why not produce more new toys?

[valhary]

i mean we have a list of macross toys that not feel dificult to produce because talking a few parts to made a new toy for us macross universe

vf 0d

reactive armor

vf 1dragon

vf 1 lauch booster

armor for vf 1 gerwalk mode

convertion parts for made the vf 1ar, vf 1jr and vf 1sr

vf x4

vf 11target

vf 22b

yf 25

yf 27beta

that all that i can remember right now

[DrunkenPilot72]

While it may not be that difficult to create those valks, there is no guarantee that they'll be a high enough demand to offset their production cost. Yamato can't risk manufacturing a valk that won't sell and Bandai is content with the cash Frontier is bringing in.

[pud333]

While it may not be that difficult to create those valks, there is no guarantee that they'll be a high enough demand to offset their production cost. Yamato can't risk manufacturing a valk that won't sell and Bandai is content with the cash Frontier is bringing in.

Yeah, pretty much this, I figure.

I don't know if Macross has the fanbase to support the more obscure valks. Especially at the high end 1/60 versions. I can't speak for other Macross fans, but as a pretty recent Macross collector myself (just couldn't justify the costs in the past), I won't be spending any money on valks that aren't related to one of the main characters, and even then, I would pick and chose. (eg: never gonna get a Shin valk because I think he's a wussy). Maybe if I only collected Macross, it would be different, but between this, Gi Joes, Marvel Universe, DCUC, Transformers, and the various vintage lines I collect, I just don't have the funds.

[Mommar]

I guess I'm different. If I think something looks cool I'll buy it. I don't care if it's a "hero" valk or not. I couldn't even sit through Mac 7 but I bought Gamlin's 22 because I like the color scheme. Same with the 11C, never really saw them in action. I don't like the 11B color scheme but I love the 11C's. I actually bought two of them and I really want a third. I'm not fond of the Mac Zero designs but I'd get a 0D if they made one.

[505thAirborne]

The cost of tooling & production must be more difficult than we ever give credit for sometimes, we're just finally getting a 1/3000 DYRL SDF-1 yet no sign yet of the TV version. Both very popular items, especially the SDF-1 TV which everyone seems to want. So it maybe a while if ever before some of those Valk's on your list ever see the light of day. The high prices do make some purchases hard to get by as well. Good thing for models and customs kits!

However if either company (Bandai or Yamato) or a new one want to put out a 1/60 VF-2SS+SAP, out the comes the VISA Card asap!!!

[DrunkenPilot72]

However if either company (Bandai or Yamato) or a new one want to put out a 1/60 VF-2SS+SAP, out the comes the VISA Card asap!!!

Good lord at 1/60 that valk would be freaking huge

[Kicker773]

I think from a buyer's perspective we think a hundred consumers would be enough to make a toy company produce the item, but like what Daisuke said at the CON, in regards to Toynami not producing more enemy mecha's, if the demand isn't in the hundreds to thousands units then it isn't worth the risk.

[GU-11]

The cost of tooling & production must be more difficult than we ever give credit for sometimes, we're just finally getting a 1/3000 DYRL SDF-1 yet no sign yet of the TV version. Both very popular items, especially the SDF-1 TV which everyone seems to want. So it maybe a while if ever before some of those Valk's on your list ever see the light of day. The high prices do make some purchases hard to get by as well. Good thing for models and customs kits!

However if either company (Bandai or Yamato) or a new one want to put out a 1/60 VF-2SS+SAP, out the comes the VISA Card asap!!!

I hear you. I've been hoping for one since the first time I set eyes upon a picture of it.

[eugimon]

I think from a buyer's perspective we think a hundred consumers would be enough to make a toy company produce the item, but like what Daisuke said at the CON, in regards to Toynami not producing more enemy mecha's, if the demand isn't in the hundreds to thousands units then it isn't worth the risk.

I've only been saying that for years but nice to get some industry confirmation.

