Technology you F'ng hate thread

[mikeszekely]

I look at you North Americans mobile phones, and just shake my head at the limited options, both hardware

I disagree. Sure, we don't have that many "dumbphones," but the market is trending away from them. On the smartphone front we've got two iPhones, a handful of Palms, a few Windows Phone 7 handsets, probably one or two Windows Mobile 6 devices, a couple of Symbians, a plethora of Blackberries, and more Android handsets than you can shake a stick at. Among those smartphones, you've got touchscreen only phones, phones with the keyboard under the screen in portrait, phones with slideout keyboards in portrait, phones with slideout landscape keyboards, phones with d-pads, phones with trackballs, phones with styluses, phones aimed at business users, phones with great cameras, phones with processors more powerful than the laptop you had five years ago, phones with 4G, etc. Trust me, we've got plenty of options for hardware.

...and connection wise

Can you elaborate? Are you referring to the limited number of carriers? CDMA vs GSM? 3G vs 4G? Or are we going to get into the differences between HSPA and EVDO? Frankly, I've thought of connection as a major factor when selecting a phone. Could my dumbphone make calls and send texts? That was enough back then. Could my smartphones check my email and get on the internet? For a time, it was enough that it did. Verizon's starting to sell LTE 4G phones, just about the time that I'm getting sick of their slowish 3G speeds, so my next phone will almost certainly be 4G. And in the mean time, if there's some kind of connection that we don't have, I can't say I'm missing whatever it might be.

...and the total lack of customer service.

This is the only point I'm prepared to agree with. Customer service ranges from lousy to adequate here. No one's going about and beyond the call of duty, here. Prices are outrageous, with carriers more inclined to throttle data usage and set limits for minutes, texts, and data than to build up their infrastructure. And when real improvements are made, the carriers see that as an excuse to add even more fees. After rent and my car payment, my cellphone bill is the largest. Be that as it may, this situation is unlikely to change anytime soon. We're down to four big carriers and a handful of smaller ones, and the four biggies feel comfortable gouging customers as long as they're all doing it. And while I have looked at my cellphone bill in disgust, I can't say that at any point have I thought to myself, "Screw this, I'm moving to Japan where I can get cheaper, better cellphone service."

[big F]

Totally agree on that. 2 years ago I got some casio cell phone from AU and now its collecting dust while im using my Iphone from softbank, plus having an Iphone in japan is a novelty like girls in the clubs like that you have one.

LOL now there's an app you can't get at the Appstore

Apple the digital pimp in your pocket.

[sketchley]

Trust me, we've got plenty of options for hardware.

Plenty was never in disagreement. The question is: does the North American market offer as much variety in any given year? "Almost all Japanese manufacturers make two generations of phones in ONE year ". This is pretty consistent across the majority of East Asian markets.

Can the same be said of the North America market? If yes, then the potential hardware options are similar, and the only limiting factor would be how many different mobile phones any one provider offers.

Can you elaborate?

Infrastructure and number of providers.

And while I have looked at my cellphone bill in disgust, I can't say that at any point have I thought to myself, "Screw this, I'm moving to Japan where I can get cheaper, better cellphone service."

Why Japan? The most high-tech in the Asian market would be South Korea (the mobile-phone-as-electronic-wallet was introduced in 2000, 5 or more years earlier than Japan). I can't say with authority about the other non-North American markets, but Germany is usually a fairly safe bet.

I'm puzzled why some of the respondents are assuming that North America = the USA (when it doesn't. Last I checked, Canada and Mexico haven't given up their sovereignty) and that the unspoken comparative in my initial post means Japan (it has always meant the rest of the World, sans North America). I'm also puzzled by those who are continuing to try and polarize this discussion into USA vs Japan, or the illogical comparisons of "Smart Phone" vs "mobile phone" technologies. In fact, I could care less about which market is "superior". I'm happy with what I have, others are happy with what they have. Moving along.

Edited March 23, 2011 by sketchley

[sketchley]

(...) endless menus to do simple things (4 menus to get a contacts number),

?

All the phones I've been using in Japan since 2003 have had either a dedicated contacts/address book button or pressing one of the directions on the big round button accesses the address book.

That's 1 button push.

Now, I can appreciate the difficulty of navigating the address book if you've switched your Japanese mobile phone to English, as there were many pre-2008 models that didn't organize the address book list when the phone was set to English, but requiring more than one button push? Isn't that classified as a user-misunderstanding?

