The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[sketchley]

31 minutes ago, RaisingCane said:

I always thought Miyatake put more thought than that into his ship designs.  I mean, the top-down view of that area certainly looks like the bridge module was separated to make room for whatever that helipad-looking circle is.

That's very true.  The "helipad" may have been put there for use during construction and (in-universe) the spot was chosen because it was way up top and wide open.

Personally, I think it was a greeble added because of 'rule of cool'—something that showed up in highly-detailed shots, but wasn't necessary when drawing at a distance (aside from describing form).

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, DewPoint said:

Off center bridges can aid in things such as navigating tight passages and in docking operations.  As the SDF-1's bridge isn't off center enough, I'm guessing that there is no real functional reason.  So it's the rule of cool! 

Of course, for off-center bridges on large military ships is typically to make room for a carrier deck... but the Macross doesn't have one of those.

 

10 hours ago, RaisingCane said:

I always thought Miyatake put more thought than that into his ship designs.  I mean, the top-down view of that area certainly looks like the bridge module was separated to make room for whatever that helipad-looking circle is.

Quite a bit of thought was put into the Macross's design... but I suspect you're overthinking it.  Most of the commentary on the bridge is related to how the design evolved from its "the Macross is a giant Gundam" origin to its present form.  The two sides of the bridge tower docking at the end of the transformation seems like a little stylistic touch to cap the transformation.

 

10 hours ago, RaisingCane said:

Misa's shuttle didn't take off from the Prometheus in Episode 24 "Good-bye Girl," so maybe the ship's command staff has a launch bay (and landing area) of their own that's situated close to the bridge?

The Macross would naturally have some bays for its own auxiliary craft, but there's no guarantee that it's anywhere near the bridge.  It's a BIG ship.

[pengbuzz]

As to the bridge and the "helipad" some have described: one thought I have is that if command staff are embarking or disembarking from the ship, it might be a good idea to have an auxiliary landing pad/ area so they don't have to traverse the ship to get to them. It would certainly make it a bit easier on the legs!

[Seto Kaiba]

30 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

As to the bridge and the "helipad" some have described: one thought I have is that if command staff are embarking or disembarking from the ship, it might be a good idea to have an auxiliary landing pad/ area so they don't have to traverse the ship to get to them. It would certainly make it a bit easier on the legs!

Granted, it's a big ship... but it's a ship so big that the crew frequently use cars to transport men and materiel through it.

On a fair number of occasions, we see pilots and other personnel using the M-299 Sugarfoot to get around inside the ship.  It's probably not an obstacle to have an actual goddamn staff car driving through the ship's corridors too.

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Granted, it's a big ship... but it's a ship so big that the crew frequently use cars to transport men and materiel through it.

On a fair number of occasions, we see pilots and other personnel using the M-299 Sugarfoot to get around inside the ship.  It's probably not an obstacle to have an actual goddamn staff car driving through the ship's corridors too.

That reminds me of this scene from Spaceballs:

 

 

[RaisingCane]

How do you all feel about the laser cannons that are pretty unambiguously located in the Valkyries' noses?

[Seto Kaiba]

11 minutes ago, RaisingCane said:

How do you all feel about the laser cannons that are pretty unambiguously located in the Valkyries' noses?

Those are, officially, an animation error.  The blisters on either side of the VF-1's nose contain camera systems incl. infrared sensors.

Super Dimension Fortress Macross, like many shows of its era, was hand-drawn and to help meet deadlines studios often subcontracted out animation work to other studios for "production cooperation".  Tatsunoko Production, the main studio, contracted some of the animation work out to AnimeFriend and StarPro.  StarPro was, IIRC, responsible for a great deal of the off-model animation in the series.

The "R-word" series made the animation error canon to its setting.

[Bolt]

StarPro is infamous for what they did to Macross. On a number of occasions.

[RaisingCane]

I guess that explains why Milia went from this...

...to this...

...in the span of only two episodes.

[pengbuzz]

59 minutes ago, RaisingCane said:

I guess that explains why Milia went from this...

...to this...

...in the span of only two episodes.

Looks like the micloning process wasn't very kind to her!

