The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[peroliza]

Hello. I have been a member of the site for a while but this it my first question in this thread. Hope you are doing well.

So, my question is about the origin of the song “Do You Remember Love?” in the Macross universe.
 
This song is never played or mentioned in the SDFM TV series. It’s introduced in the DYRL film, which is a fictional film within the Macross universe, and it’s also played in the 2012 Flashback OVA which is, as far as I know, Minmay last concert. Since then, all the Macross sequels, Macross 7, Frontier and Delta, give it a lot of importance to the song. So, it didn’t exist during the SDFM  timeframe as, due the song preeminence, it couldn’t be ignored by the series. It’s debut was not in 2031, when the film was premiered, as Minmay disappeared onboard the Megaroad on 2016. So, I think it was recorded by Minmay between the end of SDFM and Flashback 2012, right? Is there any hint elsewhere on how the song was discovered or developed besides the story told in Macross: DYRL?

Sorry if my question is too confusing

Edited February 26, 2020 by peroliza

[jeniusornome]

Heh, I’ve wondered about that a lot. 
 

I actually assumed it was written for the DYRL movie “in universe” and thought it was hilarious that Minmay’s most popular song wasn’t even written by her, but you’re right, with it being in flashback 2012 I guess that puts it in the TV show timeframe (or shortly after).

 

in the series the big “crash through the fortress and blow up bodolza” scene was done to “love slips away” (“ai wa nagareru”).

with no official info to back this up I would guess “do you remember love” (“ai oboete imasu ka”) was the smash hit thematic follow up from her second album, written in Macross City while she pined over Hikaru, until she realized she couldn’t get back the simple life she had at the start of the series.

an alternate explanation is that the people who did the DYRL movie in universe couldn’t get the rights to “ai wa nagareru” because it was so popular, so they wrote a knockoff song, and all the times we see someone singing “do you remember” they’re actually singing “slips away”.

 

or maybe it really was an old protoculture song they dug out of some archives for her to sing...

(honestly the only Macross canon that makes sense is the Macross Cannon that blows things up).

Edited February 25, 2020 by jeniusornome

[Bolt]

Another interesting point about that is the song is a Protoculture relic. Which puts a lot more weight and connection to the Protoculture  within the story of Macross. And makes it all the more appropriate in the later series'. I think your guesstimation on when it falls into the timeline is pretty good..

[Tochiro]

Keep in mind that the original tv series is also a tv series within the Macross universe too, so it could always be that the director just wanted to use different songs :-D

[Bolt]

Doh 

[peroliza]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Would you like to read my crazy hypothesis about the song?

Misa, just after the end of chapter 30 of SDFM "Viva Maria", told Global about the Supervision Army's derelict ship. In my opinion, it was Misa as Exedol seemed not too interested about the ship. It was decided to investigate further the derelict ship so a better prepared expedition for that purpose was assembled and sent.  Fortunately, the ship was not a booby trap as originally thought. It contained a lot of useful devices and records; the Protoculture version of the DYRL song among them. Exedol's research report on the Zentradi and Protoculture story on chapter 31 of SDFM "Satan's Dolls "was a result of studying these records. Finally, on chapter 36 Global shared with Misa more results that were obtained from the research; the scientists assigned to the task were confident that the Protoculture home planet lied "somewhere" near the center of the Milky Way. So, Megaroad 01 route was planned well in advance before its launch. Regarding the song, there was no better singer as Minmay to sing it so, she was called after chapter 36 to record it and the rest is history.

Regards

 

 

 

 

[jeniusornome]

I like it!

[peroliza]

1 hour ago, jeniusornome said:

I like it!

Many thanks.

Regards

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, peroliza said:

This song is never played or mentioned in the SDFM TV series. It’s introduced in the DYRL film, which is a fictional film within the Macross universe, and it’s also played in the 2012 Flashback OVA which is, as far as I know, Minmay last concert. Since then, all the Macross sequels, Macross 7, Frontier and Delta, give it a lot of importance to the song.

