Have Bandai improved ?

[pud333]

As for what will fit in, the only design I see from Bandai that would fit in best with a Yamato 1/60 collection is the VF-27.

I really like the look of the VF-27. It's so... "out there" in terms of what my collection in general looks like. I don't have a lot of Japanese imports, so while it would stick out like a sore thumb, I still want it. With the SV-51 I have coming, I think it would still look pretty nice all together.

I've come to realize that a complete redo of the 25's is probably not in the cards, so if Bandai could just make those minor fixes to the existing line and re-release them, I'd probably be all over that.

[eugimon]

DX 25 needs more than a few minor fixes. It's crap from the ground up.

[eriku]

For me a few minor changes would have went a long way with the DX 25. I actually really loved it when I first got it. It wasn't until the crotch lock and loose joint problems cropped up later that made me really dislike it. The 27 is so good that I can't help but wish they would have another go at the 25.

But first things first: give us a damn VF-171 already!

[pud333]

For me a few minor changes would have went a long way with the DX 25.

This. I think in general, the toy is good. There's just some obvious glaring flaws that need to be fixed; flaws that seem like no brainers and should not have been flaws in the first place. Of course, I don't actually own one, so maybe it's different in person.

[eugimon]

This. I think in general, the toy is good. There's just some obvious glaring flaws that need to be fixed; flaws that seem like no brainers and should not have been flaws in the first place. Of course, I don't actually own one, so maybe it's different in person.

Those flaws would require a complete rebuild though.

Look at how the legs stow in fighter mode on the 27 and then compare it to the 25. The 27 is correct, the 25 is wrong. And because it's wrong, once the armor is attached it stresses the hinges all along the back plate/wing glove causing them to crack and fail.

Minor things like a collapsible shield, using jewel inserts instead of painting sensors, etc would be easy to fix but that doesn't address the real problems with the 25 design.

[regult]

agreed, but as many, I think a complete redesign of the VF-25 is very unlikely...yet so much needed.

the VF-27 may be much better by comparison, but sitting next to a Yamato (SV-51 Nora) it still looks more toyish: the Bandai is shiny, less detailed and has almost no cockpit nor landing gear details printed.

Lets not forget the paint (although probably less so than VF-25s) gets easily scratched too.

[pud333]

Those flaws would require a complete rebuild though.

Look at how the legs stow in fighter mode on the 27 and then compare it to the 25. The 27 is correct, the 25 is wrong. And because it's wrong, once the armor is attached it stresses the hinges all along the back plate/wing glove causing them to crack and fail.

Hmm, fair enough. I'm pretty new to these toys so I'm going to have to defer to your judgement on it. That does sound like a more serious issue.

the VF-27 may be much better by comparison, but sitting next to a Yamato (SV-51 Nora) it still looks more toyish: the Bandai is shiny, less detailed and has almost no cockpit nor landing gear details printed.

Lets not forget the paint (although probably less so than VF-25s) gets easily scratched too.

Can you expand on what you mean by the part about how the 27 looks more toyish? Are you saying the SV-51 looks more like a detailed model and the VF-27 more like a kid's toy?

[eugimon]

Here, just compare the cockpits

[jenius]

That's not entirely fair... seeing as the VF-27 has some sort of floating in a translucent bubble of doom cockpit which would be really hard to emulate (although they kinda did with the color of the canopy on the inside). Still, the VF-27 is a bit less like a model than Yamato's SV-51 but if memory serves it also MSRP'ed at $50ish less per unit.

Edited September 22, 2010 by jenius

[eugimon]

That's not entirely fair... seeing as the VF-27 has some sort of floating in a translucent bubble of doom cockpit which would be really hard to emulate (although they kinda did with the color of the canopy on the inside). Still, the VF-27 is a bit less like a model than Yamato's SV-51 but if memory serves it also MSRP'ed at $50ish less per unit.

the translucent bubble was only a projection. There was still an actual physical cockpit which they show anytime the 27 gets hit.

And yeah, the sv-51 costs more but it also is larger, more complex, has tons of accessories and comes with a stand.

[pud333]

Interesting. Thanks for the pictures. I think I'll probably still get 27, but will wait on the 25s.

[David Hingtgen]

Can you expand on what you mean by the part about how the 27 looks more toyish? Are you saying the SV-51 looks more like a detailed model and the VF-27 more like a kid's toy?

The DX VF-27 is super-shiny and glossy, while the Sv-51 is matte. Asides from the Blue Angels/Thunderbirds (which get polished daily) I have yet to see a shiny glossy fighter plane.

[jenius]

I know I'm in the minority here but I like the shiny plastic... makes it feel like a toy. Still, I love me some SV-51 and some YF-21 but this argument could be taken silly and compare the VF-27 to Yamato's YF-19 offerings or the detachable arm V2s and suddenly the VF-27 seems a lot better. Each company makes their so-so (or lousy) toys and their good ones. In a little bit here we'll be able to compare Yamato's Koenig to Bandai's, that should be interesting.

