The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[sketchley]

17 hours ago, Sir Galahad® said:

Like right now, let's assume that someone buys an old F-4 Phantom for personal use. What would he use it for?

The only thing that I'd like to add to Seto's reply to your question is:

In universe, GERWALK is considered to be akin to an attack helicopter.  So, if you consider Valkyries to be like the Macross version of civilian helicopters, it helps get over the "why are high powered jet fighters being sold to..." disbelief.

Anyhow, in the spirit of civilian used Valkyries, I came up with a variant myself - a logging VF: https://studiootaking.deviantart.com/art/VT-1CS-Silviculture-Valkyrie-603579148

 

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, SMS007 said:

What about the Fire Valkyrie-colored VF-1 used in Ranka's concert in Sayonara no Tsubasa? Was that a real, working fighter or just some holographic projection?

Offhand, I don't recall if its status is ever explicitly discussed in the context of the Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa film... the film's novelization, however, does confirm that it is a real, working VF-1 Valkyrie.  It's described as being a VF-1X++, presumably it's something somone acquired from a military disposal sale since the VF-1X++ is a New UN Spacy Special Forces-issue variant that is actually meant to capitalize on the ubiquitousness of civilian market VF-1 derivatives to be as inconspicuous as a thirteen meter tall robot can be.

(Another civilian owner of a VF-1X++ is Hakuna Aoba, one of the main characters from Macross the Ride, whose ride as a Vanquish League air racer was a custom VF-1X++ until it was destroyed and replaced by the VF-0 Custom "Zeak", which is essentially a YF-25 thinly disguised as a VF-0.)

 

3 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Could be either honestly knowing their holography powers. That said the VF-1 on the top of Mihoshi Academy is apparently flight capable.. at least according to one manga....

Exactly what the VF-1 on top of Mihoshi Academy's roof is varies from version to version.

In the Macross Frontier animation it's a VF-1A-6 or later done up with the markings of Hikaru Ichijo's Skull 11 from Macross: Do You Remember Love?.  In the manga where it's depicted as a still-functional fighter, it's a VF-1J-4 or VF-1J-5 like Hikaru's VF-1J from the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series.

 

[RedWolf]

On 12/16/2017 at 5:18 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

They use 市長 (Shichou, lit. "Mayor") for Milia and 大統領 (Daitouryou, "President") for Howard Glass.  Presumably this has something to do with the reduction in New UN Government direct control over the emigrant fleets and/or the scale of their respective emigrant fleets.

In one comedic episode of Macross 7 PLUS, Milia's sort of pitching herself and her amazing abilities as a soldier and administrator (and other merits) to the audience and ends by calling herself "Milia the President" (in conspicuous English).

 

It is a bit of a slog, isn't it?

Macross Two-Nine also has a Mayor. Macross Chronicle does mention the setup of fleet government can be different fleet to fleet.

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, RedWolf said:

Macross Two-Nine also has a Mayor. Macross Chronicle does mention the setup of fleet government can be different fleet to fleet.

We don't know how big Macross-29 is, though... probably not very, given that it abolished its own military contingent.  That alone might account for the government's chief executive being a mayor rather than a president.

What Chronicle was referring to was cases like Macross Galaxy, which doesn't even have a democratic government and is run as a corporation instead.

[SMS007]

Just how many are involved in the Macross Galaxy fleet, anyway? Do we know any others besides General Galaxy?

[RedWolf]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

We don't know how big Macross-29 is, though... probably not very, given that it abolished its own military contingent.  That alone might account for the government's chief executive being a mayor rather than a president.

What Chronicle was referring to was cases like Macross Galaxy, which doesn't even have a democratic government and is run as a corporation instead.

Still applicable as last we saw being chief executive in Macross 7 Fleet doesn't have a supreme commander position in military forces. In Macross Frontier's case the President is also supreme commander. Macross Galaxy besides being run by an executive board has their NUNS contingent also called Macross Galaxy Corporate Army.

