Variable Fighter Master File VF-19 Excalibur

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Anyone think some of the CG modelers who worked on the VF-19 CGI models in the Master Files book worked in coordination with Yamato? Yamato and Tamashii are listed at the end of the book. If the 1/60 VF-19F/S look anything like what is pictured, it will be awesome.

*I am aware that maybe Yamato and Tamashii are listed just for overall supervision but it would be cool if the CGI models are a preview of what's to come toy-wise*

[sketchley]

Anyone else spot the Uraga class carrier on the cover?

[Roy Focker]

Got my copy today. How good is your vision?

Trying to figure out the ships listed. Here's what I got so far. I corrected it from Engrish to English. Those marked with a '*' are my best guess but I'm squinting too much blood is coming out of my eyes.

Macross Columbia

Planet Triton

Macross Galaxy

Macross Odysseus

Macross Andromeda

Macross Frontier

Macross Seven

Macross Olympus

Macross Eleven

Macross Valiant

Planet Valhalla*

Macross Challenger

Planet Eden

Macross Century

Planet Gaia

Macross Pioneer

Planet Niagara*

Macross Endeavor

Macross Errant* (corrected)

Planet Eldorado

[Talos]

Huh, I thought I had posted that list. I just checked and it looks like I only posted it in an MSN conversation I had with Mr. March and Seto last week. Oh well!

Anyway, the first two you asterisked were right, but the third was Macross Errant (Macross-13 mission?).

[Graham]

Still bugging me exactly where and how the new back FAST Packs for the VF-19A attach, as the weapons loadout chart in Master Files seems to show it is not to the shoulders.

Going to try a little experiment tonight. Will get my Yamato 1/60 YF-19 with FAST Packs & Fold Booster fitted and will try to see how it looks with the back FAST Packs from Yamato VF-11B, as they look fairly close in overall shape and size to the new VF-19A back FAST Packs. Will also try to determine the best mounting position.

Graham

[Roy Focker]

Magnets?

It worked for my VF-11's leg packs.

[sketchley]

Still bugging me exactly where and how the new back FAST Packs for the VF-19A attach, as the weapons loadout chart in Master Files seems to show it is not to the shoulders.

Going to try a little experiment tonight. Will get my Yamato 1/60 YF-19 with FAST Packs & Fold Booster fitted and will try to see how it looks with the back FAST Packs from Yamato VF-11B, as they look fairly close in overall shape and size to the new VF-19A back FAST Packs. Will also try to determine the best mounting position.

Graham

Started a translation of the book. The NP-BAP-15c Booster Unit section is the only part presentable, and, amazingly, relevant to Graham's post: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2553.msg39003#msg39003

It hasn't directly stated how/where they attach (maybe in one of the later sections on the FAST packs/Super parts), but it looks like they attach to the "back", not the shield nor shoulder units.

[Graham]

but it looks like they attach to the "back", not the shield nor shoulder units.

That's what I was thinking as well, which is why in an earlier post I wondered if they would need to be jetisoned to transform into Battroid mode?

Graham

[Seto Kaiba]

That's what I was thinking as well, which is why in an earlier post I wondered if they would need to be jetisoned to transform into Battroid mode?

Yeah... It's a bit of a mystery how those things should connect. One would imagine they would latch onto the same contact points the VF-19F/S's do, and stand upright on the end of the shoulders. It looks like there IS fuel storage in there... a pair of long, narrow tanks running the entire length of the pack... so at least they're not ALL missiles.

EDIT: My copy came in today's mail... so no more mooching off Talos's copy for me!

Edited June 17, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Graham]

Started a translation of the book. The NP-BAP-15c Booster Unit section is the only part presentable, and, amazingly, relevant to Graham's post: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2553.msg39003#msg39003

It hasn't directly stated how/where they attach (maybe in one of the later sections on the FAST packs/Super parts), but it looks like they attach to the "back", not the shield nor shoulder units.

Thanks for starting with the translation of the VF-19 Master File, Sketchley.

I find it very interesting that mention is made of using the NP-BAP-15c Booster Unit

in an atmosphere as it doesn't seem particulaly streamlined to me, unlike the later far more streamlined NP-BAP-21 Booster Unit used by the VF-19F/S.

