The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

So, okay, what changes would be made to the YF-21 if it won Project Super Nova? I was thinking they would need to scale back BDI/BDS and use manual controls as the main control option for the VF-21 again since well, BDS has a tendency to pick up stray thoughts from the pilot.

Without any other changes to the story of Macross Plus?  It'd just be the same VF-22 we got in Macross 7.

[DeltaE27]

The description (and decals) of the Hasegawa VF-0C state these valkyries were assigned to the SLV-111 Daedalus (the same that would eventually become the SDF-1’s punching arm full of destroids) before being phased out. 

My understanding is the Daedalus is an assault ship, not an aircraft carrier. 
 

I’d assume a model kit’s description isn’t exactly primary canon, but it does have me curious. Does the Daedalus have the ability to launch non-helicopter aircraft? Did the VF-0C pilots just always use GERWALK to take off or something?

[twich]

1 hour ago, DeltaE27 said:

The description (and decals) of the Hasegawa VF-0C state these valkyries were assigned to the SLV-111 Daedalus (the same that would eventually become the SDF-1’s punching arm full of destroids) before being phased out. 

My understanding is the Daedalus is an assault ship, not an aircraft carrier. 
 

I’d assume a model kit’s description isn’t exactly primary canon, but it does have me curious. Does the Daedalus have the ability to launch non-helicopter aircraft? Did the VF-0C pilots just always use GERWALK to take off or something?

You could think of it like the US Marine Amphibious Assault Ship. It does the deployment of Marines, but also hovercraft, landing craft, vehicles, tanks, Artillery and Helicopters and Harriers. If the deck is coated with the heat resistant material, even F-35B’s

Twich

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, DeltaE27 said:

The description (and decals) of the Hasegawa VF-0C state these valkyries were assigned to the SLV-111 Daedalus (the same that would eventually become the SDF-1’s punching arm full of destroids) before being phased out. 

My understanding is the Daedalus is an assault ship, not an aircraft carrier. 

@twich is completely correct.

The UN Forces SLV-111 Daedalus is an amphibious assault ship in the style of a modern marine amphibious assault ship... just much bigger.  Its oldest technical writeup actually says it was designed by the US Navy and US Marine Corps.  Like a modern amphibious assault ship, it does support a modest number of aircraft for its size (mainly helicopters) which are used for a variety of purposes including logistical support, anti-submarine warfare, close air support of ground troops, and combat air patrols.  Daedalus's upper hull is configured as a flight deck which, due to the ship's incredible size for its role, is said to be able to simultaneously support either 22 regular-sized helicopters, 12 Sikorsky CH-53E Super Stallion heavy lift helicopters, or 12 VF-1 Battroids for VTOL takeoff.

As the ship spent most of its very brief actual service life in space, it had very little opportunity to put those capabilities to use.

 

2 hours ago, DeltaE27 said:

I’d assume a model kit’s description isn’t exactly primary canon, but it does have me curious. Does the Daedalus have the ability to launch non-helicopter aircraft? Did the VF-0C pilots just always use GERWALK to take off or something?

Based on the oldest versions of its technical writeup from series mechanical setting coordinator Masahiro Chiba, yes it can.  Not many, but it can.  The description provided says Battroids for VTOL takeoff, so presumably they're stored as Battroids too.

The only source to actually discuss the VF-0C's operations is the non-official setting Variable Fighter Master File, which acknowledges the Hasegawa kit and provides some minor details related to it.  Variable Fighter Master File: VF-0 Phoenix describes all twelve production VF-0Cs having been delivered to the UN Marine Corps VMFAT-203 Hawks in Hawaii for evaluation and model conversion training before "about eight" of those aircraft were sent to the SLV-111 Daedalus at South Ataria island.  They operated there as patrol aircraft and provided direct air cover for UN Navy ships during an Anti-Unification Alliance attack on the island (though it doesn't say when, possibly the final Christmas offensive of 2008 depicted in the Macross the First manga, which also had participation of VF-0s from the CVN-99 Asuka II's sister ship CVN-100 Graf Zeppelin II).  Nothing is said about how exactly they operated from the Daedalus's flight deck, though it may be simply that they used the length of the flight deck and their V/STOL capability to save fuel rather than go full VTOL.

