The Newbie and Short Questions thread

[GMK]

I’m looking for the old-school pics of cel-shaded cannon fodder VF-1, preferably in Gerwalk mode. The Macross Mecha site has one pic, but only the left three quarter view. 

[Master Dex]

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

"Henohenomoheji" (He-no-he-no-mo-he-ji) or, less commonly, "hehenonomoheji". 

It's a meaningless pseudoword that is used to refer to the face you can make from those hiragana characters.  Kids draw them as faces on scarecrows or teru teru bozu, and it shows up in fiction a lot as a face drawn on a dummy or other body double to taunt the discoverer.

 

22 minutes ago, sketchley said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henohenomoheji

Thanks guys. The answer was top down inside out, heh. Cool. Also like the information of its usage.

[Master Dex]

12 minutes ago, GMK said:

I’m looking for the old-school pics of cel-shaded cannon fodder VF-1, preferably in Gerwalk mode. The Macross Mecha site has one pic, but only the left three quarter view. 

They didn't cel-shade much animation back then. I think I know the pic you mean on that site and I think Mr. March (or a contributor to the site) made that image on their own and it was added there. As such there isn't really a repository for that kind of stuff.

Though... a lot of the animations from the Macross Pachinko game has a cel-shaded quality to it, and there is no shortage of screens you could take from that I suppose. I might even be able to get a few given enough time (though others could beat me to it probably).

[GMK]

Regarding SDFM & DYRL?: are the pilot’s helmets the same?

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, GMK said:

Regarding SDFM & DYRL?: are the pilot’s helmets the same?

Almost.

The basic design of the helmet is the same and they look identical from the front except for character-specific color schemes, but there's some extra business on the back of the DYRL? version between the neckline and where that ridge going around the crown of the head is that provides an attachment point for a pair of oxygen hoses from the backpack.

There's a really good side-by-side of them in identical poses in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.1 on page 76.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[GMK]

54 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Almost.

The basic design of the helmet is the same and they look identical from the front except for character-specific color schemes, but there's some extra business on the back of the DYRL? version between the neckline and where that ridge going around the crown of the head is that provides an attachment point for a pair of oxygen hoses from the backpack.

There's a really good side-by-side of them in identical poses in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.1 on page 76.

Thanks for that. They look close enough in scale terms, so that’s a relief!

[Bolt]

We’ve touched on this a little before .

wasnt the VF-25 supposed to be the “next’ main stay fighter of NUNS by the the time the Delta story occurred ?

 

[Focslain]

16 minutes ago, Bolt said:

We’ve touched on this a little before .

wasnt the VF-25 supposed to be the “next’ main stay fighter of NUNS by the the time the Delta story occurred ?

 

@Seto Kaiba might have a more detailed answer, but iirc the short answer is yes.

The reason the local garrison in the cluster were using VF-171 was due to budget concerns since the 171 was cheaper and easier to make then the more advanced 25s.

It also the reason why only the main force attached to protect Walkure had the newest fighters, ie the VF-31

[slide]

16 minutes ago, Focslain said:

It also the reason why only the main force attached to protect Walkure had the newest fighters, ie the VF-31

 

Which, IIRC, was in development because the NUNS wouldn't sell or support local construction of the 25 in a backwater globular cluster with a recent history of insurrection....

[Sildani]

...and Xaos might not have been able to afford them, anyway. They’re no SMS, after all. 

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, Bolt said:

wasnt the VF-25 supposed to be the “next’ main stay fighter of NUNS by the the time the Delta story occurred ?

For the New UN Spacy defense force maintained by the Macross Frontier fleet government and those of its close allies who chose to purchase it... not for all New UN Spacy forces in the entire galaxy.

For logistical reasons, the New UN Government gives the emigrant fleets and planets a fair amount of autonomy when it comes to deciding how best to arm local defense forces that operate under the auspices of the New UN Forces.  The idea of having a single model of VF be the universally adopted standard arguably died with the VF-4, which was an excellent space fighter and indifferent atmospheric craft that ended up sharing the main fighter role with a slew of different low-cost atmospheric VFs depending on the needs of the various newly settled planets.  It was definitively a dead idea after Project Nova, when a number of the New UN Gov't members opted to adopt the VF-14 over the winning VF-11 design like the Varauta 3198XE colony that would later be captured by the Protodeviln and become the antagonists in Macross 7.  General Galaxy's VF-171 Nightmare Plus was widely adopted as a 4th Generation main fighter, but there are noted cases where fleet or planetary governments opted for all-Ghost air forces or designs from other manufacturers like the Sv-154 Svard used by Windermere IV.

