The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[sketchley]

Macross itself has some specific words for the different types of vehicles:

Human side:

• Battroid (mainly the humanoid form of the Variable Fighters)
• Destroids (humanoid walking tanks)

Zentrādi side:

• Battlesuits (humanoid shaped pods)
• Pods (everything not a Battlesuit)
• Mobile Weapons (all of the above)

 

So, going back to the OP, the Kerukaria [Quel-Quallie] and Recovery Pod can be referred to as "(Zentrādi) mecha", "(Zentrādi) Mobile Weapons", or "Zentrādi Pods".

 

 

[Brofessor]

The wikipedia page for Mecha is pretty informative as far as the etymology of the word in the first few paragraphs there. It is a Japanese word meaning machine in the broadest definition and "giant robot" in the narrowest definition. The wiki seems to imply the term "mecha" does not exist in Japan. Japan uses the word "robot anime" and not "mecha anime." I would assume the English word "mecha," derived from the Japanese word, is strictly used for fictional machines.

[Invid99]

11 hours ago, sketchley said:

Macross itself has some specific words for the different types of vehicles:

Human side:

• Battroid (mainly the humanoid form of the Variable Fighters)
• Destroids (humanoid walking tanks)

Zentrādi side:

• Battlesuits (humanoid shaped pods)
• Pods (everything not a Battlesuit)
• Mobile Weapons (all of the above)

 

So, going back to the OP, the Kerukaria [Quel-Quallie] and Recovery Pod can be referred to as "(Zentrādi) mecha", "(Zentrādi) Mobile Weapons", or "Zentrādi Pods".

 

 

I don't know if this was intentionally done. But I notice that almost all the mechanics that are classified as ''Pods'' has a cyclops visior. Except for the re-entry landing craft. 

 

[Biomaster]

21 hours ago, Invid99 said:

I don't know if this was intentionally done. But I notice that almost all the mechanics that are classified as ''Pods'' has a cyclops visior. Except for the re-entry landing craft. 

I believe this reflects the commonality of the Zentraedi mechanics. The Glaug and the Reguld have the same slit shaped camera, and so does the Salvage Ship. Likely the same model there. The Quei-Quallie and the Gnerl have different designs. Now why would they choose a similar design everywhere? Well the obvious answer would be easier maintenance, but the Zentraedi were said to understand very little besides operating them so... we don't know why really. 

[Sanity is Optional]

18 hours ago, Biomaster said:

I believe this reflects the commonality of the Zentraedi mechanics. The Glaug and the Reguld have the same slit shaped camera, and so does the Salvage Ship. Likely the same model there. The Quei-Quallie and the Gnerl have different designs. Now why would they choose a similar design everywhere? Well the obvious answer would be easier maintenance, but the Zentraedi were said to understand very little besides operating them so... we don't know why really. 

Speaking as an engineer: you use the same design everywhere because it works and designing a new one is a pain.

[Biomaster]

4 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Speaking as an engineer: you use the same design everywhere because it works and designing a new one is a pain.

Exactly. Even I, a non-engineer, know that much. You go for commonality and easy replacement. Now what is really baffling is the fact we know the Zentraedi actually knew next-to-nothing about mechanics besides operating their spaceships and power suits. Hell, the small enclosed room Britai used for the first two thirds of SDF never got repaired after the big breakout of Hikaru and co. So either the earlier Zentraedi actually knew about mechanics, designed every single pod and forgot about them, or the factory satellites run off pre-existing Protoculture blueprints the Zentraedi never bothered to examine. 

[Master Dex]

5 hours ago, Biomaster said:

Exactly. Even I, a non-engineer, know that much. You go for commonality and easy replacement. Now what is really baffling is the fact we know the Zentraedi actually knew next-to-nothing about mechanics besides operating their spaceships and power suits. Hell, the small enclosed room Britai used for the first two thirds of SDF never got repaired after the big breakout of Hikaru and co. So either the earlier Zentraedi actually knew about mechanics, designed every single pod and forgot about them, or the factory satellites run off pre-existing Protoculture blueprints the Zentraedi never bothered to examine. 

