FNG's thoughts on Macross

[ff95gj]

- I live in Asia, and I never watch Robotech.

- I know a lot of people dislike M7 in a local toy forum. Some of them Macross fans, many of them not.

- There is nothing wrong if someone does not like an anime. It's not a viewer's problem - "he does not know enough about the series", "he cannot accept new things", etc. Did anyone know anything about the original Macross to enjoy it? Wasn't it new in concept at the moment it was aired?

- I don't like M7. I can accept new things, but I do not just accept any new things.

- I would shy from this thread in the coming week to evade flames.

[Vifam7]

Fair enough, but I think she still had the attitude adjustment in series. I just mentioned Robotech because most Robo fans I've encountered HATE Minmay, and I can't really blame them for it.

And that's the problem I think. When western fans watch Macross, it's often AFTER having seen Robotech. Unfortunately the Robotech Minmay leaves such an impression that I think it becomes hard to separate the 2 characters. Had one seen Macross first and Robotech afterwards (or never at all), I think the image of Minmay in the west would be a bit different.

As for Macross 7, even in Japan, there are those who like the series and those who hate the series. In my experience, the divide in general seems to fall between the generations. The 80's generation kids don't like it but the 90's generation kids love it. This is just from my viewpoint though and not necessarily true for all cases.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Vifam7

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Macross Generation.

There was a Macross show called Macross Generation? Where would I find it?

But seriously if there is a Macross show I haven't seen I need to watch it now!

[Seto Kaiba]

There was a Macross show called Macross Generation? Where would I find it?

Gubaba's gonna get caught on the technicality that Macross Generation is a radio show rather than a television show. It ran for ten episodes back in Spring 1997, and was set on Macross-9 in the year 2047.

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Gubaba's gonna get caught on the technicality that Macross Generation is a radio show rather than a television show. It ran for ten episodes back in Spring 1997, and was set on Macross-9 in the year 2047.

I suppose a radio show is still a show... touche Gubaba

You win this round

Sounds bad by the wikipedia summary, but is there an English translation available? (probably not)

[Renato]

"Macross 7 Trash" also made the transition from manga to radio show back in the 90s, and neither had Valkyries (except for maybe one or two pages of the first manga volume, just to fill in the background).

[Protoculture]

- I live in Asia, and I never watch Robotech.

I live in Asia, and I actually watched Robotech (with SDF Macross to boot!)

- I know a lot of people dislike M7 in a local toy forum. Some of them Macross fans, many of them not.

I know a lot of people who didn't even know Macross, but spewing Robotech references instead. But thanks to Plus & Seven, some of them actually remembering the good ole SDFM again. Thanks to Fire Bomber!

- There is nothing wrong if someone does not like an anime. It's not a viewer's problem - "he does not know enough about the series", "he cannot accept new things", etc. Did anyone know anything about the original Macross to enjoy it? Wasn't it new in concept at the moment it was aired?

Agreed.

- I don't like M7. I can accept new things, but I do not just accept any new things.

I like M7. I can accept new things, eventhough I will judged at first harshly blinded by prejudiced on something so radical, but will grow to like it & even fond of it nonetheless.

- I would shy from this thread in the coming week to evade flames.

You, dear sir, are wise indeed. I do suggest should you itching enough to post again, pls don a flame-proof suit. Although that still wouldn't save you from being quartered, drowned or being shoved outta deepspace with that darn tuna.

[Xeros]

What can I say... I like Macross 7, but I get nauseas when I hear Planet Dance...

[Keith]

What can I say... I like Macross 7, but I get nauseas when I hear Planet Dance...

Don't worry. That's what I like to call "The Planet Dance Effect." It starts off with "hey, that's a cool song." Then goes to "GOD DAMNIT I CAN'T STAND THIS FREAKIN' SONG." And finally you'll end up with "OMG THIS IS THE MOST EPIC SONG." Not sure why that happens, but it does.

[Beltane70]

Hey, I never had a problem with "Planet Dance". I must be weird, right?

[ff95gj]

I like M7. I can accept new things, eventhough I will judged at first harshly blinded by prejudiced on something so radical, but will grow to like it & even fond of it nonetheless.

Come on! Disliking it doesn't mean you are blinded or prejudiced.

Why a Macross fan has to force himself to like every Macross made? Kawamori isn't a god. He is only a demi-one.

