if it is YAMATO who gets the macross frontier toy license

[ken]

i konw the vf 25 DX toy is a failure for some macross fans, but the success of toy is not only about the design engeneering, but also about the marketing and strategy, so in my opion the vf DX toy is a success anyway.

if it is YAMATO who makes the vf 25 toy, will vf 25 become more (or less) popular?

by the way, which style do you think is more suitable for vf 25? toylish or modelish?

[ff95gj]

What was bandai's strategy on the VF-25? Rush it out of the door and save r&d, knowing that it would sell anyway given the MF hype back then?

[eugimon]

considering the dx vf-25 is plagued with numerous yamato-like issues on top of a host of poor design issues with a side of websclusive-crapola for good measure... I can say that if yamato had done the vf-25 it certainly would have been more popular with ME.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

What was bandai's strategy on the VF-25? Rush it out of the door and save r&d, knowing that it would sell anyway given the MF hype back then?

I think their strategy was to release something ASAP and have most of the major players released(and milk molds) before movie 1's premiere. Then, knowing that they have the license that no one else can have a for a long while, revise/redesign/redo the DX VF-25, and release it a little before, or coinciding with movie 2. Then, knowing fans weren't satisfied with the VF100's line, bide their time with a VF HI METAL VF-25, and release it either after movie 2, or for the 30th anniversary of Macross in 2012. Either way, I think they are prioritizing around significant mile-stones and media tie ins.

Also, the OP asked if a Yamato VF-25 would make the VF-25 any more popular. I don't think it would. I just think that people won't stop clamoring for a great VF-25 toy until someone gets it right.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

[BlueMax]

Yamato will probably make a better toy (like the VF-27), if they have the chance any given time.

Popularity wise, it is a a different matter altogether. Assuming that Yamato instead of bandai was then one who had the rights to make the VF-25s, and had substituted Bandai in releaseing the VF-25s in exactly the same dates that Bandai had released them, etc (I.e all things being equal other than the manufacturer and Yamato's commitment to anime accurateness), I think they would just as popular, if not more so.

However, assuming that yamato secures the rights say, 4 years later, it proobably not. They would have lost the 1st mover advantage and without any supporting media (Toy Advertisements disguised as TV series or movies), it is kind of hard to sustain interest, and even harder to generate new interest.

[EXO]

Bandai is already hiring yamato's toy designers. It's the popularity of Macross in japan's market that'll decide what they'll get to.

[shuji]

yamato and bandai for me equal..yamato still have problem like others valks design..difficult to blame yamato and bandai..for macross fan I'll support both yamato n bandai for design any valks for macross series.

[Nicaragua]

It wouldnt matter to me who made it. I think the VF-25 is a bit bland and boring compared to the VF-11's, 17's,19's,22's and 27.

[EXO]

It wouldnt matter to me who made it. I think the VF-25 is a bit bland and boring compared to the VF-11's, 17's,19's,22's and 27.

Not when it's the armored messiah.

I do think that Yamato pushed the envelope of macross toy design, demanding for more lineart accuracy and playability at the same time. It doesn't always work out but as far as toys are concerned, I think Bandai has to play keep up with them. But looking at their last efforts with the hi metal, the VF27 and especially the VB-6 Monster. I think they've given Yamato a run for their money. If they, for some reason, managed to run Yamato put of the macros business, I think their interest in the franchise would wane and it'll be back to the dark ages for us fans.

[ff95gj]

Not when it's the armored messiah.

I do think that Yamato pushed the envelope of macross toy design, demanding for more lineart accuracy and playability at the same time. It doesn't always work out but as far as toys are concerned, I think Bandai has to play keep up with them. But looking at their last efforts with the hi metal, the VF27 and especially the VB-6 Monster. I think they've given Yamato a run for their money. If they, for some reason, managed to run Yamato put of the macros business, I think their interest in the franchise would wane and it'll be back to the dark ages for us fans.

Personally... I like the VB-6, but I am not too thrilled with the VF-27.

Hi-Metal... It's still not in par with the Y-offerings in the script. And it gets floppy after a few transformation.

But I agree that the existence of Yamato has an impact on Bandai. Now at least they can reverse-engineering to save R&D!