I really hope you will have time to do a translation on the Block Numbers section as I'm hoping this section may offer some insight as to whether the E/F/S/P types were designed to replace the older A/B/C/D types.

Graham

[Seto Kaiba]

Anyone else spot the Uraga class carrier on the cover?

Not until you pointed it out... no. It's barely discernible just below and to the left of the '2' in '2050'.

[Graham]

Hmm........if the NP-BAP-15c Booster Unit does attach to the back of the VF-19A in fighter mode and NOT the shoulders, then the mount for them would have to be quite angled, espcially to accomodate mounting of the Fold Booser as well.

Wondering why the shoulder was not the preferred mounting place for the NP-BAP-15c Booster Unit, as per the VF-19F/S, as it seems the logical place to mount boosters on a 19.

Graham

[azrael]

Hmm........if the NP-BAP-15c Booster Unit does attach to the back of the VF-19A in fighter mode and NOT the shoulders, then the mount for them would have to be quite angled, espcially to accomodate mounting of the Fold Booser as well.

Wondering why the shoulder was not the preferred mounting place for the NP-BAP-15c Booster Unit, as per the VF-19F/S, as it seems the logical place to mount boosters on a 19.

Perhaps deliver the payload and then ditch the parts. A VF-19 can get into satellite orbit without boosters.

[sketchley]

I'm going to refrain from speculating too much before more of the book (or at least the pertenant sections) are translated. For example, I have yet to come across a statement that says the packs remain on, or inverse, are jetissioned during transformation.

Azrael, that sounds like the right way to think about the booster packs - huge initial attack, and then move in to mop up survivors.

As for atmosphere - it's not clear what altitude. Is it the troposphere (7 to 17 km)? The stratosphere (50 to 55 km)? Or all the way up to the exosphere (from 350 to 800 km - well above the orbit of the ISS and average space shuttle mission)?

[Knight26]

Just got my copy, and a few comments.

I need to see lineart of the original VF-19F/S/Kai intakes, as it looks like they changed those to match the ones on the YF-19-A/D series. Not a bad compromise, but I remember them being more rounded before. If they are the same, and it is an official retcon, then that adds many more parts that are common between the versions.

VC-19V: Hate it, horrible concept, what is the freaking point?

I want a phantom Sword VF-19C/D fully variable with all those parts.

Interesting attempt at fixing the wing sweeping issue, but I still don't buy it. Even if those panels slide back they will still cut into the engine. The way we figured it out years ago really seems to work better, but even that was some serious oragami going on. The only way I see the wing sweep working is if the wing has to fold down a little to allow it, then fold back up. For a variable fighter that might not be much of an issue, but still, sweeping the VF-19's wings always seemed silly to me. Also, besides the one scene where we seem them swept back in Mac-Plus, do we ever see the YF/VF-19s wings sweep other than during transformation?

We really need a translation of this whole book.

Has anyone been brave enough to try and make the XVF-19-1, the VF-11 with the YF-19 wings? That would be an interesting custom to see.

Any bets on the next book? Seems that they are turning out a master file a year, so which aircraft is next? They seem to like VFs with lots of variants so we have several to choose from. The VF-11 (5+ variants known, A-D, XL, Kai), the VF-17/171 (9+ variants, A-D, S, K, Kai, RVF, EX, etc...), the VF-25 (4+ variants, A, F, G, S, RVF). I generally assume that there will be an A-D variants except in the case of the VF-25, but maybe that is just me. There are other VFs out there of course, but they don't have as many variants, and while the master file folks seem to like making up variants, they also like having variants to start from.

Also, did anyone else notice that the focker paint scheme YF-19, is Isamus?

[azrael]

I'm going to refrain from speculating too much before more of the book (or at least the pertenant sections) are translated. For example, I have yet to come across a statement that says the packs remain on, or inverse, are jetissioned during transformation.

IIRC, the Chronicle touched on this in the VF-17 and VF-19 articles about their respective Super parts. The only reason Gamlin and Docker jettison their packs was because they spent the missile payloads so the packs were all but dead weight. Didn't say a thing about ditching them for transformation. I haven't had a real chance to look over the Master File's contents but considering so who knows what it could say.