Between the arms export restrictions the New UN Gov't imposed in the early 2040s in an effort to keep advanced weapons out of the hands of anti-government forces and the ever-increasing size of emigrant populations, the 5th Generation was the first one to have some emigrant governments developing their own next-generation fighters using the redacted specs for Earth's next-gen VF prototype (the YF-24 Evolution) as a starting point.  The VF-25 was one of two YF-24 derivative programs locally developed in the Macross Frontier fleet.  The VF-27 was the same in Macross Galaxy.  The VF-31 is the next main fighter the Brisingr Alliance had locally developed to replace their VF-171s.  Earth and the federal New UN Forces have the VF-24, which is allegedly an incredibly overpowered fighter that is rivaled only by the YF-29.

 

1 hour ago, Focslain said:

The reason the local garrison in the cluster were using VF-171 was due to budget concerns since the 171 was cheaper and easier to make then the more advanced 25s.

Not quite. 

The reason the Brisingr Alliance NUNS was still using the VF-171-II was because their economy is stagnant, and instead of buying an export model from Earth or another emigrant government they opted to try to stimulate their economy by locally developing an original 5th Generation fighter to replace the VF-171 that they could then market to their allies as an export model.

The VF-31 Kairos is their next main fighter, slated to enter military service c.2069 or 2070.

[GMK]

For SDFM, did the cannon fodder pilots have the equivalent cannon fodder flight suit & helmet colours? Thanks. 

[Bolt]

37th Super Long Range Emigration  Fleet Macross 7 , launched 2038..

Lasr seen active in deep space near planet Zola 2047..

From Sketchley’s Stats.

Did macross 7 make land fall somewhere eventually, or is it ,presumably, still traveling the Galaxy?

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, GMK said:

For SDFM, did the cannon fodder pilots have the equivalent cannon fodder flight suit & helmet colours? Thanks. 

We seldom get to see them, but the one I recall offhand was this chap from episode 28, one of the pilots in that platoon that Hikaru had with them when he landed in that field of flowers.  Both members we see are wearing the same green trimmed suit design.

 

 

8 hours ago, Bolt said:

Did macross 7 make land fall somewhere eventually, or is it ,presumably, still traveling the Galaxy?

Max and Milia are both at that age, you see... they're still circling, looking for the perfect parking spot.  

(AFAIK we don't know if they've found a planet yet or not.)

[GMK]

Thanks @Seto Kaiba most helpful. 

[VF-27_driver]

HI all,

Sorry, but for perhaps the 55th time, what is with the German in Delta?

Thanx,

Ear-ick

 

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, VF-27_driver said:

HI all,

Sorry, but for perhaps the 55th time, what is with the German in Delta?

 

In all seriousness, Macross Delta is making at least a few references to Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen which probably has something to do with the gratuitous German.

Starting in Macross 30, Macross has been making a fair few Norse references with regard to the ancient Protoculture and Wagner did love loosely adapting Norse sagas.  The choice of theme naming in Macross Delta's cast, making many of them references to famous aces and aircraft manufacturers, also contributed since many of the most famous historical aces are German or Prussian.

[Bolt]

As far as we know, Frontier Macross is the latest immigration fleet to discover a new (liveable) planet?

[Mazinger]

 

On 12/6/2018 at 11:20 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

It was definitively a dead idea after Project Nova, when a number of the New UN Gov't members opted to adopt the VF-14 over the winning VF-11 design like the Varauta 3198XE colony that would later be captured by the Protodeviln and become the antagonists in Macross 7.

Sad there's never been a widely sold VF-14, Protodevlin figs, or Vajra for that matter.  I googled around for any kits based on the VF-14 and guess where I found pics and a kit - that's right, MWF, back from 2013.  Hopefully, Bandai has a prototype they would deem us peasants lucky enough to purchase in HM-R form.  Feels like there's a hole without a proper enemy fighter to pew-pew against with my chunky VF-17d's.  Oh, Bandai, also a VF-11 MAXL, while you're at it.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Mazinger

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

As far as we know, Frontier Macross is the latest immigration fleet to discover a new (liveable) planet?

It's the most recent one mentioned, yes.

 

1 hour ago, Mazinger said:

Sad there's never been a widely sold VF-14, Protodevlin figs, or Vajra for that matter.

Yeah... unfortunately the non-variable stuff just isn't as action figure-friendly as the VFs.

[Focslain]

So tried googling it but my fu is weak...

So from what I've read Basara at one time levels a mountain with his voice. If true what song was he singing? 

[Seto Kaiba]

33 minutes ago, Focslain said:

So from what I've read Basara at one time levels a mountain with his voice. If true what song was he singing?

As a kid, Basara tried to literally move an actual mountain with his song (and an acoustic guitar)... is that what you're referring to?

