The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[blackconvoy_D01]

If all the VF-171's are modelled after the VF-17D, why aren't there VF-171's modelled after the VF-17S for squad leaders?

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

If all the VF-171's are modelled after the VF-17D, why aren't there VF-171's modelled after the VF-17S for squad leaders?

Contrary to what most fans would expect after the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series, the vast majority of variable fighters used by the (New) UN Forces don't actually have command variants.  Most of the time, the grunts and their bosses are flying the exact same aircraft, with the VF-25 being the first main VF since the VF-1 to have one.  That probably has something to do with keeping maintenance costs down... since its cheaper to not have to maintain a second variant with different hardware for a small number of pilots.  After the VF-1, the command variants were mostly kept to the Special Forces VFs like the VF-17 Nightmare or VF-19 Excalibur 2nd mass production type.

(Xaos's VF-31s don't count, as they're customs of a milspec model that is one-variant-fits-all, and the VF-27's ace variant is a fake command variant that's pretty much identical to the base model but with slightly different tuning.)

 

Of course, if I really wanted to weasel out of answering that question I could point out that we've thus far only seen three of an unknown total number of local variations of the VF-171 Nightmare Plus that broadly conform to Block II/2055... the Frontier fleet spec (dark blue), the Outer Rim territories spec (khaki), and the EX type (a Frontier spec derivative).  It's possible that some fleet or planet out there decided to include a command model and we just haven't seen it.

[Devil 505]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Contrary to what most fans would expect after the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series, the vast majority of variable fighters used by the (New) UN Forces don't actually have command variants.  Most of the time, the grunts and their bosses are flying the exact same aircraft, with the VF-25 being the first main VF since the VF-1 to have one.  That probably has something to do with keeping maintenance costs down... since its cheaper to not have to maintain a second variant with different hardware for a small number of pilots.  After the VF-1, the command variants were mostly kept to the Special Forces VFs like the VF-17 Nightmare or VF-19 Excalibur 2nd mass production type.

(Xaos's VF-31s don't count, as they're customs of a milspec model that is one-variant-fits-all, and the VF-27's ace variant is a fake command variant that's pretty much identical to the base model but with slightly different tuning.)

 

Of course, if I really wanted to weasel out of answering that question I could point out that we've thus far only seen three of an unknown total number of local variations of the VF-171 Nightmare Plus that broadly conform to Block II/2055... the Frontier fleet spec (dark blue), the Outer Rim territories spec (khaki), and the EX type (a Frontier spec derivative).  It's possible that some fleet or planet out there decided to include a command model and we just haven't seen it.

On the subject of the Nightmare series, exactly how downgraded is the VF-171 in comparison to the VF-17?

[Seto Kaiba]

50 minutes ago, Devil 505 said:

On the subject of the Nightmare series, exactly how downgraded is the VF-171 in comparison to the VF-17?

Well, I'm not sure downgraded is necessarily the right word for it... simplified, refined, or optimized for mass production might be better words, though even they don't really capture the truth of it.

You see, the VF-17 Nightmare started out as a 3rd Generation VF when it first debuted toward the tail end of the 3rd Generation development period.  The initial models used old style thermonuclear reaction turbine engines and older avionics hardware, but starting from the -D model they were upgraded with AVF-tier hardware including thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engines.  That arguably puts them into Generation 3.5 along with other pre-4th Gen designs that incorporated AVF advancements like the VF-16.  The VF-171 Nightmare Plus, however, is a true blue 4th Generation (Advanced) Variable Fighter with all the technological bells and whistles that implies... meaning that, while the VF-171 is definitely not representing an advancement over the VF-17 in all areas, it is actually technically an upgrade in most respects.