It's the latter, the Zentradi were designed to not know stuff like that and just use stuff made for them by the factory satellites. After the Protoculture were gone that stuff kept working making new stuff based on existing designs. Nothing changed or upgraded, just got replaced.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, Biomaster said:

Exactly. Even I, a non-engineer, know that much. You go for commonality and easy replacement. Now what is really baffling is the fact we know the Zentraedi actually knew next-to-nothing about mechanics besides operating their spaceships and power suits. Hell, the small enclosed room Britai used for the first two thirds of SDF never got repaired after the big breakout of Hikaru and co. So either the earlier Zentraedi actually knew about mechanics, designed every single pod and forgot about them, or the factory satellites run off pre-existing Protoculture blueprints the Zentraedi never bothered to examine. 

When the ancient Protoculture created the Zentradi to fight their wars for them, several measures were taken to ensure that the Zentradi wouldn't - or couldn't - turn on them.  They thoroughly indoctrinated the Zentradi to limit their thinking to matters within the strict military hierarchy created for them and instill obedience to the Protoculture's directives.  They also deliberately limited the education available to the Zentradi to the training needed to fulfill their military role and also forbade them any knowledge of (non-military) culture and creative/productive pursuits.

This left the Zentradi dependent on the Protoculture at the top of the chain of command for their literal and figurative marching orders, and on the factory satellites created for them for every aspect their logistical support from troop replacements to production of fresh weapons and ammunition.

You could say that the so-called "Lost" Zentradi who have not yet encountered Earth's culture see their technology as a series of black boxes.  They know that it works, and they know how to work it, but beyond that they have no real understanding of how it works or how to repair it when it breaks down.  To them, "it just works".

So even if the Zentradi were to actually examine their factory satellites and clap eyes on the "blueprints" for what it was making, it wouldn't mean a thing to them because they lack both the basic knowledge and frame of reference to properly understand what they're looking at.

 

52 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

It's the latter, the Zentradi were designed to not know stuff like that and just use stuff made for them by the factory satellites. After the Protoculture were gone that stuff kept working making new stuff based on existing designs. Nothing changed or upgraded, just got replaced.

It's not entirely true that there are no changes or upgrades.  Macross Chronicle's Mechanic Sheet for the Factory Satellite in the original series mentions that it has the some capacity to make incremental improvements to the standardized weapons it produces and has presumably been doing so for ~500,000 years.

[Biomaster]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

When the ancient Protoculture created the Zentradi to fight their wars for them, several measures were taken to ensure that the Zentradi wouldn't - or couldn't - turn on them.  They thoroughly indoctrinated the Zentradi to limit their thinking to matters within the strict military hierarchy created for them and instill obedience to the Protoculture's directives.  They also deliberately limited the education available to the Zentradi to the training needed to fulfill their military role and also forbade them any knowledge of (non-military) culture and creative/productive pursuits.

This left the Zentradi dependent on the Protoculture at the top of the chain of command for their literal and figurative marching orders, and on the factory satellites created for them for every aspect their logistical support from troop replacements to production of fresh weapons and ammunition.

You could say that the so-called "Lost" Zentradi who have not yet encountered Earth's culture see their technology as a series of black boxes.  They know that it works, and they know how to work it, but beyond that they have no real understanding of how it works or how to repair it when it breaks down.  To them, "it just works".

So even if the Zentradi were to actually examine their factory satellites and clap eyes on the "blueprints" for what it was making, it wouldn't mean a thing to them because they lack both the basic knowledge and frame of reference to properly understand what they're looking at. 

