The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[sketchley]

3 hours ago, Invid99 said:

Can somebody give me the official and right description of the Nousjadeul-ger tv version feet? Is it that large like this photo?

 

In this photo from episode 31 SDFM, it look smaller and more compact

Talk about Flashback 2012 2021!

Here's the MW writeup (with moar pictures) of my Christmasy version of the 1/144 Nujadera Ga:

 

[uzernaem]

1) Is it OK to not like Macross Plus? Many say that it's the best Macross ever, but extremely unlikeable characters ruined it for me. I appreciate the valkyries animation quality though.

2) Who was the designer of VF-1SOL from Scrambled Valkyrie? Afaik Kawamori was not involved with Macross at the time, but the design is sick.

Edit: aren't these from the Kawamori book though

Edited May 10, 2021 by uzernaem

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, uzernaem said:

Is it OK to not like Macross Plus?

That is a noob question. Lol

That gun pod looks like a vajra anal probe

[Master Dex]

3 hours ago, uzernaem said:

1) Is it OK to not like Macross Plus? Many say that it's the best Macross ever, but extremely unlikeable characters ruined it for me. I appreciate the valkyries animation quality though.

The helpful answer is, yes it's ok to not like something in the franchise even if a lot of others like it. In fact it's not considered that big a deal in Japan either. I don't understand your reason too even though I personally do like it. Though it isn't my favorite.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, uzernaem said:

1) Is it OK to not like Macross Plus? Many say that it's the best Macross ever, but extremely unlikeable characters ruined it for me. I appreciate the valkyries animation quality though.

Well, if you were expecting us to shout "Burn the Heretic!" you're probably going to be disappointed.  Wrong fandom for that, after all.

It's perfectly fine if some Macross titles aren't to your taste.  Everyone is different.

I would note that Macross Plus is more popular with western fans than Japanese ones.  It got kind of a lukewarm welcome when it came out in Japan, in no small part for the reasons you didn't much care for it.  

 

Quote

2) Who was the designer of VF-1SOL from Scrambled Valkyrie? Afaik Kawamori was not involved with Macross at the time, but the design is sick.

Shoji Kawamori is credited as its designer in the game.

Scramble Valkyrie is... well "non-canon" isn't quite the right word, but it's not part of the official Macross setting and chronology... a game that came out in late 1993, during the runup to both Macross Plus and Macross 7.  About a year after Macross II: Lovers Again was completed.

While Shoji Kawamori wasn't directly involved in a lot of Macross development for a few years there, Studio Nue worked on several Macross video games including FamilySoft's trilogy and Scramble Valkyrie and created several new/original designs like the VF-1SOL series from Scramble Valkyrie, the VF-X3 Medusa, LDR-04 Maverick, QF-9iE Ghost, and SDP-1 Stampede Valkyrie.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[TehPW]

On 5/10/2021 at 2:33 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, if you were expecting us to shout "Burn the Heretic!" you're probably going to be disappointed.  Wrong fandom for that, after all.

It's perfectly fine if some Macross titles aren't to your taste.  Everyone is different.

I would note that Macross Plus is more popular with western fans than Japanese ones.  It got kind of a lukewarm welcome when it came out in Japan, in no small part for the reasons you didn't much care for it.  

 

Shoji Kawamori is credited as its designer in the game.

Scramble Valkyrie is... well "non-canon" isn't quite the right word, but it's not part of the official Macross setting and chronology... a game that came out in late 1993, during the runup to both Macross Plus and Macross 7.  About a year after Macross II: Lovers Again was completed.

While Shoji Kawamori wasn't directly involved in a lot of Macross development for a few years there, Studio Nue worked on several Macross video games including FamilySoft's trilogy and Scramble Valkyrie and created several new/original designs like the VF-1SOL series from Scramble Valkyrie, the VF-X3 Medusa, LDR-04 Maverick, QF-9iE Ghost, and SDP-1 Stampede Valkyrie.

When did they start working on Macross Zero and did they (almost intentionally) use the SOL as the template for the Zero? I literally see the Zero in that image (although i guess the height of the Zero was not just a IG reason but something required by the manufacturer of any toys)...

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, TehPW said:

When did they start working on Macross Zero and did they (almost intentionally) use the SOL as the template for the Zero?