[Gubaba]

Hey, I never had a problem with "Planet Dance". I must be weird, right?

Back when Macross Plus came out in the US, I kept hearing rumblings about Macross 7, and I really wanted to see it...but before I realized that the video rental shops in L.A.'s Little Tokyo area carried it, I found Kinokuniya, and bought "LET'S FIRE!!"

Being a fan of weird, alternative music (4AD was my favorite record label, and I was hanging out with a lot of the local L.A. bands, like That Dog and (occasionally) Beck and Weezer), I was horrified when I popped the CD in, and heard synthesizers and harmonicas. Then I watched the show, and my feelings about the music didn't improve.

But for some reason, I like it all now (even though I think the production on the music for the TV series sounds a little TOO clean and "professional." "Dynamite Fire!!" is the first album that sounds as tough as I think Fire Bomber SHOULD sound. And "Fukuyama Fire!!!" is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered).

Yes, I even like the harmonica.

[Beltane70]

I've always liked the music of M7 more than I like the series itself. This still holds true today, some 16 years later.

[Marzan]

I would have definitely not liked M7 like I did without Fire Bombers music. And I think Planet Dance is is far from one of their better numbers.

[peter]

This isn't about "liking what I like," it's about not making up peoples minds for them. With the very vocal minority of 7 haters in this forum, someone has to point out the otherside of that particular argument, otherwise you just get people sitting un-informed and perpetuating that particular opnion without actually watching the series. Considering he jumped into Zero without the backlog Protoculture tech that 7 provided, naturally it would be a bit of a head scratcher. All the more reason to watch 7.

Sorry to jump into this a little late, but Phyrox has a good point, if the guy didn't take well to Zero, it's not hard to put two and two together...he's going to hate 7. But by all means though pal, watch 7 and decide for yourself. I did (way before reading any reviews or hate-threads on 7), and those are hours of my life I'll never get back.

As far as minority of 7 haters.......I seriously doubt it's a minority. Most of us just keep quiet nowadays because it's just getting old. Hating 7 is about as fun has hating HG(which used to be really fun, haha!)....just not worth the aggrevation.

[sketchley]

As far as minority of 7 haters.......I seriously doubt it's a minority. Most of us just keep quiet nowadays because it's just getting old. Hating 7 is about as fun has hating HG(which used to be really fun, haha!)....just not worth the aggrevation.

I think you should be careful of pigeon-holing Macross fans into "M7 haters" and "M7 lovers". What's most likely closer to the truth is that the silent majority don't care for M7 one way or the other (though I feel the need for the caveat of fans not caring enough to voice their opinions about the series; again either for or against).

In my case, I love the setting presented in M7. I also love the economy-of-line Kawamori-san used in the VF designs.

As for the series itself? Didn't hate it nor love it. Looking back, what sticks out the most (and probably what was the most interesting), is the band aspects (lots of practicing, performing, getting higher and higher on the charts); and also the echo of that arc in MF with Ranka (breaking into the music industry and becoming famous) and Sheryl (limited mostly to the arc about her fall from the top of the charts). But that's just me.

[peter]

I think you should be careful of pigeon-holing Macross fans into "M7 haters" and "M7 lovers". What's most likely closer to the truth is that the silent majority don't care for M7 one way or the other (though I feel the need for the caveat of fans not caring enough to voice their opinions about the series; again either for or against).

In my case, I love the setting presented in M7. I also love the economy-of-line Kawamori-san used in the VF designs.

As for the series itself? Didn't hate it nor love it. Looking back, what sticks out the most (and probably what was the most interesting), is the band aspects (lots of practicing, performing, getting higher and higher on the charts); and also the echo of that arc in MF with Ranka (breaking into the music industry and becoming famous) and Sheryl (limited mostly to the arc about her fall from the top of the charts). But that's just me.

Uhhhhh........isn't that first part pretty much what I said? When I first joined this forum, most threads were about SDF Macross, DYRL, Mac II(oooo.....blasphemous), Mac Plus, some of the games, models and toys. M7 hadn't really gotten around yet. The flame threads regarding 7 picked up just as the flame threads over HG were just dying down, and over the years, those nasty threads about M7 are now mostly gone. There are still HG debates that pop up once in a while but do I participate in them? No, don't bother...do I still hate HG? Yep.