If we go by the Glossary linking Max to Vindirance he still has that position in 2050 to 2051 presumably giving support. Macross VF-X2 is a more significant event than we thought as it is referenced in Macross Delta Mini-Theatre ep 9 and Macross Delta Vol 2 Windermere Aerial Knights. Gramia being a Vindirance pilot and Ernest Johnson worked for both Black Rainbow and Lactence. Ukyo dubs it Unification War 2.

4 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Just how many are involved in the Macross Galaxy fleet, anyway? Do we know any others besides General Galaxy?

As far as we know General Galaxy had a hand in its funding.  Critical Path Corporation is associated with General Galaxy in Black Market activities. Critical Path Corporation president Manfred Brando was research director of the 117th Research Fleet discovering the properties of Fold Quartz in 2043, inventor of the Zauber Flute and also one of the personalities in Grace O'Connor's head even if he died in 2051.

I find it curious Epsilon Foundation bought Sv Works from General Galaxy and also installed the Zauber Flute on the Sigur Valens. Berger Stone figured out what Roid was doing with the network. Roid's plan is similar to Macross Galaxy's.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by RedWolf

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Just how many are involved in the Macross Galaxy fleet, anyway? Do we know any others besides General Galaxy?

As far as we know, just one... General Galaxy.

The way it's been described, the Macross Galaxy mainland ship was essentially run as a self-contained branch or subsidiary of the General Galaxy corporation.  It was sort of like a dystopian version of Walt Disney's EPCOT concept, being a corporate-run techno-futurist community that functioned as a spaceborne R&D facility for its parent company where development and testing of highly controversial and/or bleeding edge secret technology could be done largely uninterrupted.

It probably wasn't intended to be a dystopia, and probably didn't start out that way, but once the large-scale implementation of implant technology enabled the execs to mind control the populace there really wasn't anything stopping them from turning it into a cost-effective hellhole.

 

8 hours ago, RedWolf said:

Still applicable as last we saw being chief executive in Macross 7 Fleet doesn't have a supreme commander position in military forces. In Macross Frontier's case the President is also supreme commander.

Milia may have been, she just is never seen taking a direct role in military operations until Operation Stargazer... much like how President Glass left the NUNS fleetmaster to run things.

 

8 hours ago, RedWolf said:

If we go by the Glossary linking Max to Vindirance he still has that position in 2050 to 2051 presumably giving support. Macross VF-X2 is a more significant event than we thought as it is referenced in Macross Delta Mini-Theatre ep 9 and Macross Delta Vol 2 Windermere Aerial Knights. Gramia being a Vindirance pilot and Ernest Johnson worked for both Black Rainbow and Lactence. Ukyo dubs it Unification War 2.

We've known for ages that Macross VF-X2 was a significant story, it plays a big role in Macross R, Macross 30, and via novels it ties into Macross Frontier, Macross 7, and a few others.

I do have to admit it was definitely a bit of a shock learning that Johnson's knack for picking the wrong side led to him joining two terrorist groups.  It definitely explains why the only jobs he could find were out in the space boonies.  There might still even be an active warrant or five for his arrest in the core systems.

 

8 hours ago, RedWolf said:

I find it curious Epsilon Foundation bought Sv Works from General Galaxy and also installed the Zauber Flute on the Sigur Valens. Berger Stone figured out what Roid was doing with the network.

It's not really that surprising, considering the Epsilon Foundation is even shadier than General Galaxy and in both Macross E and the Macross Delta series proper seems to be the Macross universe's equivalent of UC Gundam's Anaheim Electronics... selling to both sides for maximum profit.

Another reason it's not particularly surprising is that Berger Stone's Epsilon Foundation branch was the one responsible for all the restoration work on the Sigur Valens and the study of the Protoculture ruins it was meant to work with because Windermere IV did not have the necessary technical base to do it.  This guy's people spent probably several YEARS poking around inside that ship for the purpose of restoring it, it would be shocking if he hadn't had some inkling of what it was actually built to do.  If it's anything at all like the Fold Evil or the ruins in the Varauta system, there was probably a big freaking sign somewhere saying "WARNING! DO NOT TOUCH! THIS WILL MAKE YOUR HEAD EXPLODE!" or a recording from the ship's creators explaining why it was a stupid idea and that they'd decided not to use it.

