The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[pengbuzz]

7 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Heads to the toilet shouting "LISTEN TO MY BOWELS!!! No, seriously. I had all-you-can-eat ghost pepper enchiladas last night, and it was a mistake."

That made my night!

[blackconvoy_D01]

Is there a VF-17/ 171 Masterfile?

[Seto Kaiba]

7 minutes ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

Is there a VF-17/ 171 Masterfile?

Not at this time.

[blackconvoy_D01]

Just now, Seto Kaiba said:

Not at this time.

cool, thanks.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, blackconvoy_D01 said:

cool, thanks.

Right now, there are eleven volumes of Variable Fighter Master File.  In order, they are:

• Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie (Vol.1)
• Variable Fighter Master File: VF-19 Excalibur
• Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie (Vol.2)
• Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah
• Variable Fighter Master File: VF-0 Phoenix
• Variable Fighter Master File: SDF-1 Macross VF-1 Squadrons
• Variable Fighter Master File: VF-22 Sturmvogel II
• Variable Fighter Master File: VF-4 Lightning III
• Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried
• Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Battroid Valkyrie
• Variable Fighter Master File: VF-11 Thunderbolt

There is also a Red Herring of sorts... an in-universe volume that is mentioned (with an image of its cover) in VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2 that doesn't exist in reality, which focuses on the VF-4, VF-3000, and VF-5000.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Seto Kaiba

[no3Ljm]

I know this might have been asked before or asked a lot. But it just brought back to my attention again thru the DX thread and Shawn's photo request of DX Hikaru sporting black heatshield.

 

It's probably anime production error during the movie but was there any specific reason as to why Hiaru's the only one have a painted personal color heatshield whereas Roy's and Max's have black? Even though Max's VF-1A have blue skull heatshield. Thought it should be consistent like black when you get promoted to leader rank.

Again, apologies if this has been asked before.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

I know this might have been asked before or asked a lot. But it just brought back to my attention again thru the DX thread and Shawn's photo request of DX Hikaru sporting black heatshield.

 

It's probably anime production error during the movie but was there any specific reason as to why Hiaru's the only one have a painted personal color heatshield whereas Roy's and Max's have black? Even though Max's VF-1A have blue skull heatshield. Thought it should be consistent like black when you get promoted to leader rank.

Again, apologies if this has been asked before.

 

Huh... so, it took me a hot minute there to figure out what exactly you were asking since I'm not a toy collector and don't follow the toy threads.  I usually only post there when specifically summoned to answer a question.

In DYRL?, Hikaru's (011), Kakizaki's (012), and Max's (013) VF-1A Valkyries all have their armored canopy covers painted in the pilot's color... red, green, and blue respectively.  Roy's VF-1S has always had a black canopy cover.  The bone of contention here why the VF-1S that Max was flying during the dogfight with Milia after becoming Skull Leader had a black canopy cover while the one Hikaru gets at the start of the final battle scene when he is acting as Skull Leader is painted red?

 

In Macross, as in most mecha anime, there is almost never any evident rhyme or reason behind the specific character color schemes.

It seems to be down to the pilot's personal preference most, if not all, of the time.

The only instance I can recall where that was specifically not the case was in Macross II: Lovers Again.  It's never referenced in the anime, but in the OVA's artbooks the VF-2SS Valkyrie IIs flown by pilots other than Sylvie and Nex are supposedly color-coded by the pilot's gender.  The VF-2SS with green trim is captioned "For male pilots", and the VF-2SS with yellow trim as "For female pilots".  Of course, since Sylvie and Fairy Platoon are the only female pilots ever shown on screen this may be more a case of an elite unit and the Spacy's two most elite pilots having special color schemes to mark them out as the elite.  (Fairy Platoon's colors are reversed for the Moon Festival, all red or all yellow with white trim, though the holographic? light trails they're trailing during the airshow are the original Skull platoon's colors: red, green, blue, and yellow.)

