Macross Plus - interpretations of the ending

[sharky]

Guld assaulted Isamu and tried to rape Myung. I don't think he succeeded, from what we see he realized what he was doing right after he tore her shirt to pieces. It all happened in a matter of seconds, so probably Guld froze in disbelief for what he had done, Isamu ran to Myung and kneeled to protect and confort her, Guld then refocused and saw them there....

Guld sees them there again, assaults Isamu and tries to rape Myung. Guld sees himself in the mirror and freezes. Isamu runs to Myung and kneels to protect and comfort her. Guld refocused and sees them there again, assaults Isamu and tries to rape Myung. Guld sees himself in the mirror and freezes. Isamu runs to Myung and kneels to protect and comfort her. Guld refocuses and sees them there again....

It's a vicious cycle.

[Keith]

Clearly you all believe Guld raped Myung because that idea was planted there via inception.

[Dio]

Apologies for the thread resurrection, but the discussion in the Newbie/Short Questions thread brought the topic up and I felt like responding to it with some thoughts I've had for a little while on it now (since recently re-watching Plus myself).

I know the 20-year debate has always been "did Guld rape Myung," as though the only thing getting much consideration is whether he went that far or not, but several things don't add up to me when I try to look at the whole situation critically, most pointedly the 3-way resentment between the characters.

Summary:
Guld's snapping was a major part of the split, but Isamu being a self-absorbed jerk was also a major part of it, and was actually what precipitated the event that triggered Guld's break. I do not believe Guld raped Myung, but he did have a violent outburst that shattered their friendship at a pivotal moment.


What we have to go on (the "evidence," including circumstantial):

Myung seemed shocked at first when she ran back into Guld at Star Hill (naturally, given a violent event took place at the assumed time of their split), and was especially startled when he put his hands on her shoulders, but seemed to have much more venom for Isamu when he showed up. She was also consistently rather forgiving to Guld through the rest of the series. In the dub (which I don't believe strays too far from the original spirit of the dialogue), she accused Isamu of "[leaving her] behind on this little planet," which I think has more significance than I typically see brought up in this discussion.

Guld, on the other hand, never seemed to show much outright romantic or lustfully competitive interest in Myung, instead demonstrating a fierce protective instinct toward her as the way to show his affection. He referenced a past vow/promise that he would "always protect her," and her song on the little player was his good luck charm the entire time. He showed some smugness over their romantic encounter after the concert hall fire, but even then his bragging amounted more to "she's (and the project is also) better off with me than you," rather than any kind of perceived accomplishment on his own part. This isn't to say he doesn't have serious psychological issues, but I do think it doesn't paint the picture of a rapist. He doesn't try to isolate her from anyone else possessively, doesn't fixate on her or stalk her, and instead it always seems more about his perception that Isamu ruins everything he touches. He has rage issues and suppresses his fighting instinct with drugs, but losing control seems like it would manifest as an outburst of violence to destroy what sets him off, rather than forcing himself on someone he harbors an affection for.

He, like Myung, holds an intense grudge against Isamu over something in the past - which doesn't add up if he was the sole offender in the split, because a blackout rage moment would be very hard to write over with a specific memory of Isamu doing something equally heinous. He very clearly blames Isamu for something he does remember.

Isamu is no angel himself, he's clearly and consistently a jerk who just wants to fly planes and live one minute to the next (even going back to stealing and crashing Guld's school festival plane). Guld + Myung doesn't bother him in the slightest, but he would have to be a special kind of uncaring @$$ to not have any concern over a sexual assault victim being that close to her attacker, just from a common decency standpoint.

Guld's flashback begins with him walking in on Isamu and Myung together. In the first still, Isamu is comforting a crying Myung, but then in the next stills: Isamu gets up and walks away, Myung follows and pulls him back, they embrace but still look very sad. Guld rushes in, punches Isamu as Isamu pushes Myung out of the way, Guld follows Myung to the floor and grabs her shirt, pulling it and tearing it before the image in the mirror snaps him out of his memory. Earlier on, we had also seen an aftermath flashback of Isamu holding Myung in a torn shirt, looking straight at Guld.

Why was Guld dropping by in the first place, and why were Isamu and Myung upset before he walked in? I think this was Isamu's farewell moment, and it broke Myung's heart. Guld, walking in at the moment where he saw the object of his affection in tears over being spurned and Isamu leaving them behind, lost control and attacked Isamu, and then tried to forcibly take Myung away from the situation to a safe, isolated place (similar to how he took her away from the concert hall fire to her hotel room, rather than a hospital). The shirt got torn as she fought back to resist the abduction, and at that point he came enough to his senses (and Isamu probably intervened as well) that he could be pushed off.

At this point he burned the image into his subconscious memory of Isamu holding a battered Myung in his arms, but was in shock at his own actions and still in the fog of the moment as he left. Isamu and Myung couldn't accept that their best friend had that kind of violence in him, and understandably severed ties, but Isamu also stuck to his plan and left the planet shortly after, leaving Myung heartbroken and alone, and Guld with no other means of confronting the amnesia. 7 years of simmering on the memory of Isamu hurting Myung's feelings and running away (since it's unlikely they talked after the encounter), and Guld came to perceive Isamu as a hurtful and selfish coward, unaware of his own actions bearing a significant portion of the blame for the split.

I know the artistry of the scenes leaves much to the imagination of the viewer, but to me this scenario explains Myung's resentment toward Isamu, as well as her caution-tinged-with-pity (and even some forgiveness?) toward Guld. It also explains why the incident would go unmentioned for so long, rather than trying to reconcile keeping a rape secret for 7 years, and why Guld would have such animosity toward Isamu. Isamu remains a jerk, Guld is pitiable but still seriously flawed as well. Myung gets her heart broken, but in a way that adds up with the actions in the present.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Dio

[Roy Focker]

We've talked about this several times before.

One camp sees the flashback as literal retelling of the event and the other camp sees as something more surreal open to interpretation. Then both camps try to convince the others that they are right. No one ever succeeds in doing that. Everyone has a strong opinion on this and things get really heated.

Closing this topic just to maintain the peace.