What do you think is the most innovative VF design?

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

I am tempted to pick the VF-1 because it was essentially the first VF and everything that came after was an evolution of it; however, I chose the YF-21 because it is so different from any other VF IMO.

1)Brain controlled

2)Changeable wing surface

3)Thrusters not in legs (I feel like this would increase the speed and performance in GERWALK/Battroid modes)

4)Dual gun pods

6 Fixed cannons mounted on bilateral arms

7)Ejectable limbs for faster top speed.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX

[UN Spacy]

I picked YF-21.

It's radically different from all the previous VF's.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hey... what gives? Where are the Macross II Valkyries?

Some of the design innovations that show up in the main continuity's VFs first appeared on the fighters created for Macross II: Lovers Again and its videogame prequels... like a support armature in the cockpit to help pilots function better under high g-force loads, the ability to control multiple drone fighters from a single VF, mounting two gunpods on one VF (and using them both at the same time), using a beam rifle as a gunpod, making railguns standard equipment on VFs as gunpods and heavy cannons, mounting a second pair of reaction engines on a VF for improved performance, application of Zentradi overtechnology in a human-built VF, etc.. At the very least, the VF-2SS Valkyrie II and VA-1SS Metal Siren ought to have made the list, since they did almost all of those things first... (kudos for first beam rifle and first use of remote weapons on a VF goes to their predecessor, the VF-4ST Siren).

(If they can't be added due to topic constraints, I'll cast my vote for the VF-4 as the first VF to mount beam weaponry in lieu of a gunpod, the first to have hull-conformal missiles, and the first to use more than one type of engine system... reaction engines, rockets, and ramjets.)

Edited October 29, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[sketchley]

As the poll is unclear if it's in universe or out of universe innovation, I go the out of universe route, and pick the VB-6. For the simple reason that not only does it retain the classic shape of the Monster, but it also has a neat looking bomber mode.

Runner up would be the VF-14, because it's simple such a radically different design then those that came before. (Hey! Why aren't the Vajra VFs in the poll?)

In universe, it'd be the VF-24 Evolution (again, why isn't it on the list?)

Hmmm, some random VFs not on the list:

VF-0D

VF-3000

VF-3000B

VF-5

VF-11 MAXL

And the VF-17/YF-19/YF-21 should be separate from the VF-171/VF-19/VF-22, as they are quite different (YF-21 and VF-22 are arguably the most similar of the lot, but they are still quite different designs with different technology.)

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

humbug! I knew this was gonna happen...I shouldn't even have bothered...You guys know way too much.

Besides, I am constrained to only twenty options by the nature of the poll, I wasn't trying to put up a comprehensive list of every valkyrie variant ever made. Why not add Blue VF-22 or Red VF-22? Because like the VF-0D, one tiny little variance (like a D wing and an extra seat)doesn't justify a spot on the poll. If you want to choose a specific model IE: VF-19 vs YF-19 feel free to add that to your post.

Sorry Seto, I figured I would get more flak from having Mac II then not... If Macross II was in the poll I would vote for the Macross Cannon and be damned that it isn't a VF.

Now, I have three spots left, if you guys are seriously interested in voting for some of these obscure models then pick your top three and I will add them.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX

[Vepariga]

I like the YF/VF-19 design,the forward swept wing gives it a sharper maneuvering curve and it looks great,rear canon,statistically beat the 21 a few other things..lol,im saying 19 anyway. 21 is pretty good tho it would be my second pick.

[Seto Kaiba]

I knew this was gonna happen...I shouldn't even have bothered...You guys know way too much.

's just an occupational hazard of dealing with well-meaning Macross bookworms like me and sketchley... don't worry about it.

Sorry Seto, I figured I would get more flak from having Mac II then not... If Macross II was in the poll I would vote for the Macross Cannon and be damned that it isn't a VF.

Eh... I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. There's no denying that Macross II: Lovers Again and Macross 7 are both somewhat polarizing Macross titles and the subject of no small amount of contention, but most of the fans here on MacrossWorld don't raise a fuss about either when they're being talked about. No sense in letting the griping of a few rude folks ruin your enjoyment of any Macross title you like.