In Macross 7, there is an isolated case where accent color seems to reflect organizational intent... though it's hard to say if this is an actual organizational requirement or a choice intended to honor the memory of a deceased mentor.  Diamond Force's VF-17s were matte black with a colored trim stripe.  Their default accent color was white, though Captain Kinryu had gold/yellow trim on his VF-17S.  It's possible this was his personal preference and a play on words, since he has the kanji for "Gold" in his name.  As the series progressed, Kinryu was replaced by Milia (who repainted Kinryu's VF-17S red but retained the yellow trim) and then Gamlin (who repainted it black but also kept the yellow trim).  When Docker, one of Gamlin's wingmen who was incapacitated way back in the first episode, returned to duty and was given command of Emerald Force he also went with white trim for his wingmen's machines and gold trim for his VF-19S.  It's not made clear if this use of yellow trim is something actually mandated for the command units or simply a personal touch by their leaders (who both served under Kinryu).

[no3Ljm]

^ Thank you so much, @Seto Kaiba. I really appreciate this.

I was just wondering if there's like an 'official' reason mentioned in some books or something. I do have some of the VF-1's master file book that was released a few years ago but since most of it in nihonggo and my knowledge of it are limited, I really couldn't pinpoint if there's a specific reasoning for it. I was just assuming that maybe when you get promoted to a leader or commander it becomes black like a mandatory thing in military. Hence why Roy and Max VF-1S sports a black canopy. That's why I was just curious as to why Hikaru still has the red canopy. Even though there were some areas (or as we call it 'probably it's an animation error') in the movie where it was shown with black canopy. Though the box image on the original Hi-Metal figure featured a black canopy.

These images were posted by @Shawn in the DX thread.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by no3Ljm

[Seto Kaiba]

34 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

That's why I was just curious as to why Hikaru still has the red canopy. Even though there were some areas (or as we call it 'probably it's an animation error') in the movie where it was shown with black canopy. Though the box image on the original Hi-Metal figure featured a black canopy.

If I had to guess, my guess would be that Hikaru's VF-1S was given a red canopy cover to make it more visually distinct from the other two VF-1S units that appeared earlier in the movie.

Y'know, to make it more obvious that this was The Hero's mecha since it otherwise shares a design with the VFs flown by supporting characters.

(It's also possible that the final color scheme wasn't set or was changed late, after the point that the artist had drawn that box art and the toy's color scheme had been set.)

[pengbuzz]

*Imagines Hikaru is at his closet, with several canopy covers hanging on hangers*

Hikaru: "Hmmm...which one should I wear today? The red one looks kinda festive..."

[slide]

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... since I'm not a toy collector and don't follow the toy threads.  I usually only post there when specifically summoned to answer a question.

And we thank you for that!

[no3Ljm]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If I had to guess, my guess would be that Hikaru's VF-1S was given a red canopy cover to make it more visually distinct from the other two VF-1S units that appeared earlier in the movie.

Y'know, to make it more obvious that this was The Hero's mecha since it otherwise shares a design with the VFs flown by supporting characters.

(It's also possible that the final color scheme wasn't set or was changed late, after the point that the artist had drawn that box art and the toy's color scheme had been set.)

Again, thank you so much @Seto Kaiba ! Really appreciate it. 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

*Imagines Hikaru is at his closet, with several canopy covers hanging on hangers*

Hikaru: "Hmmm...which one should I wear today? The red one looks kinda festive..."

Given Hikaru's questionable taste, that could end poorly...

Misa: *sees a canopy cover marked H.I.❤L.M.*
Hikaru: Um... oh... er... that stands for Love... Misa.  Yeah, Love Misa!

Followed immediately by the sound of a man being pounded into the deckplates like a tent peg with his own photo album by an irate flight controller.

[pengbuzz]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Given Hikaru's questionable taste, that could end poorly...

Misa: *sees a canopy cover marked H.I.❤L.M.*
Hikaru: Um... oh... er... that stands for Love... Misa.  Yeah, Love Misa!

Followed immediately by the sound of a man being pounded into the deckplates like a tent peg with his own photo album by an irate flight controller.

Sounds like Hikaru now knows what the Daedalus felt like after getting smashed into an enemy vessel by the SDF-1 (Also Misa's handiwork)

[slide]

5 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Sounds like Hikaru now knows what the Daedalus felt like after getting smashed into an enemy vessel by the SDF-1 (Also Misa's handiwork)

She also hit Hikaru with one of said attacks...

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Sounds like Hikaru now knows what the Daedalus felt like after getting smashed into an enemy vessel by the SDF-1 (Also Misa's handiwork)

TV Hikaru knew exactly what that felt like... in "Kung Fu Dandy", Misa botches a Daedalus Attack because she's distracted and the missile salvo meant to sink the attacking Zentradi ship downs him instead.