  

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Those are, officially, an animation error.  The blisters on either side of the VF-1's nose contain camera systems incl. infrared sensors.

Super Dimension Fortress Macross, like many shows of its era, was hand-drawn and to help meet deadlines studios often subcontracted out animation work to other studios for "production cooperation".  Tatsunoko Production, the main studio, contracted some of the animation work out to AnimeFriend and StarPro.  StarPro was, IIRC, responsible for a great deal of the off-model animation in the series.

The "R-word" series made the animation error canon to its setting.

And they didn't do much damage in the RPG...

Edited September 19, 2022 by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, RaisingCane said:

I guess that explains why Milia went from this...

...to this...

...in the span of only two episodes.

Yup.  These are the occupational hazards of farming out animation work to multiple studios on a tight timetable... and back then they had to consider shipping times between the different supporting studios, some of which (esp. ones specializing in manpower-intensive work like tweening) were located in Korea.  Redrawing often wasn't on the table.

 

52 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

And they didn't do much damage in the RPG...

True, though that's more the fault of the game's publisher.

Palladium Books's staff are undeniably passionate about their games, but when it comes to their licensed games their work is often rather wide of the mark accuracy-wise.  That wasn't their fault in the first version of their R-word licensed game since they were flying blind with no help from the people they licensed the rights from.  They did marginally better with the second version and the Macross II game, but in all three cases the content of the books is only vaguely representative of the content of the show at best and both weapon damage values and armor values were arbitrary or completely contradictory.

[RaisingCane]

Will the full realization that we're discussing fictional (alien) technology in an alternate future, how do the latest VFs in the main continuity stack up against their counterparts in the M2 continuity as of now?

[Seto Kaiba]

12 minutes ago, RaisingCane said:

Will the full realization that we're discussing fictional (alien) technology in an alternate future, how do the latest VFs in the main continuity stack up against their counterparts in the M2 continuity as of now?

It is difficult to say, because technology developed very differently between the two settings.

Human overtechnology in the Macross II: Lovers Again timeline developed at a more conservative pace than the main/ongoing Macross timeline's did in many respects.  Reverse-engineering the technologies left behind by the ancient Protoculture played a much bigger role in Macross II's timeline, with progress being made at a slower pace overall but with several periods of extremely rapid advancement in the wake of capturing a new factory satellite or other ancient Protoculture device.  The Macross II timeline's UN Forces used a good deal more Zentradi and Meltrandi overtechnology in their military hardware, where the main Macross timeline's New UN Forces relied mainly on reproducing the technology themsleves and using the reproductions.  The two settings are also rather different strategically, with the Macross II setting's UN Forces adopting more Zentradi-esque strategies centered around fleets of battleships where the main Macross timeline's New UN Forces adopted a carrier-centric strategy more closely resembling modern Navy practice.

Consequently, Valkyries developed in those timelines had rather different design priorities.  The main Macross timeline's Valkyries frequently prioritized stealth and evasion due in part to the New UN Forces standard approach to Zentradi fleets being avoidance.  The Macross II timeline's Valkyries instead prioritized durability, survivability, and firepower as a part of a defense-oriented strategic doctrine supported by the Minmay Attack (later retitled the Minmay Defense).  The Macross II Valkyries like the VF-2SS Valkyrie II have quite a bit less in the raw engine thrust department than main timeline Valkyries, being about on par with the VF-11 in terms of flight performance and they're not built for stealth.  Rather, their design emphasis is on high agility though large numbers of verniers, sub-engines, etc., on maximizing generator output, and on using that generator output to deliver a lot of firepower with direct-fire weapons.  The Macross II version of the VF-4 was upgraded with a substantially powerful beam gunpod and funnels armed with beam guns (yes, like the ones in Gundam, but computer-controlled like 00's Fangs).  The Valkyrie II series had coaxial beam cannons on the monitor turret and went in for railguns for its gunpod and for a large anti-capital ship cannon on its Super Armed Pack.  It was also outfitted with Bits (again, like Gundam, but minus the psycommu) that were armed with multiple beam guns.  Firepower-wise, they may actually exceed the main timeline's Valkyries in some areas since the main timeline has yet to mount a true/pure railgun system on a Valkyrie... those railgun weapons in the main timeline are using electromagnetic rails as an assist to boost the firepower of chemically-propelled rounds where Macross II's railguns are entirely electromagnetic.  The amount of internally-carried missiles is about on par with 4th Gen Valkyries like the VF-19 or VF-22, with the Valkyrie II having six long-range missiles and fifty-four micro-missiles.