Now let me point out that I never divided fans into "lovers" and "haters", although now that you've pointed that out, I have my doubts that the completely "neutral" fans out there are the majority. I said the "haters" are more likely to be the majority, and I still hold to that opinion. I'd start a poll to prove my point, but that would be stupid. M7 has been around long enough now to at least have circulated to most Mac fans by now. How can you not have an opinion on it???? If it's part of the fantasy universe that you're a fan of, you gotta have an opinion on it. What, you are so completely on the fence that your opinion is absolute zero? Is there anyone in this universe that can be so purely neutral? What are you, Marvin, from Pulp Fiction?

Before I found this forum, I thought I was the biggest and probably only Macross fan in my country...it was great to find so many other people who were fans of Macross. But just recently, I've discovered there's a possibility that I'm not a Macross fan at all, since I don't like everything Macross.

Edited November 8, 2010 by peter

[Noyhauser]

Before I found this forum, I thought I was the biggest and probably only Macross fan in my country...it was great to find so many other people who were fans of Macross. But just recently, I've discovered there's a possibility that I'm not a Macross fan at all, since I don't like everything Macross.

In Richmond BC? Cmon seriously, thats were everybody goes to buys Anime stuff for the past fifteen years. You'd have to be absolutely blind not to notice there are other Macross fans.

[sketchley]

Seconded. I know of at least 4 online Macross PBP RPGers from the area (Lower Mainland/Island). One can't get a more niche Macross fan then that. And if there are 4 of them...

isn't that first part pretty much what I said?

If you did, it wasn't very clearly presented (yes, went back and read your post. Many times. Sorry, wasn't there.)

Now let me point out that I never divided fans into "lovers" and "haters", although now that you've pointed that out, I have my doubts that the completely "neutral" fans out there are the majority.

Indeed, you did not. My post that you've responded to was a generic shot-gun scatter-shot aimed at all who keep attempting to polarize the debate into lovers and haters (you know who you are).

Note: I didn't say neutral. I said "not care". In general, not caring for something has a more negative than neutral connotation, no?

Edited November 8, 2010 by sketchley

[Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX]

Any Macross fans in Edmonton Alberta other than myself (and to a lesser extent my bro)?

[Jeff J]

It's probably a good thing that Macross fans are split about 7. IMO, it's drastically different from the original, and the fact that some fans are willing to express their disappointment shows that the "Macross community" aren't a bunch of mindless drones who'll like anything with the word "Macross" on it.

Not that I'm encouraging Comic Book Guy-style vitriol on the web...

[David Hingtgen]

I have to second that M7 is one season padded out to two. It's 50% filler. You could cut entire eps and NOTHING would be lost.

[Gubaba]

I have to second that M7 is one season padded out to two. It's 50% filler. You could cut entire eps and NOTHING would be lost.

Enh, I wouldn't say fifty percent...

Personally, I wish Macross 7 had been nine or ten episodes shorter, and Frontier had been nine or ten episodes longer.

[Nicaragua]

Enh, I wouldn't say fifty percent...

Personally, I wish Macross 7 had been nine or ten episodes shorter, and Frontier had been nine or ten episodes longer.

fifty percent probably isnt far off. Not fifty percent of all the episodes but 50% of the footage within all those episodes.

[azrael]

Enh, I wouldn't say fifty percent...

Personally, I wish Macross 7 had been nine or ten episodes shorter, and Frontier had been nine or ten episodes longer.

I thought M7's length was fine and Frontier was short. But then again, I'm use to series that run into the 75+ episode-range and think kids these days suffer from ADD. Naruto is 220 episodes long and kids these days complain about M7 being too long. M7 is a frakin' cake-walk compared to a show like Naruto.

[peter]

Seconded. I know of at least 4 online Macross PBP RPGers from the area (Lower Mainland/Island). One can't get a more niche Macross fan then that. And if there are 4 of them...

If you did, it wasn't very clearly presented (yes, went back and read your post. Many times. Sorry, wasn't there.)

Indeed, you did not. My post that you've responded to was a generic shot-gun scatter-shot aimed at all who keep attempting to polarize the debate into lovers and haters (you know who you are).

Note: I didn't say neutral. I said "not care". In general, not caring for something has a more negative than neutral connotation, no?

Clearly presented? Ok, let me spell it out for you my son:

I said "I doubt it's a minority, most of us just keep quiet because it's getting old" - This means we don't care anymore.

