Macross Frontier: Itsuwari No Utahime

[Mr March]

True, though there are always exceptions. I grew up on the theatrical cut of 1776, but vastly prefer the directors cut. I get what you're saying though. It's like how a restoration can look "wrong" (though a lot of times it is ). I just remember that cut having the best flow for the music, but then they added alot and couldn't really keep it (also hated the timing on "Frontier 2059" which was thankfully fixed for the BD).

Naturally. Which is why the best policy is to offer all originally available versions to the consumer so they can choose which they want. Like Ridley Scott does with his movies. If some audiences of questionable taste (hehehe) actually like that awful voice-over narration in Blade Runner, they should be able to watch it

Okay, I'm off the soap box now

[Keith]

I wouldn't mind your version, Keith, if it just wasn't so obvious to the contrary with her annoyance at him and attitude . It wasn't that big of an issue until she sort of 180ed and opened up in Star Date, then conversations tended to blow it out of proportion. Yadda yadda yadda, etc. etc. Like I said, the damage is long done, and the point's moot now. The new version is somewhat passe, but it works for pacing. Moving on.

No, I was talking about the movie version.

[Germán]

Wow! I see the movie and "Black and White Bunny" is so sexy!!!

But i love Ranka.

[Product9]

The films been out for four days, and no subs yet, what do you think?

I don't know. That's why I'm asking.

As for the Macross Cannon not adhering to the, uhh, 'grand canon,' I just figured it was one of those Vajra dimensional rift thingies. Like the one that stopped the nukes (and kept the ships out) in the final ep of Frontier. This of course raises the question as to how the Quarter can drive right on through to deliver its recycled animation attack.

Bear in mind even Battle Galaxy had to shoot its main cannon through the hole the Vajra created. This suggests even a Macross cannon cannot penetrate such a rift (from either side).

Edited October 12, 2010 by Product9

[frothymug]

I do believe they did say something about a dimensional shield or rift being down when the Quarter performed its melee attack on the juggernaut Vajra ship. That's what nullified the first shot from Battle Frontier's buster cannon. Remember that the Macross Cannon uses collimated superdimensional energy. Would make sense that the Vajra have the ability to nullify that very energy, since they themselves are superdimensional life forms.

[Product9]

I thought the shield went down as a result of Quarter's attack, thus allowing Battle Frontier to deliver the final blow.

Otherwise Quarter's attack would've been pointless, right? Or is that what you meant and I just misunderstood?

Edited October 12, 2010 by Product9

[frothymug]

I thought the shield went down as a result of Quarter's attack, thus allowing Battle Frontier to deliver the final blow.

Otherwise Quarter's attack would've been pointless, right? Or is that what you meant and I just misunderstood?

The latter.

I said that they mentioned that the shield was down after the Macross attack.

[Product9]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

So, that again raises the question as to how ol' George got passed the rift to begin with. I wish visual storytellers would be more clear about stuff like this. At least pretend they care about the consistency of their stories.

On a completely unrelated note, any of you cats use Multisim? I'm killing time as I run a simulation for an assignment, but man it's taking forever since I added a spectrum analyzer. Probably been running for about 15 mins and I've only gotten through 171 ms of circuit time...

[Seto Kaiba]

If I were to have a real gripe with the movie... it's with how ineffective the Macross Cannon was at first.

Just throwing this out there... but this wouldn't exactly be the first time we've seen a New Macross-class's battle section discharge its Macross cannon at less than full power. In Macross 7, it's explicitly stated that the Battle-7 needed at least 150 seconds of prep time before it could be fired at 80% of its maximum capacity if the Macross cannon's auto-limiter was disabled. If we work backward from earlier dialogue in that same episode, it appears that under normal circumstances it takes 320 seconds to prepare the gun to fire at full power. (Macross 7 ep16)

Based on the above and the observation that we never see the Battle Frontier charging its Macross cannon for more than a few seconds before firing, it seems logical enough to assume that they're being hasty about it and firing at very low power for various reasons. The canon stats would lend some support to this, since the movie has the Battle Frontier firing twice in a matter of minutes, and the spec says it needs 60+ minutes of downtime between firings (presumably meaning full-power firings). So... it's not necessarily an inconsistency.

So, that again raises the question as to how ol' George got passed the rift to begin with. I wish visual storytellers would be more clear about stuff like this. At least pretend they care about the consistency of their stories.

Okay, that I can't answer... the shield certainly isn't visible the way it was in the Macross Frontier series, so it's possible it was in a low power state or something in the absence of incoming fire.

[nexxstrait]

About the Macross Cannon and New Macross Battle carriers (7, 25, 21, etc): what's the purpose of having a rifle gun or a transforming battleship?

