Variable Fighter Master File VF-1 Valkyrie Space Wing

[nexxstrait]

[...] the lack of a single one of either mode for either of those two fighters stood out to me.

I prefer battroid to fighter, so I agree. This third book, however, clearly has more battroid and gerwalk pics than the other two and that's why I liked it so much.

For those that don't already own it, this means:

- VF1J armored b&w lineart along with 6 color schemes

- VF1S b&w battroid lineart

- VF1A battroid with Super pack b&w lineart

- 10 pages devoted to battroid "photos" (many to the armored valkyrie) and 4 to gerwalk

Edited January 25, 2011 by nexxstrait

[wm cheng]

Where's the best place to order this book from to be delivered to Canada?

HLJ no longer has it in stock and Amazon.jp wants 3,000 yen in just shipping, that's a $70cdn book before customs, taxes and duties! Any place that still has it in stock with reasonable shipping, I don't care about speed, I can wait.

Thanks,

Wm

[nexxstrait]

Where's the best place to order this book from to be delivered to Canada?

HLJ no longer has it in stock and Amazon.jp wants 3,000 yen in just shipping, that's a $70cdn book before customs, taxes and duties! Any place that still has it in stock with reasonable shipping, I don't care about speed, I can wait.

Thanks,

Wm

Try this (ask the seller if he has any left even if it doesn't appear on the list of items, he's very helpful)

http://stores.ebay.it/nippon-dodododo

[Talos]

Where's the best place to order this book from to be delivered to Canada?

HLJ no longer has it in stock and Amazon.jp wants 3,000 yen in just shipping, that's a $70cdn book before customs, taxes and duties! Any place that still has it in stock with reasonable shipping, I don't care about speed, I can wait.

Thanks,

Wm

You might also try HMV or check with some of the sellers here on MW.

[peter]

Where's the best place to order this book from to be delivered to Canada?

HLJ no longer has it in stock and Amazon.jp wants 3,000 yen in just shipping, that's a $70cdn book before customs, taxes and duties! Any place that still has it in stock with reasonable shipping, I don't care about speed, I can wait.

Thanks,

Wm

Hey man, if you can wait, then wait till a used copy comes out for half price on Amazon JP......

My plan - I'm going to have one sent to my wife's parent's home in Japan...when we go visit this summer, I'll just bring it back with me....I can wait.

[sketchley]

I'm going to call this past bout of translation the "ARMD-II class translations": http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2668.msg41528#msg41528

As the opening pages of the Fitz Roy section looked to be loaded with nuggets of info, I went ahead and translated it all. Interesting set up, with some new variant fighters (not just VFs!)

Probably the other major find is the info on when the Guantanamo class Stealth Carrier entered production, and it's rate for the first decade.

Edited February 14, 2011 by sketchley

[Mommar]

I finally got my copy in the mail today, along with the first VF-1 book and the VF-19 book. I've seen some of the pics in other posts and on the web but I'm honestly disappointed with the quality of all of them. I realize they're renders being put over real world pics and need to fit in but it looks like all of the pictures were "taken" in a haze on a cloudy day. You can't even make out a lot of the details because they're too dark/blurry. I particularly like the VF-19 pic of the fleet with fast packs hovering over the carrier around what looks like earth... or I would, if it weren't so fartING dark. I understand space is actually dark but pretend like you took the photo while they were all facing a light source so we can see more detail. Plus, hardly any Gerwalk/Battroid. The concept for these books is cool however I feel they're lacking in execution. Actually, they should hire our own danbickell or tipatat because their homegrown models of the VF-1's are better than in these books.

[Prime]

You might also try HMV or check with some of the sellers here on MW.

If you are still looking, Wm, I just got mine from HMV Japan and shipped to Canada (Ottawa) for a total of 4,280 yen (2,600 + 1,680 shipping).

[wm cheng]

If you are still looking, Wm, I just got mine from HMV Japan and shipped to Canada (Ottawa) for a total of 4,280 yen (2,600 + 1,680 shipping).