You said "The silent majority don't don't care for M7 one way or another"

Most of the haters probably don't care anymore, but truth be told, I think a lot of us just feel unwelcome here now because the minute we spark up a personal opinion on 7, we get ripped to shreds. If you don't like M7, you can't play here, you're a troll. I've been on this forum for a few years now, and some jack-hole called me a troll because I said I didn't like 7.

Anyway, this thread is evolving into another M7 debate. Wastegate 13, my opinion, ignore all this crap and go ahead and watch 7 and watch MF. Formulate your own opinions and don't base them on what you've read here.

[shiroth]

I thought M7's length was fine and Frontier was short. But then again, I'm use to series that run into the 75+ episode-range and think kids these days suffer from ADD. Naruto is 220 episodes long and kids these days complain about M7 being too long. M7 is a frakin' cake-walk compared to a show like Naruto.

I guess some people just aren't that interested in the slice of life episodes that Macross 7 has (personally i love them), and instead wish it was shorter and more plot focused.

Regarding today's anime, yeah there's only a few shows started each year that go past the 26 episode mark. Today's viewers have it easy.

Edited November 8, 2010 by shiroth

[Jeff J]

I guess some people just aren't that interested in the slice of life episodes that Macross 7 has (personally i love them), and instead wish it was shorter and more plot focused.

I think the length problem was that there were just too many of those "slice of life" episodes, particularly early on in the series, and those early ones felt pretty repetitive. It's not totally atypical of anime series to start kind of slowly, but if you were watching the show during original TV broadcast, you would've had to wait about 3 months before they get into the main story arc. IMO, that's a bit of a long wait; even if you queued all the episodes consecutively, that's still more than 5 or 6 hours until you really start learning about the big picture.

[s001]

I feel exactly like you wastegate.

When I first watched M0 It was a bittersweet experience. I mean, the valks and the dogfights are incredibly stunning

(here comes the but) but by the end I wasn't even sure If I was still watching a macross show.

And all you M7 fans got to forgive me but I made it to episode 7 and then I just dropped the series.

Frontier did a better job for me, because it pays attention to the things that are important in the macross universe. The only thing I hated was Ranka's 5 minute explanation (on episode 25) about the vajra having feelings and all that crap. They could just said that aimo was a song that they learned from the protoculture guys that studied them.

BTW excuse my rough english. I'll take lessons. I swear! He he he.

[sketchley]

Clearly presented? Ok, let me spell it out for you my son:

I said "I doubt it's a minority, most of us just keep quiet because it's getting old" - This means we don't care anymore.

You said "The silent majority don't don't care for M7 one way or another"

No. You said, "As far as minority of 7 haters.......I seriously doubt it's a minority. Most of us just keep quiet nowadays because it's just getting old. "

Which, in your re-post despite being a long and arduous way to say that we all fundamentally agree, completely ignores the main thrust of my argument: posters should stop trying to polarize the debate into one of two extremes.

In other words: if you can't be bothered to care anymore, then you're not a hater.

I think a lot of us just feel unwelcome here now because the minute we spark up a personal opinion on 7, we get ripped to shreds.

IMHO, it's stemming from many members being tired of negative, baseless statements. Of course, one of the features of MW is being ripped to shreds for almost any post. So, I guess one should interpret that as people with negative opinions of M7 not being singled out any more or less than any other member.

Wastegate 13, my opinion, ignore all this crap and go ahead and watch 7 and watch MF. Formulate your own opinions and don't base them on what you've read here.

2nded.

Edited November 9, 2010 by sketchley

[azrael]

Let's just get back to hazing the FNG. *hint hint*

[peter]

No. You said, "As far as minority of 7 haters.......I seriously doubt it's a minority. Most of us just keep quiet nowadays because it's just getting old. "

Which, in your re-post despite being a long and arduous way to say that we all fundamentally agree, completely ignores the main thrust of my argument: posters should stop trying to polarize the debate into one of two extremes.

In other words: if you can't be bothered to care anymore, then you're not a hater.

IMHO, it's stemming from many members being tired of negative, baseless statements. Of course, one of the features of MW is being ripped to shreds for almost any post. So, I guess one should interpret that as people with negative opinions of M7 not being singled out any more or less than any other member.

2nded.