[DeltaE27]

Thank you both! That all absolutely makes sense, and the comparison to US Marine assault ships does help. I was mainly wondering because I was having a hard time visualizing the Daedalus’ upper hull as a flight deck, but I forgot just how long that ship is. 

[Seto Kaiba]

46 minutes ago, DeltaE27 said:

Thank you both! That all absolutely makes sense, and the comparison to US Marine assault ships does help. I was mainly wondering because I was having a hard time visualizing the Daedalus’ upper hull as a flight deck, but I forgot just how long that ship is. 

Yeah, it's easy to forget the Daedalus-class and Prometheus-class are 50% larger than the largest modern aircraft carriers at the time the original series was made (the Nimitz-class) and that that's still broadly true with the new and only slightly larger Gerald R. Ford-class.  The Daedalus-class in particular is about twice the size of the next-largest marine amphibious assault ship (Wasp-class).

The overkill was intentional on the UN Forces' part... the combination of a Prometheus-class supercarrier and Daedalus-class amphibious assault ship (with escorts) were meant to basically be a self-contained mobile army able to crush any enemy force that landed within their area of operations.  (Master File asserts that there were supposed to be five pairs, each roving a specific stretch of coastline around the world.)

[pengbuzz]

47 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, it's easy to forget the Daedalus-class and Prometheus-class are 50% larger than the largest modern aircraft carriers at the time the original series was made (the Nimitz-class) and that that's still broadly true with the new and only slightly larger Gerald R. Ford-class.  The Daedalus-class in particular is about twice the size of the next-largest marine amphibious assault ship (Wasp-class).

The overkill was intentional on the UN Forces' part... the combination of a Prometheus-class supercarrier and Daedalus-class amphibious assault ship (with escorts) were meant to basically be a self-contained mobile army able to crush any enemy force that landed within their area of operations.  (Master File asserts that there were supposed to be five pairs, each roving a specific stretch of coastline around the world.)

And then remember that Daedalus  and Prometheus were the arms of the SDF-1 should give folks pause as to the actual dimensions of the Battle Fortress.

It's one thing to think of the ship in meters or feet; it's another thing entirely to consider just how big it is in comparison to objects in real life that we see and know everyday.

One of my favorite videos (SDF-1 @ 5:14, and the Macross Cannon @ 5:39):

 

Edited August 10 by pengbuzz

[JB0]

18 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Its oldest technical writeup actually says it was designed by the US Navy and US Marine Corps.

USMC... well, that explains the Daedalus attack. The marines probably submitted a proposal to punch enemies out of the sky with their pride and joy less than a day after the first transformation.

[Raktus]

Is there anywhere to watch Macross Fufonfia?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Raktus said:

Is there anywhere to watch Macross Fufonfia?

I believe it's an extra feature on the Macross Frontier digitally remastered edition box set.

[Raktus]

Does that have English subs?

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, Raktus said:

Does that have English subs?

No.

[pengbuzz]

19 hours ago, Raktus said:

Is there anywhere to watch Macross Fufonfia?

I think Dailymotion has at least one episode of it there.

[RaisingCane]

Were the captains of the Daedalus and Prometheus ever named or shown in the original series?  I'd assume they outranked Misa (and probably everyone else besides Global).

Edited October 19 by RaisingCane

[Seto Kaiba]

2 minutes ago, RaisingCane said:

Were the captains of the Daedalus and Prometheus ever named or shown in the original series?  I'd assume they outranked Misa (and probably everyone else besides Global).

No, they were not. 

