The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Gotcha. What about the two fighters on the Vol. 2 cover? The custom VF-1 and the.....what the heck is the one on the right? Is that the "YF-25 Paladin Prophecy"?

Volume 1's cover is Hakuna Aoba's VF-1X++ Valkyrie Double Plus and Chelsea Scarlett's VF-19ACTIVE "Nothung".

Volume 2's cover is their respective "mid-season" upgrades... Chelsea Scarlett's YF-25 Prophecy w/ Paladin Pack (SPS-25P/MF25) and Hakuna Aoba's VF-0改 "Zeak", which is basically a VF-0 rebuilt with YF-25 parts.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Seto Kaiba
The input method editor and I are at war... and it's winning.

[Lorindor]

Short question: Which issue of Character Magazine covers the VAL-0B? An image of the front cover would help me with identify the issue further on. 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Lorindor said:

Short question: Which issue of Character Magazine covers the VAL-0B? An image of the front cover would help me with identify the issue further on. 

Spring or Summer 2004, IIRC.  It was one of a few designs trotted out for the Variable Fighter Experimental Requirements Review (VFERR) column.

[Sildani]

On 4/12/2018 at 7:32 PM, Sildani said:

What did the entire VF-1 program end up costing, again? I think you mentioned it before. 

It was overlooked, I think...

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, Sildani said:

It was overlooked, I think...

Ach, my bad.  The cost cited for development was $50 billion.

(That figure comes from the pre-DYRL? Sky Angels tech manual by Masahiro Chiba.)

Edited April 19, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[Sildani]

No biggie. So on par/a tad less than current fighter programs. I suppose when you have virtually the whole planet focused on a single task for the greater good stuff could get done for less. 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Sildani said:

No biggie. So on par/a tad less than current fighter programs. I suppose when you have virtually the whole planet focused on a single task for the greater good stuff could get done for less. 

Back when the book was written, that was a bank-breakingly massive, downright unreasonable sum for a development program... almost double what was projected for the first 5th Gen fighters, in the same way the individual unit cost of the VF-1 was a good 4-5 times what a modern fighter jet at the time was.

[SMS007]

On 4/17/2018 at 11:25 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Volume 1's cover is Hakuna Aoba's VF-1X++ Valkyrie Double Plus and Chelsea Scarlett's VF-19ACTIVE "Nothung".

Volume 2's cover is their respective "mid-season" upgrades... Chelsea Scarlett's YF-25 Prophecy w/ Paladin Pack (SPS-25P/MF25) and Hakuna Aoba's VF-0改 "Zeak", which is basically a VF-0 rebuilt with YF-25 parts.

What is the meaning of "Zeak"? I have never heard of this name before anywhere.

And that reminds me: if VF-19ACTIVE does not have "改" in its sub-model name, then are we to infer that there is an entire line of Nothung units?

Edited April 20, 2018 by SMS007

[ManhattanProject972]

6 hours ago, SMS007 said:

What is the meaning of "Zeak"? I have never heard of this name before anywhere.

 

Zeak probably comes from the zero in VF-0, as back in WWII the old A6M Zero was given the nickname Zeke by allied forces.

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, SMS007 said:

What is the meaning of "Zeak"? I have never heard of this name before anywhere.

Until @ManhattanProject972 pointed out the A6M Zero connection, I would've said "I have no idea"... since they romanized it "Zeak" in the Visual Book, it just sort of slipped by.

That would make it the second VF in that story to have a World War II name reference, the other being the VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei.  That one is a double reference to the Me 262 fighter version (Sturmvogel having been the fighter-bomber configuration) and Messerschmitt's Me 262 V9 Hochgeschwindigkeit (abbreviated HG, lit "high speed") series of test aircraft.

3 hours ago, ManhattanProject972 said:

Zeak probably comes from the zero in VF-0, as back in WWII the old A6M Zero was given the nickname Zeke by allied forces.

 

 

10 hours ago, SMS007 said:

And that reminds me: if VF-19ACTIVE does not have "改" in its sub-model name, then are we to infer that there is an entire line of Nothung units?

The usage of the kanji "改" (kai, lit. "revision") in a context like a vehicle's official designation/model number indicates what might commonly be called an aftermarket modification.