Under the hood, there are some similarities as well like the Valkyrie II having a g-force support armiture in the cockpit to help the pilot function under high g-loads similar to EX-Gear.  There is also mention of improved actuator technology involving keeping moving parts separated but aligned with electromagnetic forces that is vaguely similar to what's used in the main timeline's 5th Gen VFs for transformations, though noted to be used throughout the Valkyrie II's entire body.

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It is difficult to say, because technology developed very differently between the two settings.

Human overtechnology in the Macross II: Lovers Again timeline developed at a more conservative pace than the main/ongoing Macross timeline's did in many respects.  Reverse-engineering the technologies left behind by the ancient Protoculture played a much bigger role in Macross II's timeline, with progress being made at a slower pace overall but with several periods of extremely rapid advancement in the wake of capturing a new factory satellite or other ancient Protoculture device.  The Macross II timeline's UN Forces used a good deal more Zentradi and Meltrandi overtechnology in their military hardware, where the main Macross timeline's New UN Forces relied mainly on reproducing the technology themsleves and using the reproductions.  The two settings are also rather different strategically, with the Macross II setting's UN Forces adopting more Zentradi-esque strategies centered around fleets of battleships where the main Macross timeline's New UN Forces adopted a carrier-centric strategy more closely resembling modern Navy practice.

Consequently, Valkyries developed in those timelines had rather different design priorities.  The main Macross timeline's Valkyries frequently prioritized stealth and evasion due in part to the New UN Forces standard approach to Zentradi fleets being avoidance.  The Macross II timeline's Valkyries instead prioritized durability, survivability, and firepower as a part of a defense-oriented strategic doctrine supported by the Minmay Attack (later retitled the Minmay Defense).  The Macross II Valkyries like the VF-2SS Valkyrie II have quite a bit less in the raw engine thrust department than main timeline Valkyries, being about on par with the VF-11 in terms of flight performance and they're not built for stealth.  Rather, their design emphasis is on high agility though large numbers of verniers, sub-engines, etc., on maximizing generator output, and on using that generator output to deliver a lot of firepower with direct-fire weapons.  The Macross II version of the VF-4 was upgraded with a substantially powerful beam gunpod and funnels armed with beam guns (yes, like the ones in Gundam, but computer-controlled like 00's Fangs).  The Valkyrie II series had coaxial beam cannons on the monitor turret and went in for railguns for its gunpod and for a large anti-capital ship cannon on its Super Armed Pack.  It was also outfitted with Bits (again, like Gundam, but minus the psycommu) that were armed with multiple beam guns.  Firepower-wise, they may actually exceed the main timeline's Valkyries in some areas since the main timeline has yet to mount a true/pure railgun system on a Valkyrie... those railgun weapons in the main timeline are using electromagnetic rails as an assist to boost the firepower of chemically-propelled rounds where Macross II's railguns are entirely electromagnetic.  The amount of internally-carried missiles is about on par with 4th Gen Valkyries like the VF-19 or VF-22, with the Valkyrie II having six long-range missiles and fifty-four micro-missiles.

Under the hood, there are some similarities as well like the Valkyrie II having a g-force support armiture in the cockpit to help the pilot function under high g-loads similar to EX-Gear.  There is also mention of improved actuator technology involving keeping moving parts separated but aligned with electromagnetic forces that is vaguely similar to what's used in the main timeline's 5th Gen VFs for transformations, though noted to be used throughout the Valkyrie II's entire body.

So in a few ways, MII was ahead of its' time?

[TG Remix]

 

21 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The two settings are also rather different strategically, with the Macross II setting's UN Forces adopting more Zentradi-esque strategies centered around fleets of battleships where the main Macross timeline's New UN Forces adopted a carrier-centric strategy more closely resembling modern Navy practice.