That was what cost him his second (and final) VF-1J and left him confined to a hospital bed for the next two episodes to have the trippy clipshow dream we see in "Phantasm" and miss the defensive battle where someone in Milia's unit lethally wounds Roy in "Pineapple Salad", only to finally get back on his feet in the next episode ("Burst Point") and promptly lose Kakizaki too.  

That boy had it ROUGH right around the halfway point of the TV series.

[pengbuzz]

26 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

TV Hikaru knew exactly what that felt like... in "Kung Fu Dandy", Misa botches a Daedalus Attack because she's distracted and the missile salvo meant to sink the attacking Zentradi ship downs him instead.

That was what cost him his second (and final) VF-1J and left him confined to a hospital bed for the next two episodes to have the trippy clipshow dream we see in "Phantasm" and miss the defensive battle where someone in Milia's unit lethally wounds Roy in "Pineapple Salad", only to finally get back on his feet in the next episode ("Burst Point") and promptly lose Kakizaki too.  

That boy had it ROUGH right around the halfway point of the TV series.

Guess Misa had some explaining to do to Hikaru after that one. Poor guy wakes up, and his fighter is toast, his sempai is dead and he gets back into action only to lose one of his team.

I also noticed they never did the Daedalus Attack after that IIRC; although an interesting video would be "Misa Said Knock You Out!" with a dancing SDF-1 in boxing trunks, set to LL Cool J's "Mamma Said Knock You out".

[slide]

11 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

although an interesting video would be "Misa Said Knock You Out!" with a dancing SDF-1 in boxing trunks, set to LL Cool J's "Mamma Said Knock You out".

THAT is the funniest thing I've heard in a while, thank you for that glorious mental image!

[Bolt]

Second thatThanks Pengbuzz

[pengbuzz]

8 hours ago, slide said:

THAT is the funniest thing I've heard in a while, thank you for that glorious mental image!

 

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Second thatThanks Pengbuzz

I'll see if I can get a cartoon of that together later today.

[pengbuzz]

Okay...don't say I didn't warn y'all:

 

Original vid:

 

[pengbuzz]

31 minutes ago, CaptPower said:

Lol, reminds me of a MEME I saw (& saved a copy of) a while back.

That was part of the inspiration for my joke!

[slide]

22 hours ago, CaptPower said:

WHAT the H***??????????????????

Looks like I'm in the right place - you guys are as twisted as I am.

Welcome!

[darkranger12]

How fast and agile would a VF-1 be fully loaded and with the Fast pack boosters?

 

[Bolt]

Atmosphere or vacuum?

[darkranger12]

21 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Atmosphere or vacuum?

Vacuum.

[JB0]

10 hours ago, darkranger12 said:

How fast and agile would a VF-1 be fully loaded and with the Fast pack boosters?

 

That's... complicated. In space, every change in speed and direction comes from throwing mass out the back(usually in the form of combusted rocket fuel, though variable fighters use the contents of the fusion reactor as well). If you put all your reaction mass into achieving maximum speed, you can't turn anymore. Or slow down. You're going in a straight line in whatever direction and at whatever speed you were going when you ran out of fuel. I hope you arranged a ride home.

So the short-but-accurate answer is It is as fast as it isn't agile, and as agile as it isn't fast.

 

The simplistic answer, which is probably closest to what you want, is that the rocket engines in the FAST packs are roughly five times as powerful as the VF-1's built-in engines, so a VF-1 with FAST packs is six times faster than a normal Valkyrie. More accurately, it accelerates six times faster. 

The FAST packs are also studded with attitude control thrusters to get the VF-1 pointed the right direction for the next thrust faster, so it can change direction... at some higher-but-unspecified rotational velocity? Those attitude control thrusters will have a huge impact on agility, since most of the thrust on a VF-1 goes out the back end.

...

But remember: the simplistic answer is terrible. FAST packs only carry enough fuel for two and a half minutes at maximum thrust, after which you ain't goin' home. In fact, if you've spent half your fuel speeding up away from the ship, you are already incapable of making a return trip because the other half of the fuel in the opposite direction will only bring you to a stop. (I'm not actually sure how much reaction mass the base Valkyrie carries, but I know it is significantly limited, hence why there's FAST packs.)