~2000.  I don't recall if a specific date was given.

As far as I am aware, the VF-1SOL has not been acknowledged as an inspiration for the VF-0.  There are some vague stylistic similarities, but those are present in most of Kawamori's designs from the 90's and early 00's.  Kawamori's acknowledged starting point for designing the VF-0 was the F-14, though the VF-0 was only one of several modern takes on the VF-1 design he did in that period. The others were for a piece in Character Model magazine: the SW-XAI Schneeblume and SW-XAII Schneegans, both of which were in response to a prompt to the effect of "what if you designed the VF-1 today".

[uzernaem]

What about SV-51 and VF-27 connection? There just way too many similarities right to the every mode appearance, Nora's color scheme and Gamma designation. Is there any explanation lore-wise?

[Seto Kaiba]

58 minutes ago, uzernaem said:

What about SV-51 and VF-27 connection? There just way too many similarities right to the every mode appearance, Nora's color scheme and Gamma designation. Is there any explanation lore-wise?

It's coincidence.

The only - and incredibly tenuous - connection between the SV-51 and VF-27 is that one of the lead developers of the SV-51 who defected to the UN Government as the Alliance was collapsing later became a co-founder of General Galaxy, a subsidiary of which developed the VF-27 decades after his death.

Note that both Nora's SV-51 and Brera's VF-27 are "ace custom" units and not representative of typical fighters of their types.

[uzernaem]

Am I understand correctly that according to main canon timeline (and disregarding Kawamori's "lol what canon"), Prometheus and Daedalus were used during Zentraedi war and replaced by ARMDs sometime after the war, thus explaining ARMDs in DYRL with the fact that the film was shot in 2030s in-universe?

[Seto Kaiba]

54 minutes ago, uzernaem said:

Am I understand correctly that according to main canon timeline (and disregarding Kawamori's "lol what canon"), Prometheus and Daedalus were used during Zentraedi war and replaced by ARMDs sometime after the war, thus explaining ARMDs in DYRL with the fact that the film was shot in 2030s in-universe?

In most versions of the First Space War narrative, yes... the Macross had the Daedalus and the Prometheus as its arms and acquired the paired ARMD-class carriers when she was repaired and retrofitted between the events of the TV series and FB2012.

[uzernaem]

8 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

In most versions of the First Space War narrative, yes... the Macross had the Daedalus and the Prometheus as its arms and acquired the paired ARMD-class carriers when she was repaired and retrofitted between the events of the TV series and FB2012.

Thanks! Does usage of the strike parts fit in the same canon though, or it's strictly DYRL thing?

Edited May 15, 2021 by uzernaem

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, uzernaem said:

Thanks! Does usage of the strike parts fit in the same canon though, or it's strictly DYRL thing?

So, when it comes to "movie" designs in Macross, the creators tend to include those designs in the continuity regardless.  Sometimes they come up with explanations to justify that decision and sometimes it's simply done without any kind of comment.

When it comes to the UN Forces mechanical designs, they were pretty uniformly brought in as post-war improvements and modernizations.  Like the Macross's movie appearance being its post-war repaired form and the design for the mass-production Macross-class ships used in some emigrant fleets.  The VF-1's movie appearance was rationalized as the Block 6 production standard that was already being rolled out when the war started but did not achieve full adoption until after the war.  The Strike Pack has a similar explanation, being treated as a post-war improvement in some sources.  Zentradi mecha designs from the movie largely just displaced their TV series counterparts.

The YF-29 from the Macross Frontier second movie also found its way into the continuity of the TV series, with the prequel Macross the Ride asseting the VF-27 was completed by using leaked development data from the YF-29 program, and asserting that the YF-29 was also used by the New UN Spacy Special Forces after the Vajra conflict ended (in Macross 30) and became the developmental starting point for the YF-30 that the VF-31 was developed from, etc. etc.

[JB0]

And as near I can tell, tv-style or movie-style zentradi is up to the whims of a given production team. If there's a more consistent logic(outside of Exsedol's specific case), I'd love to hear it.

[Seto Kaiba]

14 minutes ago, JB0 said:

And as near I can tell, tv-style or movie-style zentradi is up to the whims of a given production team. If there's a more consistent logic(outside of Exsedol's specific case), I'd love to hear it.