Now that I think about it, it was indeed the latter of the two options I mentioned in the TV series. Thanks for the memory rundown. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Biomaster

[TehPW]

This came across my feed yesterday and i watched (the clip art!) and while reading the subtitles, it occurred to me. Quazam states that one of his gunner's is due to RETIRE (an otherwise significant plot hole in the perceived society of the Zentradi). Retirement? Obviously, at the time, the whole concept of the Zentradi wasn't at the Mass Produced Disposable Soldier wasn't a thing yet (probably) so what was Retirement to a Zentradi? As is? Honorable suicide? Solent Green? or something else entirely, themed from 1981 Japanese society itself?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, TehPW said:

This came across my feed yesterday and i watched (the clip art!) and while reading the subtitles, it occurred to me. Quazam states that one of his gunner's is due to RETIRE (an otherwise significant plot hole in the perceived society of the Zentradi). Retirement? Obviously, at the time, the whole concept of the Zentradi wasn't at the Mass Produced Disposable Soldier wasn't a thing yet (probably) so what was Retirement to a Zentradi? As is? Honorable suicide? Solent Green? or something else entirely, themed from 1981 Japanese society itself?

Even in the original Macross TV series, the concept of the Zentradi was that they were an inconceivably huge clone army waging an unending space war with an inexhaustible supply of autonomously mass-produced expendable clone soldiers and war materiel.  It would be a few episodes before the series started to reveal that to the audience, however, and the series put more emphasis on them being "not so different" from humans where the later movie played up their alien-ness and made their origin as clones central to the movie Protoculture's downfall.

As to what constitutes "retirement" in a clone army that has no concept of nonmilitary life and an ethos of "it is in battle one finds life"... your guess is as good as mine.

The nicest possibility I can think of would be that the "retired" soldier is sent to the rear to train newly arrived replacement troops.

More likely, it's a euphemism for euthanasia and biomass recycling similar to how a micloning system "recycles" the user's old body after transferring their consciousness to the newly grown one. 

[pengbuzz]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

More likely, it's a euphemism for euthanasia and biomass recycling similar to how a micloning system "recycles" the user's old body after transferring their consciousness to the newly grown one. 

Hmmm...this makes me wonder if micloning could be used for some other stuff...such as replacing damaged bodies, or even retaining the DNA of a younger version so that aging could be deteated.

Simply transfer the consciousness to a younger body...

[no3Ljm]

22 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Hmmm...this makes me wonder if micloning could be used for some other stuff...such as replacing damaged bodies, or even retaining the DNA of a younger version so that aging could be deteated.

Simply transfer the consciousness to a younger body...

I think you're talking about a different anime -- Ghost In The Shell.  

 

[Seto Kaiba]

36 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Hmmm...this makes me wonder if micloning could be used for some other stuff...such as replacing damaged bodies, or even retaining the DNA of a younger version so that aging could be deteated.

Simply transfer the consciousness to a younger body...

Apparently not, given that cybernetics seems to be the method of choice even for things like replacing damaged/lost limbs.

Why it would have such a limitation when it's designed to replicate a humanoid body in all its intricate detail is unclear.

 

11 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

I think you're talking about a different anime -- Ghost In The Shell.  

Macross Galaxy basically went full Ghost in the Shell... so not as much as you'd think.

In the novelization of Macross Frontier, Macross VF-X2 antagonist Manfred Brando effectively Ghost in the Shell'd himself.  A digital copy of his consciousness created before he died in battle with the VF-X Ravens in 2051 is "living" in the Macross Galaxy fleet as a purely electronic life form and is actively involved in the fleet's implant network conspiracy.  Grace and a few others (incl. Manfred) make fairly liberal use of Motoko's favorite trick of remotely operating a cybernetic body from somewhere else too.

[no3Ljm]

45 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross Galaxy basically went full Ghost in the Shell... so not as much as you'd think.

In the novelization of Macross Frontier, Macross VF-X2 antagonist Manfred Brando effectively Ghost in the Shell'd himself.  A digital copy of his consciousness created before he died in battle with the VF-X Ravens in 2051 is "living" in the Macross Galaxy fleet as a purely electronic life form and is actively involved in the fleet's implant network conspiracy.  Grace and a few others (incl. Manfred) make fairly liberal use of Motoko's favorite trick of remotely operating a cybernetic body from somewhere else too.

Oops. I forgot about that. Hehehe.  Thanks @Seto Kaiba. 

