Fan reviews of the ADV Films dub

[Jeff J]

Hi guys, I looked semi-thoroughly through the boards for a review, but didn't see it. I own the AnimEigo boxed set so I felt I had no reason to purchase this. I did rent all the discs from NetFlix, but almost exclusively to see whatever extras they may be.

Anyway, I'm mostly interested in knowing how the biggest Macross fans felt about the dub. I get the impression few like that they insisted upon pronouncing "Macross" to rhyme with "LaCrosse" or "across." Neither did I. I didn't find the voice acting to be particularly bad, but overall, it felt out of place. The only things that seemed right when I watched a few episodes was whenever Mari Iijima would say "Hikaru," which would momentarily right the ship for maybe a minute until English voices seemed wrong again. I didn't get very far with the dub, but I guess part of me looks at the dub overall and thinks it's probably a good way to expand the fanbase, and with any luck it could make it to some national cable station in lieu of you know what.

So how did other Macross fans feel? My only stipulation for your answer is if you hate ALL English-dubbed anime, add that detail to your post. Thanks.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Jeff J

[Seto Kaiba]

So how did other Macross fans feel? My only stipulation for your answer is if you hate ALL English-dubbed anime, add that detail to your post. Thanks.

In keeping with your request, I will say that while I generally feel that subtitles are a better way to watch... I do not hate all dubbed anime, I respect the necessity of it in making shows accessible to a much wider audience.

That said, I still felt that the ADV Films dub of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross show was one of the worst dub jobs I've ever seen. It's that kind of all-bad all-the-time that gets rather worrying after you see a few episodes. The bad casting decisions, lousy script, mispronunciations, and stilted performances leave the whole thing feeling almost like they were trying to do a bad job. I'm not gonna say any more about it now, because I prefer to pretend those discs don't have an English audio track.

[Vepariga]

its bad...real bad. I could only tolerate half an episode.

[anime52k8]

I have no problem with dubs in general; but the ADV dub of SDF:M was pure, unadulterated pain.

Edited October 25, 2010 by anime52k8

[Dynaman]

The dub on that was pretty bad. Misa's VA being the worst, a pity too since the VA had a nice voice - but she did not use her own voice for Misa and it just sounded terrible, kind of like scratching chalk on a chalkboard...

The way they pronounce Hikaru is jarring as well, can't these productions play the original pronounciations for the English VA cast so they can pronounce it right?

[azrael]

If you wanna try it, it's on Hulu.

[TheLoneWolf]

So how did other Macross fans feel? My only stipulation for your answer is if you hate ALL English-dubbed anime, add that detail to your post. Thanks.

I don't hate all English dubs. In fact, there are some that I think are excellent, such as Manga's Macross Plus and Viz's Fatal Fury: The Motion Picture dubs. But I thought ADV's SDF Macross dub was pretty awful. My opinion is limited to the first two episodes because that's all that I could stomache.

First off is the obvious: Macross. I find it inexcusable to mispronounce the title of the show when Robotech, Macross II and Macross Plus have been correctly pronouncing it in English for the past 20 years. Second, Roy Focker's voice actor. It sounded like I was hearing Randy "Macho Man" Savage doing his best California surfer-dude impression. The whole time I was expecting him to yell out "Toes on the nose, bro!" And while I thought it was a great gesture on ADV's part to bring back Mari Iijima as Lynn Minmay, unfortunately Mari's voice (through no fault of her own) no longer sounds like that of an immature 15 year old girl.

[HannouHeiki]

Maybe it's nostalgia, but I prefer Robotech over ADV's version of Macross. I would be happy if the music track could be ported over to the Robotech version, then it would be a great pseudo "Macross" dub.

Anyway, nothing beats subbed, regardless.

I need my "Hannou Heiki Standby OK!" etc.

[anime52k8]

The Robotech voice acting WAS better than the ADV dub. At least in robotech the voice actors could pronounce things correctly, and weren't unbelievably shrill and grating.

ADV dubs in General suck. That Mother F**king Megazone 23 dub...

[BeyondTheGrave]

I can't get past episode 2. Its that painful

ADV dubs in General suck.

Actually funimation dubs might just be worse.

Edited November 7, 2010 by BeyondTheGrave

[anime52k8]

I can't get past episode 2. Its that painful

Actually funimation dubs might just be worse.

and stepping in horse sh*t might be worse than stepping in dog Sh*t. they both still suck.

[Jeff J]

and stepping in horse sh*t might be worse than stepping in dog Sh*t. they both still suck.

