FNG's thoughts on Macross

[Wastegate13]

This probably doesn't warrant its own thread but here goes anyhow.

I, like some of you, was introduced to Macross through Robotech. I wasn't even thought of when either of the two shows were originally broadcast but became intrigued by a Jetfire toy that sat high on my older brother's shelf. Years later, thanks to Cartoon Network, I got the chance to watch the show that my brother told me about when I was little. I was hooked. The internet was starting to blossom and the wealth of Robotech related information was astonishing. I quickly learned the truth about Robotech's origins so I expanded my knowledge quest to include Macross Plus and Macross 7. To this day I have floppy discs loaded with mecha stats and pictures lol /nerd.

Fast forward a few years and I stumble upon this place, a collection of like minded individuals who share my passion for Macross. I learn of the Yamato toys and other merchandise that are priced far outside my school kid budget. At this point I have still never seen the original Macross but I did receive the Robotech: Macross saga complete collection for Christmas. I watched the entire thing in 3 days, shortly after I made an order with the Valkyrie Exchange for DYRL Perfect Edition and with Amazon for Macross Plus OVA and Movie which to this day remains my favorite (so far).

I got busy with life and took a few years off from the hobby and now I've made my way back. I started things off right and watched the entire SDF:M series on HuLu in 2 sittings. Yes, I have that kind of spare time. Next up would have been DYRL but my DVD player has been acting up. A situation that I plan to remedy very soon with a PS3. I downloaded Macross Zero and that brings me to my actual point.

WTF happened?

The show was gorgeous no doubt but what the hell was going on with a giant birdman who eats a young native girl and then kidnaps her into space? One of my biggest attractions to Macross originally was its plausibility, even if the entire show was fantastic with space dogfights against a numerically superior army of alien clones, it was rooted in reality. Now I'm not against "magic" and other such fiction but I just felt like I was blind sided, almost betrayed by the franchise when the story took the turn that it did. I've not seen Macross 7 but I plan on downloading it soon and I'm hoping that by having already been surprised by Zero that I can enjoy it. Frontier looks promising to me and perhaps a little closer in spirit to the original. Anyone else feel this way? I invite you all to pick apart my posting and show me where and how I'm wrong.

[jenius]

From a real top view, Macross 7 is the most direct sequel to SDF:M and is a running leap away from a serious story to a much more fantastic Macross universe. MacZero is actually a lot easier to stomach if you can get all the way through Mac7 (no small feat... it's got a completely different tone from SDF:M) but there's no arguing that MacZero had a lot of people scratching their heads. From a universe perspective, everything makes sense but at times you'll definitely feel like different shows were meant to appeal to different audiences (as one would hopefully expect considering the time lag between them). MacZero also suffers from some really odd story-telling... it kind of feels like an episode got lost in there toward the end.

[azrael]

The show was gorgeous no doubt but what the hell was going on with a giant birdman who eats a young native girl and then kidnaps her into space? One of my biggest attractions to Macross originally was its plausibility, even if the entire show was fantastic with space dogfights against a numerically superior army of alien clones, it was rooted in reality. Now I'm not against "magic" and other such fiction but I just felt like I was blind sided, almost betrayed by the franchise when the story took the turn that it did.

#1, It's a show, i.e. fiction, where planes turning into giant robots. How is that even plausible?

#2, Clarke's 3rd law, Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. It should be quite obvious that Protoculture is far more advanced than humans.

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Oh man, I feel some of myself in you talking (long time lurker, new poster). There are going to be a few crowds of people you will see. Those that love everything Mr. K does, and hate macross II (but love 7). There are those that only love one or two shows and hate the rest, and those in between which like/love most of the shows to differing degree's but can find something redeeming in each series.