 

[Scream Man]

Rewatching the Delta movie, and they mention that theres mention of how cloning was banned in the Spacy. since that was such a big part of how humanity survived SW1, is there any mention of why the practice was abandoned and made illegal? 

[Master Dex]

From what I recall cloning and some genetic engineering was used to beef up human population mostly for the emigration projects but after a bit (I think in the 2020s) genetic diseases started appearing as a result and by then they had enough numbers so they decided to put an end to the practice since they could continue the traditional way.

[NightmarePlus]

There were also issues popping up concerning hereditary diseases iirc

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, Scream Man said:

Rewatching the Delta movie, and they mention that theres mention of how cloning was banned in the Spacy. since that was such a big part of how humanity survived SW1, is there any mention of why the practice was abandoned and made illegal? 

The Spacy is the space forces branch of the New Unification Government's military.

What's mentioned in the movie is that the practice of cloning is prohibited under interstellar law/treaty.  

The New UN Government used the cloning technology it obtained from surviving Zentradi 118th Main Fleet defectors to carry out a large scale human cloning program that began in mid-2010 in order to duplicate individuals with valuable/essential skills and to accelerate the recovery of the human population to a sustainable level.  The program was terminated in 2030 when a sharp increase in recessive hereditary diseases was detected in children and traced back to the overuse of cloning.

The ban, at least as described, is more about the use of cloning technology for military purposes.

By any rational standard, Mikumo Guynemer is an experimental clone soldier created by Xaos at Lady M's order.  For all practical intents and purposes, she's a slave... and that's only the tip of the iceberg of awfulness surrounding her creation.

The ban on cloning was probably intended to prevent, and criminalize, exactly the kind of abhorrent human rights abuses that something like that inherently entails.

[Scream Man]

Gotcha, cheers

[Lexomatic]

Re: the sequence in which humanity learns about the Protoculture Epoch: some is revealed in the episodes, but are additional (and less cinematic) details provided by the setting materials? Are we told of a NUNS Ministry of Xenoarchaeology on Earth that coordinates research reports from the emigrant fleets? Which works with diplomats to gain access to Protoculture ruins in sovereign (Zolans, Windermereans, etc.) and emigrant fleet quasi-sovereign planetary claims?

(As a premise, this bears similarities to elements of Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis, but with a much larger cast of players. Yeah, that's probably the domain of doujinshi or at best cast audio dramas, rather than official animations. Romance between middle-aged bureaucrats in rival ministries -- who are not threatened with daily violent death -- fighting great battles over funding priorities -- and singing karaoke!)

In DYRL, it's "yay, we defeated Boddole Zer! But the galaxy has a thousand other fleets just as dangerous." In Macross 7, Exedol almost goes catatonic when he infers the Protodeviln have broken loose -- but there's no indication he had proactively warned humanity that "we might encounter this threat." Later, the fleet discovers the Protoculture infodump-installation. In Frontier, we learn there are "research" fleets -- presumably their remits would be astronomy, superdimension pathfinding, exobiology, xenoarchaeology and "this seems to be a regular Zentraedi patrol route." In Delta, the galaxy-telepathic network hijacked by the Windermere-Epsilon cabal has been interpreted by fans to be a last-ditch effort by a Protoculture remnant, but we don't get dates.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 minutes ago, Lexomatic said:

Re: the sequence in which humanity learns about the Protoculture Epoch: some is revealed in the episodes, but are additional (and less cinematic) details provided by the setting materials? Are we told of a NUNS Ministry of Xenoarchaeology on Earth that coordinates research reports from the emigrant fleets? Which works with diplomats to gain access to Protoculture ruins in sovereign (Zolans, Windermereans, etc.) and emigrant fleet quasi-sovereign planetary claims?

Yeah, there is a modest amount of additional information available in publications like Macross Chronicle and other artbooks.  Those publications never really spell out how much of the extra detail they're giving is known in-universe, though.