 

8 hours ago, RedWolf said:

Roid's plan is similar to Macross Galaxy's.

That's because, due to lazy writing, Roid's plan basically IS Grace's plan... just without the forced cyborg-ization.

[SMS007]

Goddamn, Ernest Johnson was involved with the villains of VF-X2? Woah, where was this mentioned?

Also, what source clarifies that Epsilon, not the Windermereans, was responsible for all the restoration work on the Sigur Barrentz? Blu-Ray liner notes?

Edited January 20, 2018 by SMS007

[Master Dex]

14 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Also, what source clarifies that Epsilon, not the Windermereans, was responsible for all the restoration work on the Sigur Barrentz? Blu-Ray liner notes?

The show outright says it, Berger is there on Windermere working on the ship. There is likely more details in ancillary media, but... it was pretty clear to me just from watching.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Master Dex

[Sildani]

Poor Ernest Johnson. I guess after he took the fall for Isamu and Guld there’s not much else for him. 

[Master Dex]

1 hour ago, Sildani said:

Poor Ernest Johnson. I guess after he took the fall for Isamu and Guld there’s not much else for him. 

No.. Ernest Johnson is the Zentran Xaos commander in Delta.... you're thinking of Millard Johnson...

Edited January 21, 2018 by Master Dex

[RedWolf]

4 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Goddamn, Ernest Johnson was involved with the villains of VF-X2? Woah, where was this mentioned?

 

"Macross Δ 2 Windermere Aerial Knights", pp. 222-223.

[Sildani]

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

No.. Ernest Johnson is the Zentran Xaos commander in Delta.... you're thinking of Millard Johnson...

Yes, yes I am. Thanks. 

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Also, what source clarifies that Epsilon, not the Windermereans, was responsible for all the restoration work on the Sigur Barrentz? Blu-Ray liner notes?

Macross Delta episodes 10 and 11.

In episode 10, in the pre-credits scene about 25 seconds into the episode Berger is depicted apologizing for the Epsilon Foundation falling behind schedule analyzing the systems on the Sigur Valens and reports that the analysis of the ship's systems is 45% done.  In episode 11, about 6 minutes in Berger is present in a meeting with King Grammier where Roid's shocked to learn that Berger's analysis of the Sigur Valens has reached the point where the ship can be activated.

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

No.. Ernest Johnson is the Zentran Xaos commander in Delta.... you're thinking of Millard Johnson...

Macross doesn't observe a One Steve Limit.

[JB0]

48 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross doesn't observe a One Steve Limit.

See also: Aegis Focker... maybe.

[SMS007]

4 hours ago, RedWolf said:

"Macross Δ 2 Windermere Aerial Knights", pp. 222-223.

Eh, what is that publication, exactly?

[RedWolf]

52 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

Eh, what is that publication, exactly?

Novelization of Macross Delta volume 2 by Kodachi Ukyo. The guy who also wrote the Macross Frontier novelizations and the Macross lore consultant for Macross Delta.

[Focslain]

Ok, because this may come up in my local group soon..

Noticed in Delta and a bit in Frontier the, I'm guessing, expletives of de-yuk and de-culture. While I'm guessing this is like the Frak of BSG I've hear deculture used in positive and negative tones. Is this just a catch all or do these two have like a hierarchy?

Also any other franchise specific terms the characters might use would be nice to know prior to my marathon of movie later.

[Seto Kaiba]

41 minutes ago, Focslain said:

Noticed in Delta and a bit in Frontier the, I'm guessing, expletives of de-yuk and de-culture. While I'm guessing this is like the Frak of BSG I've hear deculture used in positive and negative tones. Is this just a catch all or do these two have like a hierarchy?