(I mean, I guess you could say that his song moved an entire planet once.  Thought, strictly speaking, his song only actually moved Gigile emotionally.  It was Gigile blowing himself up that actually moved the planet... by compressing it into a singularity, not unlike a dimensional warhead.)

[Focslain]

24 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As a kid, Basara tried to literally move an actual mountain with his song (and an acoustic guitar)... is that what you're referring to?

(I mean, I guess you could say that his song moved an entire planet once.  Thought, strictly speaking, his song only actually moved Gigile emotionally.  It was Gigile blowing himself up that actually moved the planet... by compressing it into a singularity, not unlike a dimensional warhead.)

No, thought that there was a point in the series (or one of the movies) that a song literally leveled a mountain. 

[JB0]

I think that was the movie, and him and Emilia managed to cause an avalanche. Mostly Emilia.

[Master Dex]

3 hours ago, JB0 said:

I think that was the movie, and him and Emilia managed to cause an avalanche. Mostly Emilia.

And really just cause her singing is really loud cause of that Zentran diaphragm. The song energy just made the crops grow, heh.

[Bolt]

In regards to Richard Bilrer, owner of SMS.

He is also the founder of SMS?

It is suspected he is one of the 23 Zentradi defectors during the first space war..is this because he has an image of Lynn Minmay in his fold quarts ring, or is there additional evidence in frontier ,or somewhere else to support this theory?

Also, he must have a Zentradi name , no?

Richard is an Earth name..

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

He is also the founder of SMS?

He founded and owns the company that founded SMS (Bilra Transport), so yes... albeit indirectly.

Bilra Transport established Strategic Military Services as a wholly-owned subsidiary to provide security for its interstellar shipping business, and the company later expanded its operating profile into defense contracting.

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

It is suspected he is one of the 23 Zentradi defectors during the first space war..is this because he has an image of Lynn Minmay in his fold quarts ring, or is there additional evidence in frontier ,or somewhere else to support this theory?

Not quite.  He's indicated to have been the captain of a ship in the Vrlitwhai branch fleet when it sided with the remains of the UN Forces during the First Space War.  He adopted Earth culture after the war, and like a number of prominent Zentradi he adopted a human name as well.  He's one of several former subordinates of Vrlitwhai's to go on to be movers and shakers in the world.  He does stand out as the only one to appear who has thus far not become an antagonist.  Macross VF-X2's Timothy Daldhanton and Macross the Ride's Naresuan were also former subordinates of Vrlitwhai's who were so enamored of Earth's culture that they adopted human names.  (Naresuan is a historical name, one of the most revered monarchs in Thailand history.)

 

 

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Also, he must have a Zentradi name , no?

Richard is an Earth name..

His original designation is unknown, AFAIK.

Like a number of his colleagues, he adopted a human name when he integrated into Earth society.

[mickyg]

I'll admit to not having searched this one at all, so apologies in advance...

Just picked up the new 1/48(ish) DX VF-1J and instead of waiting for the DX missile set, I'm going to modify the 1/48 Hasegawa set to fit.  I'll attempt magnets and some custom mounts on the model kit parts, with an effort to keep the DX toy as close to un-modified as possible.

In my research on what an AMM-1 is supposed to look like, it appears SDFM has a white missile body, with black stripes and a red fin section.  In DYRL, the missile is all white, with only one black stripe near the warhead.

I thought this was a open/close case but then see there have been some recent posts by others in various threads, where screen shots in SDFM show the AMM-1 missile occasionally appear to be plain white.  Especially in the case of the VF-1J that Hikaru is piloting.

Any ideas which is actually correct for SDFM and Hikaru's personal machine?

Edited January 16, 2019 by mickyg
grammar

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, mickyg said:

Any ideas which is actually correct for SDFM and Hikaru's personal machine?

The AMM-1 has appeared in three distinct color variants in the animation.  One that's plain white with a black stripe on the nose, one with a red band around the vernier belt, and one that has a red nose and red tail.

Hikaru's VF-1J is variously shown with all three versions at one point or other, but the plain white version is the one used most often in the art and animation (probably due to it being the easiest to draw).  Macross Chronicle and Master File both use the plain white version, as does Tenjin's art.

[Vagabond Elf]

20 hours ago, mickyg said:

 Any ideas which is actually correct for SDFM and Hikaru's personal machine?

This is of course just my opinion, but I've always interpreted it as:

The plain white is an animation shortcut and not what the "real" missile looks like; the other two colour schemes denote different warhead or seeker types. For example perhaps the red nose is a proximity-fragmentation for large area of effect whilst the black stripe is a HESH or HEAP warhead for anti-armour work; or perhaps the red nose is a fire-and-forget heat-seeker whilst the black nose is a semi-active radar-seeker.