[Ghost Train]

Yamato still is only scrapping on the surface of the VF-1's potential. Remember, there are 16,777,216 total possible colors in the RGB system! (and that's just the livery).

[CF18]

Yamato still is only scrapping on the surface of the VF-1's potential. Remember, there are 16,777,216 total possible colors in the RGB system! (and that's just the livery).

Hay you missed the alpha channel. What? You don't think they can't learn from Bandai and release all kind of semi-transparent valks?

[m0n5t3r]

it would be cool for those obscure valks to me made but as it is it's kinda hard for a collector that has to work within a budget (like me) to keep up with the current and future releases and how effin' expensive these things are getting.

...waiting for the DX Monster price to go down a bit... still trying to justify getting that 1/3000 SDF-1... choosing w/c of the possible $200+ 1/60 VF-19s i will be getting... saving up for when the 1/60 VF-17 will be announced/released... etc, etc...

sometimes i think i may be sacrificing my kids' futures for a bunch of plastic toys! ... nah!

Edited October 14, 2010 by m0n5t3r

[mechaninac]

In answer to the question posed in the title: ECONOMICS

[Mog]

^^I'll add to the simple--but accurate--comment above: it's the current state of the economy.

The consumers tighten up their purse strings more than before. And our niche toy manufacturers have to be more cautious and move closer to "survival mode" to make it through these "tough economic times."

As much as I'm not a fan of those web exclusives and what-have-you, it makes good business sense for Yamato and Bandai to rely on these tactics until the times get better.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Mog

[valhary]

i agree with each point of view that all of you mention but if check the list there are only valks that need a few parts (in some cases only made one piece) to give us new vf and i think in the posibility that no sell a complete toy maybe only a convertion parts and let us decide if want it i suppose that reduce the cost both companies and customers

vf 0d (wings, cockpit 2 seats, cover cockpit, spoilers and head)

reactive armor (the vf 0s is already)

vf 1dragon (all the body of plane but the nose cone and cockpit is the same that vf 1)

vf 1 lauch booster (the vf 1 is already)

armor for vf 1 gerwalk mode (the vf 1 is already)

convertion parts for made the vf 1ar, vf 1jr and vf 1sr (head, gunpod and fast pack)

vf x4 (in the image you can see that made it only with reorder the parts and conbined with the fast pack of the vf 1)

vf 11target (cockpit)

vf 22b (wings)

yf 25 (head)

yf 27beta (nose cone and head)

and i missed the rocket launcher, weapon set for vf 0 and yf 19

[DrunkenPilot72]

i agree with each point of view that all of you mention but if check the list there are only valks that need a few parts (in some cases only made one piece) to give us new vf and i think in the posibility that no sell a complete toy maybe only a convertion parts and let us decide if want it i suppose that reduce the cost both companies and customers

vf 0d (wings, cockpit 2 seats, cover cockpit, spoilers and head)

reactive armor (the vf 0s is already)

vf 1dragon (all the body of plane but the nose cone and cockpit is the same that vf 1)

vf 1 lauch booster (the vf 1 is already)

armor for vf 1 gerwalk mode (the vf 1 is already)

convertion parts for made the vf 1ar, vf 1jr and vf 1sr (head, gunpod and fast pack)

vf x4 (in the image you can see that made it only with reorder the parts and conbined with the fast pack of the vf 1)

vf 11target (cockpit)

vf 22b (wings)

yf 25 (head)

yf 27beta (nose cone and head)

and i missed the rocket launcher, weapon set for vf 0 and yf 19

That list is fine except for the VF-4. While the fighter mode is just a matter of rearranging a Fast Pack loaded VF-1, the battroid mode would require all new parts to complete. The VF-4 cockpit folds in like the SV-51 or the VF-25, it isn't just sitting vertically like the VF-0, VF-1, or VF-11. The hip mechanisms would also need to be radically different to account for the new cockpit and the arms would need heavy retooling.

In the end, the legs from the VF-1 are the only part that could be used for the VF-4 and even then they would need to be modified to some extent.