[Knight26]

Anyone think some of the CG modelers who worked on the VF-19 CGI models in the Master Files book worked in coordination with Yamato? Yamato and Tamashii are listed at the end of the book. If the 1/60 VF-19F/S look anything like what is pictured, it will be awesome.

*I am aware that maybe Yamato and Tamashii are listed just for overall supervision but it would be cool if the CGI models are a preview of what's to come toy-wise*

That would be cool, especially since, as I stated before, they used more YF-19 parts then I think were used before in the F/S/Kai models, and with the common nose section we could a really awesome YF-19 V3.

[Talos]

I definitely thought the increased commonality between the VF-19A/C and the VF-19F/P/S/kai was one of my favorite things about the book. They were so different before, even more then a Super Hornet and a legacy one.

Didn't like the VC-19V either. It reminded me of a Convair design to do a supersonic small troop carrier off the B-58 Hustler's airframe. I don't have the project number with me, unfortunately.

I second the need for a translation of the book (a VF-1 Master File one would be nice too, but not as much as this one). I can make sense of parts of it, but trying to make something coherent is beyond my pay grade. XD

It'll probably be a VF-25 Master File next, but I would love to see either a VF-22 or VF-11 one myself.

[sketchley]

It'll probably be a VF-25 Master File next

I've been thinking that, too. It seems like they're covering the TV series' "hero" VFs.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I definitely thought the increased commonality between the VF-19A/C and the VF-19F/P/S/kai was one of my favorite things about the book. They were so different before, even more then a Super Hornet and a legacy one.

Didn't like the VC-19V either. It reminded me of a Convair design to do a supersonic small troop carrier off the B-58 Hustler's airframe. I don't have the project number with me, unfortunately.

I second the need for a translation of the book (a VF-1 Master File one would be nice too, but not as much as this one). I can make sense of parts of it, but trying to make something coherent is beyond my pay grade. XD

It'll probably be a VF-25 Master File next, but I would love to see either a VF-22 or VF-11 one myself.

I want a VF-17/171 one in addition to those.

Anyone catch how many VF-19F's were made compared to the A model?

[Knight26]

I've been thinking that, too. It seems like they're covering the TV series' "hero" VFs.

If that is the case then the VF-17/171 would actually be the most logical next choice. Think about it, they went SDF/DYRL (VF-1) -> Plus (YF-19) (moreso the hero in that then the YF-21, but that is splitting hairs) -> next series is Mac7 (VF-17 is the hero valk) (VF-11 [CF], sound force (hero), but too many variants, and the VF-19Kai was partially covered already) -> Mac 0 (VF-0 Obviously), -> Frontier (VF-25)

So I see the master file going like this:

Mac7 (VF-17/171) (VF-19 already mentions NUNS, so going that route is not an impossible idea)

Mac0 (VF-0) (shorter book, but will probably elaborate on what happened the VF-0 post SW-1)

MacF (VF-25) (no brainer)

SDF/DYRL/2012 (VF-4, possible VF-1 additional with all the extra customs and FAST Packs)

Mac+/7 (VF-11)

Mac7 (Sound Force Variants exclusive)

Mac0 (Sv-51)

MacF (VF-27)

Mac+/7 (VF-22)

MacF (VB-6)

All others only appears in games IIRC, so might not get books until much later. But that list should keep us all satisfied for up to 10 years if they keep to their current schedule. So, step it up guys lets get one every 6-9 months, we have too many VFs to cover. Of course a new Macross show could be introed as well that might upset the list, but we will see. Let's also get some other master files in there, Destroids (all one book), Macross Class(SDF-1 and all post SW-1 variants, MacF tells us they kept producing), Megaroad Class, New Macross Class, Zentraedi Master Files, etc...

Edited June 17, 2010 by Knight26

[Talos]

Since they already talked about the VF-0 in the VF-1 Master File book, I doubt we'll get one of those for awhile. Besides, the VF-17 isn't the hero mech of Macross 7, that's the VF-19 Basara custom.

Actually, one we have to consider is vol 2 of the VF-1 book. Vol 1 is the one already out and covers atmospheric use. That means we're missing space hardware and FAST packs (maybe the atmospheric boosters too).