Among the design changes that could technically be called downgrades are:

• The VF-171's FF-2110X thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engines are a derivative of the FF-2100X engines used by the VF-17D, but with a 20.96% reduction in maximum instantaneous thrust (in space).  This does not seem to actually affect their ability to function as SSTO aircraft, but it definitely does reflect a decrease in acceleration and thrust-to-weight ratio.
• The VF-171 gained a bit of weight compared to its predecessor, being 12,150kg to the VF-17D's 11,850kg.
• The VF-171 is slightly slower at altitude, topping out at Mach 3.5+ at 10km instead of Mach 4.0+.
• The VF-171's design lacks the forearm-mounted laser cannons that were the VF-17's main GERWALK-mode gun option.
• The VF-171's internal micro-missile launchers were decreased from 4 to 2 compared to the VF-17.

On the other hand, the upgrades it got in the process are:

• The VF-171's transformation is mechanically simpler and more robust than the VF-17's, and enables the VF to employ its gunpod with greater ease in GERWALK mode.  This also made it easier to mass-produce.
• The VF-171's redesigned airframe gained increased defensive capability and increased canopy field-of-view.
• The VF-171's aerodynamic redesign provided increased maneuverability and operational versatility, enabling the VF-171 to be used in almost every major operational role from fighter to bomber to reconnaissance aircraft to drone mothership.
• The VF-171 has AVF-tier avionics and a 3rd Generation active stealth system (same type as the VF-19).
• The VF-171 has a pin-point barrier system for defensive and offensive use.
• The VF-171's armaments were upgraded across the board, and the laser weapons of the original VF-17 were replaced with beam guns.  It also gained six underwing pylons for greater ordinance versatility.

All told, the VF-171 gets an unfairly bad rap because it's (almost) never flown by a main character.  Its only appearances are near the end of its service life, where it's there to get blasted to show how much better fighters one generation newer are... though we did get occasional shots of awesome like Machida's punch, or the Brisingr Alliance VF-171s shooting down Drakens during their counterattack.

[NightmarePlus]

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The VF-171's internal micro-missile launchers were decreased from 4 to 2 compared to the VF-17.

Wait, the 171s had internal missile launchers? 

[sketchley]

Yes.  Micro-missile Launchers in the shoulders, and Internal Armament Loading Bays in the legs - though they were always visually depicted as two-port micro-missile launchers.
http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/VF-171/VF171.php#OFFENSIVE_SYSTEMS

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, NightmarePlus said:

Wait, the 171s had internal missile launchers? 

Yep... Gamlin used the internal launchers on his VF-17 only rarely, and the VF-171s aren't ever actually shown using them at all as far as I can recall, but they are in fact there.  The ports are easier to see on the EX model with its white paintjob.  They're on the wing root, just aft of that part that has "NUNS" stenciled on it.

[Devil 505]

52 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yep... Gamlin used the internal launchers on his VF-17 only rarely, and the VF-171s aren't ever actually shown using them at all as far as I can recall, but they are in fact there.  The ports are easier to see on the EX model with its white paintjob.  They're on the wing root, just aft of that part that has "NUNS" stenciled on it.

Despite being depicted as "cannon fodder," I'm hoping that a Master File for the VF-17/VF-171 will show up eventually.

[blackconvoy_D01]

This Isn't from a masterfile?

[Scream Man]

That looks like the Macross Chronicle Magazine. 

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

Despite being depicted as "cannon fodder," I'm hoping that a Master File for the VF-17/VF-171 will show up eventually.

Seems unlikely, IMO... thus far, GAGraphic and SoftBank have only really bothered to cover the most prominent variable fighters featured in the various Macross animated titles.  They're not really focusing on in-universe importance, they're focusing on the ones that are the most "action figure-ous".  Take, for instance, the latest volume that's due out any day now... Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried.  The book isn't for the actual production VF-31 that was to become the next main fighter of the Brisingr Alliance the way the VF-25 book was about the fighter in New UN Forces hands.  Instead, we're getting a book about that handful of hideously garish custom fighters the bumbling clods of Xaos's 3rd Fighter Wing Delta Flight flew while Windermere's Aerial Knights handed them their asses at regular intervals.