Hopefully this won't sound like a rant, just an opinion.....Flame suit on

With that being said....Mac 7 is probably the most polarizing show there is and I am more then willing to admit that there is all of one or two episodes I care for (ep 26, and fleet of strongest women) and then a handful of scenes besides them (who doesn't like seeing Max run the death star trench?). In my opinion if one were to compile good battle scenes from the entire series, you would have trouble making your clip last an hour, and that is for a freakin Macross that is damn near 50 episodes in length! Hopefully that gives you an indication of what you will see. Lots of Basara, which sometimes I think people pretend they like him as a kind of joke....BOMBA!!! The "Movie" and OVA are not any better IMO.

If zero bothered you, which it initially did for me too until I watched a good translation, Macross 7 will more then likely have similar results but too a much greater degree. It is Macross so I have no choice but to watch it, but it is definitely like the strange uncle of the family that says inappropriate things and makes everyone feel uncomfortable.

*Flame suit off*

One of the reasons I feel that Frontier is so popular is that it stays true to the original Macross feeling yet manages to update it for a modern generation. Most of the new anime conventions I could care less for (fan service, high school mecha pilots(I like to pretend it is a college) and making 14 year olds sex symbols) but the music is great, the mecha are great and the story creates drama. At a very minimum from an action perspective, Frontier won't let you down. With that being said, the whole "song energy" thing started in Mac 7 and continued in Zero is here to stay, even in Frontier, so you are going to have to get used to the idea and rationalize some plausibility into it so you can enjoy it more.

*Flame suite back on*

I also recommend Macross II. It is not series canon and the animation is a step down from DYRL even though it is newer. It is probably the second most polarizing of the Macross because Kawamori did not do it and people don't like that it is sort of a recycled DYRL; however, it does retain some of that original Macross feeling.

*Flame off*

[

Edited October 15, 2010 by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX

[frothymug]

I LOVE Zero, and quite frankly, I find it hard to believe that people just can't follow the story. As Azrael noted, you just have to learn to gain perspective on how advanced the Protoculture were. I didn't have any qualms about the series, except that the ending was a tiny bit ambiguous. We can assume that Sara commanded the Birdman to fold out of the atmosphere, but how did Shin do the same? Was it her power, or did he have it within him as Mao suggested? Aside from that, the mecha battles were sexy as hell and the characters were well-written.

I disliked 7, simply because I felt like I was watching the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers. The series was obviously geared towards a much younger audience than before and there were so many things about that series that just rubbed my fur the wrong way. If you didn't like Zero, be prepared for a tough viewing of 7. Although, imo, Zero was 956070834x better than 7.

[Seto Kaiba]

I downloaded Macross Zero and that brings me to my actual point.

WTF happened?

Y'know, I asked myself that question initially too... Macross Zero is a bit strange, but it's also fantastic eye candy where the mecha are concerned. The story's a bit on the confusing side, but it really does help if you watch the shows in rough production order, since they gradually build up the concept of the Protoculture in each individual series. Azrael put it best, that the whole birdhuman shenanigans is more an of application of Clarke's 3rd Law than actual magic. You'll find Macross Frontier adds a little bit to the understanding of that once you get around to it.

I've not seen Macross 7 but I plan on downloading it soon and I'm hoping that by having already been surprised by Zero that I can enjoy it. Frontier looks promising to me and perhaps a little closer in spirit to the original. Anyone else feel this way? I invite you all to pick apart my posting and show me where and how I'm wrong.

Speaking as someone who enjoys pretty much all of Macross (though admittedly it took me a while and some improved subs to gain an appreciation of Macross 7), I think it's safe to say that if you avidly dislike it when a series like Macross does things less-than-seriously, you'll probably find Macross 7 slightly offensive. If you're someone who really enjoyed the occasionally insane, over-the-top blend of silly/awesome in G Gundam, you'll probably love Macross 7. Either way, give it a chance... and if you don't like what you see in the first couple of episodes, skip right to #22 or thereabouts and you should be in good shape.