By in large, the movie Zentradi designs seem to have almost totally supplanted the TV series ones in subsequent works.

The only times we've seen the TV versions of any of their designs or gear have been in human-produced docu-dramas like The Lynn Minmay Story produced during the events of the Macross 7 TV series (which had a DYRL Vrlitwhai and TV Quamzin) and the New UN Spacy Marines in Macross Frontier and Macross Delta having a mixture of the TV version armor and Movie version armor.  In Frontier, it seemed to be that the Movie version was a pilot suit and the TV version was infantry body armor.

[Zinjo]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:07 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's coincidence.

The only - and incredibly tenuous - connection between the SV-51 and VF-27 is that one of the lead developers of the SV-51 who defected to the UN Government as the Alliance was collapsing later became a co-founder of General Galaxy, a subsidiary of which developed the VF-27 decades after his death.

Note that both Nora's SV-51 and Brera's VF-27 are "ace custom" units and not representative of typical fighters of their types.

True.

The production model of of the SV-51 is a sandy brown and the production model of the VF-27 is green. Both can be seen in "blink and miss it" moments of each series.

[uzernaem]

What was the original ending to DYRL? I've seen only Angel's Paints concert ending.

[Beltane70]

20 hours ago, uzernaem said:

What was the original ending to DYRL? I've seen only Angel's Paints concert ending.

The new footage that appears in Flashback 2012 was originally supposed to appear at the end of DYRL if I remember correctly. 

[uzernaem]

4 hours ago, Beltane70 said:

The new footage that appears in Flashback 2012 was originally supposed to appear at the end of DYRL if I remember correctly. 

That's why I am asking - I've only seen DYRL with that footage appearing at the end.

[Reni]

The original DYRL ends with this shot of Minmei on stage, fading to black.

Angel's Paints (just the audio) then starts and the credits roll.

[uzernaem]

29 minutes ago, Reni said:

The original DYRL ends with this shot of Minmei on stage, fading to black.

Angel's Paints (just the audio) then starts and the credits roll.

Thanks!

So the song still appears in original DYRL, only without video. I see.

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, Beltane70 said:

The new footage that appears in Flashback 2012 was originally supposed to appear at the end of DYRL if I remember correctly. 

Not quite... the new material in Flash Back 2012 was originally developed as an epilogue for the TV series that was cut due to runtime constraints.  That is where the design for the SDF-2 as a second Macross-class ship came from.

[Reni]

On 5/22/2021 at 11:18 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Not quite... the new material in Flash Back 2012 was originally developed as an epilogue for the TV series that was cut due to runtime constraints.  That is where the design for the SDF-2 as a second Macross-class ship came from.

Was the concert footage originally planned for the end of DYRL though?  The story I thought I remembered was DYRL was supposed to end with a Minmei performance but they ran out of production time. 

The SDF-2 taking off and heading into space I do recall being planned as an epilogue for the TV series, like you say.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Reni

[Seto Kaiba]

32 minutes ago, Reni said:

Was the concert footage originally planned for the end of DYRL though?  The story I thought I remembered was DYRL was supposed to end with a Minmei performance but they ran out of production time. 

There were a number of "phantom scenes" that've been mentioned by one staffer or another over the years that were cut during the storyboard phase of the movie.

One was Max and Milia's wedding scene that got animated (in part) in Macross 7 ten years later.  Another was that the credits were supposed to have animation showing Minmay performing Angel's Paints that was omitted due to production timing changes.  I don't recall if they ever explicitly connected the two while also discussing the omitted epilogue to the TV series that became the bulk of Flash Back 2012's setting.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[Biomaster]

Well, time for me to ask another noob question. I am coming up to Macross Frontier (AKA the series a lot of anime fans hype up as the best Macross show, though I honestly doubt that) and it seems that episode 1 has three different versions: the 24 minute broadcast version and the 30-something minute Deculture and Yakh Deculture versions. Which do I watch? Do these extended versions cut anything that was present in the broadcast version? Is it true that the Yakh Deculture version is the Deculture version but with fixed animation? Thanks in advance! 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Biomaster

[sketchley]

If memory serves, the release order was:

"Deculture Ver." in the 25th anniversary special 3 months before the series started.  In short, it's a teaser, and the plot ends earlier than in the other versions.