I would agree that the Robotech acting was no worse than ADV's, and maybe even better. At least ADV's not Macross II bad. I was bored the other day so I queued it on my NetFlix. It's not a good movie in any language, but I feel it becomes 3x more watchable if you stick with the original audio track.

[VF-18S Hornet]

The Aussies did it better (Clash of the Bioniods)if you like your Macross Characters with a British accent.

[Renato]

I never understood why, except for Mari, they all had to be shouting at the top of their lungs (seriously, they sound like they reach the limit of their souls), all of the time.

[Mr March]

I remember a few years back someone here posted the first episode of the "new" ADV dub either just before it was released or just after. It wasn't the worst anime dub I'd heard, but damned if it didn't try it's hardest to be.

As far as anime dubbing in general, I will say that the lack of improvement over the past few decades is both rather telling and rather alarming. In the case of SDF Macross, here we have a "new" ADV dub which by most measurements is pretty much at the same quality level as the original Robotech dubbing. Yet one production was done over 20 years before another. It appears anime dubbing is mostly a sea of terrible productions puntuated by a rare good quality dub that mostly have "crossover" appeal to thank for the cast putting in good work (Macross Plus, Cowboy Bebop, etc). Contrast anime dubbing in the last two decades to something like, say, video game dubbing over that same period (yes, BEFORE the huge budgets and the Hollywood talent). The difference is quite astonishing, showing video game dubbing as markedly improving as time goes on while anime dubbing is either sitting still or it atrophies.

As a result, I don't have much hope for anime dubbing ever.

[anime52k8]

Contrast anime dubbing in the last two decades to something like, say, video game dubbing over that same period (yes, BEFORE the huge budgets and the Hollywood talent). The difference is quite astonishing, showing video game dubbing as markedly improving as time goes on while anime dubbing is either sitting still or it atrophies.

As a result, I don't have much hope for anime dubbing ever.

the thing is, the rate and level to which Voice acting in Video Games has improved is directly proportional to growth of the video game market as a whole. Similarly, In this 20 year period with little improvement in dub quality, there's been little growth in the market for dubbed anime. The volume of sales aren't there to justify spending the money on good writers, directors and Voice talent.

[nexxstrait]

I remember a few years back someone here posted the first episode of the "new" ADV dub either just before it was released or just after. It wasn't the worst anime dub I'd heard, but damned if it didn't try it's hardest to be.

[...]

As a result, I don't have much hope for anime dubbing ever.

In North America and english-speaking countries like UK, Canada and Australia this is due mainly to a lack of "dubbing culture". As far as I know, in general movies from abroad are presented with subtitles (which is perfectly fine), so dubbing is really something "new" for those countries. That means that, not having a 50+ years of practice in the field like, say, Italy*, there is still much to do before dubbing in America comes out with things that don't make you cry in shame.

* top notch actors and professional dubbers are generally involved in anime dubbing.

[Jasonc]

I'm in the same boat as most here. The ADV dub was one of the worst things to ever come out. Misa sounded like a cracked out teen, Roy like a gay trucker, Hikaru like Vic Mignona (what else do you expect), and I had a hard time understanding Minmay. I bought the set at a super discount, and got it only to preserve my copies of my Animeigo DVDs. I don't even bother with the english version of it. And, I'm one who likes a good dub. They should've kept the Robotech VAs. They did a great job on it.

[Ginrai]

Yes, the ADV Macross dub is not so great, but I still think Mari Iijima is the worst part of it, unfortunately. Her accent is so thick, despite living in the states for years and years, that it is terribly distracting.

Of course, it could be worse, it could be the Macross II dub, which is one of the worst dubs to ever exist. Every... one likestotalkreal... fast... and then... havelotsofawkwardlyplaced... pauses.

That dub goes back to US Renditions though, so what do you expect?

[Mr March]

the thing is, the rate and level to which Voice acting in Video Games has improved is directly proportional to growth of the video game market as a whole. Similarly, In this 20 year period with little improvement in dub quality, there's been little growth in the market for dubbed anime. The volume of sales aren't there to justify spending the money on good writers, directors and Voice talent.