[Gubaba]

If that is the case then the VF-17/171 would actually be the most logical next choice. Think about it, they went SDF/DYRL (VF-1) -> Plus (YF-19) (moreso the hero in that then the YF-21, but that is splitting hairs) -> next series is Mac7 (VF-17 is the hero valk) (VF-11 [CF], sound force (hero), but too many variants, and the VF-19Kai was partially covered already) -> Mac 0 (VF-0 Obviously), -> Frontier (VF-25)

So I see the master file going like this:

Mac7 (VF-17/171) (VF-19 already mentions NUNS, so going that route is not an impossible idea)

Mac0 (VF-0) (shorter book, but will probably elaborate on what happened the VF-0 post SW-1)

MacF (VF-25) (no brainer)

SDF/DYRL/2012 (VF-4, possible VF-1 additional with all the extra customs and FAST Packs)

Mac+/7 (VF-11)

Mac7 (Sound Force Variants exclusive)

Mac0 (Sv-51)

MacF (VF-27)

Mac+/7 (VF-22)

MacF (VB-6)

All others only appears in games IIRC, so might not get books until much later. But that list should keep us all satisfied for up to 10 years if they keep to their current schedule. So, step it up guys lets get one every 6-9 months, we have too many VFs to cover. Of course a new Macross show could be introed as well that might upset the list, but we will see. Let's also get some other master files in there, Destroids (all one book), Macross Class(SDF-1 and all post SW-1 variants, MacF tells us they kept producing), Megaroad Class, New Macross Class, Zentraedi Master Files, etc...

I think you're being WAAAAY too optimistic about the scope of this series. Certainly, I don't think they're going to do anything that hasn't warranted a Hasegawa kit (or Bandai, in the case of the VF-25).

A YF-21/VF-22 book would be nice, but I'm not sure there's enough demand for it. VF-25 is a no-brainer (although they'd probably best wait at least until the second Frontier movie comes out), but anything else seems like a tough sell.

[azrael]

I think you're being WAAAAY too optimistic about the scope of this series. Certainly, I don't think they're going to do anything that hasn't warranted a Hasegawa kit (or Bandai, in the case of the VF-25).

A YF-21/VF-22 book would be nice, but I'm not sure there's enough demand for it. VF-25 is a no-brainer (although they'd probably best wait at least until the second Frontier movie comes out), but anything else seems like a tough sell.

I see the possibility of 1 more Master File but I ain't holding my breath. It probably won't be a VF-25. YF-21/VF-22, maybe, but like you said, I don't see the demand. And that's being optimistic.

[David Hingtgen]

I think an "enemy" issue would be nice---a combo Sv-51/VF-27 book. But even their combined popularity is less than the -25, and probably the -17/171.

[anime52k8]

I think a YF/VF-24/-25/-27 book is more likely. Considering they're all the same basic airframe, it makes sense.

[Seto Kaiba]

So I see the master file going like this:

Eh... I doubt we'll see much more of Master File beyond a possible VF-25 Messiah book which, as you said, should be a slam dunk in terms of sales if they release it around Macross Frontier: the Wings of Goodbye's debut. Odds are they'd go the safest route and just lump the YF-24, VF-27, and possibly the VF-171 in there as well.

SDF/DYRL/2012 (VF-4, possible VF-1 additional with all the extra customs and FAST Packs)

As much as I would love to see this, it's unlikely it'll ever happen since only two of Macross's main characters (Hikaru Ichijo and Mahara Fabrio) have ever flown them in any prominently-featured fashion, and even then it was only briefly. Plus, I'm a bit leery about the idea of Master File's writers doing what they've done for the other two books and coming up with a bunch of new variants and even new super parts. I'm uneasy about the prospect of any more Macross II-isms (like the U.N. Spacy having two different main VFs, one optimized for space and the other for atmosphere) leaking into Macross's main continuity... and a VF-4 with Super parts and/or a S-type head pretty much tops that list.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Roy Focker]

I would like one of the VF-11 but likely winner would be the VF-25. Plenty of variants and fast pack options to cover in the entire book.

[Vic Mancini]

My bet is VF-25 next, and VF-22 after that.

