Macross Frontier: Itsuwari No Utahime

[shiroth]

Hmmm maybe someone could start a new thread on the movie, since previously this thread was for the news and the all the waiting, and since it's already on torrent I guess in a matter of days people would start discussing about it.

So here we have the disucssion thread. I've browsed the raw a little bit this morning, and so far all i can say is

Ranka's Natto commercial is terrifying.

[Tochiro]

So here we have the disucssion thread. I've browsed the raw a little bit this morning, and so far all i can say is

Ranka's Natto commercial is terrifying.

If by terrifying you mean its the sexiest scene ever committed to celluloid - then I concur. ;-)

[Keith]

If by terrifying you mean its the sexiest scene ever committed to celluloid - then I concur. ;-)

Damn I can't wait to get my copy!

[Renato]

OK. Having read the first two posts, I now know that this is not a thread I want anything to do with. Shame, really, because I wanted to check out what people thought of the extras on the BR/DVD before I decided if it was worth the purchase.

[Repiv_Onex]

Just finished watching the dvd raw version on my tv. I'm too lazy to post a review or anything long, thus in short:

1) Just as mentioned before, battle scenes only in the begining and ending of the show, in between the show there are Zero action.

2) The battle scenes aren't grand, I'm not saying that they are bad(neither do I say they are not bad), they are just not as grand as the series.

3) The songs didn't go well with the battle like it did for the series.

4) I like the art in the movie. Background, Characters, CGs etc. Details are good, too.

5) I'm not saying it's bad, but I just don't like the script, as compared to how the original Macross series were made into DYRL, I like the way how DYRL was made.

6) Somehow I didn't feel the excitment or enjoyment while listening to the songs in this movie. It's not well arranged in the movie asc compared to the series I guess.

Pardon my English.

Oh, and the trailer for the 2nd movie at the end of the credits shows

V F 1

[nexxstrait]

5) I'm not saying it's bad, but I just don't like the script, as compared to how the original Macross series were made into DYRL, I like the way how DYRL was made.

DYRL, compared to the TV series, wasn't really a scripting masterpiece either.

[Gubaba]

DYRL, compared to the TV series, wasn't really a scripting masterpiece either.

Dem's fightin' words.

[Strumvogel]

Dem's fightin' words.

Granted, one has to admit DYRL gave us the greatest Macross song ever.

Nothing can ever hope to live up to that, as much as we wished for it.

[Tochiro]

OK. Having read the first two posts, I now know that this is not a thread I want anything to do with. Shame, really, because I wanted to check out what people thought of the extras on the BR/DVD before I decided if it was worth the purchase.

Awww, you're no fun at all. Natto in your FACE man! :-p

-And of the three pillars of any Macross production - song/valks/love triangle, Frontier always focused much more on the song and love triangle aspects, not the valks (I suspect this is a rebalancing of Kawamori's chi, since Zero put nearly all the emphasis on the valks and was essentially mecha pron). I dont see why anyone would expect there to be MORE action in a condensing of the Frontier storyline?

And Obelisk was awesomely suited to the first half of the final battle imo.

[Seanzilla]

I just got done watching it here at work thanks to the links provided in the other topic by Sketchy. (I must be a crappy employee, the last two days it was the Ranger's playoff games against Tampa, and today Macross Frontier consuming my time away from being productive)

I have to say that my understanding of the Japanese language is limited to what I have learned watching Godzilla films over the years and of course Macross. But even with that, I absolutely loved the movie. Even the middle section with the character development was well done, as the story was somewhat different from the series. They had to re-establish a whole new story structure, and to me it worked. I liked the twist of Sheryl being a potential spy, and the events that transpired because of that belief. Also Alto's new connection with Sheryl when he put on the earring.

I loved the songs at the end as well, from both girls singing Diamond Crevasse to Obelisk, to Lion. Still missed Eien (Eternity/Forever) though. I swear, I didn't hear it anywhere??? Nor Isolated now that I think about it.

Overall, I now have a buring desire to go back and rewatch the series again.

[nexxstrait]

Granted, one has to admit DYRL gave us the greatest Macross song ever.

Nothing can ever hope to live up to that, as much as we wished for it.

Zero-G love?

Ok, forget anything I say today .

BOT, Can't wait to see the movie, since I did almost enjoy the series.

Edited October 8, 2010 by nexxstrait

[shiroth]

OK. Having read the first two posts, I now know that this is not a thread I want anything to do with. Shame, really, because I wanted to check out what people thought of the extras on the BR/DVD before I decided if it was worth the purchase.