[Nicaragua]

The general opinion seems to be that the VF-25 sucks so I’ll definitely steer clear of that one. I really like the look of the VF-27 though although what I have heard about the paint chipping makes me cautious as I am quite hands on with my toys.

On another note I just received my SV-51 Nora yesterday – this thing is a monster! HLJ are currently having a sale on them with 60% off so its only 8720 Yen.

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00064

[reeoyuy]

Asides from the Blue Angels/Thunderbirds (which get polished daily) I have yet to see a shiny glossy fighter plane.

True. Today, shiny fighter plane sounds like a silly idea, but what do we know about the future? Maybe we'll see a bunch of 'em in 2059, we never know. So I'm okay with my DXs being shiny since I'm fully aware that those I displayed aren't F-14 or any real-life aircraft model; it's a 3D representation of fictional aircraft.

About the need of DX VF-25 redesign, I think it needs to be rebuilt from scratch. It's not the flaws (stubby landing gear, short neck, etc) but proportion that need to be redone. Both VF-25 and VF-27 are derived from the same prototype (YF-24) so logically they would've similar proportion. But then, when I put DX 25 & 27 together, I can't see any connection ar all .

[pud333]

On another note I just received my SV-51 Nora yesterday – this thing is a monster! HLJ are currently having a sale on them with 60% off so its only 8720 Yen.

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00064

I ordered mine a few days ago. Definitely looking forward to it. At that price, it's definitely worth it. As for the shiny aspect of the 27, I don't mind shiny. The only thing I'm worried about with that is the paint rubbing off. I'm already pretty careful with my toys, but I might have to be extra anal with that one.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I know I'm in the minority here but I like the shiny plastic... makes it feel like a toy. Still, I love me some SV-51 and some YF-21 but this argument could be taken silly and compare the VF-27 to Yamato's YF-19 offerings or the detachable arm V2s and suddenly the VF-27 seems a lot better. Each company makes their so-so (or lousy) toys and their good ones. In a little bit here we'll be able to compare Yamato's Koenig to Bandai's, that should be interesting.

I prefer gloss plastic too, part of the appeal with the 1/55's for me.

The general opinion seems to be that the VF-25 sucks so I’ll definitely steer clear of that one. I really like the look of the VF-27 though although what I have heard about the paint chipping makes me cautious as I am quite hands on with my toys.On another note I just received my SV-51 Nora yesterday – this thing is a monster! HLJ are currently having a sale on them with 60% off so its only 8720 Yen.http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00064

Members here have described ways to avoid chipping the nose in battroid mode on the VF-27, forgot where but I've definitely read the tips here before.

True. Today, shiny fighter plane sounds like a silly idea, but what do we know about the future? Maybe we'll see a bunch of 'em in 2059, we never know. So I'm okay with my DXs being shiny since I'm fully aware that those I displayed aren't F-14 or any real-life aircraft model; it's a 3D representation of fictional aircraft.About the need of DX VF-25 redesign, I think it needs to be rebuilt from scratch. It's not the flaws (stubby landing gear, short neck, etc) but proportion that need to be redone. Both VF-25 and VF-27 are derived from the same prototype (YF-24) so logically they would've similar proportion. But then, when I put DX 25 & 27 together, I can't see any connection ar all .

Bandai should get FLEX to design an all new DX VF-25 from scratch. Maybe it will be a while but being that Bandai retains the license for a while, I think we can all wait. If it gives you guys any relief, I think FLEX is from Bandai's Hobby Division instead of their Collector's Division(Tamashii). Also he designed the 1/48 and other Yamato valks afterwards(not sure which other ones specifically, but IIRC he was the guy to go to before SOLID and T-Rex started doing more work for Yamato).

I ordered mine a few days ago. Definitely looking forward to it. At that price, it's definitely worth it. As for the shiny aspect of the 27, I don't mind shiny. The only thing I'm worried about with that is the paint rubbing off. I'm already pretty careful with my toys, but I might have to be extra anal with that one.

Considering how much it is given the MSRP and weak dollar/yen ratio right now, HLJ's price, despite the yen gaining strength(and going back down a tiny bit last week) is a bargain.

[anime52k8]

The DX VF-27 is super-shiny and glossy, while the Sv-51 is matte. Asides from the Blue Angels/Thunderbirds (which get polished daily) I have yet to see a shiny glossy fighter plane.

but the VF-27 isn't a fighter plane it's a cyborg operated spacecraft that turns into a giant robot with a ridiculously large, phallic beam weapon. and it's purple.