 

Thus in my mind, either colour scheme (or a mix!) is "correct" for Hikaru depending on what his mission profile was that day.

[Seto Kaiba]

24 minutes ago, Vagabond Elf said:

This is of course just my opinion, but I've always interpreted it as:

 The plain white is an animation shortcut and not what the "real" missile looks like; the other two colour schemes denote different warhead or seeker types. For example perhaps the red nose is a proximity-fragmentation for large area of effect whilst the black stripe is a HESH or HEAP warhead for anti-armour work; or perhaps the red nose is a fire-and-forget heat-seeker whilst the black nose is a semi-active radar-seeker.

For what it's worth, you're actually not that far off.

The more detailed art from later Macross shows like Macross Zero and Macross Frontier does suggest the UN Forces and New UN Forces adhere to an ordnance color coding system similar to the one used by the US Armed Forces... complete with a few gaffes in Macross Zero where it's clear the reference photographs the artists were working from were showing dummy ammunition (based on their color banding).  It seems to be used for warhead type, at least.  That said, art from the same period for the AMM-1 generally depicts it as plain white with a single black band (possibly marking it out as an anti-armor warhead, though the official description suggests it's an anti-armor blast-fragmentation type).

Guidance is a stickier wicket.  Most missiles in the Macross universe use hybrid guidance systems due to the prevalence of powerful OTM-based ECM and active radar stealth tech on variable fighters.  The AMM-1A Arrow is noted to use a combination of ECCM-supported active radar homing, passive imaging infrared homing, and optical contrast seeker guidance systems to guide itself onto its target.  VFs by their very nature being inclined to high maneuverability, semi-active homing is vanishingly rare except on bombs since it necessitates a firing aircraft stay relatively in line with the missile.

[mickyg]

Thanks all!

So at the very least, I could try to put some sort of seeker cover into the nose of the missile, as I seem to recall reading about it being hybrid as well.  If it was active radar, the flat and usually white nose certainly makes sense.  But if it's infrared or optical of any sort, it's got to have a transparent (for that wavelength at least) cover on the nose. 

Looking at the Mr March's Macross2 site (HERE) we see it shown like this:

Which is what I was going to attempt.  But perhaps that'd be adopting the less commonly shown version.

Maybe I'll do a mix of all white and this one shown here and call it good...

[Vagabond Elf]

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 semi-active homing is vanishingly rare except on bombs since it necessitates a firing aircraft stay relatively in line with the missile.

I thought real-world HARMs were considered semi-active? Although I suppose in Macross a HARM would be able to go active if the emitter shut down, so even then the term wouldn't really apply.

16 hours ago, mickyg said:

 

Which is what I was going to attempt.  But perhaps that'd be adopting the less commonly shown version.

Maybe I'll do a mix of all white and this one shown here and call it good...

It is of course your display, and you should prioritise what makes you the most satisfied. My approach, though, is usually less "this exactly matches the official art" and more "this is vaguely justifiable and looks good." It sounds to me like you want to go with "looks good" and are hung up on "but it's not 'correct'." If so, you simply need to decide which parameter is more important to you.

I do think the mix would look cool, FWIW.

[Seto Kaiba]

22 minutes ago, Vagabond Elf said:

I thought real-world HARMs were considered semi-active? Although I suppose in Macross a HARM would be able to go active if the emitter shut down, so even then the term wouldn't really apply.

The Texas Instruments/Raytheon AGM-88 HARM was originally designed with a passive radar homing system with home-on-jam capability to defeat noise jamming.  The later AGM-88E AARGM upgrade added GPS and inertial guidance systems as well as an EHF active radar homing system for terminal guidance in the event that the target moves or attempts to shut its radar down before the missile reaches it.

 

22 minutes ago, Vagabond Elf said:

It is of course your display, and you should prioritise what makes you the most satisfied. My approach, though, is usually less "this exactly matches the official art" and more "this is vaguely justifiable and looks good." It sounds to me like you want to go with "looks good" and are hung up on "but it's not 'correct'." If so, you simply need to decide which parameter is more important to you.

Quite frankly, I'm on the side of "looks good" over 100% accuracy.

For the classic TV VF-1J, the red accents on the missiles will really pop against the white airframe.

[Sildani]

Was it ever stated what unit Isamu Dyson was assigned to before his forceable transfer to New Edwards? 

Any resource, as well, for the colors UN Spacy flight suits were made in at the time of Macross Plus? Were they all blue with white bits?

Lastly: for the VF-11, the model kits seem to have the panel lined area of the wing roots made with transparent bits. The Yamato toys are blanked off solid grey. Which is correct, and what’s under there, do we know?Thanks!

Edited January 19, 2019 by Sildani