[hulagu]

The show was gorgeous no doubt but what the hell was going on with a giant birdman who eats a young native girl and then kidnaps her into space? One of my biggest attractions to Macross originally was its plausibility, even if the entire show was fantastic with space dogfights against a numerically superior army of alien clones, it was rooted in reality. Now I'm not against "magic" and other such fiction but I just felt like I was blind sided, almost betrayed by the franchise when the story took the turn that it did. I've not seen Macross 7 but I plan on downloading it soon and I'm hoping that by having already been surprised by Zero that I can enjoy it. Frontier looks promising to me and perhaps a little closer in spirit to the original. Anyone else feel this way? I invite you all to pick apart my posting and show me where and how I'm wrong.

It's more confusing if you're viewing with the Robotech definition of Protoculture in mind, instead of the Macross

precursor race.

Actually, I think Zero comes closest to science fiction than any of the other series so far (well, it rips off tbe premise of The Day the Earth Stood Still).

I love how they couch the backstory of Zero in between the lines of the Bird Human myth.

Edited October 15, 2010 by hulagu

[Keith]

Macross 7 is not a Sentai show by any measure, any comparisons to the genre are uninformed at best.

Macross 7 is a show featuring a Super Robot pilot in a real mecha universe. That's the trouble those who dislike it seem to have with it. Personaly I think it works incredibly well. But then your general like of it will be measured of how much of an anime fan you actually are. If you're only major exposure has been Macross, and you're not up into most anime-isms as a whole, a lot of it will very well seem strange. But as others have said, many things in current Macross are based on technology vastly past the realm of what was in the first series, but don't mistake the fact that it is still based in technology.

We can assume that Sara commanded the Birdman to fold out of the atmosphere, but how did Shin do the same? Was it her power, or did he have it within him as Mao suggested? Aside from that, the mecha battles were sexy as hell and the characters were well-written.

Frontier is your major clue here. The level of tech that the Protoculture achieved at the point that they tinkered with Earth, was near Vajra levels. What that means, is that their mecha interface was likely bio-mechanical with an interface similar to that whichi s caused by the V-Type virus. The Nome family line were directly decended from a Protoculture female pilot, and as such, Sara & Mao had a natural interface with the AFOS. Since current U.N. Spacy tech was based off of a downed Supervision Army (read re-engineered PC vessel), the VF-0 also had roots in the same tech. Bonus, the Nome family earrings (which we know Mao must have had, since they were passed along to Sheryl) work as a booster for said bio-interface.

What does this all mean? Mao was able to link up the AFOS & Shin's Zero, & Shin was pulled along with Sara in the fold.

[Nicaragua]

I thought Macross Zero was excellent and didn’t have any issues with the storyline.

To be honest if you have issues getting your head round the Birdman mecha (its just a biological mecha, its not that hard to grasp) then Macross 7’s Protodevlin (giant furry soul sucking beasts) and Frontiers Vajra (inter-dimensional beetles) will completely screw you up.

[Renato]

It's not the story or concepts in Zero that I personally have a problem with, it's the pacing and characters in the show. The plot does not flow well towards the latter half, and the protagonist does not really do anything until the end. The relationship he forms with Sara is rushed or at least unnaturally developed. Considering the episodes took so much longer to produce than originally planned (they had a two-year plan which eventually became a four-year production just for five episodes), I don't doubt that there were many, many rewrites and the last two episodes were a result of trying (but failing) to keep the plot cohesive. The opening 20 seconds of episode 5 is a total cop-out, a blatant flashing sign that reads "OK, we don't know how to write ourselves out of this one, so let's just skip all the details and pretend a bunch of stuff happened, OK?"

I think the podcast on this over at DestroyAllPodcasts-dot-com hits all the right points on the matter of Zero.

[Renato]

Oh yeah, what does FNG stand for? Fairly New Guy?