The original Macross had to transform to fire the cannon because during the first fold something broke. Ok.

The original plan for SDF2 before Megaroad was to have a non transformable ship. Ok.

Battle 7 can only fire the cannon while transformed, and things begin to get murky. I guess it's just cool to have a reeeeally big robot that fires a big gun.

In Frontier, however, Battle 25 CAN fire the cannon in ship mode, so why bother transforming?

I mean, I do really like the transformig ships, Frontier episode 25 was epic, but is there even a fake reason for them to transform to fire the cannon as in SDF TV?

Edited October 13, 2010 by nexxstrait

[Keith]

Think back to the original Macross. What happened when they tried to fire the cannon after the ship had been through 2 barrier explosions, taken a ton of flack, and had Kamjin charging at it? The damn thing blew itself up. Having an ejectable cannon ship + total 360 degree range is pretty handy. The fact that having a giant robot fire a giant gun in space looks cool is just icing.

[nexxstrait]

Think back to the original Macross. What happened when they tried to fire the cannon after the ship had been through 2 barrier explosions, taken a ton of flack, and had Kamjin charging at it? The damn thing blew itself up. Having an ejectable cannon ship + total 360 degree range is pretty handy. The fact that having a giant robot fire a giant gun in space looks cool is just icing.

You have a point.

Edited October 13, 2010 by nexxstrait

[lfhoule]

Just finished watching the movie a few minutes ago, and I had to de-lurk for a few moments. I have to say, I really enjoyed the movie. I like the fight scenes, and it was nice to place where in the movie the new songs went in, and as well it was nice to hear some of the "oldies" as well.As others have said, I want to wait for the fansubbed versions come out to make final judgements.

But I would have to say that a couple of scences that I fondly remember the most at this point centers around our (currently) cute and loveable resident Vajra lavra Ai-kun. If Vajra larva could talk, just how much smack would Ai-kun be giving Alto: not even 30 seconds into their first meeting, and Ai-kun has already inspected both of Ranka's "promised lands". And, to buck the "general" anime convention of the cute animal mascots/pets riding on their owner's heads or shoulders ... Ai-kun's spot is in Ranka's shorts! I know, that's about where Ranka's V-type virus is located in her body, but still....

Can't wait to see the shennangin's when Ai-kun's in stage 2.

[Major Focker]

Having an ejectable cannon ship + total 360 degree range is pretty handy. The fact that having a giant robot fire a giant gun in space looks cool is just icing.

hmmm... so if there were two macross-class sister ships and one had to limp away from the fight, it could first eject its gunship and ....

[nexxstrait]

Just finished watching the movie a few minutes ago, and I had to de-lurk for a few moments. I have to say, I really enjoyed the movie. I like the fight scenes, and it was nice to place where in the movie the new songs went in, and as well it was nice to hear some of the "oldies" as well.As others have said, I want to wait for the fansubbed versions come out to make final judgements.

But I would have to say that a couple of scences that I fondly remember the most at this point centers around our (currently) cute and loveable resident Vajra lavra Ai-kun. If Vajra larva could talk, just how much smack would Ai-kun be giving Alto: not even 30 seconds into their first meeting, and Ai-kun has already inspected both of Ranka's "promised lands". And, to buck the "general" anime convention of the cute animal mascots/pets riding on their owner's heads or shoulders ... Ai-kun's spot is in Ranka's shorts! I know, that's about where Ranka's V-type virus is located in her body, but still....

Can't wait to see the shennangin's when Ai-kun's in stage 2.

You should have lurked a bit more

(just kidding)

[frothymug]

The dimensional barrier was neatly shrinkwrapped around the Vajra battleship's hull. You can see it when it absorbs the first shot from Battle Frontier.

Let's just say that the Pin-Point Barrier attack is unstoppable! Technically, PPB is the same energy as a dimensional barrier. Fight fire with fire, and what do you get? A whole lot of "bitchin'!"

[azrael]

About the Macross Cannon and New Macross Battle carriers (7, 25, 21, etc): what's the purpose of having a rifle gun or a transforming battleship?

The original Macross had to transform to fire the cannon because during the first fold something broke. Ok.

The original plan for SDF2 before Megaroad was to have a non transformable ship. Ok.

Battle 7 can only fire the cannon while transformed, and things begin to get murky. I guess it's just cool to have a reeeeally big robot that fires a big gun.

In Frontier, however, Battle 25 CAN fire the cannon in ship mode, so why bother transforming?

I mean, I do really like the transformig ships, Frontier episode 25 was epic, but is there even a fake reason for them to transform to fire the cannon as in SDF TV?