[Renato]

I think the only reason they put so many pointless features into mobile phones in Japan is because no-one actually uses them as a phone over here. You're banned from talking on the phone in virtually every public space. What on earth can you do with one without internet/crappy games/(non-mp3-compatible)music players? Bleah. I often leave my house without mine these days. I can do without the radiation, too.

[SherylFan888]

It also emphasizes the Galapagos Effect mentioend earlier(as it pertains to cell phones) quite clearly:

They're also at the mercy of the all-powerful carriers, like NTT DoCoMo -- the company that created the localized 3G network that makes Japanese handsets virtually obsolete in the rest of the world -- who get to decide what applications and functions are compatible with their networks. "The flashy little functions are cool, but they're carrier-specific," Hayashi says. "Once you take this out of Japan, it's just a piece of metal." Japanese companies only make 5 percent of global mobile phone sales, and all of those sales are domestic.

Given these similarities in opinion, perhaps Wired magazine writers are also a bunch of gun-toting American Nationalists (though probably more tech-savvy ones )?

Hate to say this.... but OWND

[sketchley]

Hate to say this.... but OWND

So you're congratulating me for the ownage because I was the one that introduced the other party to the article?

Let's not forget that the dude being quoted is obviously biased against non-smart phones. On top of that, he's completely ignorant about Japanese phones being usable outside of Japan. I know this because the phone I had from Japan worked overseas in 2004.12. That's a good 5+ years before that dude's article. On top of that, even without a signal, the phone's inherent functions still work; eg camera, address book. Hunk of metal? Maybe only for a biased user who use a different handset as their primary phone.

Lastly, the dude's a douche-bag because he's forgotten that the TV works by radio signal. So, too does the talking and internet data connection parts. So, of course when ANY phone is underground in the subway, NOTHING's going to work. Dumb Phone, Smart Phone, TV, whatever.

Edited March 23, 2011 by sketchley

[Ghost Train]

So you're congratulating me for the ownage because I was the one that introduced the other party to the article? 1 Corinthians 13:11

I'll let him respond but pretty confident he meant that I'm right - that the Wired article you linked states the same thing as the NYT I mentioned earlier . I mean jeez I even included a quote straight from your article to emphasize this fact... but at this point I withdraw the selective memory assesment, as reading comprehension seems to be a bigger issue here.

I'm puzzled why some of the respondents are assuming that North America = the USA (when it doesn't. Last I checked, Canada and Mexico haven't given up their sovereignty) and that the unspoken comparative in my initial post means Japan (it has always meant the rest of the World, sans North America). I'm also puzzled by those who are continuing to try and polarize this discussion into USA vs Japan, or the illogical comparisons of "Smart Phone" vs "mobile phone" technologies. In fact, I could care less about which market is "superior". I'm happy with what I have, others are happy with what they have. Moving along.

From the get go the discussion has been whether or not your take on the difference between mobiles here and in North America is correct. You're the only one turning this into some sort of who is the most wired society debate - and even I myself have stepped up and praised Japan's telecom infrastructure. I've only brought specific country-level statistics to prove you're wrong, not that country A posses a better tech infrastructure than country B.

If we want to discuss who is turning this into a nation vs nation debate, here are some points to consider:

• You lament the oh-so poor choices we have in North America without showing evidence that is this actually the case.
  
• You attack an unbiased article that speaks to certain software deficiencies as being nationalist (and proceed to link another article to support your facts that basically states the same thing).
  
• You base your comparison primarily on a 10 year old experience with a Canadian telecom, and use this to catapult point # 1.
  
• You attribute elements of Japanese economy & society to cover up the obvious holes in your arguments.
  

I don't consider this flip-flopping and hypocricy to be a particularly responsible adult behavior that you alluded to earlier.

Stop trying to add layers of complexity and re-interpreting your original words. There is very little room for interpretation when at least 4 other members of the board have come forth, and shared recent experiences with comparisons to their own native countries, bringing into question the accuracy of your assesment. I give you credit for having perhaps lived in Japan the longest - but we're talking about a telecommunication device, something that should not take years to master.

Plenty was never in disagreement. The question is: does the North American market offer as much variety in any given year? "Almost all Japanese manufacturers make two generations of phones in ONE year ". This is pretty consistent across the majority of East Asian markets.

LOL this is a ridiculous opinion (and it's just a rehash of the other 2 wired articles you mentioned earlier, good job rofl). I'm not sure what the definition of generation this guy is using - perhaps some marketing hype is my guess. The definition of mobile networks standards (you know the ones businesses, scientists, engineers, and consumers use) come from the ITU, which places the mobile network of almost all developed countries in the high 3G and 4G end, with only South Korea close to the 5G standard - which is still being defined at the moment, with a tentative start date for implementation of 2012. link

Please show me what magical generation standard this is you're referring to, and what factors it takes into account?