Plus, considering how bad the Variable Fighter Master File: VF-4 Lightning III book was, I'm not sure we should really WANT another one that features a lesser-known VF.  The VF-4 book's history sections were little more than a tie-in to Macross Delta, and the technical information in the book was mostly wrong and ignored or contradicted official information and common sense.

 

10 hours ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

This Isn't from a masterfile?

That's a Macross Chronicle Mechanic Sheet... it was only like four pages in total.

The Variable Fighter Master File books are, well, books... which run to about 128 pages.  They may not have any Tenjin paintings like Macross Chronicle did, but they have some fairly good CG and model kit-related art instead.

[blackconvoy_D01]

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yep... Gamlin used the internal launchers on his VF-17 only rarely, and the VF-171s aren't ever actually shown using them at all as far as I can recall, but they are in fact there.  The ports are easier to see on the EX model with its white paintjob.  They're on the wing root, just aft of that part that has "NUNS" stenciled on it.

From here?

[kajnrig]

2 minutes ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

From here?

No, those are missiles being launched from the underwing pylons. The micro missile launchers are located in the shoulders in battroid mode. In fighter mode:

[frothymug]

I'm pretty sure Alto uses those shoulder bays when he was flying a 171EX.

[Scream Man]

So now i have the DX 262, I have a question about its weapons.

In fighter mode I know that it has the main cannon below the ship, but no other visible guns. When Keith kills Messer, he fires from the pop out nose guns (That are the head in Battorid) but before that, and the other 262's appear to fire from above the cockpit. where the twin guns are housed on the arm. However the toy, and no pic from the show i can find, do not show gunports for it to fire through. 

Any ideas?

 

[kajnrig]

The Hasegawa kit allows you to build that section with the guns deployed or stowed; the gold that covers the barrels in fighter mode can apparently open, eject, or otherwise make way to expose them. It's a mechanism that just didn't make the transition to the toys, models, and animation. The Bandai kit omits these covers entirely and just has the barrels exposed all the time, even in fighter mode.

Bandai kit: http://dalong.net/review/etc/md03/p/md03_91.jpg

[Scream Man]

that makes sense then. Surprised they didnt make them appetures on the DX then. 

Cheers muchly

[blackconvoy_D01]

What does SFV stand for? As in SFV-26 Cavaliers?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

What does SFV stand for? As in SFV-26 Cavaliers?

It's a typo... it's supposed to be "SVF".

Though the "Spacy" in "UN Spacy" stands for "Space Military" rather than "Space Navy", and it isn't organizationally a navy, the (New) UN Spacy did nick a few things from the (US) Navy in terms of designation systems and markings.  The Spacy's ships have Navy-style hull symbols, and the Spacy's aircraft squadrons follow a modified version of the US Navy's squadron designation scheme.  They just stick a leading S onto the code so it's clear that it's a Space (Spacy) unit.

So... SVF-26 would break down as:

• S = Attached to the UN Spacy
• V = Fixed wing (meaning "not a helicopter, ornithopter, or balloon")
• F = Fighter squadron
• ## = Squadron number

It would be read, fully, as Space Fighter Squadron Two-Six.

If you read Master File or books like the Macross Plus This is Animation books, you'll find a lot of examples of these... SVF, SVFA, SVA, SVQ, SVAQ, SVAW, SVFC, etc. which all mean the same as their Navy counterparts... but IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE! 

[Sildani]

How was the Master File book for the VF-31? Accurate? Useful? Better then the VF-4's MF?

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Sildani said:

How was the Master File book for the VF-31? Accurate? Useful? Better then the VF-4's MF?

Like most of Macross Delta, the VF-31 Master File could best be described as "disappointing" or "half-assed".

Is it accurate?  No.  The writers apparently didn't pay attention to the creator interviews for Macross Delta, because they mention the VF-31A being in military service years before it was adopted by the NUNS.  