One thing worth noting is that every Macross sequel from Flash Back 2012 onwards blends aspects from both the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series and the Macross: Do You Remember Love? movie when flashing back to the events of the First Space War.

Kawamori's "broad strokes" attitude towards continuity means there really isn't a single fixed interpretation of the First Space War.  Do You Remember Love? is a movie in the universe, but the in-universe version is also apparently different to the one we've seen given footage from it shown in Macross 7 that includes Max and Milia's wedding and other scenes which were not in the theatrical film.  Several other takes, like Macross II: Lovers Again's parallel world continuity, the DYRL? novelization, and Macross the First all have takes on the timeline that merge aspects of the TV and Movie storylines.

 

Quote

So, it didn’t exist during the SDFM  timeframe as, due the song preeminence, it couldn’t be ignored by the series. It’s debut was not in 2031, when the film was premiered, as Minmay disappeared onboard the Megaroad on 2016. So, I think it was recorded by Minmay between the end of SDFM and Flashback 2012, right? Is there any hint elsewhere on how the song was discovered or developed besides the story told in Macross: DYRL?

Macross Chronicle offers no guidance as to when the song emerged.

It's possible that it was recorded for one of the earlier docu-drama projects, like the one mentioned in Master File that dramatized the events of the First Space War's start.

Or it may be that the version of Flash Back 2012 we saw was itself a later dramatization from one of the many dramas about Minmay's life mentioned in later shows, that draws upon the material of the 2031 movie.  Minmay's enduring popularity seems to have a lot more to do with dramatizations of her life than it does her actual career.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Seto Kaiba

[Brofessor]

All great points concerning the logic behind the Zentradi clones. The ethical point makes sense but prior to the Zentradi discovery of Earth, in all their cycles, why wouldn't Boddole Zer or Laplamiz have made squads of their best soldiers? Laplamiz could've made squads of Milia's and even exterminated them after a battle to avoid any personality issues. Is it possible to clone their skills or consiousness for insertion into each clone?

I am only familiar with SDF Macross, and I am ignorant of the Protoculture civilization so excuse my ignorance in the following. If the males and females self-segregated and became the Supervision Army, Meltrandi, and Zentradi, maybe the clones we now know are clones of the original Protoculture civilization. Perhaps their arrogance led to non-identical clones as they were proud of their individual clones. Could this be why the out-of-universe writers never considered identical clones? Is there an internal logic to the clones being non-identical?

You made good points about non-identical clones providing a richer storytelling experience from an out-of-universe perspective. It probably allows for more creative choices in the plots and subplots.

[Gerli]

On 2/25/2020 at 11:31 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

He's not nothing on Shammy... she had ELEVEN.  For a while there, there were two rabbits on the moon...   

 

Do you remember where this info come from? 

[Seto Kaiba]

4 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

The ethical point makes sense but prior to the Zentradi discovery of Earth, in all their cycles, why wouldn't Boddole Zer or Laplamiz have made squads of their best soldiers?

Well, the easy answer is that the Zentradi don't have any control over their factory satellites... and the mass cloning of Zentradi troops is handled by factory satellites dedicated to that purpose.

 

4 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

Is it possible to clone their skills or consiousness for insertion into each clone?

It is, at least the way humans were operating the cloning tech.

 

4 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

I am only familiar with SDF Macross, and I am ignorant of the Protoculture civilization so excuse my ignorance in the following. If the males and females self-segregated and became the Supervision Army, Meltrandi, and Zentradi, maybe the clones we now know are clones of the original Protoculture civilization.

The Protoculture only separated along gender lines in the movie version of the story (Macross: Do You Remember Love?), where the Protoculture men and women separated after the introduction of cloning tech that took the need for romance and biological reproduction out of their social equation.  There was no Supervision Army in that version of the story, the war was between the men's clone army (Zentradi) and women's clone army (Meltrandi).