Thanks Prime, yes, I got it from HMV for the same price and shipping too. Much better than Amazon.jp and have pre-ordered everything from now on from HLJ to avoid missing out again ;-)

[sketchley]

Translated the sections on the VT-1 and VE-1. Interesting stuff.

[Talos]

Translated the sections on the VT-1 and VE-1. Interesting stuff.

You're right, there were some interesting things in there. I particularly am fascinated by the post-war service for the planes, plus the modularity of them. Normal VF-1 tails, heads, wings, the VE-1's EW gear, etc.

Some of this I really wish was canon, because it's sensible and good stuff. It's unfortunate that the books aren't canon at all.

[sketchley]

Some of this I really wish was canon, because it's sensible and good stuff. It's unfortunate that the books aren't canon at all.

I don't want to start any debates on it, but... why would they not be canon? The books are supervised by Kawamori-san himself. At the very least, they would be part of an "expanded universe", in the truest sense of that concept's use in describing Star Wars canonicity.

[nightmareB4macross]

I guess this would make complete sense, since there are so many discrepancies when compared to the "Gold Book" and "Perfect Memory".

[Prime]

I guess this would make complete sense, since there are so many discrepancies when compared to the "Gold Book" and "Perfect Memory".

And the general comments by Kawamori about the canon of the saga itself...

[sketchley]

And the general comments by Kawamori about the canon of the saga itself...

I think it's best to consider the books in this series to be consistent with each other, the Macross Frontier revisions to canonicity, and approach designs with "they're all in Macross, somehow, somewhere"; which is consistent with Macross Frontier and Macross Plus Game Edition have done).

Going back to the VE-1: I find it interesting that it enjoys an active role long after the VF-1 has been retired from the front lines, yet later in the same book, is mentioned to have "data transmission problems" with the newer fighters. This stuff is really making me hope that the topic of the next book after the VF-25, will be the VF-11.

[Talos]

I don't want to start any debates on it, but... why would they not be canon? The books are supervised by Kawamori-san himself. At the very least, they would be part of an "expanded universe", in the truest sense of that concept's use in describing Star Wars canonicity.

As much as I wish it would be even Expanded Universe-canon, it isn't that sort. In the book, on the credits page, it says that the book is written to appear as an in-universe book and is not part of the "Official Setting", aka "Canon".

「本書「ヴァリアブルファイター・マスターファイル VF-1バルキリー　宇宙の翼」は, 「公式設定」ではなく, マクロスツリーズ作品に登場するVF-1及びVF-1バルキリーについての歴史・技術研究書であ , 2030年のマクロステイにおいて刊行された書籍に基づいて執筆されています。」

The text below is from the wiki article on the books and agrees with that.

「マクロスシリーズ設定監修の千葉昌弘や模型メーカーのハセガワ、やまとが協力しており、河森正治もスーパーバイザーとして名を連ねているが、「公式設定」ではないと断り書きがされている。」

That sort of material and the Star Wars Expanded Universe are two very different things. EU works are licensed by LFL and have to maintain an internal continuity, but they are not counted as canon to the movies. They exist on a lower level of canon. These books remind me of some old Star Wars technical magazines that I don't think were licensed as EU works(especially since they're massively outdated now), but it's been years since I saw them.

I really do like the Master File interpretation of the VT/VE-1, though. The idea of them serving for decades after as trainers is a good one and the part about the instructor controlling the extra thrusters on the super parts was hilarious. It reminded me of the American driver's ed cars with the second brake pedal on the instructor's side.

Going back to the VE-1: I find it interesting that it enjoys an active role long after the VF-1 has been retired from the front lines, yet later in the same book, is mentioned to have "data transmission problems" with the newer fighters. This stuff is really making me hope that the topic of the next book after the VF-25, will be the VF-11.