I have yet to see a Bandai valk which Yamato hasn't done (a similar model) before.

[jenius]

I have yet to see a Bandai valk which Yamato hasn't done (a similar model) before.

We're in a thread discussing a series of valks that only Bandai can make... how is it you haven't seen any of these valks yet?

[Renato]

If they, for some reason, managed to run Yamato put of the macros business, I think their interest in the franchise would wane and it'll be back to the dark ages for us fans.

I think we're starting to see the beginning of that situation right now.

We're in a thread discussing a series of valks that only Bandai can make... how is it you haven't seen any of these valks yet?

Come on, man, we discussed this recently in another thread. You know exactly what he means.

[ff95gj]

We're in a thread discussing a series of valks that only Bandai can make... how is it you haven't seen any of these valks yet?

- I should rephrase "I have yet to see a Bandai valk which Yamato hasn't done (a similar model) before." into "I have yet to see a Bandai valk done right which Yamato hasn't done (a similar model) before." This is towards the VF-25. And let's forget the nostalgic models from last century.

- I regard VF-19 to be similar to YF-19 in transformation.

[azrael]

Actually, Bandai has an exclusive deal, which means only they can put out merchandise...for now. After the exclusive deal ends, it would be a free-for-all.

I think we're starting to see the beginning of that situation right now.

Too true. After the 2nd movie comes, then we'll be back in the dark ages. Occasional model or toy re-release, possible game release.

[UN Spacy]

The silent treatment from Bandai or Yamato? I doubt it'll be both.

There's money to be made.

[BlueMax]

Too true. After the 2nd movie comes, then we'll be back in the dark ages. Occasional model or toy re-release, possible game release.

Might not. 2012 will be the 30th Anniversary of Macross. After that.....

[ff95gj]

Might not. 2012 will be the 30th Anniversary of Macross. After that.....

I know Kawamori said he didn't want to re-visit the original characters...

But doesn't 2012 give you FLASHBACKS or something?

[macrossnake]

I know Kawamori said he didn't want to re-visit the original characters...

But doesn't 2012 give you FLASHBACKS or something?

It is the time they should release 1/60 VF4 then.

[jenius]

- I should rephrase "I have yet to see a Bandai valk which Yamato hasn't done (a similar model) before." into "I have yet to see a Bandai valk done right which Yamato hasn't done (a similar model) before." This is towards the VF-25. And let's forget the nostalgic models from last century.

- I regard VF-19 to be similar to YF-19 in transformation.

I kinda figured that's where you were going but wanted to make sure I understood by rephrasing. Your argument is very convenient because you also dismiss the VF-27, a toy nearly universally said to have been done right, as not seeming done right to you. This argument quickly gets silly from there as all these toys are based on the same designs sometimes with input from the mechanical designer himself. If you don't see enough variety in Bandai's 1/100 scale VF-1 toy which is substantially different from Yamato's V2 toy it's probably because you associate Bandai with the chunky monkey and are thus not giving them the credit they deserve. Either way, Bandai's Quarter, VF-27, Konig, Hi-Metal VF-19s, and Hi-Metal VF-1 toys are all really solid efforts. The VF-25 was not so hot but c'mon, who's going to argue that Yamato hasn't put out a few stinkers (V1 VF-1, VF-0 with detachable arms, V2 VF-1 with detachable arms, Garland with detachable arms, Konig, etc.). If Yamato gets the license 5 years from now I would expect they would improve upon all of Bandai's releases... just as I would expect Bandai would improve on all of Yamato's toys if they got the license 5 years from now. Sadly, I don't see either of those things happening.

[ff95gj]

If you don't see enough variety in Bandai's 1/100 scale VF-1 toy which is substantially different from Yamato's V2 toy it's probably because you associate Bandai with the chunky monkey and are thus not giving them the credit they deserve.

I really don't see much difference between the Hi-metal series and the Yamato VF-1. But it's a lie if I simply associate Bandai with the chunky monkeys.

I've got Quarter, Monster, Robot Spirit, Hi-Metals, and those are not chunky. However, for the VB-6 and Hi-Metal, Bandai has a sample to reverse-engineer from. My point is: the Bandai version quality is better guaranteed if there is an existing model out there. Implication: Bandai doesn't want to input much for R&D.