The TV version of the story has the divide that caused the Protoculture civil war be a socio-political one of unspecified nature.  The Zentradi were originally all-male, and the female Zentradi were created later along with the Queadluun series when the males proved incapable of operating the Queadluun effectively.  The Protoculture decided that they'd build a better pilot instead of downgrading their top of the line battle suit.  

In both cases, the Zentradi and Meltrandi are based on the ancient Protoculture's DNA... modified to make them better expendable soldiers.

 

4 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

Perhaps their arrogance led to non-identical clones as they were proud of their individual clones. Could this be why the out-of-universe writers never considered identical clones? Is there an internal logic to the clones being non-identical?

As noted previously, totally homogenous clone armies don't really leave any opening for individual excellence because the soldiers are all the same.  If there's variety, you have the chance for soldiers to develop individual talents that can be used as the basis for later improvements.  

 

[Seto Kaiba]

9 minutes ago, Gerli said:

Do you remember where this info come from? 

Macross 7 Docking Festival

[Gerli]

25 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross 7 Docking Festival

Thanks!

[Zinjo]

On 2/25/2020 at 4:53 PM, Tochiro said:

Keep in mind that the original tv series is also a tv series within the Macross universe too, so it could always be that the director just wanted to use different songs :-D

This is true.  Though it side steps the whole ST, SW rabid canonite fanbase situation that other franchises suffer from.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Zinjo

[Valkyrie Driver]

22 minutes ago, Zinjo said:

This is true.  Though it side steps the whole ST, SW rabid canonite fanbase situation that other franchises suffer from.

Which is actually one thing I adore about this fan community. "Oh, you like Macross II? That's cool, it's not my favorite, but you do you boo boo..." as opposed to "Current Disney canon is terrible and inconsistent and it's all childish trash, REEEEEE!!!!!"

I'll take our relative indifference to outright hostility any day...

[pengbuzz]

10 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

Which is actually one thing I adore about this fan community. "Oh, you like Macross II? That's cool, it's not my favorite, but you do you boo boo..." as opposed to "Current Disney canon is terrible and inconsistent and it's all childish trash, REEEEEE!!!!!"

I'll take our relative indifference to outright hostility any day...

Right? I happen to like some of the mecha and ships from Macross II, and I like how folks don't down that in any way.

[Seto Kaiba]

18 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

Which is actually one thing I adore about this fan community. "Oh, you like Macross II? That's cool, it's not my favorite, but you do you boo boo..." as opposed to "Current Disney canon is terrible and inconsistent and it's all childish trash, REEEEEE!!!!!"

I'll take our relative indifference to outright hostility any day...

This "relative indifference" is actually a relatively recent two-part development.

Shoji Kawamori himself explicitly rejecting the idea that Macross II: Lovers Again was "non-canon" or in any way less valid as a Macross series shut quite a few of the haters up, but we didn't achieve this current peace until the MacrossWorld staff and the admins of several major Facebook groups decided to get much stricter about policing toxic behavior and put a number of the worst offenders on notice and later banned several or all of them. 

Basically, the Macross fan community is every bit as fractious and judgemental as any other fandom... it's just that you're seeing the nice, sanitized communities where the REEEE-ing is simply not tolerated anymore.

[Valkyrie Driver]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

This "relative indifference" is actually a relatively recent two-part development.

Yeah, I'm aware. Even at it's worst, it seemed to be less of a problem than in other fandoms. Maybe that's because it's uncommon to find fellow Macross fans in the wild here in the US.

 

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Shoji Kawamori himself explicitly rejecting the idea that Macross II: Lovers Again was "non-canon" or in any way less valid as a Macross series shut quite a few of the haters up, but we didn't achieve this current peace until the MacrossWorld staff and the admins of several major Facebook groups decided to get much stricter about policing toxic behavior and put a number of the worst offenders on notice and later banned several or all of them.

Yeah, I've been lurking for a while, not really posting, because I didn't really have anything to share, but MW has seemed to become a lot calmer, than it was a few years ago. It's almost like arguing over fantasy is stupid.

 

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Basically, the Macross fan community is every bit as fractious and judgemental as any other fandom... it's just that you're seeing the nice, sanitized communities where the REEEE-ing is simply not tolerated anymore.