On occasion, Zentradi has been compared to Chinese in that it seems to be a tonal language where the meaning of a word can be changed depending on its inflection.  Macross Chronicle, however, notes that its grammar and alphabet are very close to those of Latin-derived languages.

Depending on how it's used, "deculture" can have either positive or negative meanings.  If you'll forgive me for dating myself with some references to old slang, the usage is almost "sick" in which it could mean either "that's disgusting" or "that's awesome" in a different context.  Used negatively, like the Zentradi in DYRL?'s opening do, "deculture" translates to something like "outrageous", "scandalous", "unthinkable", or "disturbing".  Used positively, the way Ranka does in Macross Frontier, its meaning becomes more like "amazing", "incredible", "wonderful", or "awesome".  "Yakk deculture!" is basically "How disturbing!" or "How amazing!".

 

41 minutes ago, Focslain said:

Also any other franchise specific terms the characters might use would be nice to know prior to my marathon of movie later.

That is a LONG list.  There's a reason Macross Chronicle's glossary is 27 double-sided pages.

[SMS007]

Ha, like "bless your heart" in Southern U.S. English.

[sketchley]

4 hours ago, Focslain said:

Also any other franchise specific terms the characters might use would be nice to know prior to my marathon of movie later.

As Seto said... there's A LOT!

Glossary that I use in translations (far, far from complete, but contains disambiguation - as different translators have used different words for the same thing over the years): http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/Glossary.php

TOC for the aforementioned Macross Chronicle glossary (some explanations translated, all terms in English; NO disambiguation): http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRglossary/MCRglossary.php

 

Enjoy your 'lite' reading!

[Focslain]

11 hours ago, sketchley said:

As Seto said... there's A LOT!

Glossary that I use in translations (far, far from complete, but contains disambiguation - as different translators have used different words for the same thing over the years): http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/Glossary.php

TOC for the aforementioned Macross Chronicle glossary (some explanations translated, all terms in English; NO disambiguation): http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRglossary/MCRglossary.php

 

Enjoy your 'lite' reading!

Oh gods, you and @Seto Kaiba just accelerated the process... welp better get this over with. *bookmarks glossary*

[SMS007]

Is Rion Sakaki part of a "Siegfried Platoon", or is "Siegfried 1" a callsign unique to him?

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Is Rion Sakaki part of a "Siegfried Platoon", or is "Siegfried 1" a callsign unique to him?

I don't recall him ever mentioning a Siegfried Platoon.

[no3Ljm]

12 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Is Rion Sakaki part of a "Siegfried Platoon", or is "Siegfried 1" a callsign unique to him?

AFAIR, it's his callsign.

 

[SMS007]

Is this one of the antagonist characters from VF-X?

[sketchley]

1 hour ago, SMS007 said:

Is this one of the antagonist characters from VF-X?

Correction: VF-X2

He's Timothy Daldanton (romanized as "Timoshie Daldanton" in one of the books).  He's the leader of the Black Rainbow terrorist group, and pilots the Pheios Valkyrie (just peaking into view behind him in the picture).

More info: http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRglossary/Glossary15a.php#reverse

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, sketchley said:

Correction: VF-X2

He's Timothy Daldanton (romanized as "Timoshie Daldanton" in one of the books).  He's the leader of the Black Rainbow terrorist group, and pilots the Pheios Valkyrie (just peaking into view behind him in the picture).

More info: http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRglossary/Glossary15a.php#reverse

As a fun side note, Timothy Daldanton was the first of several "remember the new guy" characters established to be First Space War veterans who served under Vrlitwhai and adopted human names after integrating into Earth's culture under the New UN Government.

Other entrants in that category include Macross Frontier's Richard Bilra and Naresuan from Macross the Ride.