It's unknown if they were among the crew who perished when the ship was transported into deep space by the Macross's fold jump or if they were simply off screen for the duration.

To the best of my knowledge, the only time either commanding officer has appeared is in the manga Macross the First. The captain of the Daedalus is briefly seen and named in the flashback chapters. His name is John Morton.

[George Yamamori]

How wealthy is the Earth compared to the 7 and Frontier fleets?

[sketchley]

12 minutes ago, George Yamamori said:

How wealthy is the Earth compared to the 7 and Frontier fleets?

While it is essentially an impossible question to answer, one way to look at it is the big purchases made by the Earth government.  In short: in addition to fully funding the ongoing costs to repair the environmental damages to the Earth, the Earth is able to fund the creation of dozens upon dozens of fleets at the same scale as the 7 and Frontier fleets, at the rate of 1 to 2 per year.

[George Yamamori]

1 hour ago, sketchley said:

While it is essentially an impossible question to answer, one way to look at it is the big purchases made by the Earth government.  In short: in addition to fully funding the ongoing costs to repair the environmental damages to the Earth, the Earth is able to fund the creation of dozens upon dozens of fleets at the same scale as the 7 and Frontier fleets, at the rate of 1 to 2 per year.

Is Earth still creating Macross fleets as of Delta?

[Master Dex]

Unclear but we know some fleets started launching from Eden as well as seen from the map in Frontier's opening. 

Though that all likely happened in the 30s and 40s too. There's a point where Earth might have slowed down it's own emigrant move because the expansion machine was self sustaining in a way.

[DestroidDefender]

I'm rewatching Macross 7, and the episodes depicting the Macross 5 fleet landing on Planet Lux raised some questions. It seems clear that Macross 7 fleet has one and only one Battle/City combined ship. The shot of the Macross 5 fleet touching down on Lux shows show 3 Battle/City combined ships landing. Does this establish that fleets can have multiple Macross class ships or is it an animation error?

[Seto Kaiba]

38 minutes ago, DestroidDefender said:

I'm rewatching Macross 7, and the episodes depicting the Macross 5 fleet landing on Planet Lux raised some questions. It seems clear that Macross 7 fleet has one and only one Battle/City combined ship. The shot of the Macross 5 fleet touching down on Lux shows show 3 Battle/City combined ships landing. Does this establish that fleets can have multiple Macross class ships or is it an animation error?

Macross Chronicle does state that the Macross 5 fleet had multiple ships of the same type as its flagship Macross 5... so the answer does appear to be that a fleet can have more than one.

It also, interestingly, notes that the underside of each City-class has a large dock that is able to accommodate two Battle-class ships side by side.  So there seems to have been some basic provision for the possibility of multiple Battle-class ships in every fleet even if actually having more than one is not practical.

The Battle Frontier's Mecanic Sheet in Macross Chronicle also vaguely suggests provision for more than one in their designations.  Battle Frontier is described as BATTLE25/MF25-01.  

[TG Remix]

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross Chronicle does state that the Macross 5 fleet had multiple ships of the same type as its flagship Macross 5... so the answer does appear to be that a fleet can have more than one.

It also, interestingly, notes that the underside of each City-class has a large dock that is able to accommodate two Battle-class ships side by side.  So there seems to have been some basic provision for the possibility of multiple Battle-class ships in every fleet even if actually having more than one is not practical.

The Macross 5 fleet in general seems to favor big showpieces of power, since aside Zentradi styled stealth frigates, the ships they had even in that screenshot were multiple Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis type batttleships, something that dwarfed the Battle-class in firepower, maybe capacity, and presumably cost. Makes me wonder why the production side of things didn't do the same treatment with the others, or even make Zentradi flavored carriers in that case.

 

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Battle Frontier's Mecanic Sheet in Macross Chronicle also vaguely suggests provision for more than one in their designations.  Battle Frontier is described as BATTLE25/MF25-01.  

