC-8 Blue Roses. From what I understand, there’s also the SVC-113 “Starhunters”, and the SVFC-222 “Valkyries.” Are there other composite squadrons in the Macross universe I’m missing?

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah had that one Macross Frontier fleet NUNS composite squadron that the VF-25VJ was built for... how official those are, I can't say.

 

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

And, really, what does a “composite” squadron look like? Is it still all VF’s ? Would they be squadrons made up of other squads who’ve taken such heavy losses, they’re reformed into SVC’s?

"Composite squadron" has had a couple different meanings over the last century, but for most intents and purposes a composite squadron is an administrative catch-all for any unit that's operating a mixture of different types of aircraft for whatever role.

Originally, composite squadrons were squadrons assigned to the smaller escort carriers and helped balance the ship's capabilities by operating a mixture of fighters, dive bombers, and torpedo bombers.  

Later on, it became "miscellaneous" in everything but literal name when the usage was changed to be an administrative designation for groups of detachments from various specialist units like photoreconnaissence aircraft, early warning planes, adversary training units, and so on.

Fighter Composite squadrons (VFC/SVFC) are specialist units that assist in simulated air combat training exercises by standing in for hostiles.

They're not designated as composite squadrons, but the protagonist unit from Macross Digital Mission VF-X and the Ravens from the sequel Macross VF-X2 are a lot like your classic (WW2-era) composite squadrons in that they operate a mix of fighters, fighter-bombers, and even a bomber from small aircraft carriers like the Valhalla III or Saratoga II.

Exactly what interpretation of "composite squadron" Macross is using for the units designated SVC (if they officially exist at all) is unclear since the ones mentioned are First Space War-era units where there aren't a multitude of different models to fly.

 

7 hours ago, Bolt said:

Attack Squadrons are different in what regard from Fighter Squadrons?

Fighter squadrons are responsible for conducting air-to-air combat.

Attack squadrons are responsible for air-to-ground or air-to-surface combat, like close air support of ground troops, anti-submarine warfare, bombing runs on enemy ships, suppression of enemy air defenses, etc.

Strike Fighter squadrons do both.

[Bolt]

Thanks @Seto Kaiba that massively expands my understanding. I’ll be copying and pasting your response into my notes.

About Destroids.. based on the “resists default translation..” thread ,  my current understanding is that those are catagorized into more army based squads. Such as heavy artillery or tanks would be. Is that correct? Is there a similar or overlapping system for Spacy Destroids ( ground to air, ground defense, etc.) that somewhat mirrors the Valkyrie system?

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

About Destroids.. based on the “resists default translation..” thread ,  my current understanding is that those are catagorized into more army based squads. Such as heavy artillery or tanks would be. Is that correct? Is there a similar or overlapping system for Spacy Destroids ( ground to air, ground defense, etc.) that somewhat mirrors the Valkyrie system?

Yeah, the lineart for the destroids in Super Dimension Fortress Macross and Macross: Do You Remember Love? has Army markings in the style of the US Army's World War II-vintage AR-850-5 system.

They have markings that go Δ#Δ_# scattered around the unit's body and a Army-style bumper number on the ankles opposite the UN Spacy marking.  Normally there would be another number in front of the first Δ to denote which Armored Division it belonged to, but that touch appears to be absent from the Macross's destroids.

The ADR-04-Mk.X Defender is Δ5ΔG3/D-108231, indicating its unique bumper code is D-108231 and that it's from the 5th Armored, 3rd vehicle of G Company, in an unspecified number Armored Division.

The SDR-04-Mk.XII Phalanx is Δ10ΔS7/D-229194, indicating its unique bumper code is D-229194 and that it's the 10th Armored's 7th vehicle of S Company, in an unspecified number Armored Division.

The MBR-04-Mk.VI Tomahawk is Δ3ΔD7/D-210194, indicating its unique bumper code is D-210194 and that it's the 3rd Armored's 7th vehicle of D Company, in an unspecified number Armored Division.

The MBR-07-Mk.XII Spartan is Δ7ΔO2/D-330517, indicating its unique bumper code is D-330517 and that it's the 7th Armored's 2nd vehicle of O Company, in an unspecified number Armored Division.

The HWR-00-Mk.II Monster is the only one without a visible formation marking, bearing only the number 02.