Is it useful?  No.  A good chunk of the technical material is slightly reworded or redrawn content lifted from the VF-25 book and key features of the VF-31 are ignored entirely or mentioned only in passing.

Is it better than the VF-4's Master File?  I would grudgingly have to say "Yes, it is".  If only because the VF-31 book mostly concerns itself with official variants instead of ignoring them in favor of making up a bunch of crap that doesn't make sense.  The book would probably be a good deal less useless if only the main characters weren't flying one-off ace custom VFs.

[Nazareno2012]

Why does 'San Fransisco' at Island 1 in Frontier only have the cable car and some kind of people mover, not a higher-capacity transport system like MUNI and BART in present-day San Fransisco? I know the cable car is more recognizable but the large population in Island 1 (around 5 million) calls for a higher-capacity transport system. No wonder why there are traffic jams in Island 1!

[Seto Kaiba]

35 minutes ago, Nazareno2012 said:

Why does 'San Fransisco' at Island 1 in Frontier only have the cable car and some kind of people mover, not a higher-capacity transport system like MUNI and BART in present-day San Fransisco? I know the cable car is more recognizable but the large population in Island 1 (around 5 million) calls for a higher-capacity transport system. No wonder why there are traffic jams in Island 1!

Because the higher-capacity transit system - a public rail system - is situated above and below the topmost layer of Island-1's city.

We see in the series that they have the same high-speed train system running through the dome and into the island modules that the City-7 had... that's how Alto and Sheryl get to the station at the apex of the dome, and then to Island-3 on their date.  That same train system is also shown to run through the lower two layers of the city in the first Macross Frontier movie (seen for brief moments during Ranka's toy advert in Deep Akihabara.)  I'm not sure if we can call it a subway or not, since it's below the ground of the top layer but above ground to the upside-down layer immediately below that.

(Island-1's population of 5 million doesn't all live on the top layer... considering the bottom two layers are both highrise districts, it's probably not even most of them live topside.)

Edited April 4, 2017 by Seto Kaiba

[anubis20]

Has this been answered before? What was Hikaru piloting in this scene? I wanna put these 3 on a Yeti Stand but want it to be accurate  

Edited April 5, 2017 by anubis20

[azrael]

1 hour ago, anubis20 said:

Has this been answered before? What was Hikaru piloting in this scene? I wanna put these 3 on a Yeti Stand but want it to be accurate

Hikaru is piloting the one with the red-panel scheme (the one on the right). Max became flight leader when Roy and Hikaru went MIA.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, azrael said:

Hikaru is piloting the one with the red-panel scheme (the one on the right). Max became flight leader when Roy and Hikaru went MIA.

I think he means what variant... which, honestly, I don't recall.  It's after he came back to the Macross, so theoretically it should be his red-stripe VF-1S.  (Though since Max was acting Skull Leader it may have been another VF-1A?)

Edited April 5, 2017 by Seto Kaiba

[blackconvoy_D01]

11 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I think he means what variant... which, honestly, I don't recall.  It's after he came back to the Macross, so theoretically it should be his red-stripe VF-1S.  (Though since Max was acting Skull Leader it may have been another VF-1A?)

Hikaru was in the VF-1A. You cant very clearly see it- initially, but you get the idea at 2:46.

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by blackconvoy_D01

[anubis20]

31 minutes ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Hikaru was in the VF-1A. You cant very clearly see it- initially, but you get the idea at 2:46.

 

From this scene? I still cant see anything clearly  But i think you're right. The 1S head lasers wouldve probably been more defined. Now that I remember I have to use my 1A because I sold my Yamato 1S in favor of the Arcadia  and we all know those are pink and not DYRL white 

 

 

[Sildani]

Thanks Seto. A few more questions please: any change to the armaments the 31 can carry as opposed to the 25? Any new weapons listed? Was the ammo capacity and storage method for those forearm railguns described, and did it make sense?