Personally, I think the poor state of anime dubs has far more to do with the fans and the industry itself than an excuse like budget. Whenever the subject of dubs come up, it seems that by far the majority of anime fans support them. What's worse, it seems most dub fans ardently defend dub quality if for no better reason than to oppose the "elitist snob minority" favoring subtitles only. On the other side of the product, the English anime distribution companies seem unable to take constructive criticism in any way, shape or form. Industry hides under a comfortable cover of fandom approval, a fandom that accepts whatever afterthought dubbing effort is tossed at them. Any detractors are dismissed as the ever-easy-to-marginalize "vocal minority". The result...a state of dubbing mediocrity supported by the consumer majority that in turn creates absolutely ZERO incentive for anime distributors to improve the status quo. And as the comparison of the original Robotech dub to the new ADV shows, dubbing has persisted in a healthy state of abysmal quality for over 20 years

In North America and english-speaking countries like UK, Canada and Australia this is due mainly to a lack of "dubbing culture". As far as I know, in general movies from abroad are presented with subtitles (which is perfectly fine), so dubbing is really something "new" for those countries. That means that, not having a 50+ years of practice in the field like, say, Italy*, there is still much to do before dubbing in America comes out with things that don't make you cry in shame.

* top notch actors and professional dubbers are generally involved in anime dubbing.

There is no dub culture developing in North America at all, no improvement and no incentive to realize either. So what good will another decade do? The state of English anime dubbing is a tragically hilarious vicious circle that leads back to a rather anticlimactic conclusion...anime should just be subtitled and not dubbed. If what we get are less than a handful of merely good but unspectacular dubs for all the thousands made, why bother? But of course, that's the point. Anime companies DON'T bother themselves producing good dubs. Dubbing is no bother at all and seen as just a throwaway feature to perhaps grab a few more sales from the less-than-discriminating English-exclusive consumer. So we get what we deserve

Edited November 11, 2010 by Mr March

[Jasonc]

I think most of the consumers here in the U.S. are used to dubs. If dubs were to disappear tomorrow, anime DVDs would probably disappear here as well, or at least be very scarce. The dubs help keep people buying the DVDs more than just being an added feature. Whether the dubs are good or not is strictly opinion, although on some dubs, the general opinions agree on the poor job, i.e. ADV Macross. I don't have a problem with dubs, and I'm not one who needs to get closer to my anime by watching it all in Japanese. If it's good enough dubbed, that's how I'll watch it. I don't think dubs, in general, are bad. I think the larger companies like ADV and Funimation kinda got into the "let's use this actor again for this role" and kinda cookie cutter them, but for the most part, I don't watch a lot of disaster dubs, and I do watch a lot of anime.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I believe there's two whole threads at least of MWers watching the dub on Hulu and giving their critiques. You may wish to search for them, as they're fairly recent. Myself thinking that while I've heard much worse, it's definitely not great, with some of the casting better in Robotech. Monica Rial in particular I thought outright murdered Misa.

Doesn't help that they missed with the sound effects either.

As for your writeup, March, I agree with a lot of it. What I find however to be the kicker among fans of both dubs and subs is a general disagreement over what makes a "good dub". I'm in the camp of fidelity to the source material, in terms of line accuracy, casting and so on. So something like "Ghost Stories (apparently universally well received despite being more Mecek-ien than Mecek ever was)" would never be considered "good" by me no matter how it makes "such an awful show funny". They only exception I've had on that one is Shinesman. A lot of dub fans seem to care more about the general casting than anything else, and as long as they "sound right" they're happy. There's even fandoms around actors. Ever see people go nuts around Vic Mignona no matter how miscast he may or may not be? I like some dub actors myself, like Steve Blum, but there are times when he just sticks out too much.

Then there's the defence that dubs are unanimously considered better now than back in the 80s or 90s. Oddly, I've found myself often liking the older dubs sound wise over the newer. The only thing "improved" is that they tend to be more accurate now, unless it's from Funimation (which it usually is) or the likes of ADV's Stephen Foster.

Dubs could be a lot worse than they are, just watch old live action dubs. Some DO try, but I agree that standards tend to be low, and depending on who's doing it, there are going to be different priorities (Richard Epcar, whom I've always like as Batou in GitS, firmly believes dubbers have a right to try and "improve" the product when it comes to translation and casting for example and most dub reviewers seem to accept this depending on the show "it's a bad show anyway, let them try to salvage it ").

Edited November 15, 2010 by Mercurial Morpheus

[Mercurial Morpheus]

The Aussies did it better (Clash of the Bioniods)if you like your Macross Characters with a British accent.

Wrong credit. Clash is based off a Hong Kong dub of DYRL done for English instruction classes in Japan, a popular thing to do. So thank the British. She's still the only main Minmay I haven't met yet.