Between this and the VF-19C/MG21 I like the little designation distinctions Frontier introduced with local variants. Makes me wonder what'd it look like if a planet did something along the likes. Lets say, since Volor's VF-171s and Zola's VF-5000Gs were a tad different from the regular builds, would those be the VF-171/Volor or something like VF-5000G/Z?

[Seto Kaiba]

16 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

The Macross 5 fleet in general seems to favor big showpieces of power, since aside Zentradi styled stealth frigates, the ships they had even in that screenshot were multiple Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis type batttleships, something that dwarfed the Battle-class in firepower, maybe capacity, and presumably cost. Makes me wonder why the production side of things didn't do the same treatment with the others, or even make Zentradi flavored carriers in that case.

The Macross 5 fleet's population is predominantly, if not entirely, Zentradi.  A proud people with a refined appreciation for firepower.

As to the Neo Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class battleships, I doubt their firepower eclipses the anti-fleet capabilities of a Battle-class with its Macross Cannon.  They probably have a pretty plausible claim to being the most powerful regular warship available to the NUNS at the time though between their size and Earth's ability to properly equip their missile launchers with anti-warship reaction munitions like the Protoculture did in the distant past.

I'd assume the reason the production side didn't do remodeled versions of all the ships is that Macross 5's role in the story is relatively small, and that just the most recognizable Zentradi ship alongside the Zentradi-styled Earth ships sufficed as visual shorthand for an Earth-Zentradi fleet.  We do see in later titles that the New UN Forces operate most of the familiar classes of Zentradi ship.

 

16 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Between this and the VF-19C/MG21 I like the little designation distinctions Frontier introduced with local variants. Makes me wonder what'd it look like if a planet did something along the likes. Lets say, since Volor's VF-171s and Zola's VF-5000Gs were a tad different from the regular builds, would those be the VF-171/Volor or something like VF-5000G/Z?

My guess would be they'd retain whatever designation the original emigrant fleet that settled the planet had... barring some weird corner case where multiple planets were settled by a single fleet.

It possibly wouldn't apply to something like the Zola Patrol's VF-5000s and VF-19, as those were supposedly export models.

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It possibly wouldn't apply to something like the Zola Patrol's VF-5000s and VF-19, as those were supposedly export models.

And would I be correct in assuming the VF-19's were monkey models but the VF-5000's weren't?

[network19]

At what time of the year does Sunrise typically start releasing teaser trailers for their upcoming animes?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

And would I be correct in assuming the VF-19's were monkey models but the VF-5000's weren't?

Yeah.  According to Macross Chronicle, the Zola Patrol's fleet of VF-5000s (c.2047) are retired aircraft on loan to the Zolan government from the New UN Forces.

They're old military aircraft that've been refurbished and modified for non-military use, so they're not technically an export variant.

The VF-19P, VF-19EF, VF-19C/MG21... those are in the "monkey model" category as export variants with deliberately reduced capabilities.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, network19 said:

At what time of the year does Sunrise typically start releasing teaser trailers for their upcoming animes?

Whenever it's ready. It just depends. Announcements could be 6 months out. They could be 3 months out from premiere. It just depends.

And since you are asking on a Macross-specific site, the answer is, "No one knows." If you're holding your breathe for some kind of announcement, I would suggest finding a way to oxygenate your blood cuz you'll be holding your breathe for a long time.

[pengbuzz]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah.  According to Macross Chronicle, the Zola Patrol's fleet of VF-5000s (c.2047) are retired aircraft on loan to the Zolan government from the New UN Forces.

They're old military aircraft that've been refurbished and modified for non-military use, so they're not technically an export variant.

The VF-19P, VF-19EF, VF-19C/MG21... those are in the "monkey model" category as export variants with deliberately reduced capabilities.

Thanks for confirming that Seto. I admit that it does kind of put me off that Earth would want to retain the edge when it comes to fighters (not wanting the colonies to have as advanced tech as they do), but I can see where it would be necessary in case of rebellion or such.