And I didn't say Yamato has no faults. Just that objectively, given their resources, they are already doing a good job. Unlike Bandai, being the giant in the industry, having the incredible transformation in their model kits, with experiences in dozens of transformation toys, delivered us the VF-25 DX. Did I have ground to accuse Bandai for having no hearts?

- I don't know I can't complain about a toy here (the VF-27) because (almost) everyone else loves it.

- Am I a Bandai hater? I pay a lot for Bandai SIC, SHF, SoC, Robot Spirit in the past year, and basically I love all of them. Bandai Macross? Only a few of them.

[jenius]

I wasn't implying you have no right to complain about the VF-27. I was just saying that it automatically makes your argument weak when you say, "Bandai needs a pre-existing Yamato toy to make a good toy." then someone says "The VF-27 is a great toy." and you say "Well I don't count that one." It's totally your right to not think highly of it but I'm sure you could see where the argument already seems a little silly.

The whole argument in of itself is silly though... obviously any toy in its third, fourth, or even fifth rendition is going to be better than previous versions. Just like Yamato's YF-19 was a big improvement over Bandai's 1/65 VF-19 and Yamato's next VF-19 will almost certainly be better than their previous YF-19 toys. Obviously things will improve as different companies try different things... it's not really about being lazy or cheap it's about having more data to pull from.

What I would think the original question is "Would Yamato's first effort at a VF-25 toy, had Bandai never made a VF-25 toy, be better than what Bandai's effort ultimately was?" I have my doubts. As much as MW seems luke warm to cold on the DX 25 it was actually a rousing success for Bandai. It sold really well and even sold at mark-ups which isn't something I've seen from Yamato in a long time. You can probably credit this to Bandai being able to get the word out better than Yamato and having a name that carries a bit more weight. Bandai's success with the VF-25 is probably what allowed the various lines to exist and more DX toys to be made. Had Yamato originally had the license we probably would have had to wait longer for a VF-25 toy that may very well have been more model-like and thus more praised here on MW but it may have only sold at a fraction of the DX and may have been the only Frontier toy we got (with possibly hints that a VF-27 might come out some day). It may also have cost $200 instead of the $110 the DX 25 went for. Remember, Yamato seems to be really hurting without trying to get new licenses so after purchasing rights to MF and developing the VF-25 they'd have to sit back and recoup some cash before their next project whereas Bandai has been able to keep slinging.

[eugimon]

I don't think you can make that claim. Bandai helped to produce Frontier so they wouldn't need to wait on licenses and what not. They would have been able to start work producing the 25 when the anime was still in production. Yamato has had no such luxury.

As for bandai being able to muscle in morer products... I dunno about that either. Their 1/100 line was a failure, their vajra is a no show, the 1/48 model is a no show and now there's talk of even the hi-metal line coming to a premature close.

Meanwhile, Yamato has been able to keep producing toys from shows that aren't on the air, don't have movies in the theaters and don't have a concert series to keep the hype going.

While the bandai brand may have brought in some extra sales from the die hard Yamato-haters in from the cold, I think it's far more likely to say that the dx 25 did well because of the huge success of the show rather than anything else.

[Vifam7]

What I would think the original question is "Would Yamato's first effort at a VF-25 toy, had Bandai never made a VF-25 toy, be better than what Bandai's effort ultimately was?" I have my doubts. As much as MW seems luke warm to cold on the DX 25 it was actually a rousing success for Bandai. It sold really well and even sold at mark-ups which isn't something I've seen from Yamato in a long time. You can probably credit this to Bandai being able to get the word out better than Yamato and having a name that carries a bit more weight. Bandai's success with the VF-25 is probably what allowed the various lines to exist and more DX toys to be made. Had Yamato originally had the license we probably would have had to wait longer for a VF-25 toy that may very well have been more model-like and thus more praised here on MW but it may have only sold at a fraction of the DX and may have been the only Frontier toy we got (with possibly hints that a VF-27 might come out some day). It may also have cost $200 instead of the $110 the DX 25 went for. Remember, Yamato seems to be really hurting without trying to get new licenses so after purchasing rights to MF and developing the VF-25 they'd have to sit back and recoup some cash before their next project whereas Bandai has been able to keep slinging.