For example, Basara's VF-19改 "Fire Valkyrie" started out as a VF-19F¹ Excalibur before undergoing extensive modifications to be outfitted with Sound Force equipment.  Same as Ray's VF-17T改 and Mylene's VF-11MAXL改, which started out as stock VF-17T and VF-11MAXL units.  The VF-0改 Zeak that Hakuna Aoba received in Macross R was a VF-0 airframe that was extensively retrofitted using modern materials and parts from the YF-25 series.

改 wouldn't be used for a one-off or limited production VF that was built to different specs than the mass production model, because it was designed and built that way by the manufacturer.  Shinsei's VF-11MAXL Thunderbolt is an ace variant that's built to order for a particular pilot, but because it's delivered that way by the manufacturer it doesn't merit a 改.  The same goes for Chelsea Scarlett's VF-19ACTIVE Nothung.  It's a one-of-a-kind technology demonstrator, but because it was designed and built to that spec rather than being a VF-19 that was modified after the fact, it isn't a 改.  

There are a few cases of inconsistent usage.  Macross 2036 flipflops on referring to the upgraded VF-1 Valkyries the characters use as VF-1改 or VF-1R.  The 改 usage in that case is inappropriate, given that the VF-1R series (VF-1AR/JR/SR) is a production aircraft in its own right that's like the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet to the VF-1's F/A-18C/D.  Macross Delta's Siegfried units should properly have been designated VF-31改, since their backstory indicates Surya Aerospace delivered them as trial production VF-31As and they were subsequently modified by Xaos into their present forms.

 

1. Per Macross Chronicle Mechanic Sheet ALL 01B.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-19 Excalibur takes a different view, and asserts that it was a less heavily modified VF-19E Excalibur instead.

[SMS007]

12 hours ago, ManhattanProject972 said:

Zeak probably comes from the zero in VF-0, as back in WWII the old A6M Zero was given the nickname Zeke by allied forces.

 

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Until @ManhattanProject972 pointed out the A6M Zero connection, I would've said "I have no idea"... since they romanized it "Zeak" in the Visual Book, it just sort of slipped by.

That would make it the second VF in that story to have a World War II name reference, the other being the VF-22HG Schwalbe Zwei.  That one is a double reference to the Me 262 fighter version (Sturmvogel having been the fighter-bomber configuration) and Messerschmitt's Me 262 V9 Hochgeschwindigkeit (abbreviated HG, lit "high speed") series of test aircraft.

Oh wow, that makes a lot of sense.

Edited April 20, 2018 by SMS007

[SMS007]

Are we to assume that Surya Aerospace, the joint venture company that manufactured the VF-31, takes its name from the Arabic name of Syria?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, SMS007 said:

Are we to assume that Surya Aerospace, the joint venture company that manufactured the VF-31, takes its name from the Arabic name of Syria?

As far as I know, it's a reference to the sanskrit word for the Sun which is also the name of the Hindu sun god.

This may have something to do with one of the partners being "Bharat", which is the Hindi name of the country/region the west calls India.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[SMS007]

23 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As far as I know, it's a reference to the sanskrit word for the Sun which is also the name of the Hindu sun god.

This may have something to do with one of the partners being "Bharat", which is the Hindi name of the country/region the west calls India.

Oh right, now I remember reading this before. Thanks, Seto Kaiba.

And on a different subject, what is the naming intent behind the (フェイオス・バルキリー) Feios Valkyrie? All Google gives me for "Feios" is some minor village in Norway.

And is that a typo on the MMM page where it says Timothy Daldhanton was a member of Vindirance?

Edited April 23, 2018 by SMS007

[NZEOD]

So... whats the ACTIVE referring to in the vf19?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, SMS007 said:

And on a different subject, what is the naming intent behind the (フェイオス・バルキリー) Feios Valkyrie? All Google gives me for "Feios" is some minor village in Norway.

I have absolutely no idea.  I'd love to know, since all my notes say is that it was selected by a fan contest. 

There are some amusing potential linguistic answers.  "Feios" is Portuguese for "Ugly", and there's no denying it's certainly that.

 

3 hours ago, SMS007 said:

And is that a typo on the MMM page where it says Timothy Daldhanton was a member of Vindirance?