Well seeing as though i ordered the Blu-ray that won't play on my player because of region, i can't help you there. :3

[ATLMYK]

Well seeing as though i ordered the Blu-ray that won't play on my player because of region, i can't help you there. :3

It really was a coupe for the anime lovers here that US and Japan were put in the same region when the powers that be of media divided up the global markets. Would be interesting to know why a sliver of asia was put in the same region as North and South America.

[frothymug]

Okay, so before I post my pros and cons of the movie, are we instituting a mandatory spoiler tag on such statements? Or are we just gonna say "If you clicked this topic, you should have expected to see some spoilers"?

[nexxstrait]

Oh, and the trailer for the 2nd movie at the end of the credits shows

V F 1

You mean this?

[azrael]

Okay, so before I post my pros and cons of the movie, are we instituting a mandatory spoiler tag on such statements? Or are we just gonna say "If you clicked this topic, you should have expected to see some spoilers"?

Hmmmmm...Let's keep spoilers on through the weekend. That should be enough time.

[akt_m]

Didn't like that much the songs made for the movie.

[azrael]

Yeah, the songs didn't work for me x-number of months ago and they weren't working now. The film's pacing was good and the plot was consistent. CG definitely felt cleaner.

Now for the spoiler-filled rant and praise...but mostly rant:

-Cel/CG reusage ran rampant. M-1/4 doing the Macross Attack on the Vajra ship...you can change the background, you can change the way M-1/4 looks, but you couldn't use a new ramming sequence? They didn't even change the interior shots between the Vajra ship vs. Galaxy.

-Klan being in high school doesn't feel right.

-Something about jumping to the ending fight didn't feel like it flowed. It worked but something about it irked me.

-In Gundam, fighting in a colony is usually frowned upon. But fighting inside Island-1???? With the amount of action there, I'm surprised they didn't abandon-ship.

-Like the new interaction with Sheryl+Alto but the back and forth between her and Ranka with Alto didn't work well with me.

[Tobi54]

Saw it yesterday, I dont understand japanese so this should be a pretty spoiler free post.

From what I saw the movie looked very good, the backgrounds look amazing, CG was improved, looked like not only did they increase the poly count on the models but used more complicated lightning as well, choreography was strong, not just on the dog fights, but action sequences as well, I love how dynamic the camera is in certain sequences, only problem I have with the dog fights is the Valks posing for the camera, does it look cool? yes, but it feels forced IMO, you see them shooting, but you dont see what they're shooting at, feels out of context, only thing I'd say is a low point is inconsistency with character animation, it's nowhere near as bad as it got with the TV show, but it's still there, especially if you put them right up against incredibly detailed backgrounds, which I really cant say enough good things about, they look that good. Obelisk was a really poor choice for the battle sequence at the end IMO, it would have been better if it switched places in the movie with Universal Bunny. As far as the editing, someone said it wasnt as good as the TV show, I agree, I think they pulled off a much better job with EP25, than they did with the third act of the movie, considering the amount of music EP25 had. Overall I was pleasantly surprised, I had read a few coments from people that got to see it in Japan, and the movie turned out to be better than expected, I cant wait to see what they do with the sequel.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Tobi54

[Seanzilla]

^ I can see the final battle in the second movie being more like episode 25 though. By that time, Ranka will have been established as a major pop singer, add in Sheryl, and I bet they have a new version of that Nyan Nyan Service Medley but with the songs from the two movies.

[frothymug]

Okay, I guess I'll go ahead and start listing my likes and dislikes for the sake of discussion.

Pros:

I really liked how they changed the relationships between Alto and Ranka and Alto and Sheryl. Ranka seemed much more real and desireable in the movie than in the series. Being good friends with Alto from the start really put a positive spin on their relationship together and she was much more comfortable around him, even giving him some emotional support when he was in a bit of distress. Sheryl was less of a bitch at the beginning, contrasting with her attitude in the series. She melded much better with Alto and it was easy to see how Alto was falling for her so much more quickly.

Brera was actually not being a complete dick the entire series. His new outfit was very cool. I lol'ed when he was scanning Sheryl's body for injuries and she goes "Cut that out!"

I actually loved the concerts, especially the one with the clockworks. It had a Sharon Apple feel to it, since there was one quickie scene from Plus where she was surrounded by several osscilating gears. The duality of her characters in the concert was an interesting twist, although they could have done better without the T&A in your face. I LOVE the outfit her angelic character wears. The end concert was kind of interesting. I can see why some people wouldn't like it, though.