Ofcourse the idea of Yamato creating the VF-25 first would also mean they had the money to sponsor the Frontier series anime and thus have the merchandising rights first. And if that was the case, then it wouldn't be the Yamato as we know it and something closer to Bandai. In other words, for this scenario, it'd have to be an alternate universe where Yamato isn't Yamato.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Vifam7

[jenius]

Meanwhile, Yamato has been able to keep producing toys from shows that aren't on the air, don't have movies in the theaters and don't have a concert series to keep the hype going.

What was Yamato's last non-repaint release? I'm drawing a blank. I want to say the VF-11B but that's probably wrong. This is an honest question, not me being snippy. Yes, I could look this up but it's probably not what I should be doing right now

When was the last time you saw a Yamato item selling at a modest mark-up online a week or two after release because they were already selling out everywhere?

We can definitely get more crazy hypothetical but it loses relevance the more extreme we get. Yamato could never afford to fund an anime but if we wanted to assume that they could afford to do so and thus could have rights locked up early in development and could release a toy at the same time (heck, maybe even earlier) than Bandai did would it have been a better toy? As Vifam pointed out, we're now squarely in a world where Yamato isn't Yamato any more and may be capable of a great many things. For my part, I'm sure they would have released a much more expensive, much less durable toy that would have received much more praise on MW because it likely would have been much more attractive and much more detailed... but given the economic reality of the time I think it would have sold much poorer than the DX toys did (and I suspect the shoulders would have broken off all the Alto releases).

[eugimon]

There were plenty of lucas and michael tpye 25's getting the sale treatment as well and don't forget that a lot of the markups were because so much of the 25 line was sold as websclusives. That a few alto types got marked up on the grey market really doesn't mean anything one way or another when you look at how the market treated the 25 line as a whole.

And please, the 25 has enough QC and design issues of its own, it really can't claim any sort of win in that department over anything yamato has put out this decade. And that argument really doesn't fall under what this thread is about.

I just don't see that there's some cadre of bandai loyalists who would have refused to buy a yamato 1/60 vf-25 just like I don't think it's believable that there's a bunch of bandai loyalists who rushed out and bought dx 25 just because it has "bandai" on the box.

[ff95gj]

It was an opinion more than an argument. How do I argue "I think a product is bad and you think it is good; I am right and you are wrong"?

Because you like the VF-27, and I can't express that I don't think Bandai has done a brand-new valk right?

Is a succeeding model always superior over the previous ones? I rate the Yamato 1/60 over the Hi-Metal for one thing (does it make this statement silly if you like the Hi-Metal better? ); and the Revy transformable VF is a failure (now this is a fact, not an opinion).

Can Bandai make it right the first time and do they have enough time? Sorry I can't help reminding myself of the model kit version of the VF-25. I understand there are limitations to make a toy easier to manufacture, but I cannot imagine we need to sacrifice THAT much to make a toy. Just look at the Gundam toys and model kits.

I know I sound like a Yamato freak; but I believe the DX VF-25 would not ever get out of the door if Yamato makes it. Yamato cares, Bandai doesn't.

[shuji]

for my opinion...maybe Bandai just want to concerntrate in MF line..tharefore this licenced given to Bandai..for the business prospect i think have a group monitor this line that Bandai produce and if still have any complaint,issued n problem the licenced will be given to yamato(who knows)...but why yamato can produced konig for MF line...but now Bandai produced it..any can explaint...

Vf-25 is stil in demand out there..why i said this..last week i have made pre order from my seller for vf-25f alto custom for ova ver. and suddenly the next day my seller said sold out..all this vf25 already burst from japan buyer becoz this was limited...we can see alot of fan out there still buy this line becoz it was good valks.

Edited October 27, 2010 by shuji

[EXO]

I know I sound like a Yamato freak; but I believe the DX VF-25 would not ever get out of the door if Yamato makes it. Yamato cares, Bandai doesn't.