 

How they'd be organized below company level is uncertain... since those formation markings only go down to the individual vehicle number within the company.  Assuming they're copying the US organization with a moderate level of fidelity, there ought to be (on average) 14 destroids to a Company, an average of 3 companies + 2 command units in a Battalion (44 destroids total), any anywhere from 6-24 Battalions in a Division, though 12 for light and 18 for heavy is typical.

With 587 Destroids, the Macross had enough for at least three Divisions.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[Bolt]

Very informative. Sankyuu!!

[Bolt]

Ok when did VF-1’s start sporting the new NUNS look?

And get new fast packs and upgraded missiles?

(when this book came out?)

Edited June 22, 2019 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

Ok when did VF-1’s start sporting the new NUNS look?

That's a question with a fuzzy answer... because the story isn't altogether consistent on when the "New UN" markings became a thing.

Variable Fighter Master File treats the New UN Forces as having come into existence at the same time as the New UN Government was inaugurated back in 2010.  Their version of the story has it that, when the New UN Government decided to update the New UN Forces' markings, Earth and the oldest emigrant planets dragged their heels on adopting them to hold onto the old UN Forces kites as long as possible out of a sense of patriotic pride.  They finally achieved universal adoption of the new markings in the 2050s, in the wake of the Second Unification War and the military reorganization that followed.

Official setting materials are a bit less consistent on that score.  Macross the Ride posits that the New UN Forces didn't exist until the military reorganization in 2051 after the failed Latence coup later referred to as the Second Unification War (Macross VF-X2).  This reasoning doesn't quite work because Ozma is shown flying a VF-171 with NUNS markings in 2048.

(Kawamori himself seems to have repeatedly forgotten that the New UN Government existed in the original series... which doesn't help.)

 

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

And get new fast packs and upgraded missiles?

(when this book came out?)

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Battroid Valkyrie, from whence this image comes, contends that large numbers of VF-1s were kept in military service for various reasons and were, over time, updated for compatibility with newer models of weaponry to streamline logistics.

Since that had never been alluded to before, the answer would technically be "When this book came out".

[Bolt]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Variable Fighter Master File treats the New UN Forces as having come into existence at the same time as the New UN Government was inaugurated back in 2010.  Their version of the story has it that, when the New UN Government decided to update the New UN Forces' markings, Earth and the oldest emigrant planets dragged their heels on adopting them to hold onto the old UN Forces kites as long as possible out of a sense of patriotic pride.  They finally achieved universal adoption of the new markings in the 2050s, in the wake of the Second Unification War and the military reorganization that followed.

I like this reason . Gives me an excuse to potentially use the new markings on my project.

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Since that had never been alluded to before, the answer would technically be "When this book came out".

Lol.. Evertime a new book comes out, they get to re tell Macross history a bit differently. Was there anything particularly new , like this in the VFMF VF-11 publication?

I haven’t gotten that one yet, I couldn’t read it even if I did though..

Thanks amigo

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Lol.. Evertime a new book comes out, they get to re tell Macross history a bit differently. Was there anything particularly new , like this in the VFMF VF-11 publication?

Well, it does help that Master File is not official setting material... they can take more liberties because anything they say about the timeline may or may not actually apply depending on Kawamori's mood and/or what they were serving for lunch in the cafeteria at Satelight that day.

That particular factoid is actually from the VF-25 Master File rather than the VF-1 Battroid Valkyrie one.  

Apart from clearing up one or two vague bits from the official setting line art like the "sensor" on the leading edge of the wing glove, the VF-11 Master File was mostly an unremarkable book that didn't push any particular envelopes and didnt do anything to rock the boat.  That it contained art of the VF-11 with both the old and new markings was not surprising given that the VF-11 Thunderbolt is known to have still been in the process of being phased out and decommissioned c.2058 even in the wealthier fleets like Macross Frontier (MtR).

[Bolt]

..Word.

Here’s another nooner. I’m aware of the HWar-00-MK2Monster - SDFM amd Macross Plus. And , apparently there was the  MK1 - Macross Zero. 

Does this design fundamentally stay the same for so long or was phased out until we see the newly designed VB-6 König Variable Monster in Macros VF-X2 and later in Macross Frontier?

[sketchley]

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Battroid Valkyrie, from whence this image comes, contends that large numbers of VF-1s were kept in military service for various reasons and were, over time, updated for compatibility with newer models of weaponry to streamline logistics.

