The Walking Dead

[EXO]

I'd be on team Rick because I would hate to travel and put up stakes with a group of people that would never go back for me if there was a chance of me being alive, or anyone I cared for for that matter. But that would probably mean our group would have a lot less chance of surviving. Shane would probably get the group there, but with everyone having more post traumatic stress syndrome after watching their loved ones thrown to the wolves or walkers.

[myk]

I'd go with Team Rick as well. Shane will cut your throat if it means he'll get by...

[SilentCrossHairs]

Team Shane for me. I like living. In the land of milk and zombies. The shotgun is king.

[myk]

Gonna have to watch episode 7 again. Even though I had already guessed what happened and seen the spoiler that last bit was pretty heavy...

[badboy00z]

I wonder if all that noise from the firing squad will attract walkers to the farm?

Will the next episode be a regular length episode or a 2 hour one?

Damn I hate these mid season breaks! lol

[myk]

I know right? Well as long as they don't pull a BSG I won't go Shane on anyone. I remember I moaned and complained when 'Dead ended last year and wouldn't you know it, a year had passed and on came season 2; it's worth the wait...

[Dobber]

Yeah, I'd deffinately be on team Rick. While I understand *SOME* of where Shane is coming from, I just fundamentally disagree with the Everyman for himself mentality he pretty much has. It's a slippery slope, and I could see that before to long he could turn into a tyrant......loosing all humanity and just doing whatever he wants to whomever he wants. By being like this you become more of the problem, things are already bad enough for survivors and it'll just make it all the harder to come back from if society ever reestablishes itself.

My theory's based using events from the comic.......spoilerish if you don't want to know what happened in the comic early on......

Shane will either become The Govenor or a Govenor like character. If you haven't read the comic see my description above. Or Carl will kill him, in the finale, in a similar manner as he did in the comic because he see's Shane trying to hurt one of his parents...either trying to kill Rick (which is what happened in the comic) or maybe attacking Lorrie again. Shane did, after all, tell Carl to protect his mother.

Chris

Edited November 29, 2011 by Dobber

[Omegablue]

Looking at the cast on IMDB and their episode count, it appears everyone will make it to the last Episode.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1520211/fullcredits#cast

Doesn't look like at this there will any new characters joining them?

In the early season 2 trailer, the prison was spotted for a second, so probably from there season 2 will end...

[Dobber]

Yup, that's why I think that IF what I said may happen to Shane, it'll be part of the finale.

Chris

[Omegablue]

Yup, that's why I think that IF what I said may happen to Shane, it'll be part of the finale.

Chris

Agreed. Still hoping to see Michonne and Tyreese to appear...

Edited November 29, 2011 by Omegablue

[Dobber]

I wonder if the comic character of Tyreese is being split between T and Shane on the show....particularly Shane. A lot of he and Ricks dynamic seem a lot like Rick and Tyreese's from the comic. Since Shane was long since dead at this point in the comic. Plus Shane's ideas for the group and his......"interactions" with Andrea remind me of Tyreese from the comic. Not necessarily specifics just in general.

Chris

Edited November 29, 2011 by Dobber

[Fly4victory]

I am in camp Shane just for Rick siding with Hershel. Like Rick said in episode 2 "the old rules don't apply".

Hershel was wrong the walkers are not sick people. They are reanimated dead. The brain dies and then the lower portion is reactivated but no higher functions.

The farm can only support X number of people. Food is being wasted feeding the walkers in the barn and Hershel's folks are collecting more. The walker population would be come too large to contain, control, or feed. Plus the risk of illness just from the rotting walkers holed up in the barn. What a bio-hazard that would make.

The farm is not a defend-able position. They can catch the onezies but a swarm would overrun the place.

Yeah, Shane could easily become a Governor like character but I doubt he will survive that long. Rick will have to off Shane that some point. Not because of the Lori pregnancy but because they represent the good and evil of power. Shane will do evil to serve a greater good or himself. Rick will do good to his own detriment.

Shane is loyal to Rick as former partners and he has the guilt from the episode 1 shooting and then abandonment. Doubt that Shane has any guilt about Lori but the pregnancy will be the catalyst for Rick and Shane to have it out. Rick will make a decision that Shane will perceive as a threat/risk to his "possible" unborn child and Rick will have to get rid of Shane and it won't be rooftop abandonment.