The new Vajra bug and battleship designs were pretty cool. Fight coreography was up to par, although there were a couple of nuances that bugged me. I'll get into those in the "cons" section.

Cons:

I am so sick of being bombarded by Alto, Ranka, and Sheryl! I very much appreciate the development of other characters while the series moves forward. Honestly, those three are kind of boring to me. I like Sheryl somewhat, but Alto and Ranka are just normal kids, imo. I want to see more Ozma/Cathy and Michael/Klan. It's too bad Nanase wasn't in the movie, cuz I'd like to see a little bit of Luca/Nanase... but I can live without it. Basically, you have a battle scene, 1 1/2 hours of Alto, Ranka, and Sheryl, and then another battle scene... poof! It's over. The other characters just pop up from time to time to throw in less than their two cents.

The recycling of SOOOO much animation really started to upset me towards the end of the movie. Both cel and CG were horrendously overused. To me, it just screams "laziness" when they can't reanimate these scenes. This movie is making billions of yen and they can't spend the time and money to reanimate them? Sure, a non-fan wouldn't care, but this movie is obviously made FOR the fans and I'll tell you why I think so.

The story was pieced together poorly because it would be impossible for someone who hasn't seen the series to know what the hell is going on. Literally, I'm watching this movie and complaining about the sequencing of the scenes. It's like they want to transition them, but for shortage of time, they just let the fans do the thinking for the movie. You get from point A to point B in an instant, not explaining how you got there, but because you've seen the series, you know what happened in between those two points. It's never actually put into the movie. Also, the story was basically the same, with some minor details changed. Overall, there was not much difference to the events of the series.

The music track at the beginning of the movie was SO Independence Day. C'mon Yoko, you're better than that.

The fanservice at various points always deducts points from my scorecard. I don't need to see suggestive images and scenes in order to be entertained. I want a good story, with good characters, and lots of action. Fanservice from characters always makes me think less of that character... and of the writers.

I'm sure I missed a few things here and there, but this is what I could think of at this time. Although I will watch the movie again when the fansubs come out, I'm probably not going to glean a whole lot more out of it then.

Edited October 9, 2010 by frothymug

[Mr March]

Just finished and found the movie very entertaining. I knew what to expect going in, so I was pleased with the retelling of the series. In many ways, contrasting the Macross Frontier Movie to the Macross Frontier TV Series is much like the similarities between the Macross Plus Movie and the Macross Plus OVA. I suspect I'll end up preferring various parts from each iteration of Macross Frontier (TV series and Movies) much like that of Plus and pine for an edit that includes everything I like. I haven't re-watched the series since it first aired, so coming back to Macross Frontier via the movie was a welcome experience. The new animation seamlessly integrated with the older animation and it was great to see many of old TV series scenes either redrawn or refinished with superior artwork.

I enjoyed many of the altered story elements, like the injuring of Ozma, the new introduction of Brera into the story (plus his VF-27 appearance) and the earring allowing Alto to learn of Sheryl's past. I also especially enjoyed a lot of the new CG mecha action. I found they utilized several far more dramatic and dynamic angles when depicting the mecha, especially the battle with Ozma vs. the Red Vajra and of course the Tornado Pack on Alto's VF-25F Messiah. The Macross Quarter battle was also particularly well done and I liked the reveal of a new Vajra warship. Watching the movie version has also reminded me how much I enjoyed the Frontier series and has got me really stoked for the second film.

I will say that in spite of enjoying the movie, I would have preferred a more radical retelling and redesign of the characters, mecha and sets. Perhaps it's just being spoiled by DYRL?, but given the time and money put into these productions it would have been nice to go a different route.

One aspect of the film I found very off-putting was the ridiculous vampire imagery. Sheryl being bitten by her holographic doppelganger, Alto sinking his teeth into Sheryl's arm, etc. These visuals are very out of place in something like Macross. While it may just be nothing more than coincidence, I can't help but think the popularity of "Twilight" is rearing it's ugly head within Japanese pop culture.

Also, I agree with whoever criticized Klan's inclusion in the Mioshi school. It's such a random placement for the character and feels much like an afterthought just to include her in the story early so the audience can be aware of who she is. A much better introduction could have been made.

Questions:

During Grace's shower scene, is she talking to her co-conspirators on the Macross Galaxy? If so, this sets up the conspiracy much better than it did in the series.

Overall, this first film makes a great addition to the Macross Frontier story. I can see myself likely rewatching the two movies more than the actual series simply because the editing and story is that much more focused. I'd say 4 out of 5 for me.