"Broadcast Ver." essentially the "Deculture Ver." with the proper episode ending (where it smoothly connects with Eps. 2).  It has everything you need to follow the story in the subsequent episodes.

"Yakh Deculture Ver." a re-edit of the "Broadcast Ver." with some additional footage that was cut from the "Deculture Ver." to make the "Broadcast Ver."

 

Personally, I prefer the "Broadcast Ver." edit and musical choices.  But either that or the "Yakh Deculture Ver." is fit for purpose.  In fact, I humbly suggest watching all 3 versions at one point or another!

[no3Ljm]

Or just watch it back-to-back to see the differences.  

 

[Biomaster]

25 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

Or just watch it back-to-back to see the differences.  

 

Would with pleasure, but I'm kinda tight with time so I need one version to start with. From what it seems I'll probably be going with Yakh Deculture because extra scenes... and the musical differences Sketchley mentioned seem to be mostly confined to the ED? I kinda hate when this occurs... 

[uzernaem]

Are there any artbooks with Yoshiyuki Takani (and other vintage boxart artists) Macross stuff?

[no3Ljm]

12 minutes ago, uzernaem said:

Are there any artbooks with Yoshiyuki Takani (and other vintage boxart artists) Macross stuff?

I'm not 100% sure if there's a mook from Takani dedicated for Macross stuff. However, I saw this on YJA and Mandarake in case you're insterested.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p846716772

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/l684373605

https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/detailPage/item?itemCode=1164502442

https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/detailPage/item?itemCode=1064809121

 

I think this one has more Macross but it's already sold out.

https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/detailPage/item?itemCode=1152340084

Edited May 26, 2021 by no3Ljm

[uzernaem]

2 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

I'm not 100% sure if there's a mook from Takani dedicated for Macross stuff. However, I saw this on YJA and Mandarake in case you're insterested.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p846716772

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/l684373605

https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/detailPage/item?itemCode=1164502442

https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/detailPage/item?itemCode=1064809121

 

Thanks a lot! I find this kind of retro artwork fascinating.

[no3Ljm]

21 hours ago, uzernaem said:

Thanks a lot! I find this kind of retro artwork fascinating.

You're welcome.

Also, @Shawn posted this link in the MW Site News & Member Feedback's Open! Post Bugs Here thread. It's from 2012.  

https://www.macrossworld.com/the-ultimate-yoshiyuki-takani-macross-collection/

Enjoy!

 

[RedWolf]

Do we have an exact timeline for the distribution for the YF-24 Plan? From what we know in late 2057 the YF-24 had a demonstration battle and was approved for deployment after that. But the question is when did Shinsei Industry distribute the YF-24 plans? 

 

June of 2057 was the first flight of the YF-25. December of 2057 was the first flight of the YF-27 which was closer to the YF-24 airframe as the VF-27 took the four engine idea from leaks about the YF-29 which was unfinished.

The YF-24 was initially worked on by Shinsei Industry and General Galaxy but was put on a hiatus for who knows how many years till the ISC was miniturized. 

As it sounds like Frontier and Galaxy were developing prototypes just as the YF-24 Evolution was undergoing testing.

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, RedWolf said:

Do we have an exact timeline for the distribution for the YF-24 Plan?

Nope.

 

4 hours ago, RedWolf said:

From what we know in late 2057 the YF-24 had a demonstration battle and was approved for deployment after that. But the question is when did Shinsei Industry distribute the YF-24 plans? 

At some point after Major Dyson's demonstration of the YF-24 Evolution to the Earth New UN Forces brass and their subsequent decision to adopt the YF-24 Evolution as next main fighter.  The New UN Government circulated the YF-24 Evolution spec in redacted form to the individual member governments after the New UN Forces decision.  

 

4 hours ago, RedWolf said:

As it sounds like Frontier and Galaxy were developing prototypes just as the YF-24 Evolution was undergoing testing.

No, they definitely used the YF-24 Evolution as their starting point.  The fast turnaround is more to do with the YF-25 and initial-type YF-27 being little different from the YF-24's basic design.  There was some tweaking of airframe shape and engine design based on local production capabilities and individual needs/wants, but the basic design itself didn't change all that much.  

[valk1j]

Did the VF-22 Masterfile state a missile payload for it? Or do we still have no idea on what all the pallets on it can hold?