Timothy Daldanton had a long and highly successful career in the New UN Forces before quitting to become leader of the anti-government group Black Rainbow.  He was a part of the military escort for the short-range emigrant fleet that settled Eden, he fought for the New UN Forces during the 2nd Defensive Battle of Macross City in 2030 against Zentradi terrorists, and commanded a much-celebrated New UN Spacy Special Forces unit attached to the Macross-3 fleet known as the Black Rays.  He's also the one responsible for clueing the VF-X Ravens in to Latence's existence.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[SMS007]

And what's the story of Maria-Fokina Barnrose?

And Manfred Brando?

[Seto Kaiba]

13 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

And what's the story of Maria-Fokina Barnrose?

There's not much of one, honestly.

Mariafokina Barnrose was the de facto leader of the anti-government organization Vindirance in Macross VF-X2, but her entire schtick in the game was that she was a mysterious ace pilot so almost no personal details come out in the course of interactions with her.  Under her leadership Vindirance is basically an anti-government group only in that they're opposed to Latence, the Earth-supremacist group inside the New UN Forces that strongly supported Earth's interference in the domestic affairs of colony worlds.  The Ravens CO, Major Gilliam Angreat, is implied to have some previous history with her but no specifics are ever discussed.  She's crazy well-informed, having access to classified intel at a level that even Gilliam (a federal NUNS Special Forces commander) didn't, and she's implied to have a network of allies and sympathizers inside the New UN Forces as well.

She's such a capable ace pilot that she's able to beat Aegis Focker in his VF-19A with a VF-1S+ Valkyrie Plus, and once the Ravens become aware of Latence's planned coup d'etat against the New UN Government, she's the one who orchestrates the offensive against the hijacked Macross-13.

Macross Chronicle offers a mention of in-universe rumors that "Mariafokina Barnrose" is an alias of Therese Mariafokina Formula Jenius, and that the reason Vindirance was such a successful organization was that it was being clandestinely supported by New UN Forces flag officers including her father Maximilian Jenius.

The novelization of Macross Frontier indicates that, in the aftermath of Latence's defeat, the New UN Government created a regulatory bureau overseeing the VF-X Special Forces units called the Barnrose Organization.

 

 

13 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

And Manfred Brando?

A man who tried to live his life according to Voltaire's "When You're Evil"... that's barely an exaggeration.  This guy's a prick.

He's the President and CEO of the Critical Path Corporation, an interstellar corporation that has close ties to both the New UN Forces and General Galaxy corporation and indulges heavily in black market arms sales and illegal weapons testing.  Critical Path is known to have pioneered research into the applications of fold quartz, including bankrolling Dr. Mao Nome's 117th Research Fleet expedition to study the Vajra, and developed and sold weapons to anti-government groups including opposing forces like Latence and Vindirance.

His official bio notes him to be an extremely intelligent fellow who was given special education from a very young age to enable him to take over his father's company and run its legitimate and black market interests.  A top-notch pilot, artist, musician, and businessman who is rather amoral and doesn't regard human life as any obstacle to making a profit.  At just nine years old, he placed first in the classical conductor division in the Earth Culture Preservation Festival in 2038, and was granted special admission to college, where he graduated in two years then did three years of flight school.  He took over Critical Path at age 16 following his father's death in 2045, and has been evilly supporting Latence and Critical Path's black market arms deals ever since.

He's responsible for the Jamming Sound system that Latence uses to paralyze Earth's defenses in the final stages of the game, and has a personal VF-17S.  He's shot down and killed by the VF-X Ravens, though the Macross Frontier novelization implies that he was experimenting with cybernetics and the rather Ghost in the Shell-y idea of divorcing the consciousness from the physical body and survived his own death by uploading his mind into the network and exists as a disembodied data entity in the Macross Galaxy fleet.

The same novels also indicate that the reason Ozma Lee got a dishonorable discharge from the New UN Spacy was because he took issue with Brando's interrogation of Ranka in the Board of Inquiry hearing about the loss of the 117th Research Fleet and beat the stuffing out of him.