On lone wolves, Shane is smart enough to know that he needs a group. One for collective security and two diversions. The Merles of the group are for security. Alone, the first night you went to sleep you would be a zombie snack. There is no Wil Smith do it alone in this world. The old, slow, weak and children would serve as diversions if the situation required. During the web episodes, think it was "Step-mother" the EBS on the radio stated, do not offer assistance to anyone you do not know. The last word of central government is fend for yourself.???? That is grim.

Yes, after the shooting fest the farm will be overrun. The zombies will home in on the sound. The rules were established, noise, smell, sight of movement are the stimulus. Yeah, blunt trauma to the head works like a bullet and conserves ammo but why haven't these people silenced their weapons and unless it is an automatic they don't need a full power-load.

The barn would have burned down around the zombies and you would be left with walking toasties but if you could contain the walkers in a fire hot enough they would be incinerated. A zombie trap would be very easy to build... a big pit that they cannot climb out of, some bait and fuel oil.

[EXO]

Rick didn't really side with Hershel, rather he's just trying to appease H so that he can show that he can live by the farm's rules and H can allow them to stay. It's more political than it is sane. Rick knows full well that the walkers in the barn are a bad idea. Man it's lucky that glen walked into the correct barn door. Or else he would have been screwed, and not by Maggie.

I think shooting the walkers was more or less to do it swiftly so Hershel doesn't have to watch them bash their loved ones heads in. Also, that many walkers at the same time, I'm not sure if you want to take that long with each walker. Sometimes it takes 3 or more strikes with each one.

I don't think there will be any walkers attracted by the noise. For some reason walkers don't really make into Hershel's land so there must be some kind of natural or man made barrier that keeps them out. H was probably the 'get off my lawn' type old man before the apocalypse so he might have secured the perimeters to keep people out. They seemed OK with practicing shooting their guns that last episode.

[Fly4victory]

Glenn has the luck of the Irish.

They had target practice last episode and then this episode walkers are stuck in the swamp "again"??. Something attracted them.

That swamp acts as a natural barrier for that one approach but standard fencing wouldn't keep out a group of walkers. A board fence would be pushed over by the mass of the group and board fence with barbed wire same effect since the zombies wouldn't feel the barbs. Besides Rick, Shane and Otis just ran up to the farm.

Need something like a prison or the old Berlin wall.

Yes, bashing the lot would be difficult. A cattle run is required to keep them from moving and then you can wack away down the line.

Doing it quickly to spare Hershel's feelings is a waste of ammo. You called it, He is the type to hold a grudge. I can understand trying to stay on his good side not because of the farm but because of his surgical skills.

Doing it quickly so Hershel cannot stop it is a better reason.

Staying on the farm is just as bad as staying outside of Atlanta and is inviting disaster.

[EXO]

On the production side of it... I know... boooring... Frank Darabont mentioned there's some rules that AMC and the FCC (I think... not sure) places on them where it specifies what you can and can't do on screen. On the last Talking Dead they specified that they can't show a child being shot on screen in the same frame. So the Sophia shooting had to be editted in a certain way. And when Carol had to bash in her husband's head, it had to be editted to where they couldn't show her bashing more than once in the same shot. They thought it ended up being more brutal that they originally planned it but they were just going by the rules.

So, you can be right and there's a herd of Walkers getting ready to storm the barn, but at the same time I think they'll just blow it off. I do agree that the walkers will eventually find their way into the main farm area. It seems like one of the would likely get bit while patrolling the perimeter and we do know that the walkers have an instinct to go to familiar places.

[badboy00z]

I hate to ask this again but how exactly did Dale know that Shane shot Otis??

[myk]

He just "knows," from personal intuition, and recalling how he witnessed Shane almost blowing Rick away in the forest that one time..

[EXO]

He's going to address that on the next episode according to the preview...

In February... lol.

[badboy00z]

In season one episode 1 Rick tries to get gas and ends with him shooting the little girl, what point in time was that??

He's going to address that on the next episode according to the preview...

In February... lol.

Maybe his rifle scope is a 4-100,000 x 40 and he saw everything?? lol

[mrhillz]

I would have to go on team Rick too. I mean come on, Shane

didn't even make it past the first story arc

in the comics. I just don't agree with anything that Shane's been doing. Though, Daryl really seems to be a wild card, his character development is interesting figuring they made him just for the show.