Must be... Timothy Daldhanton was the leader of Black Rainbow, and the one who clued the VF-X Ravens into the fact that Gilliam was still alive and that Latence was a thing.

 

 

3 minutes ago, NZEOD said:

So... whats the ACTIVE referring to in the vf19?

Advanced Control Technology for Integrated ValkyriEs.

It's a nod to the F-15 STOL/MTD and F-15 ACTIVE.

The VF-19ACTIVE "Nothung" was a technology demonstrator Shinsei Industry and L.A.I. built in the Macross Frontier fleet to prove out certain technologies intended to go into the YF-25 Prophecy and VF-25 Messiah.

[sketchley]

6 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Oh right, now I remember reading this before. Thanks, Seto Kaiba.

And on a different subject, what is the naming intent behind the (フェイオス・バルキリー) Feios Valkyrie? All Google gives me for "Feios" is some minor village in Norway.

And is that a typo on the MMM page where it says Timothy Daldhanton was a member of Vindirance?

Note that Feios is just one possible transliteration.

Pheyos Valkyrie is another (more?) common way to refer to that VF.

[SMS007]

What is the plot of the first Macross Digital Mission: VF-X game? I know Macross VF-X2 is about the Vindirance-Lactence conflict of 2050-2051.

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, SMS007 said:

What is the plot of the first Macross Digital Mission: VF-X game? I know Macross VF-X2 is about the Vindirance-Lactence conflict of 2050-2051.

On 23 July 2047 at 1920 hours Earth standard time, the idol group Milky Dolls were kidnapped from a performance at an Earth UN Forces memorial event and taken as hostages to the abandoned New UN Government colony world of Elysium by a Zentradi anti-government group whose leader seeks a return to a life of pure warfare.  The New UN Forces brass dispatch the NUNS Special Forces stealth carrier VCV-551 Valhalla III on a mission to rescue the Milky Dolls. ("Operation Orpheus") 

All told, the rescue mission spans eight events (after the tutorial)... destroying the enemy's ground-based radar, wiping out a power generation satellite, destroying the enemy's ground base, a brief spot of mopping up enemy air forces, intercepting an enemy attack on the Valhalla III, downing an enemy transport and destroying their weapons plant, mopping up enemy forces left inside the old colony city, and finally taking out the enemy's HQ in an old mobile fortress.

 

EDIT: Names are a bit of a sticky wicket, since the protagonist's name is whatever the player decides to enter...

Edited April 29, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[SMS007]

Are the 727th Ravens not involved in the first VF-X2 game then?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Are the 727th Ravens not involved in the first VF-X2 game then?

Nope, it's some other (smaller) New UN Spacy Special Forces unit with a Your-Name-Here protagonist who has no dialog.

[SMS007]

19 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Nope, it's some other (smaller) New UN Spacy Special Forces unit with a Your-Name-Here protagonist who has no dialog.

Cool!

[Lexomatic]

When speaking of "setting materials" -- the written content that provides background (cultural, character, mechanical) to the anime -- Seto Kaiba et al have frequently alluded to Macross Chronicle (official), Variable Fighter Master File (fan-produced), and others. In terms of canonicity, it's like comparing The ST:TNG Technical Manual by Sternbach and Okuda to Starfleet Dynamics (1991) by "Starfleet Academy Training Command."

My question: Is there a full list of such reference works (or titled series of works), what form they take (book, mook, pages you put in a binder, etc.), and who they're written by (fan circle name, specific author, etc.)?

I've acquired a few of these on prior trips to Japan (browsing the BookOff chain can be tremendously useful), and since I'm travelling again in early June, I'm wondering what I should be looking for. (Paper is heavy, and airline baggage allowance is finite.)

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Lexomatic said:

When speaking of "setting materials" -- the written content that provides background (cultural, character, mechanical) to the anime -- Seto Kaiba et al have frequently alluded to Macross Chronicle (official), Variable Fighter Master File (fan-produced), and others.

The Variable Fighter Master File series of books are NOT fan-produced.  The series is published by Softbank Creative, the same publisher behind Gundam's Master Archive series, and Shoji Kawamori is credited as providing supervision for their creation.

The Master File books are official publications, but they self-disclaim as not being official setting material ("non-canon").