[nexxstrait]

Both Bandai and Yamato have their pros and cons. For me, BAndai did it right the first time and from then on no other company - Bandai included - has ever bested the almost indestructible 1/55 "chunky monkey". Nice, quite posable, absolytely passes the test of time (heck, that toy is almost always on the market with reissues for a reason) and, for once, you can play with it with your children without worrying that it breaks just by watching it! A perfect blend of toy and display piece. You can't ask for more.

Unless, of course, you don't like it.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Both Bandai and Yamato have their pros and cons. For me, BAndai did it right the first time and from then on no other company - Bandai included - has ever bested the almost indestructible 1/55 "chunky monkey". Nice, quite posable, absolytely passes the test of time (heck, that toy is almost always on the market with reissues for a reason) and, for once, you can play with it with your children without worrying that it breaks just by watching it! A perfect blend of toy and display piece. You can't ask for more.

Unless, of course, you don't like it.

That's not them though, that's Takatoku. The only VF-1 toys completely made by Bandai are the VF HI METAL, HCM, maybe the Joke Machines, and possibly the Strike armor for the VF-1S 1/55, as well as the parts for the VT/VE-1's.

[David Hingtgen]

and it's purple.

Not mine, it's olive drab. (and I've never seen a gloss olive drab---that's almost an oxymoron)

[pud333]

Okay, can someone give me (a noobie) a quick synopsis of Bandai's different divisions and what they focus on? Cause I've heard various phrases, like DX, Chogokin, Robots Damashii, etc. but have no idea what they mean. Forgive my ignorance

[Vifam7]

Not mine, it's olive drab. (and I've never seen a gloss olive drab---that's almost an oxymoron)

I've seen gloss olive green on cars.

[EXO]

Bandai should get FLEX to design an all new DX VF-25 from scratch. Maybe it will be a while but being that Bandai retains the license for a while, I think we can all wait. If it gives you guys any relief, I think FLEX is from Bandai's Hobby Division instead of their Collector's Division(Tamashii). Also he designed the 1/48 and other Yamato valks afterwards(not sure which other ones specifically, but IIRC he was the guy to go to before SOLID and T-Rex started doing more work for Yamato).

TRex used to be a part of FREX so there's a blurry line on which designer did which valk before they started on their own.

[ff95gj]

I hope they completely redo the 25s. While I'm happy I'm not dumping money into a whole other line, I really love the Armored Messiah Design. I didn't like the look of the toy but was doubly disappointed when I heard that the armor wasnt removable. IIRC.

?? What do you mean the Armor wasn't removable? Do you mean the DX version (but the armor is removable, and sold separately for the 25F)?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Okay, can someone give me (a noobie) a quick synopsis of Bandai's different divisions and what they focus on? Cause I've heard various phrases, like DX, Chogokin, Robots Damashii, etc. but have no idea what they mean. Forgive my ignorance

• Armor Plus: Figure w/removable armor, like Alto's EX Suit.
  
• DX: Covers Macross Quarter, and 1/60 VF-25 and VF-27. Perfect transformation, some diecast content.
  
• VF100's: 1/100 parts-swapping line; only had VF-25's.
  
• Robot Damashii SIDE VF: Non-transformable VF-25's, + Q Rea figures. Highly articulated.
  
• Robot Damashii SIDE VF DX Konig Monster: Transforming Konig Monster in Ranka and Sheryl Nome versions
  
• VF HI METAL: Transforming 1/100 line replacing VF100's; minimal parts swapping, focus on high articulation/range of motion, and some diecast content
  
• Origin of Valkyrie: 1/55 reissues of the classic VF-1 toy by Takatoku
  

*

*Anytime "gokin" is refernced or listed, it denotes diecast content irregardless of how minimal it may actually be

TRex used to be a part of FREX so there's a blurry line on which designer did which valk before they started on their own.

Wait....I was referring to FLEX(Nishikawa san)...the guy primarily responsible for the 1/48 VF-1 by Yamato...is there another FREX that was originally part of TREX or the other way around? I'm guessing TREX came onboard for the V2 1/60 VF-1. IIRC:

• 1/72 Macross Plus: Billy Wong(FLEX redesigned parts for the YF-21+Fast Packs set IIRC)
  
• V1 1/60 VF-1: Billy Wong with assistance by FLEX
  
• 1/48 VF-1: FLEX
  
• 1/60 YF-19: SOLID with some design by FLEX
  
• 1/60 VF-0: SOLID?
  
• V2 1/60 VF-1: SOLID + TREX
  

?? What do you mean the Armor wasn't removable? Do you mean the DX version (but the armor is removable, and sold separately for the 25F)?

Maybe he meant the VF100's...but then again, the only Armored version was Alto's 25F.

[pud333]

• Armor Plus: Figure w/removable armor, like Alto's EX Suit.
  
• DX: Covers Macross Quarter, and 1/60 VF-25 and VF-27. Perfect transformation, some diecast content.
  