[valhary]

i think there are a confusion i speak about the vf x4 that is a early prototype but different plane of the vf 4 until i know the vf x4 is not even transformable

[DrunkenPilot72]

i think there are a confusion i speak about the vf x4 that is a early prototype but different plane of the vf 4 until i know the vf x4 is not even transformable

Oh my mistake. If we are talking about a fighter only VF X4 then it is completely doable with spare VF-1 parts. While it would be feasible for Yamato to comes out with a VF-X4 kit, there is still the problem of consumer demand. Assuming that the VF-4 doesn't have a high enough demand to justify a new mold, would the much lower demand for the fighter only prototype even be worth the effort for a kit?

[505thAirborne]

Good lord at 1/60 that valk would be freaking huge

But it would be so frakking awesome!!!!

[azrael]

In answer to the question posed in the title: ECONOMICS OF SCALE

Fixed.

Manufacturing builds are normally cheaper when done in bulk. So unless you are planning on selling lots, the answer is no.

The VF-0D, as Graham mentioned in another thread, actually requires retooling over the majority of the VF-0 design. Yamato's response to Graham.

[mechaninac]

Fixed.

Manufacturing builds are normally cheaper when done in bulk. So unless you are planning on selling lots, the answer is no.

The VF-0D, as Graham mentioned in another thread, actually requires retooling over the majority of the VF-0 design. Yamato's response to Graham.

That is right, but economics of scale is but one slice of a much bigger pie. I used the broader, less defined term ECONOMICS advisedly: There are overhead considerations, materials cost, manufacturing costs, tooling costs, design and engineering costs, marketing costs, licensing costs, warehousing costs, business expenses costs, and the mother's milk of any industry... a healthy profit margin. All these economic parameters, and then some, play a role in the final decision to proceed with any particular project. I'm sure the folks at Yamato would love to produce many, if not all, of the myriad vehicles from the many Macross series -- I have a feeling they are fans too, but they also have the fiduciary responsibility to analyze the profit potential of each individual project and act in the best interest of the company's continued health; thus making the VF-19 FV makes sense, while a VF-5000, for example, does not... if they want to remain in business.

In the best of times when the economy is good and optimism is high, a company can take chances in product introductions that could be considered risky or indulgent (Yamato's Koenig Monster is a perfect example of this dynamic). But when the economic conditions in Japan and in the western world are as bad as they are currently and with no improvement in sight, who can blame them for playing it safe?

All that said, I'd sure love to be able to buy a 1/60 VF-4, VF-0D, and a few VF-2SS+SAP...

[valhary]

well what only think to say is if you already payment for the franchise should exploit at maximum

how many years bandai have macross license and did nothing

one day yamato get the rights and in the beggining have a new and fresh attitude and give us a lot of the best macross toys but right now feels that yamato follow bandai way

[Renato]

As much as I'm not a fan of those web exclusives and what-have-you, it makes good business sense for Yamato and Bandai to rely on these tactics until the times get better.

I don't see how they will get better from our perspective.

Let us say the economy improves significantly in a couple of years. That's a couple of years that the main target consumer will have aged. We have to remember that all of these products exist as a method of cashing in on nostalgia for a specific generation. Once that generation gets to a certain stage, there will be no more consumers. Frankly, I'm amazed it's lasted this long, but I wish older fans passed the torch a bit more, and younger fans would show some interest. Alas.

Girly figures seem to be doing quite well, though.

[azrael]

well what only think to say is if you already payment for the franchise should exploit at maximum

how many years bandai have macross license and did nothing

one day yamato get the rights and in the beggining have a new and fresh attitude and give us a lot of the best macross toys but right now feels that yamato follow bandai way

So if I spend money on overhead, materials cost, manufacturing costs, tooling costs, design and engineering costs, marketing costs, licensing costs, warehousing costs, business expenses costs, etc., etc., etc., and release that product to the public and the profit I get is less than the amount used to make it, would that be an effective use of the license? No. Not for me.