Since that had never been alluded to before, the answer would technically be "When this book came out".

"Officially" everything you said—except the parts about the FAST Pack shape—has been going on for decades.

For example, there's the VF-1X in MDM:VF-X and it's sequel VF-X2.  The VF-1X++ from MtR.  The anime has also been getting into the act with the VT-1C in MD7, and the VF-1EX in MD.

 

* Technically, VFMF:VF-1 Battroid Valkyrie contends that only a "few" of those VF-1 were from the original production runs.  So, Seto's "kept in service" comment should be interpreted as "continually replaced with newly produced models".

[JB0]

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

..Word.

Here’s another nooner. I’m aware of the HWar-00-MK2Monster - SDFM amd Macross Plus. And , apparently there was the  MK1 - Macross Zero. 

Does this design fundamentally stay the same for so long or was phased out until we see the newly designed VB-6 König Variable Monster in Macros VF-X2 and later in Macross Frontier?

I'm sure the usual suspects will chime in with a more comprehensive answer, but I gather it was a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", followed by "If we're fixin' it, give it wings".

Valks filled a lot of roles the other destroids were built for, but "transporting and firing guns larger than a Valkyrie" wasn't one they were capable of handling.

 

Though I believe the Monster in Plus was retired, just because they don't usually blow up useful hardware.

Edited June 23, 2019 by JB0

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

So, Seto's "kept in service" comment should be interpreted as "continually replaced with newly produced models".

How long into it were VF-1** ‘s being produced for military service?

23 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Though I believe the Monster in Plus was retired, just because they don't usually blow up useful hardware.

Oh I believe it. Probably was totally decommissioned. But at the time of M+, what was replacing it, if anything?

I believe that cannon fodder monster was probably an older production run, but were new(ish) models still in service and even on the production bench?

[JB0]

14 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Oh I believe it. Probably was totally decommissioned. But at the time of M+, what was replacing it, if anything?

I believe that cannon fodder monster was probably an older production run, but were new(ish) models still in service and even on the production bench?

Seems like the VB-6 was being fielded around the time of +. I'd guess that was what put ye olde Monster out to pasture. They were probably decomissioning the fixed-mode destroids as they took VB-6 deliveries... which I guess means that the big guys stayed in operation on the colony worlds and fleets for years and years.

Doesn't look like the big guy saw any major upgrade aside from the mark 2, so it woulda been looking pretty dated. No hundreds-of-megawatts reactor means no energy-converting armor or beam cannons or rail guns were plausible, though they'd all be desirable updates. Just good ol'-fashioned explosive propellants and real armor plating(and shock absorbers like you ain't never seen).

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Here’s another nooner. I’m aware of the HWar-00-MK2Monster - SDFM amd Macross Plus. And , apparently there was the  MK1 - Macross Zero. 

Does this design fundamentally stay the same for so long or was phased out until we see the newly designed VB-6 König Variable Monster in Macros VF-X2 and later in Macross Frontier?

As far as we know, Destroids in general seem to have fallen out of favor with the (New) UN Forces in the decade or so following the First Space War.

Apart from a unit or two that end up in enemy hands in April 2030, the only times we see a Monster outside of the later VB-6 Konig Monster is when a Mk.II unit was used as a static target for live fire testing of the YF-19-2's optional weapon packages in 2040 and a unit that'd been surplussed out of service and given to its now-elderly former crew in Macross 7.

(Unless you want to count the Gjagravan Va and Annabella Lasiodora from Macross VF-X2, there don't seem to have been any new Destroid designs developed after the First Space War... just some ad-hoc upgrades and modernizations of 50 year old designs like the Cheyenne II and the Macross Galaxy fleet's Super Defender.)

 

 

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

"Officially" everything you said—except the parts about the FAST Pack shape—has been going on for decades.

For example, there's the VF-1X in MDM:VF-X and it's sequel VF-X2.  The VF-1X++ from MtR.  The anime has also been getting into the act with the VT-1C in MD7, and the VF-1EX in MD.

Apart from the vanilla VF-1X - allegedly a 2018 vintage service life extension update - those were essentially Special Forces-only limited updates to the VF-1 Valkyrie or units built specifically for the civilian market.

They weren't what Master File is talking about in the Battroid Valkyrie book WRT the VF-1 remaining in frontline service as a main variable fighter for... reasons.