[Killer Robot]

I find this quite interesting, though I'm going to wait for a fansub before I pass real judgements on more than the visuals. On the non-spoiler side, the new visuals are amazing, though it's sad that some of the recycled animation isn't as strong as it could be. I admit the TV show looked good enough that it didn't need a whole redesign DYRL style, but I wouldn't have complained either. And from what I can see of story changes, it looks like there are two categories: things that needed compressed due to time, and things that they had time to re-evaluate and fix up some. The TV show had a lot of seat of the pants writing where something later on could have been set up much better if it had been thought of earlier - the movie both being done as one piece and also being done after the story had been completed once allowed some "if we could do it all again" approaches. Ranka and Sheryl both get some interesting new developments and presentation. As for some more specifics on first impression:

Nanase being gone and Klan at the same school seems to be one of the first category. Less time needed to introduce her as in the circle of friends, and Nanase I hate to say was a bit superfluous anyway. But still it seems a bit rushed and it's odd seeing Klan tossed into the school. It could have been handled better, I'm sure.

Brera was definitely the latter. Having him actually involved in Sheryl's arrival and entourage made his presence more sensible in his first thirty seconds of movie than he was in his first several appearances in the TV show. Similarly, having overt suspicion about Galaxy and about Sheryl made things feel much more random in the early phases. I understand the TV writers' desire to maintain more mystery, but I think they played it too hard there.

Relatedly, it was good to have things clarified in this take that Sheryl did know who her grandmother was at least, if obviously not all the details of her family's past and the plot so far. Also, her version of Aimo was thankfully better than the TV soundtrack one.

I liked the retake of Sheryl's fall on stage: it also was interestingly different seeing her caught in the middle of the battle, and her understandable reactions besides.

Going more into the inglorious beginning of Ranka's career was a lot of fun too. Ranka knowing Alto to start also makes a different, and more interesting, relationship dynamic for them.

As for the bad, I'll reserve saying the bad until I've seen it subtitled and can say how much of my first impression is just my missing things. Though I'm baffled by the common complaint about this movie being so awful for people that enjoy Macross as a mecha show: with the first half hour and last half hour of the movie filled with flying and fighting it's not like my urge to see giant robots went at all unsated.

[distantmantra]

Well seeing as though i ordered the Blu-ray that won't play on my player because of region, i can't help you there. :3

You're in luck. The Blu-ray is region free, says so right on the back of the package.

[boganrobotlightning]

I have no Japanese language skills, except for "Nyan Nyan" and "Sushi".

Has anyone encountered a fansub of this movie that makes sense?

My days of watching Anime and trying to guess the dialogue by watching the action nearly drove me nuts as a kid, and this is MACROSS, so I'd really like to know what those guys are saying to each other!

Cheers.

[distantmantra]

I have no Japanese language skills, except for "Nyan Nyan" and "Sushi".

Has anyone encountered a fansub of this movie that makes sense?

My days of watching Anime and trying to guess the dialogue by watching the action nearly drove me nuts as a kid, and this is MACROSS, so I'd really like to know what those guys are saying to each other!

Cheers.

Not yet, I'm sure it will get subbed pretty quickly.

Too bad there isn't a way to "insert" a subtitle track while watching it on a PS3 like you can do with DVDs and Blu-rays on a PC...

[azrael]

Let me remind some of you that if any of you ask for a fansub/sub version, you will be banned. It will come out when it comes out.

[frothymug]

Okay, a couple more items that I remembered to mention

Pros:

I liked some of the scenes shot from the perspective of Alto's cockpit as he's doing high performance maneuvers in combat. It was a cool point of view, AND to see him actually having to fight off some g-forces

Cons:

Yes, I also raged when I saw Klan wearing the female Mihoshi Academy uniform. Makes absolutely no sense why they'd do that.

The mecha battles were fast-paced, but it felt like they were going TOO fast at some point. One thing that bugged the hell out of me was when Alto was trying to save Ranka from the Vajra bug and is being held in place by the bug. Michael's sniping helped out, and eventually Alto leaves the VF to grab Ranka and escape with her. He gets hit on his EX-Gear and in about .056 seconds, he slave connects to his VF and is already in the damn cockpit before I could blink twice. First of all, how is the VF not already destroyed by either the bug or the friendly fire from Michael? Second, it's bad coreography to skip those little moments to show the full motion of what's going on. I don't know... it just made me say "wtf" when I watched that scene.