 

1 hour ago, Lexomatic said:

In terms of canonicity, it's like comparing The ST:TNG Technical Manual by Sternbach and Okuda to Starfleet Dynamics (1991) by "Starfleet Academy Training Command."

Bad analogy.  Star Trek doesn't consider ANY of its technical manuals or encyclopedias canon, even ones on which production staff collaborated.  (Ever since Gene Roddenberry had his falling-out with Franz Joseph, the author of the first Star Trek tech manual.)

Star Wars, I understand, is more this speed where there are publications that run the gambit from totally non-canon to valid supplementary material for the film canon.

 

1 hour ago, Lexomatic said:

My question: Is there a full list of such reference works (or titled series of works), what form they take (book, mook, pages you put in a binder, etc.), and who they're written by (fan circle name, specific author, etc.)?

Not really, no... there's so much material that an exhaustive list would be next to impossible to compose.  A reasonably complete list of series artbooks wouldn't be a tall order, but there are so many books and mooks and magazines with creator interviews and so on that it defies exhaustive listing.)  The main MacrossWorld.com page has an out-of-date listing with a bunch of the older (pre-Frontier) artbooks though.

The big ones to get are books like Macross Perfect Memory, the Macross: Do You Remember Love? Data Bank (AKA "Gold Book"), This is Animation 3, 5, 7, 11, Special #5, and the volumes for Macross Plus and Macross 7, the Macross Frontier movie artbooks, Macross Chronicle (81 volumes), Variable Fighter Master File (VF-0, VF-1, VF-1 Vol.2, Squadrons, VF-4, VF-19, VF-22, VF-25, VF-31), the Design Works books for Kawamori and Miyatake, etc.

[sketchley]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not really, no... there's so much material that an exhaustive list would be next to impossible to compose.  A reasonably complete list of series artbooks wouldn't be a tall order, but there are so many books and mooks and magazines with creator interviews and so on that it defies exhaustive listing.)  The main MacrossWorld.com page has an out-of-date listing with a bunch of the older (pre-Frontier) artbooks though.

 

As he said, with the following guidelines (which hasn't been updated in ages...): http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/topic/34738-macross-official-setting-and-the-expanded-universe/

 

[SMS007]

What’s the difference between Black Rainbow and Vindirance in Macross VF-X2?

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, SMS007 said:

What’s the difference between Black Rainbow and Vindirance in Macross VF-X2?

Vindirance and Black Rainbow are both anti-government paramilitary organizations that oppose the New UN Government's excessive interference in the domestic affairs of its member nations/planets and don't engage in illegal (read: "terrorist") military actions.  They're both essentially anti-Latence organizations that Latence's information manipulation has branded as terrorist organizations.

The key area of difference between the two organizations is, as I understand it, whether they work with the anti-Latence factions inside the New UN Forces or stand alone.

Black Rainbow is a predominantly Zentradi anti-government organization that uses mainly Zentradi military hardware.  It's led by former special forces top ace Timothy Daldhanton, hailed as the "All Kill Wizard", and largely operates without the support of anti-Latence forces within the NUNF.

Vindirance is a predominantly human anti-government organization using mainly NUNF hardware obtained via back channels from emigrant planets.  It's led by Mariafokina Barnrose, allegedly an alias of Therese Jenius, and it both collaborates with and operates with support from the various anti-Latence factions inside the New UN Forces and New UN Gov't.

[Focslain]

So after looking over the Macross Quarter toy I got I was wondering. If a toy of the Macross Elyison from Delta was made in the same scale as the Quarter, how bigger/smaller would it be?

Bonus question: How would a toy of the Macross cannon from II compare?

Edited June 14, 2018 by Focslain

[Seto Kaiba]

21 minutes ago, Focslain said:

So after looking over the Macross Quarter toy I got I was wondering. If a toy of the Macross Elyison from Delta was made in the same scale as the Quarter, how bigger/smaller would it be?

According to Scorched Earth Toys, the Bandai DX Chogokin SMS Macross Quarter stands about 36cm (~14") tall in Storming Attack mode... making it about 1/878 scale.  The one official figure we've had for the Macross Elysion puts its height at approximately 830m in-universe (cited as being roughly the same height as the Burj Khalifa in Dubai) in Storming Attack mode.  That would mean a toy Macross Elysion in the same scale would be 94.55cm (37") tall... just a hair over three feet.