It is also noticeable that even the UN-built battleships had a slight nod to the appearance of their captured Zentradi ships, where the ships from Plus-onwards follow a more linear progression of the UN designs from SDFM. Though I did hear a interesting theory in a comment from a Macross Mecha Manual FB post that in universe (since the regular stealth frigate was design prior by Kazutaka) the Zentradi-Type Northampton was built first before refitted with NUNS technology. Would make sense considering how up until the Plus/7 era most of their ships that weren't ARMD or the rare Oberth ships were either captured Zentradi ships or visually similar looking (like the M3 battleship)

 

21 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Consequently, Valkyries developed in those timelines had rather different design priorities.  The main Macross timeline's Valkyries frequently prioritized stealth and evasion due in part to the New UN Forces standard approach to Zentradi fleets being avoidance.  The Macross II timeline's Valkyries instead prioritized durability, survivability, and firepower as a part of a defense-oriented strategic doctrine supported by the Minmay Attack (later retitled the Minmay Defense). 

Think it's even more apparent that all of the current VF's in MII was based on the Zentradi Valkyrie, which was made for cultured Zentradi that became apart of the UN (Kinda like the VA-14/VF-14, funny enough.) At least with the VF-1->VF-11->VF-19->etc. the current series is a lot more linear in terms of VF design, as opposed to the Gundam esque "throw on the wall and see what sticks" mentality.

 

18 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

So in a few ways, MII was ahead of its' time?

 

In a way, maybe. MII was more focused on the "more guns" ideology that Kawamori ironically steered away from. Unless you count the odd Armored Packs that continues to pop up.

 

Though on the loose topic of VF design, I do wonder what was the VF-16 was at the very least, designed for. It's not like the other unknown designs (VF-5, VA-14, VAB-2) where we knew what role they held, but aside from a plot device for the VF-11MAXL Custom, I'm not sure if it was supposed to be in wide numbers like the VF-11, or a special forces unit.

Edited September 20, 2022 by TG Remix
Added a extra sentence

[Seto Kaiba]

19 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

So in a few ways, MII was ahead of its' time?

In a few ways, yes... mainly ones inspired by certain early 90's trends like pop culture's sudden and intense interest in railguns driven by the media attention on a US military railgun project that was announced around that time.  Several other items are inspired by Gundam, which several OVA staffers had previously worked on.  (Let us just say that is is not an accident that Feff's ace custom Gigamesh has a horn, a bright red paintjob, and is faster and more agile than the standard type.  Fortunately, he does not have a younger sister as far as we know.)

 

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

It is also noticeable that even the UN-built battleships had a slight nod to the appearance of their captured Zentradi ships, where the ships from Plus-onwards follow a more linear progression of the UN designs from SDFM.

In all fairness, the Macross II UN Spacy fleets defending Earth were made up in large part of captured and refurbished/upgraded Zentradi warships.  

Macross II's Earth had a lot more trouble with the Zentradi, with remnants of the Boddole Zer fleet showing up to bother the planet every few years (later tailing off to about once a decade) provided a LOT of "free" secondhand Zentradi warships alongside defecting Zentradi soldiers.  Add to that defectors and remnants from the four other main fleets the UN Forces encountered and actually beat in the years between 2010 and 2092, that's a LOT of surplus Zentradi hardware piling up and just begging to be put to use.  That's why there are structures in Macross City that are clearly Zentradi ships that've been built into/over, huge numbers of upgraded Zentradi ships in the Spacy's fleets, and a new class of ship in the fleet that is literally four modified Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleships reengineered and upgunned to be cannons on a massive transformable gunship.  Earth's original designs seem to mostly be their own takes on Meltrandi designs.  The Gloria's silhouette is strongly reminiscent of the Meltrandi fleet command battleship and the heavy battleship Heracles and her sister ships appear to be an Earth take on Meltrandi gunboats.

(Macross II's timeline did also carry forward the ARMD-style design... in the 2030s, a new ARMD-type warship called the Daedalus II-class was introduced and played a large role in the Zentradi invasions of 2036 and 2037.  And yes, with that name, it does EXACTLY what you are thinking it does.)