FFS, wtf don't you understand about what I was trying get across? Someone said that M7 haters is a minority, I disagreed that it was a minority. Why might someone think that M7 haters are a minority? Perhaps, because not that many people voice their opinions on M7? There used to be a lot of "voicing of opinions" around here, but most of us don't bother anymore cuz it's generally not worth the aggrivation (example: converstations like this one).

You got people around here asking for forgiveness for not finishing watching M7??? WTF??? S001, don't ask for forgiveness for having an opinion, you're entitled to like or dislike whatever the hell you want.....if wearing a pokadot thong to church on Sundays is your thing, go right ahead.......course, be prepared to get called out on it.

If you can't be bothered to care anymore, then you're not a hater. Not true. For the most part, I can't be bothered to write anything about M7....seems like I don't care right? Most of the time I don't care, I suppose. What do I think of Macross 7? I effin hate Macross 7. The worst anime I've ever watched. 50% of the footage can be cut out? Oh, easily. I just finished watching all 9 discs SDF Macross, and sure, it had some filler moments, but nothing close to 7. 7 was epic when it came to wasting time (ultimately, my time), but like a good little Macross fan, I sat diligently through it's entirety without skipping once, hoping that it would get better, as promised by the few here. It didn't.

Oi, Wastegate, have you started watching 7 yet? This is your thread and you wanted to know what people thought, let's find out if this whole topic had the answers you were looking for.

[Jeff J]

I just finished watching all 9 discs SDF Macross, and sure, it had some filler moments, but nothing close to 7.

A great thing about the original series is that filler episodes that didn't advance the story arc taught us a good deal about the characters, or progressed whatever relationships existed. I think 7 tried to do that as well, but those early episodes unfortunately ended somewhat repetitively: Basara acts rudely, flies in his VF-19, gets ticked off because nobody is listening to his song, and the flower girl missed a chance to give flowers to Basara. I'm all for episodes that are strictly about getting to know the characters. Likable characters make the series interesting, so even if it's 24 minutes of "a day in the life of" it can still be a great episode. Heck, "Phantasm" had very little new footage, but since it was one of the best dream sequences I've ever seen on TV, it's as enjoyable as any episode of the series.

This leads me to another question. Who liked Basara? I know if I ever met a guy like Basara, I'd probably hate his guts.

[peter]

A great thing about the original series is that filler episodes that didn't advance the story arc taught us a good deal about the characters, or progressed whatever relationships existed. I think 7 tried to do that as well, but those early episodes unfortunately ended somewhat repetitively: Basara acts rudely, flies in his VF-19, gets ticked off because nobody is listening to his song, and the flower girl missed a chance to give flowers to Basara. I'm all for episodes that are strictly about getting to know the characters. Likable characters make the series interesting, so even if it's 24 minutes of "a day in the life of" it can still be a great episode. Heck, "Phantasm" had very little new footage, but since it was one of the best dream sequences I've ever seen on TV, it's as enjoyable as any episode of the series.

This leads me to another question. Who liked Basara? I know if I ever met a guy like Basara, I'd probably hate his guts.

Global's Report was basically the only snoozer episode for me, I agree with you on Phantasm. I've had dreams about some of the events in Phantasm, and when I was a kid, I actually got confused and believed that the cockpit of tthe VF could detach and change into a plane on it's own. When I got older and revisited SDF Macross, I realized it was a dream sequence, a pretty cool one at that.

Don't get me started on Basara.

[akt_m]

The show was gorgeous no doubt but what the hell was going on with a giant birdman who eats a young native girl and then kidnaps her into space? One of my biggest attractions to Macross originally was its plausibility, even if the entire show was fantastic with space dogfights against a numerically superior army of alien clones, it was rooted in reality[b/]. Now I'm not against "magic" and other such fiction but I just felt like I was blind sided, almost betrayed by the franchise when the story took the turn that it did. I've not seen Macross 7 but I plan on downloading it soon and I'm hoping that by having already been surprised by Zero that I can enjoy it. Frontier looks promising to me and perhaps a little closer in spirit to the original. Anyone else feel this way? I invite you all to pick apart my posting and show me where and how I'm wrong.

WTF? Rooted in reality? Giant robots that transforms into airplanes?? A machine that can increase or decrese the body size?? Have you thought how absurd it does sound? it is more plausible that Belldandy (a goddess) can do it.

No root in reality at all.

Edited November 9, 2010 by akt_m