[myk]

I don't LIKE what Shane's doing but there is an argument for it, which is survival. I'm with Rick but at some point your humanity and compassion can be what kills you. Rick and his type of people would rather die with their sense of ethics and morals intact than become as predatory and instinctual as a walker and I can see an argument for that as well...

[Omegablue]

I want a Team-Darryl shirt. Whines less than Rick and Shane and gets the job done.

[Zor Primus]

I'd have to say Team Shane too...going back to him leaving Rick. He didn't just ditch him. You guys should recall he stayed there literally until the hospital was overrun. He did his best to plead for him to wake up...and upon leaving he barricaded the door which by all appearances saved Rick when he did wake up. He led the group for many weeks and has been pretty right on with his opinions going back to the get from being against the rescue of Merle & to choosing the CDC over Ft Benning being wrong, the former taking the lives of a few survivors and separating others to go on their own. The latter also costing a life and really not accomplishing nothing more then a delay. And as they have not revealed what the doc whispered...yeah Rick's choices so far haven't been the best.

Shane's methods might not be kosher with today's world, but the question, "what would you do?" comes up all the time. Granted this infatuation with Lori will end up being his downfall, but only that.

Thought it sucked that Sophia was turned, was looking forward to seeing a parralel to the comic and have her develop a relationship with Carl...so much for that lol...however seeing Rick being the one to take the initiative and shoot her proves Rick can make the tough choices when needed. We'll see him harden more I think from here on out.

Finally, reading some of the comments, I'll throw another name in the hat for the "Governor" character...Merle. Think about it...his mentality is similar in the aspect of sadistic and evil. And well...considering his injury...eye for an eye right?

Edited December 1, 2011 by Zor Primus

[EXO]

This is the way I see Team Shane's travels ending up... I don't think it's a spoiler because I don't they'd ever take the series this way...

According to Shane Rick get will get bit by a walker because he's not made for this world.

Rick was going back for Glenn who they used as walker bait.

Shane refuses to go back for Rick but Daryl decided to go back for him anyway.

Lori, who has to take care of Carl, Andrea, Carol and Dale stay with Shane

Shane decides to move on and not wait for Daryl

Daryl and Rick never return

Shane puts moves on Lori

Lori, having already seen Shane's true colors rejects him

Shane goes crazy and tries to force Lori

Andrea in a jealous rage tries to stop Shane from hurting Lori

Shane shoots Andrea

Dale tries to kill Shane

Shane shoots Dale

Lori shoots Shane

Carol and Lori get eaten alive because there's not enough on their team to protect them

Carl becomes a walker

lol. I think in the right frame of mind Shane could have gotten them somewhere safe, but as soon as Rick returned he's never been stable enough as a leader. Rick became the leader because he always came up with the ideas and puts himself out there. He came up with the idea to put zombie crap all over him and Glenn and willingly walked into the herd in the first season. I think after that they were ready to follow him anywhere.

But of course from a viewers point of view Rick was stupid to let Sophia go back by herself. Maybe if there was 5 or 6 walkers in that scene I would have believed that was a necessary move but that scene wasn't believable to me.

[EXO]

yum

[Zor Primus]

yum

And this is definitely an example of an upgrade from the comic...

EXO, that scenario is scary, but we'll need to line up replacements after your massacre lol...

Edited December 3, 2011 by Zor Primus

[Daigoro]

I hate to ask this again but how exactly did Dale know that Shane shot Otis??

I'm surprised no one seems to have mentioned this, but I recall that Rick lent his revolver to Otis before they set out. After Shane shot Otis he wrestled the revolver away from him, and later returns it to Rick!

I haven't read the comics, but I thought this should have been a clear tip off that something was fishy about Shane's story. If Otis died holding off the zombies so that Shane could escape, how could Shane have gotten the revolver back? Did Shane expect everyone to believe that Otis willingly handed the revolver over to him _before_ making a last stand?

I thought at the time that perhaps this would be the slip up that would ultimately prevent Shane from getting away with sacrificing Otis, but Dale doesn't mention any of this, he just says he knows what kind of man Shane is...

[Fly4victory]

Knowing what Shane is and calling him out in-front of the group are two different things.

Both Rick and Shane owe each other and I would not want to try their respective loyalties in a survival situation.

Besides going to Benning may have been just as bad a the CDC. Everyone in Florida and Georgia would head to Benning. If Benning had responded quickly and made the right decisions, the post would be locked down and already full of civilians and I doubt able to take anymore. I doubt that the Army was able to figure out what to do at command levels since there are tanks littered about. Heat rounds, Hellfires, and MOPP gear wouldn't be very useful.