I see what you're saying and in a way I agree. But I do think that the 25 was more of a miscalculation on Bandai's part in which they quickly tried to recover. I don't know if you've seen the VB-6 Koenig but it's not a straight copy of Yamato's version (which was almost a straight copy of a resin kit). And as much as people might not be into it but I thought that the 1/100 VF is very cool and well done especially at that scale. I really can't see it done any better. It's a shame that Bandai released the VF-25 to a customer base that they were not familiar with. Yamato had close calls with the same thing, like the 1/100 VF-0. But by then even after the prototypes were done, they knew enough not to produce it. I think the fans can sense that difference in why each company is in the business of making valks. There's some amount of fandom and genuine interest within the Yamato top ranks that makes them crank out incredible versions of Macross mecha, while Bandai is trying to tap into a market that they clearly ignored for the last few years and maybe too late.

for my opinion...maybe Bandai just want to concerntrate in MF line..tharefore this licenced given to Bandai..for the business prospect i think have a group monitor this line that Bandai produce and if still have any complaint,issued n problem the licenced will be given to yamato(who knows)...but why yamato can produced konig for MF line...but now Bandai produced it..any can explaint...

Vf-25 is stil in demand out there..why i said this..last week i have made pre order from my seller for vf-25f alto custom for ova ver. and suddenly the next day my seller said sold out..all this vf25 already burst from japan buyer becoz this was limited...we can see alot of fan out there still buy this line becoz it was good valks.

I doubt that bandai is only interested in the MF line, but I think they leapt into the other lines too late as it is already saturated. Some people think that making the more obscure valks will be more successful for them but I think they stuck between a rock and a hard place. Obscure valks that barely have a fan base or the already over tapped lines that are the better sellers.

Actually, IMO, Bandai has a better chance with their license by going bigger. You won't sell as much VF-1s in 1/32 than you would at 1/48 but at the price... if they sell a quarter as much or even the same numbers as the 1/100, they'd make about the same.... so do it Bandai!!! 1/32 scaled VF-1s!!!

[jenius]

but why yamato can produced konig for MF line...but now Bandai produced it..any can explaint...

Yamato made the Konig as part of their deal with the VF-X video game license, it was before Macross Frontier. It's possible that the reason the DX Konig is not a 1/100 scale Hi-Metal toy is because of the fact there was an existing and fairly recent Yamato 1/100 Konig.

Because you like the VF-27, and I can't express that I don't think Bandai has done a brand-new valk right?

It's not about me vs. you. It's about you against nearly everyone else. The praise for the VF-27 stretches wide and far. It's almost as if you choose not to like it because it proves you wrong. You're still free to not like it and voice that opinion but it puts your whole argument in an awkward light as you are clearly in the minority and your argument is predicated on the majority opinion being wrong.

Is a succeeding model always superior over the previous ones? I rate the Yamato 1/60 over the Hi-Metal for one thing (does it make this statement silly if you like the Hi-Metal better? );

Not at all. The Yamato v2 is 1/60 scale and features all the accessories people would demand from a 1/60 scale toy. The Bandai toy is a 1/100 scale VF-1. Is there a 1/100 Yamato VF-1 toy that you prefer to the Hi-Metal? Also, there's room for exceptions in to the rule in my argument. There can certainly be budgetary considerations. A new Yamato toy aimed at $50 price point would likely be much worse than a $150 version of the toy just as the V2 MSRPs for much more than the Hi-Metal. I would say it's GENERALLY true that future generations of toys made from the same foundation are going to be better but there's obviously lots of variables.

There were plenty of lucas and michael tpye 25's getting the sale treatment as well and don't forget that a lot of the markups were because so much of the 25 line was sold as websclusives. That a few alto types got marked up on the grey market really doesn't mean anything one way or another when you look at how the market treated the 25 line as a whole.

For sure... there definitely were some sales on post Ozma/Alto VF-25 toys. The point remains that the initial releases sold like gangbusters. It's been a long time since I saw Yamato move any product that fast but you're right, Yamato sells products for very old shows and Bandai was selling one for a hot new property. I just think there's also something to be said for Bandai's price point and design choices (some of which did prove to be rather unsatisfactory for adult collectors) that contributed to the brisk sales.

I know I sound like a Yamato freak; but I believe the DX VF-25 would not ever get out of the door if Yamato makes it. Yamato cares, Bandai doesn't.