[anime52k8]

i agree with each point of view that all of you mention but if check the list there are only valks that need a few parts (in some cases only made one piece) to give us new vf and i think in the posibility that no sell a complete toy maybe only a convertion parts and let us decide if want it i suppose that reduce the cost both companies and customers

vf 0d (wings, cockpit 2 seats, cover cockpit, spoilers and head)

reactive armor (the vf 0s is already)

vf 1dragon (all the body of plane but the nose cone and cockpit is the same that vf 1)

vf 1 lauch booster (the vf 1 is already)

armor for vf 1 gerwalk mode (the vf 1 is already)

convertion parts for made the vf 1ar, vf 1jr and vf 1sr (head, gunpod and fast pack)

vf x4 (in the image you can see that made it only with reorder the parts and conbined with the fast pack of the vf 1)

vf 11target (cockpit)

vf 22b (wings)

yf 25 (head)

yf 27beta (nose cone and head)

and i missed the rocket launcher, weapon set for vf 0 and yf 19

[Mog]

I don't see how they will get better from our perspective.

Let us say the economy improves significantly in a couple of years. That's a couple of years that the main target consumer will have aged. We have to remember that all of these products exist as a method of cashing in on nostalgia for a specific generation. Once that generation gets to a certain stage, there will be no more consumers. Frankly, I'm amazed it's lasted this long, but I wish older fans passed the torch a bit more, and younger fans would show some interest. Alas.

Girly figures seem to be doing quite well, though.

I guess I could be an ass and post a photo of the Tread/Beta. It was more than 20 years after the anime aired before they finally mass-produced a large-scale Tread/Beta. So sometimes, patience has its virtues.

BUT you do have a point.

Now that I have a family, it's getting harder for me to pull the trigger on some purchases.

Unless it's one of my personal holy grails (such as TV-style SDF-1, a VF-17, or a VF-171), I'd have a hard time convincing myself to put down the funds for a Valk that I think looks cool but that I don't absolutely love.

For example, I think the SV-51 looks cool as hell, and if I wanted to, I could easily afford it. But I don't have the space for it. I don't have as much time as before to play with it or do what I'd consider a full-on quality photoshoot of it. And I doubt it'd give me as much joy as some of the other items I already have in my collection.

Guess I'm becoming more crotchety and picky in my old age! <smirk>

[Renato]

I guess I could be an ass and post a photo of the Tread/Beta. It was more than 20 years after the anime aired before they finally mass-produced a large-scale Tread/Beta. So sometimes, patience has its virtues.

I don't see how that example supports your argument more than it does mine, though. I just said all these products were based on nostalgia. The Tread didn't come out in the 80s because Gakken pulled out of the toy market as I understand it. Then it didn't come out in the tumbleweed-strewn 90s because there was no market which would support it, just like there wasn't one to support high quality Valkyrie toys, either. Yamato tested the waters with the Macross Plus stuff in 1999/2000, and the products eventually got bigger, more expensive, sophisticated, but eventually the market's momentum slowed back down again and now we're entering the tail end of things. You could have all the patience in the world and wait another 10 or 20 years but I highly doubt it's worth keeping faith that maybe in 2030 they will finally release some rare toy from an anime that only a handful of old-age pensioners remember.

This whole phenomenon correlates with our current life stages and you saying you prioritize your family is actually a great example of the reason things are slowing down now. Not that I blame you personally, of course! I cannot stress enough, our generation represents pretty much the whole of the "high-end valk market", and we peaked in spending power sometime around 2005.

[Mog]

Very valid points.

I do agree with you. I'd only argue that it probably peaked a few years later (say somewhere around 2007 or 2008?).

I'm curious though, for our community as a whole, is it more an issue of lack of ability (don't have as much discretionary income to purchase toys) or more an issue of lack of desire (changing priorities as we get older)?

I'm sure it's a combination of the two. But which of the two is the bigger factor?

As I posted earlier, personally, I know I have the ability to purchase a few of the high-end Valks. But the desire's not exactly all there.