It is probably wise NOT to open 'em up to full throttle and take off like a bat outta hell unless there is a very good reason(as with the first deployment of the Super Valkyrie, when Misa's shuttle was ambushed by zentradi forces en route to Earth and needed immediate reinforcements).

 

The long answer is MATH, LOTS OF MATH!

And I'm opting out of that one. I ain't no rocket scientist.

Edited January 6, 2021 by JB0

[Seto Kaiba]

10 hours ago, darkranger12 said:

How fast and agile would a VF-1 be fully loaded and with the Fast pack boosters?

So... to be frank, this is a question with no easy answer.

Because the VF-1 Valkyrie's design was constrained to approximately the expected size of the crew of Alien StarShip One, its onboard fuel supplies are very limited.  It's not really an obstacle in atmosphere since the thermonuclear reaction turbine engines used are extremely fuel efficient due to the use of OTM gravity and inertia control tech to control the reactors and contain the plasma stream, but because the engines use plasma from their reactors as propellant for space flight the fuel consumption increases by an enormous amount (4,200x) in space operations.  The Super Pack compensates for this somewhat by adding external tanks with more fuel for the main engines and a pair of high-powered rocket boosters, but even then the actual window in which those rockets and the reaction engines can exert their maximum thrust is also very limited.  Once the rocket boosters are depleted, the Super Valkyrie's maneuverability and speed decrease sharply.

Consequently, a VF's top speed in space is more a question of "how much of your fuel are you willing to burn?".  

The Super Pack's hybrid rocket engines can only sustain their maximum thrust for 2 1/2 minutes (150 seconds) before their fuel is spent, and the main engines can only run for about 45 minutes at maximum power until they drain both their main tanks and the conformal fuel tanks.

If all you cared about was red, raw speed from a standing start then the VF-1 Super Valkyrie's maximum achievable acceleration in a vacuum is going to be 6.35555 g (62.32761m/s^2) for the first 150 seconds until the boosters quit then acceleration will fall off towards 1.02 g due to the excessive weight of the Super Pack and much more limited maximum output of the thermonuclear reaction turbine engines.  Burning out the rockets on that two and a half minutes of sustained acceleration would get you up to about 9.349 kilometers per second.  At that point, the Super Pack is deadweight and it's going to take a fair amount of time and fuel to slow down.  If you burned every drop of fuel aboard the fighter you'd theoretically get to a maximum of 35.274km/s but then you'd be a missile sailing into the abyss with no power, no ability to steer or decelerate, etc.  (Bear in mind it's unlikely you could actually DO this, since the fuel is also used as a coolant for the engine in space and running at overboost for 45 minutes straight would probably overheat the engines.)

Understandably, burning up the rockets like that is a Bad Idea and they're mostly used well below their maximum output in order to extend their operating time as much as possible.

Agility invokes a similar concern, since the verniers are thermal rockets that are also drawing from onboard fuel tanks and the electrical supply from the compact thermonuclear reactor.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[darkranger12]

I guess its all a matter of weight too....like would a fully loaded fighter with fast packs be less agile then a non fast pack armed fighter in vacuum?

Edited January 6, 2021 by darkranger12

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, darkranger12 said:

I guess its all a matter of weight too....like would a fully loaded fighter be less agile then a non fast pack armed fighter?

Same deal as the above, really... it's a function of how much mass you're trying to move and how much fuel you have and are willing to use doing it.

On its own, a VF-1 with the standard combat load tips the scales at 18,500kg and with the Super Pack added it's up to 45,000kg.  The Super Pack's verniers are intended to offset that difference in mass to preserve maneuverability in space, but moving the far greater mass also entails greater fuel consumption doing it... but a part of that weight is also the greater amount of fuel necessary to get away with doing it.

Whether the Super Pack-equipped Valkyrie is more or less agile than the unaugmented Valkyrie is mostly down to how conservative the pilot is being with his fuel supply.

 

[darkranger12]

I see. Thanks.

[Invid99]

Does Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross exist in the same universe as Macross(Not Robotech)?And Generation Climber Mospeada has nothing to do with Macross? 

[Seto Kaiba]

Wow, as Newbie questions go, this is definitely one...

2 hours ago, Invid99 said:

Does Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross exist in the same universe as Macross(Not Robotech)?And Generation Climber Mospeada has nothing to do with Macross? 