Still, as something of a Macross II expert myself, I have to say a good deal of the complaints about the OVA I've run into tend to have their roots in misconceptions about the setting... and understandably so, since the pair of prequel games and most of the published materials explaining the setting never made it outside Japan. It also didn't help that the well-meaning licensees in the US (US Renditions, Palladium) resorted to wild guesses when the tiny fraction of the official information they had access to didn't tell them what they needed to know.

Now, I have three spots left, if you guys are seriously interested in voting for some of these obscure models then pick your top three and I will add them.

Nah... no need, you've covered all the major ones from the main Macross continuity. That's plenty to work with right there. You had a reason for leaving the Macross II ones out, so I'll cast my vote for the Stonewell/Bellcom VF-4 Lightning III on the grounds of its unconventional airframe design, being the first to implement beam guns instead of a gunpod, having those semi-recessed missiles, and having three separate main engine systems, all of different types...

(which isn't quite as messed up as noting that it's the only VF in all of Macross that has two completely different canon names, battroid modes, and transformations designed by two different people)

[Nicaragua]

I go with the YF-21 then YF-19 - they both seem to me more like the kind of thing a futuristic air/space craft should be like.

Part of the reason I wasn’t massively smitten with Macross Frontier is that I thought the VF-25 was a huge step backwards in valkyrie design.

[sketchley]

Why do an automated poll? Sure, it makes counting things easier, but as the options are waaaaaaaaaaay too limited. (As the Macross Cannon was let out of the bag, shouldn't things like the SDF-1, Battle class ships and so on be there?)

Or another option is limiting the poll to VFs by era, or VFs, another one for VA, and so on.

[anime52k8]

I vote for the VF-5, as it's the first and only VF designed for water landings. (VA-3M came much later, and it's a VA not a VF.)

[Vic Mancini]

Hey... what gives? Where are the Macross II Valkyries?

Some of the design innovations that show up in the main continuity's VFs first appeared on the fighters created for Macross II: Lovers Again and its videogame prequels... like a support armature in the cockpit to help pilots function better under high g-force loads, the ability to control multiple drone fighters from a single VF, mounting two gunpods on one VF (and using them both at the same time), using a beam rifle as a gunpod, making railguns standard equipment on VFs as gunpods and heavy cannons, mounting a second pair of reaction engines on a VF for improved performance, application of Zentradi overtechnology in a human-built VF, etc.. At the very least, the VF-2SS Valkyrie II and VA-1SS Metal Siren ought to have made the list, since they did almost all of those things first... (kudos for first beam rifle and first use of remote weapons on a VF goes to their predecessor, the VF-4ST Siren).

Except Macross II takes place in 2092 and everything else up to Frontier takes place before 2059. So the Mac2 Valks were technically the last to do all those things.

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

I go with the YF-21 then YF-19 - they both seem to me more like the kind of thing a futuristic air/space craft should be like.

Part of the reason I wasn’t massively smitten with Macross Frontier is that I thought the VF-25 was a huge step backwards in valkyrie design.

I think this is a good point minus a few little things like ex-gear, etc. I do however like the designs simply because I am a raging missle-aholic and the armored VF-25 has that in spades. Kawamori says they are moving away from passive stealth, sure, however you want to rationalize it. But then there are other things like variable swept wings and they really don't have a place on a new VF like the 25 (unless it is needed for transformation).

Edited October 29, 2010 by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Why do an automated poll? Sure, it makes counting things easier, but as the options are waaaaaaaaaaay too limited. (As the Macross Cannon was let out of the bag, shouldn't things like the SDF-1, Battle class ships and so on be there?)

Or another option is limiting the poll to VFs by era, or VFs, another one for VA, and so on.

Like I said, if you have a specific suggestion that you want to vote for, let me know what it is and I can add it. If you are going to vote for some variant of something up there, just add your rationale in a post.(best in the era, I like the color purple, can land in the water, etc)

Not meant to be a comprehensive list.

[frothymug]

Skull One, I am curious... is your avatar from the TDK t-shirt? I remember seeing some kid wearing it at college a few weeks ago.

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Skull One, I am curious... is your avatar from the TDK t-shirt? I remember seeing some kid wearing it at college a few weeks ago.

I have no idea, I was looking for a Skull One avatar when I was setting up my account and found it on google image. Your guess is probably better then mine.

[frothymug]

It was a T-shirt that came with the Robotech: Battlecry collector's edition. For the life of me, I can't find a goddamn picture of it anywhere on the internet.