[frothymug]

I can totally understand the complaints about the beginning of episode 5. When I first saw it, I started going back to episode 4 and checking to see if I actually missed a portion of the story. I don't know... perhaps they felt they were up against a time restriction. Oh well...

I want to point out that when you see Sara inside of the Birdman, she's got those organic tendrils wrapped around her body and attached to various points of her skin. You see the same kind of tendrils in DYRL when Exedol is both displaying the images from the miclone ship, and when he is translating to the captured miclones. Yet another little PC design detail that's survived for eons.

[Dynaman]

Oh yeah, what does FNG stand for? Fairly New Guy?

Yes, just replace the word "Fairly" with something I can't say on the message board.

[azrael]

Yes, just replace the word "Fairly" with something I can't say on the message board.

Frakin' New Guy. We have no problem with using "Frak".

[DrunkenPilot72]

The show was gorgeous no doubt but what the hell was going on with a giant birdman who eats a young native girl and then kidnaps her into space? One of my biggest attractions to Macross originally was its plausibility, even if the entire show was fantastic with space dogfights against a numerically superior army of alien clones, it was rooted in reality. Now I'm not against "magic" and other such fiction but I just felt like I was blind sided, almost betrayed by the franchise when the story took the turn that it did. I've not seen Macross 7 but I plan on downloading it soon and I'm hoping that by having already been surprised by Zero that I can enjoy it. Frontier looks promising to me and perhaps a little closer in spirit to the original. Anyone else feel this way? I invite you all to pick apart my posting and show me where and how I'm wrong.

As others have stated, the biggest problem is that you went straight from the original Macross series with Robotech mindset to Macross Zero, a series which was suppose to help bridge the gap from Macross to Mac 7/Frontier. Macross Zero makes little sense as a strict prequel to Macross and by viewing it as such you get a royally ****** up story. Aside from Roy and the VF-0, there are no clear cut ties to the original series which would explain how a fan such as yourself could feel betrayed.

However when viewed as the first chapter to the entire Macross universe, Zero makes perfect sense especially after viewing Mac 7 and Frontier. Trust me the stuff in Zero is realistic compared to the over the top nature of Mac 7. As Keith said, you are dealing with a Super Robot Pilot in a realistic universe (more specifically, a singing plot device).

Generally speaking, the original Macross, DYRL, and Macross Plus are the most well received. Frontier is more geared towards the current anime crowd so it may seem a little juvenile for fans of the original series. Zero was, as you can tell, not met with universal praise but it does have it's share of loyal fans. Mac 7 is the most off the wall series in the Macross universe so it gets the most hate.

[Keith]

Generally speaking, the original Macross, DYRL, and Macross Plus are the most well received. Frontier is more geared towards the current anime crowd so it may seem a little juvenile for fans of the original series. Zero was, as you can tell, not met with universal praise but it does have it's share of loyal fans. Mac 7 is the most off the wall series in the Macross universe so it gets the most hate.

Actually, those stats only stand for the U.S. fanbase. 7 was actually the most popular series until Frontier arrived, and all across the board, II has been the most hated.

[taksraven]

I loved Macross Zero, especially watching it at the time that it came out. Just a reminder for some people that internationally 2001-2002 was a very dark time, with a lot of bad stuff going on (no, I am not opening up a discussion about the politics of the era, or mentioning specific events, I am just trying to put things into context) and I think that the dark and often horrific tone of Macross Zero reflected that perfectly.

Its easy to forget that a lot of shows are "products of their time" and sometimes you will have to consider what was going on in the "real world" to understand the true context of things such as TV shows, films, books, and even music.

As for the "magic" of Macross Zero, I agree with Azrael in that it was about showing the power of the Protoculture with their technology that seems fantastic by our standards....

Taksraven

Edited October 15, 2010 by taksraven

[jenius]

Nah, I can deal with some fantastical elements but they had crap like people escaping on flying rocks and sometimes SILLY concepts wedged in. Luke used the force to lift an X-wing out of the swamp and it was seemingly magical but not silly. The flying rocks seemed silly to me. I'm not saying flying rocks have no place in the Macross universe I'm just saying the writing was poor.