 

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

Though I did hear a interesting theory in a comment from a Macross Mecha Manual FB post that in universe (since the regular stealth frigate was design prior by Kazutaka) the Zentradi-Type Northampton was built first before refitted with NUNS technology. Would make sense considering how up until the Plus/7 era most of their ships that weren't ARMD or the rare Oberth ships were either captured Zentradi ships or visually similar looking (like the M3 battleship)

TBH, I doubt it.  The New UN Forces in the main Macross timeline are somewhat gunshy about adopting large amounts of Zentradi overtechnology.  They almost always pass on General Galaxy's more Zentradi tech-intensive designs in favor of Shinsei Industry's more conservative ones.

Available evidence suggests that, in the main Macross timeline, humanity rolled out a BUNCH of ARMD II-class ships (the movie ARMD version) after the war and accompanied it with a bunch of new ship classes that mainly show up in the games like the Algenicus-type stealth cruiser.  Of course, the Guantanamo-class is also technically an ARMD.

 

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

Think it's even more apparent that all of the current VF's in MII was based on the Zentradi Valkyrie, which was made for cultured Zentradi that became apart of the UN (Kinda like the VA-14/VF-14, funny enough.) At least with the VF-1->VF-11->VF-19->etc. the current series is a lot more linear in terms of VF design, as opposed to the Gundam esque "throw on the wall and see what sticks" mentality.

Eh...you're a bit wide of the mark there.

The VF-XX wasn't built solely for cultured Zentradi.  It was the proof-of-concept for the Valkyrie II series and supposedly widely used in the transitional period of the 2060s when the VF-2 series was being developed.  It's a "Zentradi Valkyrie" mainly in the sense that it uses a lot of tech from the Nousjadeul-Ger and is basically a transformable battle suit.

 

 

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

In a way, maybe. MII was more focused on the "more guns" ideology that Kawamori ironically steered away from. Unless you count the odd Armored Packs that continues to pop up.

It wasn't really "more guns" so much as "better guns"... the VF-2SS Valkyrie II w/ Super Armed Pack is basically just a 90's futuristic take on the VF-1S Strike Valkyrie.  It's a lot more sleek and rounded, but the essentials are all there.  The lasers got swapped for beam cannons, but you've got a large anti-warship gun, a handful of long-range missiles, and a lot of micromissiles.  It's just in a sleeker, more compact package.  It's even got almost exactly the same number of missiles.  (6 fewer micro-missiles and 2 more long-range ones in their place.)

 

1 hour ago, TG Remix said:

Though on the loose topic of VF design, I do wonder what was the VF-16 was at the very least, designed for. It's not like the other unknown designs (VF-5, VA-14, VAB-2) where we knew what role they held, but aside from a plot device for the VF-11MAXL Custom, I'm not sure if it was supposed to be in wide numbers like the VF-11, or a special forces unit.

About all we can say for certain is that from its designation it was probably a late Gen 3 design and one of the first to adopt thermonuclear reaction turbine engines.

[pengbuzz]

On 9/20/2022 at 9:23 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

In a few ways, yes... mainly ones inspired by certain early 90's trends like pop culture's sudden and intense interest in railguns driven by the media attention on a US military railgun project that was announced around that time.  Several other items are inspired by Gundam, which several OVA staffers had previously worked on.  (Let us just say that is is not an accident that Feff's ace custom Gigamesh has a horn, a bright red paintjob, and is faster and more agile than the standard type.  Fortunately, he does not have a younger sister as far as we know.)

 

In all fairness, the Macross II UN Spacy fleets defending Earth were made up in large part of captured and refurbished/upgraded Zentradi warships.  

Macross II's Earth had a lot more trouble with the Zentradi, with remnants of the Boddole Zer fleet showing up to bother the planet every few years (later tailing off to about once a decade) provided a LOT of "free" secondhand Zentradi warships alongside defecting Zentradi soldiers.  Add to that defectors and remnants from the four other main fleets the UN Forces encountered and actually beat in the years between 2010 and 2092, that's a LOT of surplus Zentradi hardware piling up and just begging to be put to use.  That's why there are structures in Macross City that are clearly Zentradi ships that've been built into/over, huge numbers of upgraded Zentradi ships in the Spacy's fleets, and a new class of ship in the fleet that is literally four modified Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleships reengineered and upgunned to be cannons on a massive transformable gunship.  Earth's original designs seem to mostly be their own takes on Meltrandi designs.  The Gloria's silhouette is strongly reminiscent of the Meltrandi fleet command battleship and the heavy battleship Heracles and her sister ships appear to be an Earth take on Meltrandi gunboats.