[Jeff J]

If 20/20 is "perfect" vision, then the original VF-1 is the "perfect" design. It has everything you need, and no big deficiencies or significant areas of nitpick. I own several transformable toys, and the VF-1's look in vehicle and robot mode, as well as its clean transformation, makes it hands-down the best IMHO.

Since there are several different VF-1's from which to choose, I'll go with the VF-1S Strike (Red).

[Seto Kaiba]

Except Macross II takes place in 2092 and everything else up to Frontier takes place before 2059. So the Mac2 Valks were technically the last to do all those things.

Last time I checked, those two shows didn't even belong to the same Macross continuity... which isn't really the point I was making anyway. The point was that it was the creators of Macross II: Lovers Again (and its prequel games) that introduced those design innovations to Macross anywhere from 2-16 years before Kawamori used them in his designs.

Skull One, I am curious... is your avatar from the TDK t-shirt? I remember seeing some kid wearing it at college a few weeks ago.

No... this is the pose from the TDK t-shirt, albeit recycled with the addition of an awkwardly-drawn Minmay so it could be reused as promotional art for their convention tour. No clue where Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX got his avatar from...

I vote for the VF-5, as it's the first and only VF designed for water landings. (VA-3M came much later, and it's a VA not a VF.)

I really wish we had official art for this one... I know someone out there (I think it was a MW member) did his own design for the VF-5 based on the Convair F2Y Sea Dart a while back. If we actually had anything on the VF-5, I might cast my vote for it too...

Edited October 29, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Zor Primus]

Hey... what gives? Where are the Macross II Valkyries?

QFE!

Mine went to the VF-9 Cutlass...tight little fighter, mean looking Battroid

Being one of the smallest Valks, it kinda reminds me of the A-wing, quick and deadly!

Edited October 29, 2010 by Zor Primus

[Vic Mancini]

The point was that it was the creators of Macross II: Lovers Again (and its prequel games) that introduced those design innovations to Macross anywhere from 2-16 years before Kawamori used them in his designs.

I was just teasing you, buddy. I am well aware which designs came first in the real world.

[valhary]

is not in the list but i think the vf 2ss

[UN Spacy]

I'd like to know why some of you are voting for the VF-4.

In terms of innovation it's not really high on my list. But I LOVE the design though.

[twich]

I think that the most innovative and original Valkyrie designed is the SV-51. Look at all that it can do, and it is the biggest valkyrie of the non VA/VB variety. I am in love with the design and I just wish that it had been designed with head lasers and arm lasers like the VF-17 and YF-21 VF-22S.

Twich

[TehPW]

The VF-11 Thunderbolt. it's the first VF to incorperate the forearm shield (used for various reasons) even the YF-21/22 & uses something like it (the taileron's serving as half-shields in effect)...

[Mr March]

If it's strictly a VF to VF comparison and doesn't include conventional technology, I think the question is a bit disingenuous since we have the benefit of a complete future history from which to draw. The Macross Plus era pretty much included all the most innovative performance and technological leaps between eras and the era also included nearly every major Valkyrie advancement that defined the order of battle in the Macross franchise from then onward. Most likely this major leap ahead was created to reflect the incredible shifts that took place during the early colonization era, an era likely to include the greatest strides in growth, industry and economy. The anti-projectile shields, the pin-point barriers, far more lethal munitions, the fold booster, wrap-around imaging, the BDI/BDS, T-W ratios, and more were all introduced during the era. Can't think of any other eras where Valkyrie progress was so markedly contrasted to another. So the YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur and YF-21/VF-22 Sturmvogel II would be the poster children.

[s001]

1. VF-1 The mother of all valks.(Plus my favorite).

2. YF-21 Just remember Guld vs. Ghost dogfight.

3. VF-27 Virtual cockpit and quantum laser gunpod. Do I need to say more?

[Nicaragua]

1. VF-1 The mother of all valks.(Plus my favorite).

2. YF-21 Just remember Guld vs. Ghost dogfight.

3. VF-27 Virtual cockpit and quantum laser gunpod. Do I need to say more?

I would say that the VF-27's virtual cockpit is more a feature of the pilot than the fighter.

I think that the most innovative and original Valkyrie designed is the SV-51. Look at all that it can do, and it is the biggest valkyrie of the non VA/VB variety. I am in love with the design and I just wish that it had been designed with head lasers and arm lasers like the VF-17 and YF-21 VF-22S.