Not that it would help this band of bickerers wandering around the south but carrier battle groups, nuclear subs, and may be Hawaii would still be functioning, if at a reduced capacity, so not all civilization is lost.

If organized enough all you need are reinforced walled communities and houses built on stilts with retractable stairs. Even if the walkers breach the walls then the people are still safe.

All dead are to be cremated and all sick quarantined.

The problem could be controllable, since walkers continue to rot unless frozen at some point they will fall apart when their neuro and muscular systems are past some point of deterioration. This is a safe assumption since some walkers are more agile than others. Besides what happens when there is nothing left for them to eat.

Yet, like the title of the last episode hinted. "dead already", perhaps a clue to the whispered words.

[badboy00z]

How much does a walker have to rot for it to die completely?

I'm surprised no one seems to have mentioned this, but I recall that Rick lent his revolver to Otis before they set out. After Shane shot Otis he wrestled the revolver away from him, and later returns it to Rick!

I haven't read the comics, but I thought this should have been a clear tip off that something was fishy about Shane's story. If Otis died holding off the zombies so that Shane could escape, how could Shane have gotten the revolver back? Did Shane expect everyone to believe that Otis willingly handed the revolver over to him _before_ making a last stand?

I thought at the time that perhaps this would be the slip up that would ultimately prevent Shane from getting away with sacrificing Otis, but Dale doesn't mention any of this, he just says he knows what kind of man Shane is...

Otis still had his rifle and he probably had no more rounds in the python for it to be useful.

[EXO]

I'm surprised no one seems to have mentioned this, but I recall that Rick lent his revolver to Otis before they set out. After Shane shot Otis he wrestled the revolver away from him, and later returns it to Rick!

I haven't read the comics, but I thought this should have been a clear tip off that something was fishy about Shane's story. If Otis died holding off the zombies so that Shane could escape, how could Shane have gotten the revolver back? Did Shane expect everyone to believe that Otis willingly handed the revolver over to him _before_ making a last stand?

I thought at the time that perhaps this would be the slip up that would ultimately prevent Shane from getting away with sacrificing Otis, but Dale doesn't mention any of this, he just says he knows what kind of man Shane is...

that's a really good point. I wonder if it's going to come up. In reality though, if I was Shane, I'd just say that I ran out of ammo first and Otis gave me the revolver just before he sacrificed himself.

[Zor Primus]

How much does a walker have to rot for it to die completely?

There hasn't been anything concrete. Its accepted lore that zombies do eventually decompose completely. However at a much slower rate then a corpse. Apparently also it depends on the condition one is in and the environment the walker is in. A measuring bar might be the first walker Rick ran into. Take a look at the webisodes at the AMC site for more...don't want to go on without spoiling it for you.

[Fly4victory]

The webcast does show time lapse deterioration and implied effects of extensive damage.

Sadly, the pilot episode was removed from AMC because the first victim Rick sees in the hospital had been stripped down to the skeleton and was not walking... perhaps the brain was reanimated but there was no nervous system or muscles to provide propulsion.

[GU-11]

They're supposed to be in Atlanta in the summer, which means it must be sweltering. The walkers should have rotted really quickly.

[Fly4victory]

There hasn't been anything concrete. Its accepted lore that zombies do eventually decompose completely. However at a much slower rate then a corpse. Apparently also it depends on the condition one is in and the environment the walker is in.

Researching rigor mortis supports your theory that reanimated decomposition is different than that of someone uninfected.

Rigor "stiffening" sets in about 2 to 3 hours after death and then dissipates after 48 hours. The onset of rigor appears delayed and the dissipation seems to be prolonged by the apparent continued difficulty the walkers having moving.

On a more disgusting biological note, walkers consume and I would expect need to expel some type of waste or does the waste build up???? Either way it would add to the foul smell and make you wonder how a walker could surprise anyone other than those with an incredibly stuffed nose.

[Zor Primus]

The webcast does show time lapse deterioration and implied effects of extensive damage.

Sadly, the pilot episode was removed from AMC because the first victim Rick sees in the hospital had been stripped down to the skeleton and was not walking... perhaps the brain was reanimated but there was no nervous system or muscles to provide propulsion.

Rick didn't see a victim in the hospital, he sees a corpse. The first walker he runs into is the lady outside the park.