(Macross II's timeline did also carry forward the ARMD-style design... in the 2030s, a new ARMD-type warship called the Daedalus II-class was introduced and played a large role in the Zentradi invasions of 2036 and 2037.  And yes, with that name, it does EXACTLY what you are thinking it does.)

 

TBH, I doubt it.  The New UN Forces in the main Macross timeline are somewhat gunshy about adopting large amounts of Zentradi overtechnology.  They almost always pass on General Galaxy's more Zentradi tech-intensive designs in favor of Shinsei Industry's more conservative ones.

Available evidence suggests that, in the main Macross timeline, humanity rolled out a BUNCH of ARMD II-class ships (the movie ARMD version) after the war and accompanied it with a bunch of new ship classes that mainly show up in the games like the Algenicus-type stealth cruiser.  Of course, the Guantanamo-class is also technically an ARMD.

 

Eh...you're a bit wide of the mark there.

The VF-XX wasn't built solely for cultured Zentradi.  It was the proof-of-concept for the Valkyrie II series and supposedly widely used in the transitional period of the 2060s when the VF-2 series was being developed.  It's a "Zentradi Valkyrie" mainly in the sense that it uses a lot of tech from the Nousjadeul-Ger and is basically a transformable battle suit.

 

 

It wasn't really "more guns" so much as "better guns"... the VF-2SS Valkyrie II w/ Super Armed Pack is basically just a 90's futuristic take on the VF-1S Strike Valkyrie.  It's a lot more sleek and rounded, but the essentials are all there.  The lasers got swapped for beam cannons, but you've got a large anti-warship gun, a handful of long-range missiles, and a lot of micromissiles.  It's just in a sleeker, more compact package.  It's even got almost exactly the same number of missiles.  (6 fewer micro-missiles and 2 more long-range ones in their place.)

 

About all we can say for certain is that from its designation it was probably a late Gen 3 design and one of the first to adopt thermonuclear reaction turbine engines.

It would be interesting to revisit MII at some point and see what an "updated" UNS fleet and valks would look like 40+ years from the series.

[darkranger12]

One wonders if the Varja are now our friends or did they just go off to the Andromeda Galaxy to mate.   Also they sorta did give us a way to communicate...unfortunately as we saw in Delta that can be exploited.

 

 

[azrael]

3 hours ago, darkranger12 said:

One wonders if the Varja are now our friends or did they just go off to the Andromeda Galaxy to mate.   Also they sorta did give us a way to communicate...unfortunately as we saw in Delta that can be exploited.

Vajra are not humanity's friends. Nor are they enemies. Like any good bee hive, they decided we're too nosy and decided to pack up and go somewhere where they can live in peace and quiet. 

No they didn't give us a way to communicate with them. Humanity kinda guess that themselves. And don't call them. They'll call us.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, darkranger12 said:

One wonders if the Varja are now our friends or did they just go off to the Andromeda Galaxy to mate.  

As alien as the Vajra are, it's probably pretty difficulty to determine what their exact feelings towards humanity as a whole are.

They're obviously not an allied power the way the Zentradi, Zolans, etc. are.  I guess you could call it something closer to "good fences make good neighbors"?  The Vajra hive that the Frontier and Galaxy fleets were messing with cleared out and left humanity to its own devices, but other Vajra swarms in Macross 30 and other works seem content to at least live-and-let-live with humanity in the greater galaxy.  (There are Vajra on Uroboros in 2060, and on Pipure in 2062.)

 

6 hours ago, darkranger12 said:

Also they sorta did give us a way to communicate...unfortunately as we saw in Delta that can be exploited.

Maybe they did... but probably not.

The theory that Macross Delta presents for the origins of Var syndrome and fold receptors doesn't tally with any previous Macross works on the subject of biological fold waves or the properties of coexisting with the V-type bacterium.