• VF100's: 1/100 parts-swapping line; only had VF-25's.
  
• Robot Damashii SIDE VF: Non-transformable VF-25's, + Q Rea figures. Highly articulated.
  
• Robot Damashii SIDE VF DX Konig Monster: Transforming Konig Monster in Ranka and Sheryl Nome versions
  
• VF HI METAL: Transforming 1/100 line replacing VF100's; minimal parts swapping, focus on high articulation/range of motion, and some diecast content
  
• Origin of Valkyrie: 1/55 reissues of the classic VF-1 toy by Takatoku
  

*

*Anytime "gokin" is refernced or listed, it denotes diecast content irregardless of how minimal it may actually be

Excellent. This is very helpful. Thank you.

[EXO]

I don't have one but I thought I heard that the super armor for the 1/60s had to be swapped and not just added.

[anime52k8]

I don't have one but I thought I heard that the super armor for the 1/60s had to be swapped and not just added.

no, the super/armor just clip on to the base toy (poorly). the 1/72 model kits involve swapping and the VF100's armor is permanently integrated.

[EXO]

Ah. Ok thanks. That may be the 1/72 kits I'm remembering then. I think was considering getting those instead of the toy at one point.

[nexxstrait]

That's not them though, that's Takatoku. The only VF-1 toys completely made by Bandai are the VF HI METAL, HCM, maybe the Joke Machines, and possibly the Strike armor for the VF-1S 1/55, as well as the parts for the VT/VE-1's.

Now I feel ashamed . Err... forgive me, I only own the Bandai Reissues (1990 Super 1S and Origin of Valkyrie 1J).

Well, the VF19 Hi-Metal is leaps and bounds superior to anything ever done before and even the VF1, from a design point of view, is superior to the Yamatos. For me, at least.

[regult]

Here, just compare the cockpits

eugimon has read my mind. I would have taken these photos if I had had the time, the camera and the skills...and no virtual reality needed, just sth similar to the lineart would have been nice. Suffice to say that I love the SV-51 cockpit.

Not mine, it's olive drab. (and I've never seen a gloss olive drab---that's almost an oxymoron)

True, and I am one of those who prefers no gloss, but to be fair, the animation shows something in a metallic-sheen paint, much like the real world F-22 or even shinier, like cars as pointed out. Anyway, the VF-27 does not look metallic or as glossy as a painted car model. Somebody posted pictures of a VF-27 model kit painted in very metallic red paint, that'd have been THE shiny look if Bandai would have wanted to go the extra mile

[MR_Hyde]

If they re-did the VF-25 I would get one. Right now, as it stands, I will only own Ozma as I am not satisfied enough with the quality to try to hunt down Alto or the others. As a fighter it looks good, chunky yes, but good. My issue is with the quality of the transformation. Both Gerwalk and Battroid modes are a J O K E.

My VF-27, looks great in all poses. I'm not a fan of the stupidly large gun but it works. I have gloss coated the whole front end in hopes of preserving the paint. Without it, or damaged, it loses its "look". Every day I touch that awesome toy, I pray that the gloss coat holds up. Seriously.

My other issue is Bandai's paint or quality. It's always so fragile. Tampo printing just doesn't bite well on super-glossy plastic. I think that is what the issue is. I don't have these issues with my Yamato Valks. Yes, I have to be careful with the shoulders on my early V.2's, but at least they pose incredibly well in addition to having a durable finish. They are toys- high priced ones- no matter what anyone else says.

Hell, I love Macross Frontier. I hope to hell they do re-work or at least attempt to improve the VF-25's. Then I'd buy the rest of them. Macross is a cash-cow for both Yamato and Bandai. Otherwise they wouldn't keep feeding us re-painted and slightly updated molds, ala YF-19 Double Nuts. Which, by the way, is fantastic and there are improvements to over the original. Love it. Well worth the money. Hook, line, and sinker. That's why Bandai needs to work on the VF-25.

[pud333]

If they re-did the VF-25 I would get one. Right now, as it stands, I will only own Ozma as I am not satisfied enough with the quality to try to hunt down Alto or the others. As a fighter it looks good, chunky yes, but good. My issue is with the quality of the transformation. Both Gerwalk and Battroid modes are a J O K E.

I personally like the Battroid mode and fighter mode. I don't see how it is as chunky as everyone says. However, there are some problems with the toys. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see a complete retooling or a Yamato version of the 25s. That being said, I would only get the Michael and Ozma ones anyway, regardless of retooling. I have an opportunity to buy a Michael one for a decent price, but I'm still debating on pulling the trigger. I'll be getting my 27 by the end of the week, so I'll see how much I enjoy that first.

[wewe]

Bandai really has improved their methods of getting sales. Pre-orders, exclusives, product-to-show tie-ins, marketing, production methods that cut cost, multiple product retooling and recolor, ect.