Edited February 5, 2011 by Ghost Train

[mikeszekely]

Plenty was never in disagreement. The question is: does the North American market offer as much variety in any given year? "Almost all Japanese manufacturers make two generations of phones in ONE year ". This is pretty consistent across the majority of East Asian markets.

Can the same be said of the North America market? If yes, then the potential hardware options are similar, and the only limiting factor would be how many different mobile phones any one provider offers.

I can't speak for Canada or Mexico, but for the most part yes for America. I mean, sure, Apple only releases one new iPhone a year. But that's likely to be made up for by Motorola, who will release at least three new Android handsets for Verizon alone this year, or HTC, who not only has one or two Android handsets coming out this year for all the major carriers, but also has a number of Windows Phone 7 handsets on offer as well.

With Android, we have almost a problematic variety. New Android versions seem to hit every six months or so, and new phones seem to come out even faster. Considering that most Americans wind up locked into two-year contracts, pretty much whatever you buy runs the real risk of being obsolete long before your contract ends. Some are borderline obsolete before they're even released. The HTC Thunderbolt, while certainly a capable phone, has taken some criticism for offering a single-core 1GHz Snapdragon that's only a modest boost over then 10 month old Incredible, while competing phones will be offering faster, dual-core, or faster dual-core processors.

Infrastructure and number of providers.

I don't recall any Asian countries having a wealth of providers. Again, I can only speak for the US, but we've got four major companies and several smaller ones. As for infrastructure, I talked briefly in my previous post about how I wish that carriers would invest more in infrastructure instead of charging obscene rates for throttled 3G data. And while mileage may vary from carrier to carrier and depending on location in the US, but nowhere from Pittsburgh to Cleveland have I not had 3G available on my Verizon phones, nor have I had a dropped call with them. I don't think infrastructure is a problem here.

Why Japan? The most high-tech in the Asian market would be South Korea (the mobile-phone-as-electronic-wallet was introduced in 2000, 5 or more years earlier than Japan). I can't say with authority about the other non-North American markets, but Germany is usually a fairly safe bet.

Because the final point was specifically about service, and customer service in Japan is well-known for being uncommonly good. Specifically, my final point was that although I agree with you that customer service here could use a lot of improving, piss-poor customer service here isn't enough motivation to pick up and move to a country like Japan just to get better service.

I'm puzzled why some of the respondents are assuming that North America = the USA (when it doesn't. Last I checked, Canada and Mexico haven't given up their sovereignty) and that the unspoken comparative in my initial post means Japan (it has always meant the rest of the World, sans North America). I'm also puzzled by those who are continuing to try and polarize this discussion into USA vs Japan,

Can't speak for everyone here, but I've been using USA in place of North America because that's where I live, and that's where I can speak from experience. For all I know, your original statement is more applicable to Canada or Mexico, because for all I know you can't buy any phones except decade-old Nokias in those countries. And as for assuming that you mean Japan, it's natural to assume that you are also speaking from experience; that is, that your critique of the North American market is based on improvements that you personally experienced after moving to Japan.

or the illogical comparisons of "Smart Phone" vs "mobile phone" technologies.

I don't think that's what we're comparing at all. I think we're addressing your original assertion that the North American market is lacking in hardware options by pointing out that, at least in the United States, we have tons of options. My only mention of smartphone is to include the caveat that our wide variety is mostly smartphones, and a concession that if you're shopping for a dumbphone you may find that you don't have as many choices here.

[David Hingtgen]

Apparently it should have been called the "Long-winded posts about cellphone differences between nations" thread...

[Ghost Train]

Plenty was never in disagreement. The question is: does the North American market offer as much variety in any given year? "Almost all Japanese manufacturers make two generations of phones in ONE year ". This is pretty consistent across the majority of East Asian markets.

Can the same be said of the North America market? If yes, then the potential hardware options are similar, and the only limiting factor would be how many different mobile phones any one provider offers.

Given that mike has already adressed the issue of rate/year.

Other claims of variety is highly suspect. Take for example T-Mobile here in the states. Currently they offer roughly 30 unique devices (made sure not to count variations of color, etc.), of which 17 are smart. All devices are represented by 10 different brands.