In Macross Frontier (all versions), being infected with the V-type bacterium is fatal unless the infection is confined to your entric nervous system.  Sheryl was dying from having the V-type bacteria living in her brain in the series, and in her vocal cords in the movies.  Macross Delta depicts the fold bacteria that live symbiotically with humans living in their brain tissue, which would be deadly if it were the same thing.  Not to mention this alleged migration of fold bacteria into humans allegedly occurred in 2059, but humans with fold wave abilities existed for millennia before that (e.g. the priestesses in Zero).  The ability just wasn't understood or codified until Dr. Gadget M. Chiba's Song Energy theory was proven in 2045, and was further refined by the work of other researchers like Zola's Dr. Lawrence and Dr. Elma Hoyly, and the researchers at Frontier's LAI branch.

[cheemingwan1234]

Okay, how did the J variant of the VF-1 ended up being assigned to squadron leaders? Given that the main manufacturer is located in Japan, should there be more VF-1Js assigned to grunts relatively speaking in Japan?

 

And how strong is a VF compared to a marclone in a fistfight. Can a VF literally punch holes clean through a Zentraedi with just their bare hands?

Edited September 29, 2022 by cheemingwan1234

[Seto Kaiba]

25 minutes ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Okay, how did the J variant of the VF-1 ended up being assigned to squadron leaders?

For the most part, it didn't.

Very few VF-1J's were manufacturered overall, and most materials to discuss the topic suggest almost all of them ended up out in space with the Macross during the First Space War.  The crew of the Macross's usage of the VF-1J as a machine for platoon leaders seems to have been either unique to the Macross or very limited in its application elsewhere due to the comparative scarcity of the VF-1J. 

Presumably the crew of the Macross (TV series) decided that giving the J type to platoon leaders would be the best use of what was advertised as an enhanced armaments type.

 

25 minutes ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Given that the main manufacturer is located in Japan, should there be more VF-1Js assigned to grunts relatively speaking in Japan?

Not as such. 

Shinnakasu Heavy Industry developed the VF-1J as a domestically-produced rival/competitor to Northrom's VF-1A, not as a dedicated machine for platoon leaders.  Some sources like Master File assert their actual goal was to actually get the Earth Unification Forces to drop Northrom's A-type for the "better" J-type as the standard model.  Unfortunately, their total production capacity was low and very few VF-1J's had been delivered when the First Space War broke out.  Almost all of those units ended up out in space with the Macross, and the production facilities were destroyed in the orbital bombardment.

In the movie version, even fewer J-types were aboard the Macross and those were mostly assigned to special duty like deploying the Armored Pack.  (In some sources, this is said to be the result of a hardware/software compatibility issue, with the VF-1J being the only unit that had native support for the Armored Pack at the time.)

 

25 minutes ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

And how strong is a VF compared to a marclone in a fistfight. Can a VF literally punch holes clean through a Zentraedi with just their bare hands?

Probably not.  The VF-1 is physically quite strong, but it doesn't appear to be significantly stronger than a flesh-and-blood Zentradi giant.

[cheemingwan1234]

So I was wondering on something. Okay, if the VF-1D is ' just' a two seater VF-1 variant , why does it need  the extra firepower of a second head laser?

[twich]

Short answer, one control by student, one controlled by instructor

Twich

[BlueMax]

1 hour ago, twich said:

Short answer, one control by student, one controlled by instructor

Twich

Same reasoning for why there are 2 sets of eye cameras/ visors

[Shawn]

Check out the original VF-1D design, the VF-1C

IT even had the option for a horizontally split head so trainer/trainee could look/shoot at different things.

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

So I was wondering on something. Okay, if the VF-1D is ' just' a two seater VF-1 variant , why does it need  the extra firepower of a second head laser?

 

Information about the VF-1D is surprisingly scarce.

In part, this is because the VF-1D was a surprisingly short-lived variant that was improvised on short notice as a model conversion trainer.  Some sources (incl. Master File) allege that the few VF-1D units produced were converted from VF-1A's rather than purpose-built.  They were replaced by a purpose-built training model (VT-1 Ostrich) starting from Block 6.