[Noyhauser]

Nah, I can deal with some fantastical elements but they had crap like people escaping on flying rocks and sometimes SILLY concepts wedged in. Luke used the force to lift an X-wing out of the swamp and it was seemingly magical but not silly. The flying rocks seemed silly to me. I'm not saying flying rocks have no place in the Macross universe I'm just saying the writing was poor.

I agree that the writing was poor overall for Macross Zero, but I think the flying rocks weren't one of the problems. People expect that super-advanced beings must have dispensed with myths and superstitions in order to achieve greatness. Having recently re-watched Frontier and Zero, its really apparent how spiritual the Protoculture really were. They worshiped the mysteries of the universe like the Vajira and had elaborate rituals and iconography to support it. Floating rocks, bird-men and other pieces of technology reflected that.

There was an obvious contradiction which I think Kawamori was trying to show. The islanders way of life, despite being extremely primitive compared to the UN was more in line with how the Protoculture thought. Thats why they had a connection to the island, which responded to their emotions. What was "magical" were effects created by Protoculture machines, whether it be the Bird Human or some other automated system at work.

[Macette]

I want to point out that when you see Sara inside of the Birdman, she's got those organic tendrils wrapped around her body and attached to various points of her skin. You see the same kind of tendrils in DYRL when Exedol is both displaying the images from the miclone ship, and when he is translating to the captured miclones. Yet another little PC design detail that's survived for eons.

And Ranka in Macross Frontier when she was captured by the Vadra.

[frothymug]

Uh yeah, in the movie. You're right about that.

[Million Star]

OP, you sound like you have the same basic mindset as me about Macross, the magic and hocus pocus stuff is garbage. The minmay attack goes from psy ops to `song energy`, wtf? I recommend you stop with Macross II and disregards 7, Zero, Plus and Frontier from the continuity. If you want more story get a PC Engine and a Saturn and track down the canon games.

[Keith]

OP, you sound like you have the same basic mindset as me about Macross, the magic and hocus pocus stuff is garbage. The minmay attack goes from psy ops to `song energy`, wtf? I recommend you stop with Macross II and disregards 7, Zero, Plus and Frontier from the continuity. If you want more story get a PC Engine and a Saturn and track down the canon games.

I reccomend you not listen to this person.

[Gubaba]

I like ALL Macross...SDFM, DYRL, FB2012, II, Plus, 7, 7 Gin, Plus Movie Edition, MD7, Macross Generation, Zero, Frontier, Frontier False Diva...all of it.

Is there something wrong with me...?

[Keith]

I like ALL Macross...SDFM, DYRL, FB2012, II, Plus, 7, 7 Gin, Plus Movie Edition, MD7, Macross Generation, Zero, Frontier, Frontier False Diva...all of it.

Is there something wrong with me...?

That sir, makes you a "Macross" fan!

[Wastegate13]

It's not the story or concepts in Zero that I personally have a problem with, it's the pacing and characters in the show. The plot does not flow well towards the latter half, and the protagonist does not really do anything until the end. The relationship he forms with Sara is rushed or at least unnaturally developed. Considering the episodes took so much longer to produce than originally planned (they had a two-year plan which eventually became a four-year production just for five episodes), I don't doubt that there were many, many rewrites and the last two episodes were a result of trying (but failing) to keep the plot cohesive. The opening 20 seconds of episode 5 is a total cop-out, a blatant flashing sign that reads "OK, we don't know how to write ourselves out of this one, so let's just skip all the details and pretend a bunch of stuff happened, OK?"

I think the podcast on this over at DestroyAllPodcasts-dot-com hits all the right points on the matter of Zero.

Bravo!