[Master Dex]

Reading descriptions like that makes me realize that if you only watch the shows Macross is largely standard fare. If you follow all extended lore materials it is quickly clear Macross is about a complex as Metal Gear Solid at times, lol.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

Reading descriptions like that makes me realize that if you only watch the shows Macross is largely standard fare. If you follow all extended lore materials it is quickly clear Macross is about a complex as Metal Gear Solid at times, lol.

Macross's creators seem pretty determined to avoid having Macross end up with the same kind of continuity lockout problem that Mobile Suit Gundam's Universal Century continuity has developed over the years.  The main installments of the Macross metaseries after the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross - Macross 7, Frontier, and Delta - are all shows that were written as largely standalone stories to keep them accessible to viewers who were new to the franchise.  With the stories having relatively few direct connections to other, older shows, any essential details from previous shows that couldn't be gracefully covered in the course of the story proper could easily be covered in that brief blurb before the OP, ensuring the new viewers had enough context to understand everything without requiring them to go back and see every other show first.

It was the OVAs, the novels, the manga, and the video games that are more "for fans" in that they spend orders of magnitude more effort drawing connections between the various titles in the metaseries.  They can get really deep into that at times, like Macross R tying the liberation of the Varauta colony in Macross 7 to the Vindirance campaign in the Macross VF-X2 game, Macross Dynamite 7, Macross Frontier, and the original series.

Let's not speak of Metal Gear though.  Even at its worst and most obtuse *coughDeltacough*, the Macross metaseries has never come anywhere close to the sort of deranged, tinfoil hat-wearing, caps lock-abusing, run-on sentence conspiracy theorist cr*p that Hideo Kojima thinks constitutes writing.  Like one of Wile E. Coyote's tunnel paintings, all of the depth in the Metal Gear series is completely illusory because what passes for storytelling there is exposition dumps that read like a "Best of" of old Babelfish-translated Usenet forum posts on the New World Order and uses the word "nanomachines" like an effing comma.  A refusal to explain anything in an intelligible fashion doesn't constitute complexity¹.  

 

1. Thank goodness for Metal Gear Rising: Revengence eh?  The only installment in the franchise that was actually any fun, because it was fully cognizant of the fact that the writing in Metal Gear is the unfunniest joke and resolved to address it the only way it knew how... by abandoning any pretense of taking it seriously in favor of being a comically over-the-top spectacle and the spiritual lovechild of Sengoku Basara and Broforce.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[Master Dex]

I actually like MGS, but I am fully aware of it's problems and won't go out of my way to defend it (especially MGS4 after a lot of hindsight and realizations over the years). It certainly is not undeserving of that spiel though, heh. Enough of that topic though, it is not meant for this forum or thread.

I merely meant to joke at the suprisingly complexity that arises in Macross lore when you factor in the non-show material, a good portion of which I sadly cannot enjoy due to not speaking or understanding full Japanese as of yet (I have taken steps to begin learning it but I can tell I will not reach anywhere near the ability to enjoy something of this nature without subtitles or translations for a long long time.. even if I keep up on my learning). I do own Macross 30 but have played a pathetically small amount of it because even with guides online I have the most difficult time figuring out what I'm supposed to do to actually enjoy the game, much less that since I can't understand the dialogue I'm missing the story no matter what. I actually did play VF-X2 on an emulator some time ago and was able to even beat it... but I never once knew what was going on.¹ I'd love to enjoy the manga and novels but since no localization will ever likely exist for them (for the usual reasons when it comes to Macross), kinda SOL there.

To this end it is very fortunate we have as much as we do in people like Sketchley and yourself Seto who can at least give us these cliff notes versions of certain things I'd otherwise never know. Especially the last few posts with dossiers on these VF-X2 characters. I'd heard bits and pieces before in various threads but I still feel like I don't know everything. I'd do to get a full on run down of the VF-X and VF-X2 games some day but I would never ask you to put yourself through that of course. I also know the gist of what happens in Macross 30 as well but only due to the bits I've scavenged reading stuff here in the same way.