It's almost like we're asking people to be civilized adults on the internet, and discussing something we all enjoy. Seems like a reasonable request.

[Vagabond Elf]

On 3/1/2020 at 12:38 PM, Valkyrie Driver said:

Which is actually one thing I adore about this fan community. "Oh, you like Macross II? That's cool, it's not my favorite, but you do you boo boo..." as opposed to "Current Disney canon is terrible and inconsistent and it's all childish trash, REEEEEE!!!!!"

I'll take our relative indifference to outright hostility any day...

Unless, of course, on is so gauche as to use the "R-word" here. The reaction is no longer vitriolic, but there's still little tolerance for that story.

[JB0]

4 hours ago, Vagabond Elf said:

Unless, of course, on is so gauche as to use the "R-word" here. The reaction is no longer vitriolic, but there's still little tolerance for that story.

Hey, Harmony Gold worked really hard to gain that reputation. It would be disrespectful of us to NOT get angry.

Edited March 4, 2020 by JB0

[Seto Kaiba]

21 hours ago, Vagabond Elf said:

Unless, of course, on is so gauche as to use the "R-word" here. The reaction is no longer vitriolic, but there's still little tolerance for that story.

Eh... it's not even necessarily the R-word itself.  It's that that franchise and its fanbase have devolved into cringe comedy.

[Scream Man]

I realized recently that I had basically been calling the world at the end of Frontier 'Vajra" when discussing it, but I think I made that up in my head. Its never called anything other than 'The Vajra Homeworld" is it? We never discover what the Frontier colonists named it?

And whats the weird rocky shell thing around it?

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Scream Man said:

I realized recently that I had basically been calling the world at the end of Frontier 'Vajra" when discussing it, but I think I made that up in my head. Its never called anything other than 'The Vajra Homeworld" is it? We never discover what the Frontier colonists named it?

AFAIK, we've never been told what the New UN Government calls the former Vajra hive planet that the Macross Frontier emigrant fleet landed on.

At the very least, it probably has an itemization code like M55NGC6909 AKA "Messiah 025", the planet where the VF-25 was flight-tested for the first time.

If the Vajra had a name for it, the only people who'd know would be Ranka Lee and Sheryl Nome, and they apparently aren't talking.

Given how much fold quartz was on that planet, I'd be prepared to bet someone tried to name it "Paydirt".

 

4 hours ago, Scream Man said:

And whats the weird rocky shell thing around it?

A VERY large, VERY old Vajra nest which is home to that Vajra swarm's queen that's absolutely packed with fold quartz.

[Bolt]

Of course NUNS benefited from planet "Pay dirt". But surely SMS is more than flush now..

[Seto Kaiba]

57 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Of course NUNS benefited from planet "Pay dirt". But surely SMS is more than flush now..

Yeah, Strategic Military Services' parent company Bilra Transport had what you'd call a controlling interest in the Frontier Government thanks to having sponsored the fleet's mission to the galactic core... for Richard Bilra, everything the fleet went through was about gaining access to huge amounts of fold quartz so that he could make his dream of overcoming fold faults a reality.  Of course, New UN Government regulations on the mining and sale of fold quartz probably greatly inconvenienced his plans there... in the name of not having planet-killing fold bombs proliferating like mad.

[DewPoint]

I would think that one could harvest a decent amount of fold quartz from wreckage left at combat sites. How diligent are the fleets at recovering all the destroyed military properties? Do they really go back to salvage some time after a forced retreat? 

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, DewPoint said:

I would think that one could harvest a decent amount of fold quartz from wreckage left at combat sites.

Probably not, IMO... there isn't that much fold quartz in the body of your average Vajra and it's mostly the small, low-quality stuff that the Frontier fleet was using to manufacture MDE munitions.  There is one very brief scene in Macross Frontier Ep16 "Ranka Attack" @1:15 where we see a pair of SMS VF-25s (Alto's VF-25F and a Brownie) towing four strung-together Vajra general soldier corpses towards the Frontier fleet.  The larger, higher-purity fold quartz crystals are only present in more advanced Vajra forms and probably get damaged often during combat given that they're situated near center mass.