As others have stated, the biggest problem is that you went straight from the original Macross series with Robotech mindset to Macross Zero, a series which was suppose to help bridge the gap from Macross to Mac 7/Frontier. Macross Zero makes little sense as a strict prequel to Macross and by viewing it as such you get a royally ****** up story. Aside from Roy and the VF-0, there are no clear cut ties to the original series which would explain how a fan such as yourself could feel betrayed.

However when viewed as the first chapter to the entire Macross universe, Zero makes perfect sense especially after viewing Mac 7 and Frontier. Trust me the stuff in Zero is realistic compared to the over the top nature of Mac 7. As Keith said, you are dealing with a Super Robot Pilot in a realistic universe (more specifically, a singing plot device).

Generally speaking, the original Macross, DYRL, and Macross Plus are the most well received. Frontier is more geared towards the current anime crowd so it may seem a little juvenile for fans of the original series. Zero was, as you can tell, not met with universal praise but it does have it's share of loyal fans. Mac 7 is the most off the wall series in the Macross universe so it gets the most hate.

Well I guess I didn't quite know the can of worms I was opening when I posted this thread. I haven't seen Robotech in years now. HuLu has the english dub version of SDF:M available for viewing, which is what I watched a few days before ZERO.

I think maybe I should go back and say that I didn't totally hate ZERO, just that it was quite a shock to be confronted with so many "magical" elements in a show that I had always associated with technology and a "reality" based story. Kind of like some people hate the 3rd Matrix movie because it goes way too far into spirituality and heaven/hell parallels which is in contrast to the first movie, which has a few undertones but unless you really pay attention are very easy to miss.

Reading some of the posts here actually help to make more sense of the whole thing for me. When I originally watched ZERO it was late and I was very tired. Would you guys recommend Mac7 before an encore viewing of ZERO?

Edited October 17, 2010 by Wastegate13

[Seto Kaiba]

Reading some of the posts here actually help to make more sense of the whole thing for me. When I originally watched ZERO it was late and I was very tired. Would you guys recommend Mac7 before an encore viewing of ZERO?

Sort of... it's not really a requirement, but it helps to have seen how previous Macross shows have built up the history and legend of the Protoculture before tacking Macross Zero. Each installment of Macross is technically a stand-alone title in that they're usually self-contained enough that you don't need to have seen the ones that came before it, but it really does help.

[DrunkenPilot72]

Actually, those stats only stand for the U.S. fanbase. 7 was actually the most popular series until Frontier arrived, and all across the board, II has been the most hated.

You know I knew that 7 fared better in Japan but I honestly didn't expect it to be the second most popular Macross title. Then again it does explain how something like Gundam Seed was so damn successful over there.

OP, you sound like you have the same basic mindset as me about Macross, the magic and hocus pocus stuff is garbage. The minmay attack goes from psy ops to `song energy`, wtf? I recommend you stop with Macross II and disregards 7, Zero, Plus and Frontier from the continuity. If you want more story get a PC Engine and a Saturn and track down the canon games.

You lost credibility the moment you threw out Plus seeing as how it has least amount of magic and hocus pocus garbage than any other entry in the series.

Well I guess I didn't quite know the can of worms I was opening when I posted this thread. I haven't seen Robotech in years now. HuLu has the english dub version of SDF:M available for viewing, which is what I watched a few days before ZERO.

I think maybe I should go back and say that I didn't totally hate ZERO, just that it was quite a shock to be confronted with so many "magical" elements in a show that I had always associated with technology and a "reality" based story. Kind of like some people hate the 3rd Matrix movie because it goes way too far into spirituality and heaven/hell parallels which is in contrast to the first movie, which has a few undertones but unless you really pay attention are very easy to miss.

Reading some of the posts here actually help to make more sense of the whole thing for me. When I originally watched ZERO it was late and I was very tired. Would you guys recommend Mac7 before an encore viewing of ZERO?