 

^{1. I also played the PS2 Macross game that follows both the TV and movie events of the story up till the Love Drifts Away/Do You Remember Love? final battles. I didn't have the ability to follow the dialogue there either but the game was easy to play and since I have watched the show and movie with full subtitles before.. obviously I wasn't at all lost on that one, heh. As such I got the most enjoyment out of that game compared to any other Macross game I've tried.}

[SMS007]

Wait, Gilliam Angreat is the commander officer of the 727th Ravens? Not Aegis Focker?

5 hours ago, Master Dex said:

Reading descriptions like that makes me realize that if you only watch the shows Macross is largely standard fare. If you follow all extended lore materials it is quickly clear Macross is about a complex as Metal Gear Solid at times, lol.

 

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross's creators seem pretty determined to avoid having Macross end up with the same kind of continuity lockout problem that Mobile Suit Gundam's Universal Century continuity has developed over the years.  The main installments of the Macross metaseries after the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross - Macross 7, Frontier, and Delta - are all shows that were written as largely standalone stories to keep them accessible to viewers who were new to the franchise.  With the stories having relatively few direct connections to other, older shows, any essential details from previous shows that couldn't be gracefully covered in the course of the story proper could easily be covered in that brief blurb before the OP, ensuring the new viewers had enough context to understand everything without requiring them to go back and see every other show first.

It was the OVAs, the novels, the manga, and the video games that are more "for fans" in that they spend orders of magnitude more effort drawing connections between the various titles in the metaseries.  They can get really deep into that at times, like Macross R tying the liberation of the Varauta colony in Macross 7 to the Vindirance campaign in the Macross VF-X2 game, Macross Dynamite 7, Macross Frontier, and the original series.

Wow, the sheer detail presented in ancillary Macross materials.

Heh, so Manfred Brando probably survived VF-X2 eh? I guess we have to hope that SMS finished him off at the conclusion of Frontier.

But for real? Max of all people backs a terrorist organization, and treason against the NUN at that? What the hell?

Edited February 5, 2018 by SMS007

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, Master Dex said:

I merely meant to joke at the suprisingly complexity that arises in Macross lore when you factor in the non-show material, a good portion of which I sadly cannot enjoy due to not speaking or understanding full Japanese as of yet (I have taken steps to begin learning it but I can tell I will not reach anywhere near the ability to enjoy something of this nature without subtitles or translations for a long long time.. even if I keep up on my learning).

Yeah, proficiency in Japanese is a bit of a bear... I've seen estimates that it takes something along the lines of 2,500 hours of practice to achieve basic proficiency.

 

10 hours ago, Master Dex said:

I do own Macross 30 but have played a pathetically small amount of it because even with guides online I have the most difficult time figuring out what I'm supposed to do to actually enjoy the game, much less that since I can't understand the dialogue I'm missing the story no matter what.

Have you tried the guide posted here on MacrossWorld?  My buddy @Jack Verse got through all of the Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy game using that and he doesn't speak a lick of Japanese.

Most of the missions amount to "fly to the location marked on your HUD/map" followed by either "and explore the location" or "defeat all enemies there", though there usually isn't any difference between those two options.  The Hunters Guild quests are somewhat more frustrating since they usually fall into one of three basic categories:

• Fly to location X and trigger an event by getting close to a big floating icon and hitting O, then kill all the things.
• Obtain X many Y goods and deliver them to any Guild location (usually just spawned pickups on the worldmap, sometimes special items that show up as different-colored item pickups on the worldmap).
• Deliver X goods to Y location (same as the above, except the item is basically handed to you and you have to fly it to a specific guild location.)

The Vanquish Races are the ones I found most frustrating, but that was just because I don't seem to be very good at them.  To this day, I've never managed to beat the ones that provide the FAST pack sets for the YF-19 and YF-21.

 

10 hours ago, Master Dex said:

I'd love to enjoy the manga and novels but since no localization will ever likely exist for them (for the usual reasons when it comes to Macross), kinda SOL there.