In Macross 7's backstory - via Macross 7 PLUS - there does appear to be some kind of dedicated investigatory body within the New UN Forces that is responsible for investigating any suspected or newly discovered Protoculture relics.  It's not entirely clear how they're organized, but they dispatched a Special Investigation Unit with the support of an elite Army unit (Blue Rhinoceros special forces team) under the command of Ivano Gunther, a staff officer from New UN Forces headquarters on Earth.  Of course, that went... poorly... when Gunther got ambitious and decided to pursue the investigation independently instead of reporting back to his superiors and ended up having his body hijacked by Gepernich.

That investigative body must still exist in some form in the 2060s, given that the New UN Forces command in the Brisingr cluster knew about the Sigur Berrentzs and had at least some understanding of what the Delta Wave System was and what it had the potential to do when they made the decision to drop a dimensional warhead on it.  (An assignment subsequently botched to hell and back by Wright Immelmann.)

 

3 minutes ago, Lexomatic said:

In DYRL, it's "yay, we defeated Boddole Zer! But the galaxy has a thousand other fleets just as dangerous."

At least to the main Macross timeline, DYRL? is an in-universe historical drama meant to hammer exactly that point home with all the subtlety of a half-brick to the head.  That the Zentradi are still a threat, and that there are thousands of other Main Fleets like Boddole Zer's kicking around.

 

3 minutes ago, Lexomatic said:

In Macross 7, Exedol almost goes catatonic when he infers the Protodeviln have broken loose -- but there's no indication he had proactively warned humanity that "we might encounter this threat."

Oh, that much is explained in multiple titles.  Even in the original series.

To the modern Zentradi, the events surrounding the fall of the Protoculture's Stellar Republic are literal ancient history that has faded into the realms of myth as pieces of the record are inevitably lost to time and the conditioned general disinterest the Zentradi have for matters outside of combat and military service.  One example cited early in the original series (ep5) by Exsedol is when he cites the directive to avoid the worlds populated by miclones, which we know from backstory materials was the Protoculture's general order prohibiting the Zentradi from interfering with the Protoculture's daily lives.

The Protodeviln are the Zentradi's most feared enemy, one that the Zentradi were unable to defeat and had been defeated by the Protoculture at terrible cost 500,000 years ago.  It was, to Exsedol, almost exactly like you or I discovering that a nigh-invincible world-ending monster from myth was actually quite real and loose in the world.  He had no reason to warn humanity that they might encounter the Protodeviln because, as far as he and the other Zentradi knew, the Protodeviln had been comprehensively defeated by the remnants of the ancient Protoculture in half a million years previously.

 

3 minutes ago, Lexomatic said:

In Frontier, we learn there are "research" fleets -- presumably their remits would be astronomy, superdimension pathfinding, exobiology, xenoarchaeology and "this seems to be a regular Zentraedi patrol route." In Delta, the galaxy-telepathic network hijacked by the Windermere-Epsilon cabal has been interpreted by fans to be a last-ditch effort by a Protoculture remnant, but we don't get dates.

The only exemplar of a research fleet we see was a privately sponsored affair (run by the Critical Path corporation) that was dispatched into Vajra space to study them after the New UN Government's disastrous first contact with them in 2040.  It was principally a xenobiology/xenoanthropology sort of affair meant to let humanity understand them as a species, to investigate the source of the fold quartz they possessed, and hopefully facilitate a future peace once humanity had enough understanding of them to communicate effectively.

The Delta Wave System in Macross Delta is pretty explicitly stated to be the Protoculture's attempt to un-f*ck the galaxy by linking everyone's consciousness into a hive mind.  The dates aren't given, of course, but it was heavily implied to be the last of the Protoculture's great works in their final surviving enclave before they went extinct.

[RedWolf]

It makes sense that military applications of Human cloning is forbidden. The NUN has similar law with military AI like Sharon Apple is forbidden. Early during colonization period Lost Zentradi use child Meltrandi clones to pilot Variable Glaugs.

Basically if it is Sapient don't make it for war. Which reminds me Colonel Barton making a Evil Series is likely illegal as well.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, RedWolf said:

It makes sense that military applications of Human cloning is forbidden. The NUN has similar law with military AI like Sharon Apple is forbidden. Early during colonization period Lost Zentradi use child Meltrandi clones to pilot Variable Glaugs.