Happens in real life too, the EA-6B Prowler is still in use well over a decade since the retirement of the A-6 and KA-6 Intruder from active and reserve use.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Talos

[sketchley]

As much as I wish it would be even Expanded Universe-canon, it isn't that sort. In the book, on the credits page, it says that the book is written to appear as an in-universe book and is not part of the "Official Setting", aka "Canon".

That sort of material and the Star Wars Expanded Universe are two very different things. EU works are licensed by LFL and have to maintain an internal continuity, but they are not counted as canon to the movies. They exist on a lower level of canon.

As I said:

I think it's best to consider the books in this series to be consistent with each other, the Macross Frontier revisions to canonicity, and approach designs with "they're all in Macross, somehow, somewhere"; which is consistent with Macross Frontier and Macross Plus Game Edition have done).

And though it may not have the same licensing/internal continuity setup as Star Wars, it still makes sense to treat them as a lower level of canon, in as much as that they are written to appear as in-universe documents, under the supervision of the official setting's creator.

Edited February 23, 2011 by sketchley

[Talos]

As I said:

I think it's best to consider the books in this series to be consistent with each other, the Macross Frontier revisions to canonicity, and approach designs with "they're all in Macross, somehow, somewhere"; which is consistent with Macross Frontier and Macross Plus Game Edition have done).

And though it may not have the same licensing/internal continuity setup as Star Wars, it still makes sense to treat them as a lower level of canon, in as much as that they are written to appear as in-universe documents, under the supervision of the official setting's creator.

Ordinarily, I would probably agree with you there, especially since I like the Master File books. However, it specifically says in the text I quoted from the book itself, that it is not part of the official settings. Thus, non-canon. Nothing (besides other Master File books) will likely ever have continuity with them. Kawamori's name is attached there, but did he have any involvement?

Edited February 23, 2011 by Talos

[sketchley]

Well, we'll always have differing opinions.

Me - cool and part of an expanded universe

Talos - cool but not part of the official settings.

Nevertheless, back to the book!

I really do like the Master File interpretation of the VT/VE-1, though. The idea of them serving for decades after as trainers is a good one and the part about the instructor controlling the extra thrusters on the super parts was hilarious. It reminded me of the American driver's ed cars with the second brake pedal on the instructor's side.

If memory serves, they stopped being used as trainers because simulator technology improved and the switch to single-seat training flights.

The "second brake pedal" analogy is great.

[Talos]

If memory serves, they stopped being used as trainers because simulator technology improved and the switch to single-seat training flights.

The "second brake pedal" analogy is great.

Fairly close to what's happening in the USAF. There aren't, nor will be two-seat versions of the F-22 and F-35. Instead, they'll train some in F-16s (and of course the T-6, T-38, etc), but the conversion work will be done in the sims if I remember correctly.

[Seto Kaiba]

And though it may not have the same licensing/internal continuity setup as Star Wars, it still makes sense to treat them as a lower level of canon, in as much as that they are written to appear as in-universe documents, under the supervision of the official setting's creator.

Okay, I like these books as much as the next guy... getting deep into the nitty-gritty of the history of all of these planes and how they've been used over the years goes a long way towards making them feel more real. All the same, if the books don't jive with the confirmed-for-canon information and the books themselves say they aren't even part of the official Macross setting, then there's no room for debate... the Master File books are not canon. Even the Japanese fan-sites and wikipedia entries acknowledge that, and keep info from the Master File books and Master File-exclusive variants separate from official Macross setting variants and information. Yes, we may think the books are awesomesauce (I sure as hell do), but we shouldn't confuse matters by trying to force the material in those books into the official setting where its own authors say it doesn't belong.

Just because Kawamori-sensei agreed to let them put his name on it in the non-specific capacity of "supervisor" doesn't mean the book's contents are canon either. Almost as a rule, SF series tech manuals aren't. Just look at the Star Trek: the Next Generation tech manual... written by Mike Okuda and Rick Sternbach, and it's absolutely not canon.