 

21 minutes ago, Focslain said:

Bonus question: How would a toy of the Macross cannon from II compare?

The only way you're getting a 1/878 scale Macross Cannon-class gunboat from Macross II: Lovers Again into your house is by demolishing a wall.  Quite possibly several walls.  To put the size here into perspective, this hypothetical toy would have roughly the same length and width as the RAM 4500 or 5500 heavy duty work truck (which are 668cm long) and significantly larger than a typical six-seater minivan (the Chrysler Pacifica is 517cm long).

At that scale, the Macross Cannon-class toy would be 683.5cm long (22'5") in Fortress mode, and would stand 455.7cm (14'11.5") tall and long in Storming Attack mode.  I don't even want to think what a toy that big would weigh, quite possibly similar to a small car.

(The Macross Cannon-class gunboats in Macross II: Lovers Again are canonically 6,000m long in Warship mode and 4,000m long/tall in Storming Attack mode... fitting, as they're made from four DYRL-type Zentradi Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleships.)

[Sildani]

So... it takes four N-V’s to make one Macross Cannon, or four N-V’s were used to make four Cannon-class vessels? I’m dense today. 

[Focslain]

4 minutes ago, Sildani said:

So... it takes four N-V’s to make one Macross Cannon, or four N-V’s were used to make four Cannon-class vessels? I’m dense today. 

Four N-V's to make one cannon. Technically if I remember correctly there was only three in the OVA.

And thank you @Seto Kaiba for the answer, guess having a toy of the Elysion will be on a smaller scale then the Quarter, but dang that give a bit of scale to all the other Macross' in the franchise.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Focslain

[Seto Kaiba]

15 minutes ago, Sildani said:

So... it takes four N-V’s to make one Macross Cannon, or four N-V’s were used to make four Cannon-class vessels? I’m dense today. 

Each Macross Cannon-class gunboat is made by modifying four Zentradi Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleships to massively uprate their heavy converging beam cannons, then tying them to a scratch-built central body.  Each Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class ship forms one of the barrels that make up the Macross Cannon-class's anti-fleet heavy converging beam cannon battery.

 

11 minutes ago, Focslain said:

Four N-V's to make one cannon. Technically if I remember correctly there was only three in the OVA.

Dialog in the Macross II: Lovers Again OVA indicated that the UN Spacy forces in the Sol system had at least six Macross Cannon-class gunboats for system defense c.2092.  Four were deployed to stop the Mardook fleet's big push and were subsequently lost in combat when the fleet's defenses ended up overwhelmed.  Two more were held back as a mobile reserve, and participated in destroying the Mardook mobile fortress at the end of the OVA.

Securing the necessary Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class ships to build Macross Cannon-class gunboats was probably not an issue, since the UN Government in Macross II: Lovers Again's timeline possessed at least two Zentradi factory satellites and had defeated five Zentradi Army main fleets and two Meltrandi Army main fleets by that point in time.

Other dialog from their first appearance suggests that each Macross Cannon-class ship had roughly enough firepower to one-shot a Zentradi Army branch fleet.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[JB0]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Other dialog from their first appearance suggests that each Macross Cannon-class ship had roughly enough firepower to one-shot a Zentradi Army branch fleet.

DE KULCHA!!

I love how overbuilt the MC class is. Though ... how big is the crew on one of those behemoths?

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, JB0 said:

I love how overbuilt the MC class is. Though ... how big is the crew on one of those behemoths?

Unfortunately we don't know.  Probably not very large, considering the Macross Cannon-class ships were designed and built as dedicated anti-fleet gunboats rather than the fleet flagship supercarrier-battleship hybrid that the older Macross-class and main continuity's Battle-class were.  They're the space warship version of an A-10 Thunderbolt... a set of engines and support systems built around an unreasonably massive gun as a way of getting that gun into range of whomever the brass have decided needs to have their sh*t wrecked.

[HardlyNever]

Does anyone know the name of the song that you can hear here?  I'm rewatching SDFM, and it appears all over the place, but I've gone through this entire OST and I can't find it in there.  I'm guessing that isn't a complete OST?  Or I'm missing it, somehow.

Anyhow, can anyone name that tune?

Edited June 28, 2018 by HardlyNever