Basically if it is Sapient don't make it for war. Which reminds me Colonel Barton making a Evil Series is likely illegal as well.

That's not why the New UN Government had outlawed bio-neural processors well before the Sharon Apple incident.

The reason that technology was banned was because it was dangerously unstable.  It was intended to improve the performance of unmanned fighters by allowing the non-sapient AI to react more flexibly and less predictably.  In practice, the bio-neural chips tended to become too unpredictable and exhibited dangerous unintended behaviors that were often linked to the chips developing self-preservation "instincts".  

It wasn't an ethical concern, it was a safety concern about a microprocessor technology that resulted in standard sci-fi computers-gone-rogue, much like Sharon Apple herself did in the wake of being fitted with one.

(Future attempts to improve the reliability and autonomous operation quality of unmanned fighters hinged on similar approaches to pre-bio-neural chip Sharon... virtual modeling of the human mind and personality.  In the Macross Frontier audio dramas, L.A.I. is working on a successor to the AIF-7 Ghost that uses human personality AI systems modeled on real people: Luca Angeloni, Alto Saotome, Michael Blanc, and Nanase Matsura.)

[pengbuzz]

22 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's not why the New UN Government had outlawed bio-neural processors well before the Sharon Apple incident.

The reason that technology was banned was because it was dangerously unstable.  It was intended to improve the performance of unmanned fighters by allowing the non-sapient AI to react more flexibly and less predictably.  In practice, the bio-neural chips tended to become too unpredictable and exhibited dangerous unintended behaviors that were often linked to the chips developing self-preservation "instincts".  

It wasn't an ethical concern, it was a safety concern about a microprocessor technology that resulted in standard sci-fi computers-gone-rogue, much like Sharon Apple herself did in the wake of being fitted with one.

I found this exchange between Marge Gueldoa and Reymond Marley (Sharon's Manager [?]) here: https://wiki2.org/en/Macross_Plus?s=Macross_Plus_Remastered_eng_srt  

----------------------

Raymond: How do you expect to make Sharon work?!

Marj: With a Bio/Neural chip.

Raymond: What?

Marj: I installed one in Sharon so she could learn on her own.

Raymond:  Even though they're illegal?! Those things contain a dangerous self-preservation base psychology! What happens if it should be amplified?

Marj: You'd have a truly unpredictable consciousness. Isn't that the Sharon we've been trying to create?

Raymond: You're insane. Did you think about what would happen if we lost control?!

-----------------------------

(emphasis mine)

So if the previous is in any way accurate to the original dialogue, the bio neural chip was based around the chip acting in its' own best interests, even at the expense of everything and everyone else. Because of that, it would take whatever action it deemed necessary to its' own survival and optimal condition, no matter who got hurt, killed or turned into red guacamole. In that vein, it would become increasingly reactionary to perceived threats, making choices and initiating actions based on said decisions.  Consequently, the longer the chip was active, the more it would perceive threats from those around it, as it would inherently opt for "survival" and thus become erratic.

Add that to Sharon Apple (who was already  based on Myung's fractured/damaged psyche),  and Sharon becomes the embodiment of all of Myung's inner conflicts, desires, anger, fear and pain, amongst other issues.

Just my two cents, for what its' worth. Not sure if I'm seeing this right, but I figured it was worth a shot.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Just my two cents, for what its' worth. Not sure if I'm seeing this right, but I figured it was worth a shot.

Macross Chronicle doesn't put quite as much emphasis on the self-preservation instinct aspect.  On the Glossary Sheet (17A) entry for it, it credits the New UN Government's ban on the technology more to the fact that the chips produce unpredictable behaviors that have a significant chance of the AI running on the chip going out of control.

Given that the Macross Concern was using data from the Sharon Apple project and bio-neural processors themselves in an attempt to make their next-generation unmanned fighter more effective by making it able to respond in less predictable ways, it seems like Myung's neuroses were the Grand Central Station for calamity.