(Yes, late post was late)

I'll jump into the VT-1/VE-1 thing in just a bit... I loaned my copy of Space Wing to a friend, and he hasn't returned it yet, so I'll go have a look at sketchley's translation of that section.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[sketchley]

Fairly close to what's happening in the USAF. There aren't, nor will be two-seat versions of the F-22 and F-35. Instead, they'll train some in F-16s (and of course the T-6, T-38, etc), but the conversion work will be done in the sims if I remember correctly.

That's for shame. I remember picking up a Popular Mechanics issue around 2000 that had a stretch bomber version of the F-22. Not sure if it was a two-seater or not (might have been, as two-seats brings it to mind).

Anyhow, wish that the C in the VT-1C stood for something cooler than "Customer" (like civilian...)

Late post is ignored.

[sketchley]

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2668.msg41587#msg41587

Posted what I've got done on the Sleipner Project and the VF-1X. Hopefully be able to finish the last section tomorrow, and start work on the VF-1P.

The stuff on the VF-4 wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. Instead of saying the VF-4 doesn't transform (like I think the first VFMF:VF-1 book says), this one states basically that even though the VF-4 has a transformation mechanism, it doesn't work.

[sketchley]

Finished the VF-1P Freya Valkyrie description.

Shades of the VF-19P???

Anyhow, question for y'all: what does Bu. Number (or Bu.No.) mean? My google-foo isn't turning up anything close to describing what it is. Just giving the impression that it's a fighter's serial number. >.<

[Talos]

Anyhow, question for y'all: what does Bu. Number (or Bu.No.) mean? My google-foo isn't turning up anything close to describing what it is. Just giving the impression that it's a fighter's serial number. >.<

It means Bureau Number and is the Navy equivalent to serial numbers. They were called that because they were assigned to the plane from the US Navy Bureau of Aeronautics.

[sketchley]

Thanks

EDIT: due to that, google-foo resulted in this piece of clarifying awesomeness: http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_serials/navyserials.html

Edited September 12, 2011 by sketchley

[Talos]

Thanks

EDIT: due to that, google-foo resulted in this piece of clarifying awesomeness: http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_serials/navyserials.html

Glad I could help.

Yeah, that's a good site. I've used it as a source trying to track down the BuNos of a few specific aircraft before.

[sketchley]

Completed the AMM-1 series (this feels like one of the more "fan" sections of the book. Me thinks they could've just left it like in other publications: "AMM-1 series is radar and TV guided, but some models are only radar or only TV guided.) I also don't remember the original AMM-1 being limited to atmospheric use only...)

The anti-ship "missiles" makes a bit more sense, in respect to stealthy attacks in space... but it's still a bit of a stretch.

Must... find... more... time to finish the GU-11D. Me likes the exchangeable magazine. But... there's no indication that the VF-1X/P FAST packs carry additional ones. So... if magazine means faster turnaround time in the hanger but less bullets per magazine... kinda sucky.

[sketchley]

Finished the stuff on the missiles and the GU-11D.

Though the stuff on tactics makes sense, the reason for the branching of the AMM-1 series into multiple types is baffling to me. Wouldn't it make more sense to continue making one missile for all purposes? It could be argued that there weren't enough resources at the time to do that, but then it begs the question: where did the resources for all the alternative guidance types come from?

The gun pod changes makes a little bit more sense to me (any gun pod with a bayonet is awesome in my book). But it still doesn't answer where spare clips are stored...

[Talos]

Though the stuff on tactics makes sense, the reason for the branching of the AMM-1 series into multiple types is baffling to me. Wouldn't it make more sense to continue making one missile for all purposes? It could be argued that there weren't enough resources at the time to do that, but then it begs the question: where did the resources for all the alternative guidance types come from?

It's probably a question of capability, I would argue. Would you rather have a pretty good dual-type seeker doing IIR and SARH modes, or two separate ones that are really good at each? There's only so much room in the seeker head of the missile to pack stuff in. The warheads are a pretty varied set, so it's difficult to meld in the best aspects of all of them together.