On the other hand, if Yamato was to announce a TV-style SDF-1 priced at US$500, I'd be lying if I said that price wouldn't give me pause and make me think hard about a potential purchase.

[ae_productions]

Very valid points.

I'm curious though, for our community as a whole, is it more an issue of lack of ability (don't have as much discretionary income to purchase toys) or more an issue of lack of desire (changing priorities as we get older)?

There is the third factor, the financial one. I'm making about 1/10th of what I did in 2005, for the same amount of work. My industry is really suffering, and it's getting harder and harder to get by. Money is a HUGE issue for me, Because I only make a dime for every dollar I use to make. I just have less liquid cash for my toys.

[Mog]

^^With the way I set up the question, that would actually fall under the "lack of ability" category.

Whenever there's some sort of obstacle or limitation preventing you from buying more Valks (whether it's financial issues, lack of space issues, Yamato shifting towards more web exclusives, girlfriend/wife making an ultimatum , etc.), I'd qualify that more as a lack of ability. It's not an issue of you not wanting to buy more Valks. Rather, there's a tangible "something" (in your case, your industry's severe pay cuts) that prevents you from fulfilling that wish.

I'm sure there's no question you'd like to purchase more Valks, but the financial issues prevent that from happenning.

On the other hand, lack of desire comes into play when you could make that purchase (even if you would have to do some significant budgeting, planning, and saving), but your heart is just not in it anymore. Or less severely, you just don't have the same fire for collecting Valks like you once did.

To put it another way, is it more external pressures or internal pressures that keep us from buying more Macross goodies?

I'm not saying the two groupings are mutually exclusive. But to paraphase Michael Madsen's character in Kill Bill, Vol. 2, you've gotta feel one more than the other.

[ae_productions]

^^With the way I set up the question, that would actually fall under the "lack of ability" category.

Whenever there's some sort of obstacle or limitation preventing you from buying more Valks (whether it's financial issues, lack of space issues, Yamato shifting towards more web exclusives, girlfriend/wife making an ultimatum , etc.), I'd qualify that more as a lack of ability. It's not an issue of you not wanting to buy more Valks. Rather, there's a tangible "something" (in your case, your industry's severe pay cuts) that prevents you from fulfilling that wish.

I'm sure there's no question you'd like to purchase more Valks, but the financial issues prevent that from happenning.

On the other hand, lack of desire comes into play when you could make that purchase (even if you would have to do some significant budgeting, planning, and saving), but your heart is just not in it anymore. Or less severely, you just don't have the same fire for collecting Valks like you once did.

To put it another way, is it more external pressures or internal pressures that keep us from buying more Macross goodies?

I'm not saying the two groupings are mutually exclusive. But to paraphase Michael Madsen's character in Kill Bill, Vol. 2, you've gotta feel one more than the other.

The fact I can buy toys at all shows that I am VERY willing, especially considering I had to take a 90% pay cut.

[valhary]

well yes there a lot of factors that "justify" the lack of these valks but one thing that im pretty sure that yamato and bandai not consider is the "popularity" and i give you two examples the vf 2ss and the vf 171 im sure that we are in the presence of two big succesful products so the eternal question seems to be if that day will come

[arrow]

it's easier to justify buying a new valk rather than another of the same with just a repaint.

[DARKWIND]

it's easier to justify buying a new valk rather than another of the same with just a repaint.

True, oh so very true!!!

But if they can make it a worthy repaint then the chance on multi-sales go up almost exponentionally.

Case in point the CF/mass production version of just about any valk, esentially an "army builder" to bolster/fill your display case.

[ae_productions]

See, it's odd with those repaints.

I also collect Transformers, and man, I use to get so aggravated with their repaints.

But for some reason, I'm okay with it in the Macross / Mospeada universe.

Even with the yamato 1:60 Destroids. I had to get one of each variant. That's 8 toys from 2 molds. But I don't care. I love my Macross / Mospeada stuff. It just makes me happy. Repaints or not. Takes different strokes, I guess.