If we zero in on just the smart phone segment, we find that out of the 17 devices:

13 run on Android (76%)

2 on Blackberry OS ( 12%)

2 Windows 7 Mobile ( 12%)

(Supposedly iPhone was coming last year, but didn't happen)

Comparing this to NTTDocomo's smart lineup, we see 10 smart devices:

7 Android (70%)

2 Blackberries (20%)

1 Windows (10%)

Note that T-Mobile is considered a 2nd tier carrier here in the US, and you are likely to find much greater selections and variety with AT&T and Verizon. From my limited research, NTTDocomo has a little bit less than 50% of the market share, and from what I could glean is the top dog in Japan.

... and before you jump in, and claim that a break-down by OS is unreasonable, consider the common sense idea that hardware does not execute itself, and the capabilities of a device is delivered through both OS and the hardware, as such both are important.

Since I've been such a bad jingoistic nationalist I'm going to play nice and research the Canadian selection - mainly Rogers (which I'm sure we can agree is a pretty big player in Canada's wireless market). Their lineup reveals a fairly balanced variety of smart devices, not dissimilar in frequency and brand availability like T-mobile above, running Droid, Symbian, BB, Windows, etc. The good news is that I can no longer find a phone that looks like "the brick" Nokia that traumatized you so much 10 years ago!

Having said that, and taking into account our previous discussion on hardware parity, there is pretty much nothing left in your original argument that is remotely accurate or up to date... except infrastructure and customer service, both of which no one is arguing with you on.

/thread

Edited February 6, 2011 by Ghost Train

[sketchley]

I'll (...)

You do realize that proof by assertion is a logical fallacy, right?

EDIT: last post in this tangent. Nothing more to say at this time.

Edited March 23, 2011 by sketchley

[sketchley]

I can't speak for Canada or Mexico, but for the most part yes for America. I mean, sure, Apple only releases one new iPhone a year. But that's likely to be made up for by Motorola, who will release at least three new Android handsets for Verizon alone this year, or HTC, who not only has one or two Android handsets coming out this year for all the major carriers, but also has a number of Windows Phone 7 handsets on offer as well.

(...) Considering that most Americans wind up locked into two-year contracts, pretty much whatever you buy runs the real risk of being obsolete long before your contract ends. Some are borderline obsolete before they're even released.

Ah, OK. It sucks about the contracts. I'm glad they did away with them in Japan (in the sense that you have the option to purchase the handset outright, and aren't locked into a 1 or 2 year contract to offset the cost of the handset as the provider gave it to you at no charge).

I don't recall any Asian countries having a wealth of providers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operators_of_the_Asia_Pacific_region

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operators_of_Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operators_of_the_Americas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operators_of_the_Middle_East_and_Africa

And while mileage may vary from carrier to carrier and depending on location in the US, but nowhere from Pittsburgh to Cleveland have I not had 3G available on my Verizon phones, nor have I had a dropped call with them. I don't think infrastructure is a problem here.

I think no one is denying that the more urbanized areas of any country have greater breadth of coverage. I guess you could say that my main beef with the North American market is that I come from a more mountainous region and service is lousy to bad in the semi-urbanized areas.

my final point was that although I agree with you that customer service here could use a lot of improving, piss-poor customer service here isn't enough motivation to pick up and move to a country like Japan just to get better service.

Agreed. I don't think anyone herein has asserted otherwise.

And as for assuming that you mean Japan, it's natural to assume that you are also speaking from experience; that is, that your critique of the North American market is based on improvements that you personally experienced after moving to Japan.

Understandable, but it's disappointing that no one has asked "do you have any experiences in any countries other than Japan and those in North America?" To which the answer is "yes."

I don't think that's what we're comparing at all.

Ghost Train did.

I think we're addressing your original assertion that the North American market is lacking in hardware options by pointing out that, at least in the United States, we have tons of options.

<Nods in agreement> I think if things hadn't gone off on argumentative tangents with Ghost Train, things would've been much clearly then their muddy state.

My only mention of smartphone is to include the caveat that our wide variety is mostly smartphones, and a concession that if you're shopping for a dumbphone you may find that you don't have as many choices here.

<Nods in agreement> I think that's where the two markets currently differ the most. "Smart Phones" are still relatively new to the Japanese market, and it's unclear how much market penetration they will have after a few years. "Dumb Phones", on the other hand, are still the dominant handset in the market, and are not likely to be knocked from that position - the articles I provided the links to earlier give some insight into why. Over the past week, I've been asking my adult students, and though only a few are interested in "Smart Phones", they aren't rushing to get them. The others are more than satisfied with their "Dumb Phones", as those handsets more than meet their needs (that's including surfing the internet and participating in message boards such as Mixi), and they don't consider their phones to be "old" or "broken" (said phones are 1 to 2 years old.)