It's not that you sound like a Yamato freak. I think we agree that Yamato would have made a toy more for adult collectors... which is a great strategy for toys of old shows that haven't been on the air for years. The toy would have looked sexier, been truer to the line art, maybe had more gimmicks, probably had a few more stress marks and cracks after minor handling, and would have cost 50%-75% more than the Bandai. That toy would have sold fairly well by Yamato standards and, with some time, Yamato might have been able to give us a similar VF-27 that again, MW would have raved about (and it would have sold even less than Yamato's VF-27). The point is, while that may be a better outcome for MW it's hardly true of what was better for the world. Bandai's toy was a huge success which is a good thing for Macross. Yamato is running out of resources quick, they would have never been able to keep up with releasing waves of Yamato toys. I still haven't been able to think of a recent non-repaint Yamato offering... just a couple ludicrously expensive models because Yamato can't afford the risk of making those beasts into toys.

[eugimon]

I really can't believe you're still arguing that a yamato offering would have had more issues than the DX.

The DX has everything that yamato ever had wrong all rolled up into one oily package.

Stress marks? check

busted joints? check.

poor fit? check.

parts falling off? check.

accessories it wasn't designed for? check

And it managed to introduce flake off paint to that list as well.

Honestly,my armored ozma sat on a shelf for years doing absolutely nothing and several key joints are floppy as hell. How does that happen other than the plastic is such complete garbage it out gassed and somehow diminished in volume? And the back plate... the back plate is a swarm of stress marks and cracks.

[jenius]

Yes, the DX VF-25 toys do have issues for sure... ESPECIALLY the armored Ozma. The armored Ozma is kind of a calamity. Yamato's track record on very first releases though is ridiculously piss poor. They've had a few all stars but they've also had SEVERAL releases with full on limb breakage which exceeds anything Bandai has done wrong as far as the DX line is concerned. Sure, there were a couple people who did get a limb to come off a 25 toy but every instance was a case of a broken screw... not the toy breaking. Even when Yamato has revisited designs they've found new ways to make them fragile... that's just kinda special... and the price would again be far more than Bandai charged.

[shuji]

i think the demands for this vf25 just for alto..maybe the hero of the MF..huhu..as per i read n heard ozma armor will have some problem..maybe the armored part is to heavy or to pack to put on vf25..and for issued for floppy here n there on vf25..i think this is general issued even yamato having the same problem n complaint for the sv51-nora n ivanov...we can hope bandai can restruggle for this line to make sure all the collectior feel worth it to buy from bandai..

[ff95gj]

It's not about me vs. you. It's about you against nearly everyone else. The praise for the VF-27 stretches wide and far. It's almost as if you choose not to like it because it proves you wrong. You're still free to not like it and voice that opinion but it puts your whole argument in an awkward light as you are clearly in the minority and your argument is predicated on the majority opinion being wrong.

Why would you view that as an ARGUMENT? And now you bring the level to "me against everyone else" too.

I never intend to prove my thought is better than yours; I just don't regard Bandai has been doing a good job in my opinion.

We all have our own judgement and we have different opinions. Why the accusation that I choose not to like VF-27 because it would prove me WRONG? Why would you continuously put me in a light that I am not judging honestly? So you can prove yourself CORRECT and not pointing fingers mistakenly? Because I have a different opinion, so I must be lying to myself and others?

My apology to other viewers. I should stop now, or this might never stop.

- Bandai was so nice to issue the DX VF-25 series to us, and already did their best to deliver the products. I should be thankful.

- DX VF-27 is the most awesome toy in history. As most people love it, I should too.

- Yamato would not be able to perform any better if they did get the license back then. They made valks with broken shoulders.

[eugimon]

Yes, the DX VF-25 toys do have issues for sure... ESPECIALLY the armored Ozma. The armored Ozma is kind of a calamity. Yamato's track record on very first releases though is ridiculously piss poor. They've had a few all stars but they've also had SEVERAL releases with full on limb breakage which exceeds anything Bandai has done wrong as far as the DX line is concerned. Sure, there were a couple people who did get a limb to come off a 25 toy but every instance was a case of a broken screw... not the toy breaking. Even when Yamato has revisited designs they've found new ways to make them fragile... that's just kinda special... and the price would again be far more than Bandai charged.