 

1 minute ago, DewPoint said:

How diligent are the fleets at recovering all the destroyed military properties? Do they really go back to salvage some time after a forced retreat? 

Well, we know the Zentradi don't really give a damn about recovering destroyed assets... as the galaxy is strewn with debris fields made up of Zentradi wreckage.

The New UN Forces are presumably a bit more inclined to recover lost assets, though that presumably depends on whether it is economical or safe to do so.  We see a few NUNS ships in Macross Frontier that would absolutely NOT be safe to attempt to salvage because they'd become Vajra nests.  There's an account in Master File of an emigrant fleet self-destructing any ships that were too damaged or too slow to escape an attacking Zentradi main fleet using dimension eaters to prevent the Zentradi from studying them.  A lot of the time when a mecha or ship is lost onscreen, it goes kaboom in a pretty spectacular fashion so recovery isn't an option... like when Luca's RVF-25 had to be abandoned inside a Vajra ship which was then blown to bits by the Macross Quarter's main gun.

[JB0]

11 hours ago, Scream Man said:

And whats the weird rocky shell thing around it?

Space donut. Yummy!

[Bolt]

Following the events of DYRL/SDFM , Maximilian Jenius and Milia  Fallyna Jenius formed Dancing Skull squadron? Before he became captain of Macross 7 ,and she becomes Mayor, what other squadrons or special assignments, of note, were there?

[Seto Kaiba]

51 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Following the events of DYRL/SDFM , Maximilian Jenius and Milia  Fallyna Jenius formed Dancing Skull squadron? Before he became captain of Macross 7 ,and she becomes Mayor, what other squadrons or special assignments, of note, were there?

Max and Milia formed the NUNS Special Forces team "Dancing Skulls" in 2014 aboard the cruiser Algenicus.  

During their tenure with the Dancing Skulls, Max and Milia participating in the flight testing of a number of different prototype VFs including the VF-5000, VF-9, VF-11, and VF-14.  The VF-9 is noted to have been strongly influenced by Milia's preferences, and Max and Milia's input was also the deciding factor in adopting canards on the VF-11.  Max was later (2028) appointed captain of the stealth space cruiser Haruna, while Milia was appointed as an instructor at the Eagle's Nest Air Tactics Center (basically TOPGUN for the Spacy).  They served aboard the space carrier Red Moon in 2031 where Mylene was born.  In 2038, Max was granted command of Battle 7 as part of the 37th long-distance emigration fleet and Milia was attached as his XO.  She also served as a chief flight instructor for the Spacy forces based in the fleet where she trained Gamlin.  Milia retired from the Spacy in 2042 to become Mayor of City 7.  

[Bolt]

Awesome . Thanks!

[Bolt]

In Macross plus. During the space live fire exercise with the GhostX-9 taking out remote VF-11's, is it safe to assume the Ghost was deployed from one of the carriers nearby? Also does anyone know the type and name of the ship that the smug looking captain (admiral?)drinking his coffee is on, during the exercise?

[Seto Kaiba]

7 minutes ago, Bolt said:

In Macross plus. During the space live fire exercise with the GhostX-9 taking out remote VF-11's, is it safe to assume the Ghost was deployed from one of the carriers nearby?

Probably, yeah... there were a LOT of ships in that general area (Earth orbit).

 

7 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Also does anyone know the type and name of the ship that the smug looking captain (admiral?)drinking his coffee is on, during the exercise?

That'd be the SDF-1 Macross.

General Higgins is the Chief of Staff for the New UN Forces in 2040, and a leading proponent of unmanned fighters.

The Macross in this era is essentially the space pentagon, the headquarters of the New UN Forces.

[Bolt]

Ah. Ok that makes sense. My earlier assumption was that he was aboard a ship in space. But he was actually overseeing from the SDF-1 on Earth..