We might even argue that the AAM-1X is that ultimate balance of seeker head and warhead condensed into one general purpose type.

A bayonet on the GU-11D? Interesting. Very interesting. As for the magazines, if I was doing it I would have them in the leg-parts of the FAST packs.

[sketchley]

I dunno... it just seems like they wanted to fill a page in the book with missiles and were pulling things out of their a$$. E.g.: the description contains mention of non-reaction warhead missiles, but there are none on the page. Instead we get... kinetic penetraters. Remind me how those work in the absence of gravity? [rhetorical question]

GU-11D: engine nacelle FAST pack magazine holder makes a lot of sense (like the VF-0). But alas, their newly created VF-1X/P specific FAST packs don't have them.

[Talos]

I dunno... it just seems like they wanted to fill a page in the book with missiles and were pulling things out of their a$$. E.g.: the description contains mention of non-reaction warhead missiles, but there are none on the page. Instead we get... kinetic penetraters. Remind me how those work in the absence of gravity? [rhetorical question]

GU-11D: engine nacelle FAST pack magazine holder makes a lot of sense (like the VF-0). But alas, their newly created VF-1X/P specific FAST packs don't have them.

Kinetic penetrators work quite well in zero-g. Remember, a chip of paint at orbital velocity can tear through a spaceship like a hot knife through butter. Imagine what a boosted heavy-weight weapon would do

[sketchley]

I understand if the vectors are in opposite directions, but if the vector is similar and the velocity is the same - wouldn't the VF have to accelerate faster or manuever to a different approach vector? Either way the use of thrusters would be a visual/thermal signature that could be detected thereby reducing or eliminating the stealthiness inherent in using kinetic penetrators?

[Talos]

I understand if the vectors are in opposite directions, but if the vector is similar and the velocity is the same - wouldn't the VF have to accelerate faster or manuever to a different approach vector? Either way the use of thrusters would be a visual/thermal signature that could be detected thereby reducing or eliminating the stealthiness inherent in using kinetic penetrators?

Nah, let's say the target is a Zentradi destroyer. You fly out ahead of it at long range, out of it's sensor range, turn towards it, and fire two of them. They light up for a moment to build acceleration, then coast the rest of the way in totally silent, gutting the destroyer without a problem.

Zero friction means zero kinetic energy loss before impact.

[sketchley]

Nah, let's say the target is a Zentradi destroyer. You fly out ahead of it at long range, out of it's sensor range, turn towards it, and fire two of them. They light up for a moment to build acceleration, then coast the rest of the way in totally silent, gutting the destroyer without a problem.

Zero friction means zero kinetic energy loss before impact.

Zero friction is meaningless as in both our arguements, initial velocity equals terminal velocity equals impact velocity.

You've forgotten that these kinetic penetrators don't have a propulsion unit, and only some of them are equipped with manoeuvring verniers. Even in a situation where a VF could release a kinetic penetrator beyond a Zentraadi vessel sensor detection range, and the target vessel doesn't accelerate to a high enough velocity or perform radical enough vector changes to take it out of the kinetic penetrator's interception cone, there's still the visual/thermal emissions of the VF prior to releasing the kinetic penetrator (flying out ahead, turning around, and accelerating to release speed) that remain detectable to alert (visual) sensor operators.

Anyhow, I think we both have valid points, and my main complaint isn't the kinetic penetrators and other "space bombs" per se, it's the history of the books' writers to pull unrealistic armaments crap out of their collective a$$es. The worst offender is the self-propelled mass-driver launcher pod for the VF-19. My gut instinct when I saw the cover of TIAtS:M+ (it's first appearance) was that it was a missile launcher akin to the UUM-7. Macross the Ride has confirmed my gut instinct that it is a missile launcher, not an anime-magic overloaded extremely bloated mass that should rightly break a VF's wing off when loaded in a low-G space hanger.

Ever since then, I've been extremely picky about these books "reinterpretations" and "additions".