The origin of the two laser cannons is probably the original design having the two sections of the head pivot independently.  There hasn't been, as far as I'm aware, anything like a cut-and-dry official in-universe explanation for the VF-1D having two laser cannons in its final form.  There was, for a time, a school of thought that the A-type's single laser wasn't enough firepower.  It's more likely that the D-type head was simply cobbled together out of "off the shelf" parts from other variants given its improvised origin.

 

29 minutes ago, BlueMax said:

Same reasoning for why there are 2 sets of eye cameras/ visors

That was almost certainly the reason when the draft design allowed the two cameras to pivot independently (see @Shawn's post).

The final design's explanation is a bit different.  One camera is a normal Valkyrie sensor suite and the other is a wide-area unit used for recording training exercises for analysis.

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, Shawn said:

Check out the original VF-1D design, the VF-1C

IT even had the option for a horizontally split head so trainer/trainee could look/shoot at different things.

 

 

Would insta-buy a finished and painted proto-type VF-1C head....then again, been waiting for someone to make one available for the MtF VF-1D...

[Bolt]

On 9/29/2022 at 6:21 AM, cheemingwan1234 said:

And how strong is a VF compared to a marclone in a fistfight. Can a VF literally punch holes clean through a Zentraedi with just their bare hands?

Hikaru's VF-1J wasn't strong enough to escape being pinned from behind In SDFM. When they were captured aboard the Zentradi cruiser.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

Would insta-buy a finished and painted proto-type VF-1C head....then again, been waiting for someone to make one available for the MtF VF-1D...

Did anyone ever do one for the MtF J Kai head?

[jvmacross]

56 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Did anyone ever do one for the MtF J Kai head?

 

[cheemingwan1234]

17 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

Information about the VF-1D is surprisingly scarce.

In part, this is because the VF-1D was a surprisingly short-lived variant that was improvised on short notice as a model conversion trainer.  Some sources (incl. Master File) allege that the few VF-1D units produced were converted from VF-1A's rather than purpose-built.  They were replaced by a purpose-built training model (VT-1 Ostrich) starting from Block 6.

The origin of the two laser cannons is probably the original design having the two sections of the head pivot independently.  There hasn't been, as far as I'm aware, anything like a cut-and-dry official in-universe explanation for the VF-1D having two laser cannons in its final form.  There was, for a time, a school of thought that the A-type's single laser wasn't enough firepower.  It's more likely that the D-type head was simply cobbled together out of "off the shelf" parts from other variants given its improvised origin.

 

That was almost certainly the reason when the draft design allowed the two cameras to pivot independently (see @Shawn's post).

The final design's explanation is a bit different.  One camera is a normal Valkyrie sensor suite and the other is a wide-area unit used for recording training exercises for analysis.

Good way to spell premature structual fatigue though since you are introducing another point of failure.

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, cheemingwan1234 said:

Good way to spell premature structual fatigue though since you are introducing another point of failure.

Considering that the VF-1's structural frame and the composite used for its armor are both made of ludicrously tough Overtechnology Materials (called "space metal" in the oldest TV series material, and "hypercarbon" from DYRL? on) said to be a hundred times as strong as armor-grade steel, I'd be inclined to suspect that structural fatigue is not high on the maintenance crew's list of concerns.  Especially once you factor in the additional increase in structural strength when the energy conversion armor is active, and the VF-1D's being short-term stopgaps for the soon-to-be-delivered, built-for-purpose VT-1 Ostrich.

[RaisingCane]

Where did they get all that space metal to build their mecha though?  Were the other first generation UN Spacy warships made of it too?

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, RaisingCane said:

Where did they get all that space metal to build their mecha though?  Were the other first generation UN Spacy warships made of it too?

They made it themselves.

It's not a finite natural resource, it's a manufactured synthetic material.  OTEC's study of Alien StarShip 1's technology extended not just to its many sci-fi gizmos, bu to the materials used to make them or essential to their operation.  They studied the material and experimented with methods of reproducing it until they succeeded.  The same goes for all of the fold carbon used in the thermonuclear reactors of the Valkyries, Destroids, etc.  They reproduced the fold carbon they found in Alien StarShip 1's systems as best they could to make those systems work the same way.