A greater arc-of-fire without the need to use verniers to move the gun. Moving it on a turret is much better than moving the ENTIRE ship. The 2nd being the more important factor, connecting the gun to the main reactors. While the Gunships of the Battle class can fire independently and in ship mode, their output is reduced because the Gunships are using their own power systems. By connecting them to the main ship reactors, they can speed up the re-fire rate and increase the output. Like VFs in fighter mode where power is diverted to the engines, power is dedicated to the engines in ship mode for the larger vessels. When transformed, power that originally went to the main engines can be diverted to offensive and defensive systems.

[network19]

In theory could the movie receive an update on the PS3 that adds english text for the game and maybe english subs for the movie since it is also treated has a game.

In theory of course.

[shiroth]

In theory could the movie receive an update on the PS3 that adds english text for the game and maybe english subs for the movie since it is also treated has a game.

In theory of course.

I know it's possible for a game, though not 100% sure for a Blu-ray. It just sounds like one of those things we fans would like, though shall never see.

[D' only]

Just finished watching it. It's ok, but it seem like everything is not as smooth as it could been. It's good to see that "Shelly" knows more about her heritage.

[shiroth]

You're in luck. The Blu-ray is region free, says so right on the back of the package.

Is this true, i mean i'll have no trouble playing the Blu-ray even though it's the wrong region? Has anyone checked for sure?

[Lobizon]

You're in luck. The Blu-ray is region free, says so right on the back of the package.

Is this true, i mean i'll have no trouble playing the Blu-ray even though it's the wrong region? Has anyone checked for sure?

Yep! the Blu-ray is region free

[Marzan]

Yep! the Blu-ray is region free

Aaakhhh, I got the DVD because it's almost impossible to unlock blu ray players and now it turns out that the Blu Ray is regionfree...

[sharky]

<<<<<<<<<<<Um, in case anyone was wondering I really liked Sheryl's opening concert.

[Keith]

Aaakhhh, I got the DVD because it's almost impossible to unlock blu ray players and now it turns out that the Blu Ray is regionfree...

Always bet on blu!

[BlueMax]

I was pretty much amused by Bandai's not-so-subtle plug for their SOC line. Basically, most of the Mac-F toys there already have been realeased, save for the Cheyenne 2. Release it Bandai!

[Bri]

Finished the Blu-ray yesterday evening. I'm very happy with the way the movie turned out. The pacing is faster then in the TV-series but it did not feel rushed to me. I like that they established Ranka, Alto, Michael,Luka and Klan as an already pre-existing group of friends. This fixed many of the problems I saw in terms of character connections and motivations from the early TV-series. Sheryl, no longer mentor/support character turned rival, is now introduced as the exciting wild-card. On the whole, character progression felt a lot more natural to me. With the focus more on Sheryl, Alto is no longer the self-centered main protagonist but more a friend. Making him a lot more sympathetic. The visual quality is turned up a notch with the movie often having fantastic backgrounds. The CGI are nicely integrated for the most part.

The only issue I have with the movie, is the way the characters don't seem to blend in with the background. Somehow the colors and lighting don't seem to work well. This is very noticeable when you compare Itsure no Utahime to other movie/film productions like Rebuild of Evangelion and Garden of Sinners where the blend of character and background is extremely good.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

No, I was talking about the movie version.

Sorry, I must've read it wrong, but yeah, I prefer the movie version too.

Glad to see I'm not the only one that caught the further mangling of Sherilu's name, D' Only.

Naturally. Which is why the best policy is to offer all originally available versions to the consumer so they can choose which they want. Like Ridley Scott does with his movies. If some audiences of questionable taste (hehehe) actually like that awful voice-over narration in Blade Runner, they should be able to watch it

Agreed, thought keeping it to one version to begin with would be nice. Still, Lucas could learn a thing or two from Scott or even his buddy Spielberg.

Subs are out, real discussion should be picking up. Yes, theoretically, they could add subs as a Blu-ray live download, I think.

[veffidas]

I've skimmed the major sections of the movie (I've yet to have time to sit down and watch the entire thing), but I'm surprised it was panned as it was by early reviews (e.g. Otaku2.com). Itsuwari No Utahime is a pretty much near-faithful derivation of Do You Remember Love? with slight elements of later Macross works.

Do You Remember Love? parallels:

• Streamlined relationship for group of friends: Roy, Hikaru, Max, Hayao - Klan, Alto, Michel, Luca.
  
• Focus on main love traingle and characters: Hikaru, Misa, Minmay - Alto, Sheryl, Ranka.
  
• Interruption of the heroine's concert: Minmay - Sheryl.
  
• Saving the heroine(s) brings the hero (further) into the armed forces: Hikaru saving Minmay causes him more interaction with Misa/UN Spacy - Alto saves Sheryl/Ranka and joins S.M.S.
  