Here are the two threads.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=32993

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=32396

There should also be a running commentary during the release of the discs, if memory serves.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Mercurial Morpheus

[mrhillz]

You know, which is worse- the ADV dub or the B-movie dubbing team that did Clash of the Bionoids?

[anime52k8]

You know, which is worse- the ADV dub or the B-movie dubbing team that did Clash of the Bionoids?

ADV dub

[Mercurial Morpheus]

ADV as they supposedly tried AND it was intended to an English speaking audience yet still failed. Reading through those old threads reminded me of a lot of odd dialog choices (Like Claudia referring to Minmay as "That little bitch").

[YajimaTakashi]

Ok. I know I am going against the norm here, but I found the dub MORE tolerable than the Robotech dub. It was not the best nor was it as strange as the Clash of the Bionoids dub. However, the main reason I liked it was to hear Mari reprise the role of Lynn Minmay in English; I had always thought that would be how she sounded even in English. The casting was hit and miss to me. I also liked Luci Christian and Chris Patton as Max and Millia since I heard them before as Sosuke Sagara and Kaname Chidori. and Monica Rial sounded like she was trying to be more like Lisa Hayes rather than giving Misa her own take. Vic as Hikaru, was not the best choice in my opinion; Roy it sounded like Brett Weaver was trying to be Akira Kamiya playing Roy Focker in a different language. I think a lot of people are harsh towards this dub is because they came into it with certain expectations, I enjoyed it for what it was: a chance to see Macross in English without having to hear Rick Hunter's excessive thought dialogue or Lynn Minmei's singing.

[Marzan]

My experience with (english) dubs is that the younger the character, the worse the voice that it gets. And since most of the characters in anime are teenagers, well...let's just say that the lack of trained actors really show.

[Valkyrie Driver]

I didn't think it was terrible, and I actually prefer to have the option of watching in English. I actually prefer dubs because the subbing can be as bad as some dubs in translation. As my only intro to SDF Macross, I have nothing else to compare it to. Ok it wasn't great, but still, It's all I have.

[Keith]

I didn't think it was terrible, and I actually prefer to have the option of watching in English. I actually prefer dubs because the subbing can be as bad as some dubs in translation. As my only intro to SDF Macross, I have nothing else to compare it to. Ok it wasn't great, but still, It's all I have.

Um, no. By default subbing is never "ever" as bad as a dub translation, since the original audio is there regardless of what's in the subs.

[Marzan]

Um, no. By default subbing is never "ever" as bad as a dub translation, since the original audio is there regardless of what's in the subs.

Plus the subbers can translate "as is" instead of having to adequate their translation to the mouth movements of the characters. Granted in animation it's not as hard as in live action, but is still represents a challenge.

[Dynaman]

Um, no. By default subbing is never "ever" as bad as a dub translation, since the original audio is there regardless of what's in the subs.

Not always, sometimes a sub has to omit nuance in order make the subs readable in the same time that a character can say things. When there are 2 streams of dialog going at once it gets even more problematic.

It is more rare then bad dubs but it does happen. (to see it in action, watch the subtitles on a movie in english, here is a made up example).

Dialog - "What do you think you are doing here brother!?"

Sub - "Why are you here?"

Edited November 27, 2010 by Dynaman

[Valkyrie Driver]

Most of the subbed anime that's out there is pretty good, I've come across some that I could have done better with a japanese-english dictionary. No titles come to mind as I tried very hard to forget them, but it happens, sometimes you can get badly translated subs. Also there are things such as idioms and colloquialisms that don't cross the culture boundary, so sometimes meaning gets lost in translation. That's all I was getting with the statement I made. I have had pretty good luck with Macross ( I think, I don't speak but minimal japanese, and even then it's been two years so I've lost a bit.) Also Dubs work well for me because I generally only have time to watch the shows when I'm eating, and eating and reading is hard to do for me, especially when I'm chowing down so as not to be late...

[Robe robot]

Not always, sometimes a sub has to omit nuance in order make the subs readable in the same time that a character can say things. When there are 2 streams of dialog going at once it gets even more problematic.

It is more rare then bad dubs but it does happen. (to see it in action, watch the subtitles on a movie in english, here is a made up example).

Dialog - "What do you think you are doing here brother!?"

Sub - "Why are you here?"

It is not a requirement to make subs readable in the time it takes to say things. It can be how people choose to do things, sure. But personally I love the things like translator's notes and will pause what I am watching to read them and enjoy the fact that I've been allowed the opportunity to learn something about another culture in a context that will make me remember it.