To be frank, the majority of Macross does flow closer to the "magical" elements in Zero than the "reality" based story found in the original. I personally don't care for Mac 7 or Frontier but those sagas account for the lion's share of Macross. I honestly couldn't recommend Mac 7 to anyone but the I also know I'm in the minority as far as Macross fans go.

[Keith]

Reading some of the posts here actually help to make more sense of the whole thing for me. When I originally watched ZERO it was late and I was very tired. Would you guys recommend Mac7 before an encore viewing of ZERO?

If you've already watched DYRL & Plus, then by all means, it's time to watch 7. Prepaire to have your world rocked.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Keith

[VFTF1]

Oh - how this brings back the old debates about Zero... I protest against the word "magic" when referencing events in Zero. Just because you don't understand the science behind something, doesn't make it "magic." From the point of view of pre-scientific peoples, it could be argued that cars are magic - I tend to look at the events of Zero in that way: we're dealing with super advanced bio-technology and our minds are just incapable of grasping certain things.

Pete

[Keith]

Oh - how this brings back the old debates about Zero... I protest against the word "magic" when referencing events in Zero. Just because you don't understand the science behind something, doesn't make it "magic." From the point of view of pre-scientific peoples, it could be argued that cars are magic - I tend to look at the events of Zero in that way: we're dealing with super advanced bio-technology and our minds are just incapable of grasping certain things.

Pete

That sounds like Data Integration Thought Entity talk.....BURN HIM!

[Seto Kaiba]

You know I knew that 7 fared better in Japan but I honestly didn't expect it to be the second most popular Macross title.

It isn't that surprising, really... the importance of music to culture and its power to sway emotions has been a major plot element in Macross, and the music itself usually ends up being one of the show's selling points. All that really changed in the winning Macross formula when they made Macross 7 was that they took the music's importance to its (il)logical extreme. In hindsight, it was a shining example of the right show at the right time, since a break from the dark, serious business shows seems to have been just what the audience wanted. It gets flak from viewers over here for the same reasons that it was a huge success over there... its lighter and less serious story, and its tendency towards comedy and hotbloodedness.

If you're the sort of person who insists on a series taking itself seriously, Macross 7 is usually a painful show to watch. It doesn't take itself seriously, so those who try to take it seriously end up with a headache. Those who don't mind suspending disbelief and cynicism for a while can usually find something to enjoy in the completely over-the-top, crazy-ass antics of Basara and company.

(That last paragraph is, I suppose, the real answer I should direct to wastegate13's question about Macross 7)

You lost credibility the moment you threw out Plus seeing as how it has least amount of magic and hocus pocus garbage than any other entry in the series.

'kay... we don't really need to resort to that, do we?

[VFTF1]

That sounds like Data Integration Thought Entity talk.....BURN HIM!

Actually, this is a great analogy.

One of these days, I'll write up a good review of Macross Zero trying to debunk the whole "it's wishy-washy naturalism/magic/earth-god" opinion that has sprung up around it. Until then, there's my Bambo Leaf Rhapsody review :-) : http://dyrl.pl/detale.html?id=932

Pete

[Million Star]

You lost credibility the moment you threw out Plus seeing as how it has least amount of magic and hocus pocus garbage than any other entry in the series.

Fair enough. I just didnt enjoy Plus at all either really. It didnt feel like a Macross show and thats because it wasn`t, it was just a generic OVA script picked off the shelf by Kawamori, given the Macross name and shoved awkwardly into Macross continuity.

I guess I`m more of a purist and only follow Big West endorsed Macross. Its really the only true Macross, the rest is just a power mad floating head getting carried away.

[anime52k8]

I guess I`m more of a purist and only follow Big West endorsed Macross. Its really the only true Macross, the rest is just a power mad floating head getting carried away.

Wat? Big West endorses ALL OF MACROSS. They own the rights to the franchise, nothing gets produced with the Macross name on it in Japan without Big Wests approval.