No, all of the shows marketed under the original "Super Dimension" brand - Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Super Dimension Century Orguss, and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross - are entirely separate stories set in different universes.  MOSPEADA is completely unrelated to them as well, except in that its creators were trying to cash in on the success of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series.

 

Macross, as you know, is set in a universe where an alien warship crashed in the south pacific ocean in 1999 and humanity recovered and reverse-engineered it, leading to a First Space War with the enemies of the ship's original owners in 2009, the destruction of Earth's surface in 2010, and eventually mass emigration into space beginning in 2012... leading to stories set in various emigrant fleets and planets across the galaxy over the next half century or so.

Orguss is set in a universe where a world war over possession of a space elevator is underway in 2062, in which one side's attempt to destroy the space elevator with a dimensional bomb results in a fighter pilot being sent into a bizarre mélange of overlapping alternate reality Earths and plunged into the middle of a conflict between a humanoid race called the Emaan, a militaristic human faction called the Chiram, and a race of sentient robots called the Mu.  

Southern Cross is set in a universe where a nuclear war broke out near the end of the 21st century that left Earth incapable of supporting life, forcing the surviving human population to emigrate to space colonies in the outer solar system and then to a pair of newly-discovered Earthlike planets named Liberte and Glorie.  In 2120, the recently-established settlement on Glorie comes under attack by a mysterious force called the Zor, who claim the planet is their homeworld and who are desperate to recover a native plant which they need to maintain their harmonious society.

MOSPEADA is set in a universe where humanity had only just started to colonize the rest of the solar system when Earth was abruptly invaded and conquered in 2050 by an alien race known as the Inbit, forcing the survivors to flee to the colonies.  33 years later, after one failed attempt to retake the planet in 2080, the colonies send a second military force to retake Earth from the Inbit armed with a newly-developed transforming fighter and the latest transforming motorbike/powered armor called the MOSPEADA.  The survivors of that doomed second recapture force are stuck operating behind enemy lines as they try to link up with the colonial forces and retake the planet.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[Invid99]

40 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Wow, as Newbie questions go, this is definitely one...

No, all of the shows marketed under the original "Super Dimension" brand - Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Super Dimension Century Orguss, and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross - are entirely separate stories set in different universes.  MOSPEADA is completely unrelated to them as well, except in that its creators were trying to cash in on the success of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series.

 

Macross, as you know, is set in a universe where an alien warship crashed in the south pacific ocean in 1999 and humanity recovered and reverse-engineered it, leading to a First Space War with the enemies of the ship's original owners in 2009, the destruction of Earth's surface in 2010, and eventually mass emigration into space beginning in 2012... leading to stories set in various emigrant fleets and planets across the galaxy over the next half century or so.

Orguss is set in a universe where a world war over possession of a space elevator is underway in 2062, in which one side's attempt to destroy the space elevator with a dimensional bomb results in a fighter pilot being sent into a bizarre mélange of overlapping alternate reality Earths and plunged into the middle of a conflict between a humanoid race called the Emaan, a militaristic human faction called the Chiram, and a race of sentient robots called the Mu.  

Southern Cross is set in a universe where a nuclear war broke out near the end of the 21st century that left Earth incapable of supporting life, forcing the surviving human population to emigrate to space colonies in the outer solar system and then to a pair of newly-discovered Earthlike planets named Liberte and Glorie.  In 2120, the recently-established settlement on Glorie comes under attack by a mysterious force called the Zor, who claim the planet is their homeworld and who are desperate to recover a native planet which they need to maintain their harmonious society.

MOSPEADA is set in a universe where humanity had only just started to colonize the rest of the solar system when Earth was abruptly invaded and conquered in 2050 by an alien race known as the Inbit, forcing the survivors to flee to the colonies.  33 years later, after one failed attempt to retake the planet in 2080, the colonies send a second military force to retake Earth from the Inbit armed with a newly-developed transforming fighter and the latest transforming motorbike/powered armor called the MOSPEADA.  The survivors of that doomed second recapture force are stuck operating behind enemy lines as they try to link up with the colonial forces and retake the planet.

Ok thanks for the explanation! 

[Invid99]

Was that supposed to be the movie version Quamzin? Was he also the one who were inside the SDF-1 ship and about to capture Minmay?