Twich

I love the SV-51. Its the only one of my toys i have permanently positioned in gerwalk mode, it just looks so aggressive and birdlike.

[Vic Mancini]

Technologically I have to go with the 21, for obvious reasons like the BDI, and morphing wings, etc...

Transformation-wise I really like the SV-51 for it's innovation. First valk to use bird-like feet. First to have legs that rotate at the knee for transformation. The gunpod is more integrated into the fighter than just about any valk. The use of the landing gear bay to transform the nosecone. The giraffe neck on the gerwalk is one of a kind. It goes on an on.

And I especially love the way the turbo fans position from fighter to battroid. I think it's really cool how they hide under the air brake, which doubles as a hatch, so the SV can hover and VTOL. And then how the turbo fans are exposed and become the backpack in Battroid. It's all very clever.

Add: It also launches from a submarine. The more I think about it the more I see it as the most unique Valk there is.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Vic Mancini

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Technologically I have to go with the 21, for obvious reasons like the BDI, and morphing wings, etc...

Transformation-wise I really like the SV-51 for it's innovation. First valk to use bird-like feet. First to have legs that rotate at the knee for transformation. The gunpod is more integrated into the fighter than just about any valk. The use of the landing gear bay to transform the nosecone. The giraffe neck on the gerwalk is one of a kind. It goes on an on.

And I especially love the way the turbo fans position from fighter to battroid. I think it's really cool how they hide under the air brake, which doubles as a hatch, so the SV can hover and VTOL. And then how the turbo fans are exposed and become the backpack in Battroid. It's all very clever.

Add: It also launches from a submarine. The more I think about it the more I see it as the most unique Valk there is.

Good points about the the turbofan's. For the reasons you listed though it almost seems too advanced for Mac Zero. I didn't care for it until I saw the toy and could really get a good look at all the unique aspects of its design, now I think it is probably the coolest enemy mech.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Most innovative design?

YF-21 closely followed by the SV-51

[EXO]

VF-1... I think everyone is comparing innovation to what the norm is, which would be the VF-1/VF-0. But in terms of innovation in transforming vehicles the VF-1 wasn't the run in the mill "pull out the arms and unfold the legs" type that most of the design in the 80's were. I feel that apart from the YF-21 (which I'm not that into because of the big hunk of airplane on it's back) and the VB-6 Koenig (which I like) most of the featured VF's are just variations of the YF-19. Which I guess would make it the 2nd most innovative. BTW, the VF-17 transformation reminds me of the Legioss transformation.

[Legioss]

Whatever the newest Valkyrie is according to the definition on dictionary.com, something new introduced. My supervision textbook says innovation is "the process of turning a creative idea into a useful, product, service, or method of operation" and I think that best describes the VF-19 which was innovated from the YF-19 in Macross Plus as opposed to the YF-21 which didn't translate as quickly into the final product (right?). It was creative in how it's wings were constructed and in it's transformation.

[Cpt_Gloval]

I voted for the VF-4.

Of all the valkyries this, I believe, is the most inovative. The VF-1 to an extent was build as a knee-jerk reaction of discovering that there were infact aliens out there and they were f-ing huge. They took a Fighter Jet design that was decidedly Earth made and implemented the Overtechnology discovered abord the ASS-1 to develop a craft that they felt gave them a fighting chance against the possible threat.

After SW1 they were able to sit down and actually develop a fighter with, to an extent, time. This time spent came up with the VF-4, a very non-terran looking craft.

Later valkyries may have better weapons and armor and better sub-systems within but the VF-4 showed Human inovation in a more pure form.

[charger69]

First, YF-21 for all the innovative first-time implementations before-mentioned in the topic.

Then second, VF-27 for virtual cockpit and extra large beam gun.

[Nicaragua]

First, YF-21 for all the innovative first-time implementations before-mentioned in the topic.

Then second, VF-27 for virtual cockpit and extra large beam gun.

Like I said I think the virtual cockpit is a more a feature of the VF-27's pilot rather than the craft itself. Its not like anyone can jump in the ship and use the feature unless they have the cyborg implants that Brera had.

Also I think the YF-19/VF-19 had a similar feature with wrap around images projected around the cockpit which would have pre-dated the VF-27 and didnt have require bionic surgery.