Yeah, you can point to any specific yamato release and it will have either poor QC or a flawed design, but my point is the dx vf-25 has them ALL. In one toy. It's spectacularly poorly designed with a transformation that causes joints to break, one of the the 3 modes is flat out broken requiring a partial mistransformation just to get it to look like it does in the show, there's a key hinge that doesn't work because there's no way it supports any weight without shoving something in there (this joint isn't even fixed on the 27), the plastic is of such poor quality it can't even retain its own volume over time and the paint job is atrocious.

So yeah. Maybe if Yamato did it first there would be something wrong but there's plenty wrong with the dx vf-25. There's no way you can honestly argue that the quality and design of the dx 25 is a win for bandai.

[jenius]

Why would you view that as an ARGUMENT? And now you bring the level to "me against everyone else" too.

I never intend to prove my thought is better than yours; I just don't regard Bandai has been doing a good job in my opinion.

We all have our own judgement and we have different opinions. Why the accusation that I choose not to like VF-27 because it would prove me WRONG? Why would you continuously put me in a light that I am not judging honestly? So you can prove yourself CORRECT and not pointing fingers mistakenly? Because I have a different opinion, so I must be lying to myself and others?

I think you're reading my posts a bit too literally. You can replace the word "argument" with "debate" as we are discussing two different opinions on a hypothetical situation. You have every right to NOT like the VF-27... it's just awkward to say it doesn't represent a solid effort by Bandai because, for whatever reason, you personally aren't a fan. It'd be like saying "George Lucas has never made a good film and before anyone says I'm wrong, I hate Star Wars." It's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but you kinda have to expect some people are just going to raise their eyebrow in response.

The DX-25 could definitely be a MUCH better toy. I think we're all certain that no matter who makes the next VF-25 toy (should we ever get one) that it will improve upon the many flaws of the DX-25. In fact, the DX-27 actually is kind of like a second gen 25 and it's already clear that big strides forward were made. I think that's the case with pretty much all similar Macross toys. All these toys are based on the same design so it's not like there are huge areas to be unique. So each generation of toy (within similar scale and budgets) ought to be a bit better than the last and obviously it's a lot easier to make a VF-1 at this point and nail it then a toy that was never made before. Of course, it also matters how we define "better" and if sales are an indication I think it would have been very difficult for a toy with a higher price point to have performed better in the market than the DX-25 did and I find it unlikely Yamato would have been any where close to the DX-25's MSRP. We also can't say "Bandai doesn't care about R&D and Yamato does" when Yamato has shipped us turds in boxes and told us it was the next big thing. Sometimes companies try real hard and just come up a little short. That's all just my opinion so you can feel free to disagree with me and insist you're right... don't take my defending my position as a vendetta... on these boards more people probably agree with you than me.

EDIT-

So yeah. Maybe if Yamato did it first there would be something wrong but there's plenty wrong with the dx vf-25. There's no way you can honestly argue that the quality and design of the dx 25 is a win for bandai.

I think you're blowing some of the DX-25's minor issues (which certainly add up) a bit out of proportion. Yes, it's a mediocre toy with a lame GERWALK mode. True, you can't get the crotch aggressively angled in Battroid. Rubbing it does make paint come off. The only time I've seen them break though is when people use the GBP armor so I kind of consider that more a flaw of the GBP and the Herculean effort it takes to get the armor to fit into the wing root. Yes, this is also lame because the toy doesn't seem like it included enough forethought about how the armor would attach. Obviously, this toy is no rock star and I am certainly not arguing that there's no way Yamato could have made a better toy had they been the first to the market with a VF-25 toy. What I'm arguing is that Yamato would have produced a better toy (by MW/adult collector standards) that would have been more expensive, sold worse, might have had potentially game-ending durability issues, and that Yamato would not have had the resources to follow it up in the manner that Bandai was able to by choosing a lower price-point and a more toy-like emphasis. You could be the proud owner of an amazing looking VF-25 toy with no arms kicking yourself for not waiting for next year's release of the same toy with some minor durability improvements AND super parts instead of comparing your DX-25 to the improved DX-27 after having skipped the Tornado, GBP, and Super Variants displayed next to Michael, Luca, and Grace in front of your Quarter with the Konig off to the side and the Robot Spirits line off to the other (and those crappy VF100 permanently stuck in a drawer somewhere).

Edited October 27, 2010 by jenius