While I'm on it, was the 25's MF any good (the one I actually own)?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Sildani said:

Thanks Seto. A few more questions please: any change to the armaments the 31 can carry as opposed to the 25? Any new weapons listed? Was the ammo capacity and storage method for those forearm railguns described, and did it make sense?

While I'm on it, was the 25's MF any good (the one I actually own)?

With respect to the subject of new weaponry... the missiles and bombs and what have you in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried are newer versions and variants of the same munitions listed in the VF-25 book.  The only noteworthy additions are the obvious ones, such as its heavy quantum beam gunpod, the rapid-fire railgun pods on the arms, and the modular container system.  For the most part, the weapons on the VF-31 are derivatives of the VF-25's... even the micro-missile launchers in the legs are a newer variant of the same launcher in the VF-25's Super Pack.

The only truly new weapons in Master File are a few new variants of the container system that include a YF-30-style micro-missile container (albeit apparently not double-sided like the YF-30's), an ECM pod, and a pod that unfolds into a beam cannon turret.  They curiously neglect covering the standard container that the VF-31A uses, which is mostly identical to the Xaos Custom's version except it has sensors and an assortment of micro-missiles instead of a multidrone charger.  There's also a VF-2JA-esque under-wing missile pod that holds half a dozen or so medium-range multipurpose missiles.

They say almost nothing about the railgun mounts... nothing about ammo, feed system, nada.  There's like one picture of the gun itself, and it isn't even a cutaway.  I suppose if you don't say anything the nothing you say can't technically not make sense... so I guess they're in the clear there, right?

 

The Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah book is, in my opinion, one of the very best books in the series for both completeness and for technical content.  For me, it's tied for first place with the second volume of Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie (and only then because the latter got into the nitty-gritty of fuel system endurance and the tank capacities of both the "naked" VF-1 and all the versions of FAST pack).  Even its goofiest original variants are miles better than the ones in the other books, and it diverges from official material much less than the majority of the other books while also offering a bunch of fairly stealthy nods and in-jokes to half-forgotten projects like VF-Experiment.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Seto Kaiba

[Sildani]

Was it ever stated how many hardpoints the VF-27 had?

[blackconvoy_D01]

Was the VF-17S officially apart of NUNS, or just UN Spacy? 

I ask because of the stickers included with the Yamato set.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Sildani said:

Was it ever stated how many hardpoints the VF-27 had?

Not anywhere that I'm aware of, no.  It's never depicted using any that I recall, but I would assume it has at least four, maybe six (probably two inboard of the nacelle, one outboard).

 

 

1 hour ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Was the VF-17S officially apart of NUNS, or just UN Spacy? 

I ask because of the stickers included with the Yamato set.

There isn't really a firm distinction between them, honestly... the New UN Spacy is what the UN Spacy became when it was reorganized (and decentralized) along with the other UN Forces branches of service.  

Any aircraft that were still in active service would've had their markings updated as a matter of course.  Reserve or test aircraft held in storage would have been updated either at the time of the reorg or if/when they were pulled out of storage for use.  The only ones that would/should have missed it would be aircraft that were already earmarked for decommissioning and destined for either materials recycling at a boneyard or disposal sale to civilian buyers.  

(The Macross Frontier fleet was still in the process of selling off its old VF-11 Thunderbolts in 2058 per Macross the Ride, and there were air racers who'd managed to get their hands on VF-17Ds, so I would assume that they were updated to New UN Forces markings during the time they were still in service prior to sell-off.)

[Focslain]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask but..

Has there been any model kits for the cruiser and frigates from the Macross series?

Been flying around them in Delta scramble and liking the design.

 

[NightmarePlus]

2 hours ago, Focslain said:

Not sure if this is the right place to ask but..

Has there been any model kits for the cruiser and frigates from the Macross series?

Been flying around them in Delta scramble and liking the design.

Unfortunately no . They only exist to get blown up on screen to make the bad guys look intimidating. They're such looking ships too.