 

Quote

* Technically, VFMF:VF-1 Battroid Valkyrie contends that only a "few" of those VF-1 were from the original production runs.  So, Seto's "kept in service" comment should be interpreted as "continually replaced with newly produced models".

Master File flipflops a bit on that, like a bunch of the VF-1P's having allegedly been made by updating mothballed VF-1's.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Bolt said:

How long into it were VF-1** ‘s being produced for military service?

Mass production of the VF-1 Valkyrie ended in late 2015.

Existing units were modernized over time and limited numbers of new units were built to order thereafter.  Shinsei Industry delivered the VF-1X+ in 2047, which is the latest one we have a firm date for in official setting materials.  The VF-1X++ is supposedly an aftermarket improvement of the VF-1X+. 

Master File added a VF-1Z in the Battroid Valkyrie book that is apparently a further improvement on the VF-1X+, which also serves as the basis for conversion into the VF-1EX type seen in the Macross Delta series in its version of things.  Whether that's applicable to the official setting is unknown.

We don't know if the VF-1EX was used by the New UN Forces, but if it was and it was a factory build rather than an aftermarket modification, it would bump that from 2047 into the 2060s.

Shinsei is, however, still building the VF-1 Valkyrie for civilian markets - like the VT-1 Ostrich and VF-1C Civilian Valkyrie - apparently well into the 2050s if not beyond.

 

Quote

Oh I believe it. Probably was totally decommissioned. But at the time of M+, what was replacing it, if anything?

The VB-6 Konig Monster, which entered production in 2032.

 

Quote

I believe that cannon fodder monster was probably an older production run, but were new(ish) models still in service and even on the production bench?

None that we've seen... the last model we know of was the Mk.II that came into service prior to the First Space War.

The only ones we've seen used in actual combat were the retirees decommissioned unit in Macross 7 (2045) where they failed miserably at hitting anything and downed a large-ish building in the process, and the pair of units deployed by terrorists on Bellfan in 2030 which had been upgraded with barrier systems which were downed by the prototype YF-11-2.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[sketchley]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They weren't what Master File is talking about in the Battroid Valkyrie book WRT the VF-1 remaining in frontline service as a main variable fighter for... reasons.

Again, something to be taken with a grain of salt.  Yes, they were frontline main fighters, but only on remote emigrant planets.  While emigrant fleets, the Earth defensive units, etc., used them in a frontline capacity, the book implies that they were one squadron (or was it only half a squadron?) out of hundreds (perhaps thousands) of squadrons of more modern VFs.

Perhaps the closest real world example is the modern propeller driven attack craft - the Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_314_Super_Tucano

 

Quote

Master File flipflops a bit on that, like a bunch of the VF-1P's having allegedly been made by updating mothballed VF-1's.

Weren't those upgrades apparently done in the late 2010's?

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, sketchley said:

Again, something to be taken with a grain of salt.  Yes, they were frontline main fighters, but only on remote emigrant planets.  While emigrant fleets, the Earth defensive units, etc., used them in a frontline capacity, the book implies that they were one squadron (or was it only half a squadron?) out of hundreds (perhaps thousands) of squadrons of more modern VFs.

Logistically, that doesn't make a ton of sense... by the time the VF-1X+ and VF-1Z are a thing, the New UN Forces have 2nd and 3rd Gen VFs that are being phased out.  Why keep a squadron of museum pieces around and combat-ready at that point?

 

16 hours ago, sketchley said:

Perhaps the closest real world example is the modern propeller driven attack craft - the Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_314_Super_Tucano

I'm not sure that's a great example, as the Super Turcano is a modern aircraft in every respect except for the turboprop engine it's using.

Bringing VF-1s along in the regular armed forces would be like bringing a platoon of old M4 Sherman tanks in your brigade of M1 Abrams MBTs, or having a squadron of old P-80 Shooting Stars in your carrier air wing alongside F/A-18F Super Hornets.

 

16 hours ago, sketchley said:

Weren't those upgrades apparently done in the late 2010's?

Yeah, allegedly as a mixture of refurbished early block machines and new builds.

[Bolt]

Another incoming noober...

Post space war one , Earth defense forces are surely making sure that Earth and the surrounding solar system is a steel trap for any would be hostile forces intent on invasion or annihilation. We know Earth itself is surrounded in a webwork of defensive satellites and perhaps several (?) fleets. And then there’s the moon guard. I’m not sure , but probably Mars is back up and running. But is  there a list or is it known how many bases ,out posts or defensive perimeters are holding it down throughput the Solar system? There must be several fleets throughout the system and what about the moons of Jupiter or Saturn?