[Bolt]

Indeed. I wonder how autonomous the Ghost drones , flying wing man for Brera , were. Considering Galaxies fetish for breaking the law , concerning AI (amongst other things).

[Seto Kaiba]

14 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Indeed. I wonder how autonomous the Ghost drones , flying wing man for Brera , were. Considering Galaxies fetish for breaking the law , concerning AI (amongst other things).

So... yeah, Macross Chronicle's Mechanic Sheet for the AIF-9V Ghost "V-9" does mention that it was outfitted with autonomous air combat functions that contravene the New UN Gov't restrictions on AI usage.  It's said that its AI is the same type used in the Ghost X-9.

Incidentally, Luca Angeloni's three modified AIF-7S Ghost wingmen (QF-4000) also use the same autonomous air combat AI software used in the Ghost X-9.

[Bolt]

4 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Incidentally, Luca Angeloni's three modified AIF-7S Ghost wingmen (QF-4000) also use the same autonomous air combat AI software used in the Ghost X-9.

So are we to assume there was no law breaking going there?

[TehPW]

2 minutes ago, Bolt said:

So are we to assume there was no law breaking going there?

I would imagine that permissions, when properly requested, can be allowed or authorized under very specific terminology (all happening off screen in the ether of speculation). Perhaps with back-ups and self-destruct means outside the control of the AI object in question?

[pengbuzz]

41 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross Chronicle doesn't put quite as much emphasis on the self-preservation instinct aspect.  On the Glossary Sheet (17A) entry for it, it credits the New UN Government's ban on the technology more to the fact that the chips produce unpredictable behaviors that have a significant chance of the AI running on the chip going out of control.

Given that the Macross Concern was using data from the Sharon Apple project and bio-neural processors themselves in an attempt to make their next-generation unmanned fighter more effective by making it able to respond in less predictable ways, it seems like Myung's neuroses were the Grand Central Station for calamity.

Understood; the lines from the anime seeme to give it more weight.

Edited August 13, 2021 by pengbuzz

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, TehPW said:

I would imagine that permissions, when properly requested, can be allowed or authorized under very specific terminology (all happening off screen in the ether of speculation). Perhaps with back-ups and self-destruct means outside the control of the AI object in question?

That does appear to be the case in the Macross Frontier audio drama Luca and the Three Ghosts.  In that, L.A.I. obtained special dispensation from the Frontier Government to work on developing a high-performance, fully-autonomous air combat AI for a next-generation Ghost.  

I don't recall where I read it, I think it was Great Mechanics.DX 14, but I remember it being said that fully autonomous unmanned fighters are restricted as heavily or nearly as heavily as the usage of (thermo)nuclear weapons and that their usage was strictly prohibited except in very specific circumstances.

[Sanity is Optional]

I do recall in the final battle Luca stated he was removing the limitations on his ghost drones, so presumably their AIs are locked away/restricted under normal conditions.

[pengbuzz]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:29 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

I don't recall where I read it, I think it was Great Mechanics.DX 14, but I remember it being said that fully autonomous unmanned fighters are restricted as heavily or nearly as heavily as the usage of (thermo)nuclear weapons and that their usage was strictly prohibited except in very specific circumstances.

I think that says a great deal about the potential damage and casualties fully autonomous fighters could cause in given circumstances. They don't have the same discernment a human being would, and I also imagine that it would be too easy for the fighter to get into a situation where command override by base may not be available/ be offline.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

I think that says a great deal about the potential damage and casualties fully autonomous fighters could cause in given circumstances. They don't have the same discernment a human being would, and I also imagine that it would be too easy for the fighter to get into a situation where command override by base may not be available/ be offline.

Macross does tend to mirror real world issues in its setting fairly often.  It's not surprising that modern anxieties about unmanned combat aircraft would find their way into the story in one form or another, not just in terms of general anxieties about arming robots but also in terms of the revelations from whistleblowers about the frequency with which drone strikes were killing people other than the intended target (a whopping 90% of the time).

Macross Dynamite 7 was perhaps Macross at its most blatant in that regard, being a spectacularly blunt Aesop about whaling.