Edited February 6, 2011 by sketchley

[Ghost Train]

Hey Sketch... I'm having a hard time replying to your stuff if you edit them every 30 minutes for the next week... so this is only for the stuff you had posted ~ 15 minutes ago ok? Some of this content seems to have mysteriously vanished:

"Given these similarities in opinion, perhaps Wired magazine writers are also a bunch of gun-toting American Nationalists (though probably more tech-savvy ones"

For the second time, it's not the magazine or news source, it's Ghost Train who's been trying to polarize this into a nationalistic debate. Brutus is an honourable man.

I am indeed an honorable man. Do you understand the referenced post? I stated that I'm interested in seeing a hardware comparison. I admit that the phones sold in my country are not made by American companies, and that we have customer service (complete with video proof) that is crap. So providing assesment (a negative one at that) of the US market is polarizing?

The little vignette about my friend is slightly in poor taste - but relatively mild compared to the criticism I leveled at my own domestic market. And I further qualify that as being anecdotal.

"You lament the oh-so poor choices we have in North America without showing evidence that is this actually the case."

I'm not the one who's assumed that my experiences are limited to one instance.

Yes, I have an opinion. Yes, it's different from yours. No, it's not based on one or even a limited number of instances. Yes, respondents have further solidified my opinion at the total state of things.

Oh really, more than one instance?

So in that case... what you're saying is that you're cherry-picking from your personal experiences to prove your original point, selectively suppressing stories that don't fit your statements? ... Or are you just completely oblivious to your surroundings when you leave Japan?

btw, see my last post for an up to date look at Canada's brick-phones.

"and proceed to link another article to support your facts that basically states the same thing"

No. I said Anyhow, some interesting articles I stumbled across while searching for something else:

Why the Japanese hate the iPhone: http://www.wired.com...why-the-iphone/ (somewhat out of date, but it raises good points about the conditions in the domestic market.)

In Japan, Cellphones Have Become Too Complex to Use: http://www.wired.com...06/japan_phones (again, good points about the conditions of the domestic market)

They were included to broaden the total scope of information available and not specifically to support anyone, or any point having been made. As indicated, they are out of date. Perhaps I should've stated the obvious "opinion based pieces based on limited perspectives of the market from both within and without"?

It doesn't seem to be particularly hard to find an up to date take on the iphone in Japan... with google, the first hit for me was from last year. Or are you cherry picking data here as well and wound up with a slightly dated article?

"You attribute elements of Japanese economy & society to cover up the obvious holes in your arguments."

You mean the part that started your confusion on the NYTimes article? Try rereading it again: "You're indirectly referring to things like political paradigms of the laissez faire economy vs the import substituting guided democracy, coupled with an export based economy which hasn't quite realized that MITI no longer exists and it's replacement no longer performing the same role, with a dash of nationalism on your part, and the writers of the material being directed at."

Which is a response to In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Japan is abandoning its in-house technologies and looking to the west.

If reading comprehension weren't a problem with you, you'd realize that I already clarified this in post # 165 right? Reiterated for emphasis: I admit that the line break is cause for confusion, but seeing that the sentence about looking to the west is clearly flanked by discussions on mobile hardware and software, it should be pretty clear that's what I meant. If not, I'm sorry, I am a terrible writer, I concede that much.

In fact, it's almost an apology... it's hard to get that from me.

By the way yet to see evidence showing it's America-centric or incorrect... so is the 2nd wired article you linked America-centric too given that they say the same thing?

I'm not sure what the definition of generation this guy is using - perhaps some marketing hype is my guess.

It's best for all concerned that you find you yourself as you have a tendency to misinterpret what MW members write herein.

Please show me what magical generation standard this is you're referring to, and what factors it takes into account?

You're a big boy. You don't need us to hold your hand while you do research, do you?

Why do I have to show anything, when I've already stated that the ITU (of which Japan is a member) defines standards for generation of mobile devices did I not?

"Stop trying to add layers of complexity and re-interpreting your original words."

Uhm, OK. But only if you stop misinterpreting my posts.

It's really hard not to misinterpret, when you change the scope of the discussion every time you realize you're wrong , instead of just admitting that your original assertion was garbage. Tell me this, why did at least 4 board members step up and challenge your assertions, while specifically mentioning mobile device handsets is where they disagreed?