• Hero goes on date with heroine who is wearing an obviously lacking disguise: Hikaru and Minmay - Alto and Sheryl.
  
• (Three) "spies"/"ambassadors" (prelude and) provide information that results in the main battle: Warera, Loli, Conda - Grace, Sheryl, (Brera).
  
• Near death experience of one half of the secondary couple: Milia - Michel.
  
• The two main heroines recognize the other in a meaningful manner at the end: Sheryl and Ranka - Misa and Minmay.
  
• Shower scene with frontal nudity: Minmay - Grace. (Only the second most important parallel.)
  
• Final song (sequence before ending credits) is preceded by the sound of feet running up flights of stairs: Hikaru - Sheryl. (**The most important one.**)
  

Some elements from other Macross Series:

• Extravagant concerts (Macross Plus): Sharon - Sheryl.
  
• Tailing of a main heroine (Macross 7): Brera on Sheryl/Ranka - Michael on Mylene.
  
• Overprotective parenting (Macross 7): Ozma with Ranka - Milia with Mylene.
  
• Person overly concerned about broadcasting Song Energy (Macross 7): Dr. Chiba - Grace.
  

The only real major elements of Do You Remember Love? I thought were missing from Itsuwari No Utahime were Roy's death and the Protoculture history lesson. The Vajra history lesson is likely to come in the next movie, but Ozma is unlikely to face death due to his parent-like relationship with Ranka.

(Sarcastic) Conclusion:

The only thing preventing Itsuwari No Utahime from being a DYRL-class movie was the lack of Ozma' death. Ozma should've died!

Edited October 25, 2010 by veffidas

[veffidas]

(Meant to edit above instead of reply, but I'll add a further comment.)

To provide a real conclusion as to why Itsuwari No Utahime (and by implication Macross Frontier) aren't necessarily as well liked as Do You Remember Love? (and SDF: Macross), in my judgement, I believe Macross Frontier relied too heavily on exaggerated archetypes. Macross and DYRL has more mundane yet relatable characters; the characters fit the mold of the average joe/jane. Those of Macross Frontier are romanticized celebrity characters that everybody enjoys fantasizing/dreaming about but simply aren't "us" (the average person); consequently, while entertaining, there's a little less of a sincere emotional connection with the Frontier characters/series.

Edited October 25, 2010 by veffidas

[Keith]

Spoiler alert, Ozma won't die, but Michel will!

[Raptor One]

Watched it with subs last night. It was a lot of fun. The new scenes were really well done, especially the Sheryl/Alto stuff and to a lesser extent the Ranka/Alto stuff. Even that new scene with Michael and Alto lol. Also the scenery was really beautiful, those shots of the country side and the shots of the dome where you could see what was happening outside were really nicely designed.

The only thing that felt off to me was that some of the action scenes seemed a bit choppily edited. Like when Alto dives to save Sheryl at the first concert it kinda just cuts from him diving to him stopping with her in his arms. Same thing with when he was falling towards the end and guided the valk to save them. In one frame the cockpit is opening and slowly catching up to them and in the next he's already in the cockpit and syncing with the controls. Also some of the action sequences towards the end were a bit hard to follow. Still pretty epic though. The story seems to have changed a lot so I wonder where they will go from here.

[VF5SS]

what's up with all the Segways

seriously

[Beltane70]

I just finished watching this movie this evening. I originally intended to just watch the first few minutes of the movie to see if the copy I downloaded would work properly. Instead, I got hooked and finished the whole film in one sitting. I can't wait until I see the second film.

I'll definitely be buying the Blu-ray next month when I'm in Japan.

[BlueMax]

Animation wise, I am quite impressed by the new backgrounds as well as the additions to the existing stock footage, especially during the opening. I can imagine, watching it in the cinema and being wow-ed by the scenes of the ships of the Macross Frontier Fleet going past as the camera closes in on the Frontier Fleet's battle Frontier and Island 1.

However, as far as character animation goes, I am a little disappointed. Maybe it was to ensure consistency with the TV serie's character animation quality since the quite abit of stock footage was used from there as well. Of course, that means that the character models maintained the series' quality, which while pretty ok for a TV series, makes this movie look as if it is released direct-to-DVD type of movie. Of course, the good news is that it maintains its consistency mainly throughout the movie, unlike the series, especially episode 8, where the animation quality takes a serious nosedive.

Thus, putting storytelling and pacing aside (which I shall not comment on, not at this time anyway), I feel that although I have enjoyed this movie, this movie will not be the classic that DYRL will be for Macross or what Transformers the Movie (1986) is for Transformers G1 series. Of course, maybe the 2nd moview will improve on this aspect, but it is to become anything near a classic, it will have to depend on solid storytelling to cover what the character animation can't achieve for this movie.

Just my 2 cents.