There are fan translations of some of them.  I know Macross 7 Trash got a full fan translation, even if the scan quality is iffy and the romanizations inconsistent.  @Talos wanted to work with me on a full translation of Macross the First, but that project never got off the ground because of our mutual work obligations.

I know partial translations have been done for Macross Delta: the White Knight of the Black Wing.

 

 

7 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Wait, Gilliam Angreat is the commander officer of the 727th Ravens? Not Aegis Focker?

Yes, Maj. Gilliam Angreat (NUNS) is the CO of the 727th Independent Squadron VF-X Ravens.  The VF-X Ravens were founded in 2036, and he assumed command of the unit after being promoted to Major in 2043.  He was offered a promotion to the staff office directing the VF-X units in 2045, but turned it down to remain in the field.

His immediate superior is Col. Wilbur Garland (NUNS), the staff officer who is responsible for all of the VF-X units operating in that region of the galaxy.  He and Gilliam graduated the NUNS VF pilot training school together in 2031, served together in the 28th Long-Distance Emigrant Fleet escort detail, and were both selected for the new special forces pilot training program Scarecrow in 2034.  Col. Garland is also THE BAD GUY, being the front man for Latence in its hijacking of the New UN Spacy Earth defense fleet's Macross-13 flagship and also dumb enough to have a villainous BSoD and get back in the cockpit of a Jamming Sound-equipped VF-22 after years behind a desk so Aegis could shoot him down and kill him.

Cpt. Aegis Focker joined the VF-X Ravens in 2050 after being transferred out of the Beneb system New UN Spacy defense force's Angel Wings squadron.  He briefly becomes commanding officer of the VF-X Ravens after Gilliam goes missing in the field in 2050, before being reunited with him in January 2051.  Depending on whether you get the bad or good end, Gilliam is either defeated by Aegis or Aegis and the rest of the Ravens defect to Vindirance and operate under his leadership again.

 

 

7 hours ago, SMS007 said:

Heh, so Manfred Brando probably survived VF-X2 eh? I guess we have to hope that SMS finished him off at the conclusion of Frontier.

Yep, it's noted in the novels that an AI personality named Manfred is present and involved in the conspiracy by the Galaxy Executives.

"Survived" might be a strong word for it, though, as Manfred most definitely died in the biological sense.  Whether the Manfred data entity in the Macross Galaxy fleet is the living mind of Manfred Brando or just a digital copy of his mind isn't clear.  Either way, something of Manfred Brando did not die with his body when his VF-17S was shot down.

 

7 hours ago, SMS007 said:

But for real? Max of all people backs a terrorist organization, and treason against the NUN at that? What the hell?

Vindirance is only technically an anti-government organization in Macross VF-X2. 

They're not really opposed to the New UN Government or New UN Forces in and of themselves, they oppose the literally militant Earth-supremacist faction Latence which was increasingly influencing the policies of the New UN Government and New UN Forces.  Latence was pushing the New UN Gov't on Earth to expand its authority over the emigrant fleets and colony worlds, to exert more military force to suppress pro-autonomy movements in the colonies, and to grant more power and authority to the military with an endgame of the military controlling the government rather than vice versa.

As the commanding officer of an emigrant fleet escort group, and the husband of the emigrant fleet government's chief executive, it makes sense that Max would be among Vindirance's backers in the New UN Forces.  He's a soldier acting to oppose a nationalist faction inside the military that's trying to seize control of the legitimate democratic government from within and corrupt it into a militant nationalist state that rules with an iron fist in the name of "defense".  Ultimately, he did the right thing, Latence was foiled, and the resulting greater autonomy granted to the emigrant fleets took the wind out of the sails of a lot of serious anti-government movements, resulting in more peaceful times for the New UN Government.

Really, you could sum it up by saying that Macross VF-X2 is more or less Macross's own riff on Zeta Gundam... Latence are the Titans, the anti-colonist suppression group who become increasingly evil and brutal as time goes on, while Vindirance is the AEUG, the secret paramilitary group created and supported by the military to semi-clandestinely oppose the brutal actions of the suppression unit.