That to me sounds like what you first wrote is what you meant. Only later did you downplay the issue of hardware parity, perhaps after realizing that using a 10 year old example does not hold much weight? Oh wait, you have other experiences, nvm.

BUT WAIT, what's this? I can't find what you said, LMAO:

You should consider moving across the pond, where you will like-minded individuals working in government who specialize in censoring and re-writing history.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Ghost Train

[David Hingtgen]

Ok, I'm not even going to try to wade through the last couple posts. Could we move on past US vs JP cell phones please?

[Ghost Train]

Yea it's also hard for me to grasp what's going on, when the other guy edits posts that are 5 days old >_< ...

[eugimon]

plastic drywall screws... they never really seem to work for me and I always end up sheering off more than a few.

[Ghost Train]

<Nods in agreement> I think that's where the two markets currently differ the most. "Smart Phones" are still relatively new to the Japanese market, and it's unclear how much market penetration they will have after a few years. "Dumb Phones", on the other hand, are still the dominant handset in the market, and are not likely to be knocked from that position - the articles I provided the links to earlier give some insight into why. Over the past week, I've been asking my adult students, and though only a few are interested in "Smart Phones", they aren't rushing to get them. The others are more than satisfied with their "Dumb Phones", as those handsets more than meet their needs (that's including surfing the internet and participating in message boards such as Mixi), and they don't consider their phones to be "old" or "broken" (said phones are 1 to 2 years old.)

I threw this article on the table http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-23/apple-iphone-captures-72-of-japan-smartphone-market-update3-.html a few posts back. Other than being more current than say I dunno... 2008, it shows a nice bump in the sales of the iphone in Japan. Also observed was a sizeable increase in Droid phones sales.

Man... it's so hard to find up to date data >_< ...

Furthermore:

Softbank Corp., the exclusive iPhone carrier in Japan, and bigger rivals NTT DoCoMo Inc. and KDDI Corp. are expanding their smartphone lineups with handsets running Google Inc.’s Android software to bolster revenue from data services.

Although this doesn't necessarily mean that the Smart slice of the pie is growing in relation to traditional mobiles, it does show that at least the carriers are investing money to bring them to market. I'm sure someone, somewhere, perhaps with a Wharton MBA in charge of billions, working on some of these carriers disagree that it's a not a worthwhile market. At the end of the day, profitability is king, who cares about the market % of smart vs dumb phones. Do you think Ferrari has a huge automobile market share? ... obviously no (it depends on how you draw the pie but whatever), but they're obviously still profitable.

It's nice to get opinions from real people, but said discussions don't necessarily reflect the whole market, as these phones are indeed being sold, and apparently well. I can easily go to a nice blue-collar pub in my neck of the woods and find a table of people fairly content with their phone's ability to do whatever it is they need and not give a crap about Droids and iPhones - this doesn't mean that the smart phone market is doomed (which at least here it's not).

Also, per the 1st Wired Article's Analysis on why the iPhone would have problems in Japan, consider that one of the reasons stated was just a generic catch all of "western brands don't typically do well" in this department. This is true, as Nokia, Motorola, etc have made very week inroads into the Japanese market in the past. In contrast, Smart Devices have penetrated much further than older generation phones, so there is more hope that they're there to stay.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Ghost Train

[mikeszekely]

Ah, OK. It sucks about the contracts. I'm glad they did away with them in Japan (in the sense that you have the option to purchase the handset outright, and aren't locked into a 1 or 2 year contract to offset the cost of the handset as the provider gave it to you at no charge).

I think that it's possible to buy some handsets outright for the GSM carriers (T-Mobile, AT&T). Technically, you can even buy a CDMA phone without a contract, as long as it's either a pay-as-you-go phone (ala Cricket or Metro PCS) or it's a phone that the carrier would normally sell with a contract. But like I've said, the market here is moving toward smartphones, since mandatory data packages mean more ways for carriers to bilk their customers. The iPhone or the latest Android phone seems reasonable at $200 on contract. Heck, my Droid Incredible was free. But if I wanted to buy the phone without a contract, it's closer to $600, which is a good $200 more than I spent on my wife's new laptop. Now, do I think that the current carrier-subsidy model has likely inflated the price of these phones (an iPod touch has almost the exact same hardware as an iPhone... so a GSM radio really costs $400?), but that model is unlikely to change unless consumer behavior changes, and that's unlikely to happen as long as they take $200 or less on contract over $600 without.