I'll post more later

[Seto Kaiba]

Just got started watching the movie myself. I'm only about five minutes in, but so far the animation quality is pretty damn impressive. The only thing that punctured the impressiveness for me was a few seconds of reused footage so far, which stood out fairly strongly for me since I only just finished rewatching the Macross Frontier series. So far, so good...

EDIT ~08:20: Huh... there's a little bit of gratuitous english just for kicks...

EDIT ~14:28: It's nice to see the Frontier NUNS garrison doing a little bit better than they did in the series, but I still hate how they're depicted as totally out of their depth and generally cowardly compared to SMS.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Repiv_Onex]

Cons:

The story was pieced together poorly because it would be impossible for someone who hasn't seen the series to know what the hell is going on. Literally, I'm watching this movie and complaining about the sequencing of the scenes. It's like they want to transition them, but for shortage of time, they just let the fans do the thinking for the movie. You get from point A to point B in an instant, not explaining how you got there, but because you've seen the series, you know what happened in between those two points. It's never actually put into the movie.

I agree with this so much. Personally I think this is the worst con for the movie.

[Seto Kaiba]

'kay... I just finished watching Macross Frontier: Itsuwari no Utahime for the first time. I'll probably watch it again later just to pick up on any details I might have missed.

Overall, not a bad little flick. I found the whole viewing experience extremely enjoyable, with very few areas that I can honestly raise a complaint about. The quality of the animation was spectacular overall, and I particularly enjoyed the improvements to the CG models for the fleet. It really did go a long way to making the Macross Frontier feel enormous. Not sure what was up with those new guns on the SMS Macross Quarter, but the attention to detail (having them glowing with waste heat after firing) was a nice touch. All in all, the visual aspect of the movie was fantastic, IMO. The music was great too, and the visual performances accompanying Sheryl's music were very well choreographed.

Granted, Macross Frontier: Itsuwari no Utahime suffered from all the problems you usually get with a compilation movie. Trying to condense roughly thirteen episodes worth of character development and plot down into under two hours left the story racing past at a frankly disquieting pace. The transitions between scenes fly by so fast that it's sometimes hard to keep up or maintain a sense of time, and key events were distilled down so far that watching the series really is a prerequisite for understanding the movie. Still, I can't really bring myself to hold this against the movie, since it's an inherent problem with compilation movies in general. The movie's story put much greater emphasis on character interactions than giant robots, but I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm in the crowd that came for the characters and stayed for the whoosh-crikey giant robot action. I felt Grace and Brera both got more coherent introductions in the movie than they did in the series, and that making Klan a student did a lot for the plausibility of her relationship with Michael.

The one thing that really surprised me was the further reduction of Ranka's role in the story and the obligatory love triangle. Even though the movie establishes that Alto and Ranka knew each other and were friends for at least a while before Sheryl arrived in the fleet, Ranka's role in the movie is practically token. Alto spends all his time with (or focusing on) Sheryl, while most of Ranka's scenes could be deleted from the movie without having any adverse effect on the story. She's just sort of there... she does almost nothing to further the plot, and her scenes largely feel like they're only there so we won't forget who she is before movie 2 can come out. Just like the Macross Frontier TV series, Ranka's anemic characterization makes it feel like they never intended to have a love triangle... like it was only added because they felt obligated to include one for tradition's sake, but weren't committed enough to actually come up with a character who would be believable as Sheryl's rival. I hope she'll play a bigger role in movie 2... and hopefully even get some character growth for once. Otherwise, there's just no point in keeping her around.

My only other complaint is about the new Vajra warship(s)... they look rather more technological than the ones from the series, and the difference is rather jarring. Especially the big honking battleship turret on the colossal purple one. I can only imagine the Vajra had to copy that from someone, since that's about as far from being a plausible biological system as it gets. The use of the Macross Galaxy's interior for the Macross Attack on it was jarringly nonsensical too... made me wonder if that thing's the Battle Galaxy's gunship or something.

[Tobi54]

Engrish fail

[VF5SS]

is there a 720p version of the movie? my computer can't handle the BD-ness

[Gubaba]

I thought it was good...not stunningly awesome, but good.

It was totally worth it, though, to see

Alto hit Sheryl to protect Ranka. Awesome scene.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Gubaba

[frothymug]

I thought it was good...not stunningly awesome, but good.

It was totally worth it, though, to see

Alto hit Sheryl to protect Ranka. Awesome scene.

Ah yeah, that was a good one. I kinda jumped back in my seat in surprise from that one.