[JB0]

13 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Thanks for confirming that Seto. I admit that it does kind of put me off that Earth would want to retain the edge when it comes to fighters (not wanting the colonies to have as advanced tech as they do), but I can see where it would be necessary in case of rebellion or such.

It isn't too different from real-world fighter jets in that regard. The countries that develop them keep the best stuff for themselves. Just ask anyone in NATO whose flag has less than 50 stars what it feels like to fly an F-22.

 

And it makes sense, given the transition from "Earth runs the galaxy" to "the colonies are more or less independent states". While the Sol system is still at the forefront of development and has more resources to work with, the colonies are more allied countries than they are part of one big happy expanded Earth. Occasionally the colonies go to war with each other, and someone wants to make darn sure they don't get ideas about trying that nonsense with the motherland.

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Thanks for confirming that Seto. I admit that it does kind of put me off that Earth would want to retain the edge when it comes to fighters (not wanting the colonies to have as advanced tech as they do), but I can see where it would be necessary in case of rebellion or such.

While Macross Dynamite 7 is set a few years after the New UN Government really started restricting arms exports to the emigrant governments in the wake of the Sharon Apple incident, it's probably not a major factor in the Zola Patrol's use of VF-5000s.  Zola's a remote and unimportant planet in the New UN Government's sphere of influence.  Its Zola Patrol is basically an anti-poaching law enforcement unit rather than a military force.  They don't need bleeding edge VFs because they're only squaring off against civilians with black market weapons intent on poaching galactic whales.  Getting a bunch of secondhand VFs on loan from Earth instead of investing a huge part of the planet's GDP buying a bunch of state-of-the-art export models makes a lot more sense for their less extreme needs.

 

2 hours ago, JB0 said:

It isn't too different from real-world fighter jets in that regard. The countries that develop them keep the best stuff for themselves. Just ask anyone in NATO whose flag has less than 50 stars what it feels like to fly an F-22.

 

And it makes sense, given the transition from "Earth runs the galaxy" to "the colonies are more or less independent states". While the Sol system is still at the forefront of development and has more resources to work with, the colonies are more allied countries than they are part of one big happy expanded Earth. Occasionally the colonies go to war with each other, and someone wants to make darn sure they don't get ideas about trying that nonsense with the motherland.

The export restrictions that gave rise to New UN Forces monkey models were a direct result of the Sharon Apple incident.  

It was only after Earth's next-generation fighter proved it could break through the defenses of the most heavily defended planet in the galaxy solo, the New UN Government started having second thoughts about letting everyone have it.  They were having little regional tiffs as humanity expanded into the galaxy, but the prospect of everyone having access to such powerful weapons able to stealth past planetary defenses and drop reaction bombs likely felt like opening Pandora's box.

[TG Remix]

On 12/4/2024 at 2:13 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

As to the Neo Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class battleships, I doubt their firepower eclipses the anti-fleet capabilities of a Battle-class with its Macross Cannon.

Guess it depends on if they also have the the main gun Britai's ship in DYRL has, which I assume would be present in the SDF version if it was given the chance to fire it.

 

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

While Macross Dynamite 7 is set a few years after the New UN Government really started restricting arms exports to the emigrant governments in the wake of the Sharon Apple incident, it's probably not a major factor in the Zola Patrol's use of VF-5000s.  Zola's a remote and unimportant planet in the New UN Government's sphere of influence.  Its Zola Patrol is basically an anti-poaching law enforcement unit rather than a military force.  They don't need bleeding edge VFs because they're only squaring off against civilians with black market weapons intent on poaching galactic whales.  Getting a bunch of secondhand VFs on loan from Earth instead of investing a huge part of the planet's GDP buying a bunch of state-of-the-art export models makes a lot more sense for their less extreme needs.