<Nods in agreement> I think that's where the two markets currently differ the most. "Smart Phones" are still relatively new to the Japanese market, and it's unclear how much market penetration they will have after a few years. "Dumb Phones", on the other hand, are still the dominant handset in the market, and are not likely to be knocked from that position - the articles I provided the links to earlier give some insight into why. Over the past week, I've been asking my adult students, and though only a few are interested in "Smart Phones", they aren't rushing to get them. The others are more than satisfied with their "Dumb Phones", as those handsets more than meet their needs (that's including surfing the internet and participating in message boards such as Mixi), and they don't consider their phones to be "old" or "broken" (said phones are 1 to 2 years old.)

The market in the has evolved to a point where, if the phone can surf the internet, it's sold as a smartphone with a mandatory data plan. I think at one time you could buy simpler phones that are probably closer to the phoens you're talking about in Japan, but these phones would still be considered smartphones in the US. When these phones wind up costing the same per month, they (like Microsoft's ill-fated Kin series of phones) wind up ignored in favor of the iPhone or Android (although Windows Phone, Palm, and Blackberry are still hanging on).

[David Hingtgen]

plastic drywall screws... they never really seem to work for me and I always end up sheering off more than a few.

In a similar vein, any sort of hook/hangar that's supposed to work in drywall. They don't. I use ones rated for like 5x as much weight as they say, and several of them, just to feel "safe" that it won't fall down---because I assume at least half of them will twist out over time.

[eugimon]

In a similar vein, any sort of hook/hangar that's supposed to work in drywall. They don't. I use ones rated for like 5x as much weight as they say, and several of them, just to feel "safe" that it won't fall down---because I assume at least half of them will twist out over time.

I've never had any luck with those hook ones. And my stud finder SUCKS. I don't know how many times it's given me the clear only to find myself hitting a stud or even one of those metal joiners. But we don't use it enough to go out and buy a nice one, only enough to complain about how much the one we do have sucks.

[taksraven]

Personally, I miss joysticks. These fifty-button controllers for X-Box and Playstation suck. Is there really a need for such complexity? Thats one of the reasons why I am sticking to PC.

[David Hingtgen]

Posts deleted. I said move on, not move on and make one last rant/slam against the other guy...

[anime52k8]

Personally, I miss joysticks. These fifty-button controllers for X-Box and Playstation suck. Is there really a need for such complexity? Thats one of the reasons why I am sticking to PC.

So you prefer 105 buttons in a less comfortable layout?

[big F]

Personally, I miss joysticks. These fifty-button controllers for X-Box and Playstation suck. Is there really a need for such complexity? Thats one of the reasons why I am sticking to PC.

The Xbox style ones have their place but you cant beat a game that works fine with you 80's Quickshot II

Love my M$ Sidewinder though great for Mechwarrior etc.

All in all though it harks back to the point that games used to be simpler and our expectations were lower.

I could spend hours with Galaga and such like.

[one_klump]

I spent hours with Galaga. you know what comes after wave 99? Wave 1. After that, I put the game down and never touched it again.

As for Tech I hate, I'm going to throw out Refrigerant 410a (R-410a), also known as Puron. It is the replacement to R-22 (Freon) as mandated by the US government. It was supposed to be safe for the environment, and more efficient at transferring heat out of the home.

In reality, it is just as bad for the environment if not worse than R-22, it is only marginally more efficient at heat transfer, and on top of that, it can self-ignite at higher pressures, causing an explosion in your house. Not a fire-explosion, but a high pressure gas rupturing through the copper lines in your walls will still cause moderate property damage.

I'm also going to rail against Arc-Fault circuit breakers. Again, they are required by the National Electric Code to be installed in every home, and every circuit that powers a living area must use one. That the normal breakers cost about $7.00, and the Arc-Fault breakers cost $35.00 is not even my real problem with them. My problem is that they are mandated for use, but there are NO recorded instances of an Arc-Fault stopping a house fire, much less saving a life.

This is what happens when the manufactures are involved in the law-making process.

[mikeszekely]

So you prefer 105 buttons in a less comfortable layout?

Well, you don't use all of them... I use maybe 10, plus four on the mouse. I think it's comfy enough, and certainly easier to aim.

[big F]

I spent hours with Galaga. you know what comes after wave 99? Wave 1. After that, I put the game down and never touched it again.

As for Tech I hate, I'm going to throw out Refrigerant 410a (R-410a), also known as Puron. It is the replacement to R-22 (Freon) as mandated by the US government. It was supposed to be safe for the environment, and more efficient at transferring heat out of the home.