Maybe it's just me but I think the 22 is the most popular valk after the 1, 19, and 25.

VF-17 and 11 are wishful thinking IMO.

[Graham]

IIRC, the Chronicle touched on this in the VF-17 and VF-19 articles about their respective Super parts. The only reason Gamlin and Docker jettison their packs was because they spent the missile payloads so the packs were all but dead weight. Didn't say a thing about ditching them for transformation. I haven't had a real chance to look over the Master File's contents but considering so who knows what it could say.

With the VF-17D/S and VF-19F/S Super packs, there is certainly no need to ditch thethe Super parts in order to transform between fighter and battroid modes (not sure about Gerwalk though). In the Macross 7 TV series, we do see both the VF-17D/S and VF-19F/S with Super parts in both fighter and battroid modes.

And yes, if all missiles and fuel have already been expended the Super parts are pretty much dead weight. If you still have fuel, but no missiles, at least you've got some extra thrust available. Although, The VF-17D/S Super parts do have the two beam cannons as well, even if the missiles are spent.

I find it very hard to accept that in the 2040s, Super parts would be designed for the VF-19 that could only be used in fighter mode. However, that's what it looks like with the NP-BAP-15c Booster Units, which definitelt don't attach on the shoulders. The CG pic of the black VF-19 with two fold boosters (ventral and dorsal) and NP-BAP-15c Booster Units(page 68? IIRC), definitely seems to show angled mounts for the NP-BAP-15c Booster Units that connect to the back, not the shouders.

Graham

[Graham]

Given that the VF-19F/S NP-BAP-21 booster units are significantly wider than the VF-19A's NP-BAP-15c Booster Units, I wonder what the micro-missile count is for them. Should be higher, unless more internal space is used for fuel.

And yes, I also think the next book will most likely be on the VF-25, as they seem to be concentrating on main hero mecha. Probably think a book on the less popular VFs wouldn't sell.

Graham

[Graham]

VC-19V: Hate it, horrible concept, what is the freaking point?

Very hi-speed, military VIP transport, I guess.

Perhaps it was cheaper to convert older surplus VF-19A airframes to the non-transforming VC-19V configuration, rather then develop an all new aircraft from scratch?

Definitely can see uses when a very high spped transport would be useful.

Graham

[Graham]

OK, in an effort to see how the NP-BAP-15c boosters shown in Master Files could attach to a VF-19A, I fitted the Super Packs from a Yamato 1/60 VF-11B (as they are close in design to the NP-BAP-15c), to a Yamato 1/60 YF-19 "Double Nuts".

Attached are some pics of the YF-19 "Double Nuts" with Fold Booster, YF-19 FAST Packs, Reaction Missiles & Micro Missile pods from Bandai 1/60 VF-25 weapons set and Super Packs from a Yamato 1/60 VF-11B. The VF-11B Super packs are just balanced on top of the shoulders in the photos.

If, as the book seems to show the NP-BAP-15c boosters attach to the back of the VF-19A, there isn't a lot of space for the mount, what with the Fold Booster pylons already there, but it probably would just be doable.

Graham

[Chronocidal]

Yeesh, that looks crazy.. now I wish they'd add those standard hardpoints to all the planes so we could put missiles on them like that without the clips (and having to shell out for Bandai's exclusive nonsense).

Btw, one quick question about the new forum design.. is there a way to restrict the way attachments display to a certain maximum resolution? I really like the new gallery system, and how it lets you click between images, but it also bypasses the normal zoom in/out features of the browser, and won't let you fit the image to your screen.

You can still open the pictures in a new tab or window, so it's not really essential, and it's usually not a problem. Just, occasionally someone's really big picture will explode out the side of the message board, and leave the entire screen taken up by something like a wing, or sometimes a single screw.

[Graham]

OK, in an effort to see how the NP-BAP-15c boosters shown in Master Files could attach to a VF-19A, I fitted the Super Packs from a Yamato 1/60 VF-11B (as they are close in design to the NP-BAP-15c), to a Yamato 1/60 YF-19 "Double Nuts".

Graham

Although looking again at the lineart in the Master File, the boosters should be mounted further forward than how I have them in my pics.

Grahm