And I’m aware , but haven’t looked up the details , that a Zentradi factor (or two?) have been “acquired “ along the way. Is said factory posting up in another system or is it somewhere within Earths Solar system?

[Seto Kaiba]

14 minutes ago, Bolt said:

We know Earth itself is surrounded in a webwork of defensive satellites and perhaps several (?) fleets.

Headed up by the Macross-13 under General Kim Kabirov, c.2059.

 

14 minutes ago, Bolt said:

And then there’s the moon guard.

Ja, like Apollo Base.  Hikaru was stationed there for a bit during the timeskip, IIRC.

 

14 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I’m not sure , but probably Mars is back up and running.

Gamlin's a Martian boy, born and raised, so yeah.  H.G. Wells City, represent!

 

14 minutes ago, Bolt said:

But is  there a list or is it known how many bases ,out posts or defensive perimeters are holding it down throughput the Solar system? There must be several fleets throughout the system and what about the moons of Jupiter or Saturn?

@sketchley has a reasonable list on the RPG section of his site.

http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Locations/Locations.php

 

14 minutes ago, Bolt said:

And I’m aware , but haven’t looked up the details , that a Zentradi factor (or two?) have been “acquired “ along the way. Is said factory posting up in another system or is it somewhere within Earths Solar system?

... several.

Twenty or so of the bloody things have been relocated to the Sol system, there's one orbiting Eden, one orbiting Uroboros, and one or two others I'm sure I've forgotten.

[Bolt]

Word up...Good stuff 

[sketchley]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Logistically, that doesn't make a ton of sense... by the time the VF-1X+ and VF-1Z are a thing, the New UN Forces have 2nd and 3rd Gen VFs that are being phased out.  Why keep a squadron of museum pieces around and combat-ready at that point?
 

I'm not defending the books logic.  I'm just pointing out what the book said. 

As per the book: it's something about the VF-1 being a really low threat level, and is used in a capacity to prevent the escalation of a conflict between belligerents.

As for the non New Unified Forces (Emigrant Planets, poorer fleets, etc.), it all comes down to cost.  The book even agrees on the point that the VF-1 isn't the best VF out there, however, it's still really good at what it was designed to do (intercept and battle Zentradi Mobile Weapons in regional conflicts).  And it fleshes that point out with those aforementioned remote, cash-strapped worlds (etc.) being able to afford either a handful of the latest VFs OR an air force's worth of VF-1's.

 

Again, I totally agree that the logic makes less sense for the Earth defensive fleet.  However, it's pretty sound for the remote planets.  I also really like the point they make where the VF-1 is overbuilt, and in someways, sturdier than more modern VFs (echoing the RL design ideology of skyscrapers, past to present.)

 

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I'm not sure that's a great example, as the Super Turcano is a modern aircraft in every respect except for the turboprop engine it's using.

Isn't that essentially what the VF-1Z constitutes?

 

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Bringing VF-1s along in the regular armed forces would be like bringing a platoon of old M4 Sherman tanks in your brigade of M1 Abrams MBTs, or having a squadron of old P-80 Shooting Stars in your carrier air wing alongside F/A-18F Super Hornets.

 

It appears you've neglected to consider the mission role from that exaggerated response.  Here's the line about the Super Tucano from that article that could be applied just as equally to the VF-1 in the 2060's: "was designed to be a low-cost system operated in low-threat environments."

Perhaps it would be more relevant if I asked:  Why has the US Airforce been using antique propeller driven aircraft to fight ISIS?  They have the F/A-18F, the F-35, the F-22, yet they've brought Bronco's out of retirement for that fight.

Edited June 24, 2019 by sketchley

[sketchley]

55 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

@sketchley has a reasonable list on the RPG section of his site.

http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Locations/Locations.php

 

Thanks for the plug.

Bolt, for Earth/Solar System specifically, see: http://sdfyodogawa.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Locations/Earth.php

Note: anything from the Official Macross Setting is in green (so, just skim and scan until you find green text).  Text in steel-blue comes from the VFMF books, etc.

Edited June 24, 2019 by sketchley

[Bolt]

Cheers Aaron!