In reality, it is just as bad for the environment if not worse than R-22, it is only marginally more efficient at heat transfer, and on top of that, it can self-ignite at higher pressures, causing an explosion in your house. Not a fire-explosion, but a high pressure gas rupturing through the copper lines in your walls will still cause moderate property damage.

I'm also going to rail against Arc-Fault circuit breakers. Again, they are required by the National Electric Code to be installed in every home, and every circuit that powers a living area must use one. That the normal breakers cost about $7.00, and the Arc-Fault breakers cost $35.00 is not even my real problem with them. My problem is that they are mandated for use, but there are NO recorded instances of an Arc-Fault stopping a house fire, much less saving a life.

This is what happens when the manufactures are involved in the law-making process.

About 12 years ago I was working in the refrigeration industry for a while. Most of the engineers were saying the whole change over was an expensive waste of time purely for bureaucratic reasons. Change for change sake.

Arc fault breakers by this do you mean current and rcd breakers. If you do then in the U.K they have been law on most types of. Circuits for domestic use for years. They do work as I have worked on systems where they saved house and user a few times. In the U.k we have 240v mains so the higher volt issues can yeald higher fault currents I'm not 100% on the earth requirements in the U.S but you guys use the more "safe" voltage of 110v so not so sure if they are as "needed".

[one_klump]

We have a few houses with "Stinger Legs" . I'm working on a guys house that has a 3 phase service, 2 110v and 1 277v lines at the meter. Why he has a 277v line is beyond me, since the house is not abnormally large, nor does he have a large power requirements (Natural Gas furnace, stove, water heater). They are rare, but they are around if you look for them.

As for the 110v being the "safe" voltage, I completely agree. I've seen some of the electrical workings across the pond, and frankly, much of it scares me lol.

I can see the higher voltage triggering the Arc-fault breaker much more often, as when an arc occurs, it would be a much bigger problem that with the lower 110v.

[big F]

We have a few houses with "Stinger Legs" . I'm working on a guys house that has a 3 phase service, 2 110v and 1 277v lines at the meter. Why he has a 277v line is beyond me, since the house is not abnormally large, nor does he have a large power requirements (Natural Gas furnace, stove, water heater). They are rare, but they are around if you look for them.

As for the 110v being the "safe" voltage, I completely agree. I've seen some of the electrical workings across the pond, and frankly, much of it scares me lol.

I can see the higher voltage triggering the Arc-fault breaker much more often, as when an arc occurs, it would be a much bigger problem that with the lower 110v.

Yes in blighty we use 110th on building sites and in bathrooms for razors etc, although it is double isolated so much much safer. 3 phase over here is 415v and that stings. Ive come across a few houses with it, mostly for things like potter kilns or casting pots etc.

Edited February 9, 2011 by big F

[mikeszekely]

I hate earbuds. You'd think that, with all the iCrap out there, someone would have designed earphones that are as portable as earbuds but comfortable enough to wear for longer than two or three songs.

[anime52k8]

I hate earbuds. You'd think that, with all the iCrap out there, someone would have designed earphones that are as portable as earbuds but comfortable enough to wear for longer than two or three songs.

Only in-ear headphones/earbuds I've ever found comfortable, and they're cheap. your mileage may vary though.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=11035989

[big F]

I hate earbuds. You'd think that, with all the iCrap out there, someone would have designed earphones that are as portable as earbuds but comfortable enough to wear for longer than two or three songs.

I think the problem with them is the wires always pull them out and they never quite fit well enough. I have Sony ones which are ok but also have some of the large clip over your ear type which were popular in Japan a few years ago. I had a chat with a friend a while ago about it we thought the solution would be make a cast of your ear (the sticky out bit) inside and mold it in silicon with an ear bud set in the middle. A custom made set would be more expensive but companies like B&O have been making to measure for years, my friend has some. They are great but as in our discussion he would like a total bespoke fit for his money.

Edited February 9, 2011 by big F

[eugimon]

I hate earbuds. You'd think that, with all the iCrap out there, someone would have designed earphones that are as portable as earbuds but comfortable enough to wear for longer than two or three songs.

I'm the opposite, I hate over the ear cans. They always sit wonky on the head, and push down on my ears causing them to become sore. I'll take a nice pair of ear buds any day.

[ae_productions]

plastic drywall screws... they never really seem to work for me and I always end up sheering off more than a few.

I know, right? Ever try the metal drywall screws? They are AWESOME.

BUT...they leave a big ass gaping screw hole in your wall. And you can't always putty and paint over them.

Edited February 9, 2011 by ae_productions