Always liked the idea of VFs being used in other law enforcement roles than just planetary or escort fleets, it would make sense something of the sort would exist in more local areas. The closest we really got other then City 7's Patroids was the Zentradi Marine garrison and Destroid unit in Al-Shahal; granted those are NUNS but in a world of giants roaming about and civillians having their own fighter jets, I think a "military police" isn't that extreme or far out there.  Although I believe the plot of the cancelled Macross 3D VFX OVA was going to involve a police group investigating Zentradi related crimes, which from what little of the trailer showed, had VFs involved.

 

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They were having little regional tiffs as humanity expanded into the galaxy, but the prospect of everyone having access to such powerful weapons able to stealth past planetary defenses and drop reaction bombs likely felt like opening Pandora's box.

Thank you Isamu, making everything better and worse at the same time as always lol.

Edited December 6 by TG Remix

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

Guess it depends on if they also have the the main gun Britai's ship in DYRL has, which I assume would be present in the SDF version if it was given the chance to fire it.

Thus far, I don't think we have any evidence to suggest that it's based on the movie version.

 

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

Always liked the idea of VFs being used in other law enforcement roles than just planetary or escort fleets, it would make sense something of the sort would exist in more local areas. The closest we really got other then City 7's Patroids was the Zentradi Marine garrison and Destroid unit in Al-Shahal; granted those are NUNS but in a world of giants roaming about and civillians having their own fighter jets, I think a "military police" isn't that extreme or far out there.  Although I believe the plot of the cancelled Macross 3D VFX OVA was going to involve a police group investigating Zentradi related crimes, which from what little of the trailer showed, had VFs involved.

On the one hand, it is a neat idea.

On the other hand, I can kind of see why it probably isn't as commonplace as we'd think.  One of the main use cases for such a force would be policing giant Zentradi citizens, but there are precious few places in the galaxy where Zentradi are allowed to live as giants.  An armed revolt by giant Zentradi in 2030 led to Earth banning its Zentradi residents from living as giants.  Macross Frontier materials describe the titular fleet as very unusual for allowing Zentradi citizens to live as giants and even setting aside a dedicated residential area for them.  It probably wouldn't be unfair to describe that concession to giant Zentradi as a massive and showy display of wealth on the Frontier fleet's part, no doubt for the convenience of its fabulously wealthy Zentradi sponsor.  Giant Zentradi in New UN Gov't territory are mainly going to be soldiers, policed by the military, so a separate force isn't likely to be necessary in most places.

Civilian-owned Valkyries would potentially be a reason to have a small force like that.  We've only had a few stories with true civilian-owned Valkyries in them, so it's hard to know what the norm for those.  Macross the Ride's presentation of civilian Valkyries suggests that not only is there is a license requirement for operating a Valkyrie in general, but also that civilian-use Valkyries are generally not permitted to carry live weapons.  Macross 30 makes it explicit that arming a civilian-use Valkyrie in Uroboros's jurisdiction, where that kind of thing is actually allowed, requires special permits/licenses/insurances only obtainable via registration as a mercenary with the Hunter's Guild and passing an exam.  The Guild can presumably just slap a bounty on any badly behaved individuals and as we see in the game the guild chairwoman is not above wading in with her own ultra high-spec Valkyrie a (VF-27γ).  So the one place we know of where it's legal to most people to have an armed civilian Valkyrie is also the one place where there's a substantial presence of civilian VFs used for security services by Hunter's Guild mercs.

So most places, I feel like there probably wouldn't be a ton of call for a police-use giant robot.  Anything in space is going to be the military's business, and unarmed models in an emigrant ship can probably be brought down fairly quick with adhesive rounds from man-portable missile launchers and light tanks similar to what the Zola Patrol uses on their VF-5000s.

 

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

Thank you Isamu, making everything better and worse at the same time as always lol.

It was probably inevitable once the NUNS figured out exactly how good the VF-19 was... they were bound to run a test of it against their own defenses at some point during the phase-in process.  Isamu just preempted that test in the showiest way possible.