Transformers Gen1 Questions......

[Dax415]

hopefully i didn't pass a thread already for gen1 questions. if so please move this post to where it should be. towards the begining of gen1, it looked like the transformers would also have "superpowers" that played into the storyline on a regular basis, but they never really materialized after the 2nd season. was wondering if there was a reason for this as i liked smallish transformers like cliffjumper who had a ice cannon, or hound and his ability to form illusions, mirage and his ability to teleport and etc. was there ever an official answer why that aspect of transformers simply died off?

Edited August 31, 2010 by Dax415

[RD Blade]

Not sure if this should've gone in the Transformers mega-thread.

Located here

But in case this topic is unique enough to warrant its own thread, I'll answer.

towards the begining of gen1, it looked like the transformers would also have "superpowers" that played into the storyline on a regular basis, was there ever an official answer why that aspect of transformers simply died off?

Far as I know, it didn't die off. In the most recent generation, Animated, each Autobot had a unique weapon, power, skill, or any combination of the three. i.e. Prowl's shuriken, holograms, and ninjitsu... Bumblebee's stingers and speed... Optimus had an axe, wrist-mounted grapping hooks, etc.

[mikeszekely]

I'd say it has a lot to do with the fact that tech specs were written for the toys (and the Marvel comic book) before the first season came out. A lot of the "super powers" the first season cast used were from the tech specs. But as Hasbro added more and more new characters, season 2 had less of a core cast than the first season, and a lot of the characters would only get the spotlight for maybe one episode. Even core season 1 members got a lot less face time.

[Renato]

I remember watching the first episode quite a while back for the first time in years, and I noticed that Skywarp could actually "warp" to other locations. I was like, "what the hell?? Could he do that??"

I don't recall him doing that since, so I agree, I think they dropped most of those ideas later on in the series.

Oh and by the way. What is it with all the Transformer threads taking up half the board. Is there a reason they can't all go in the "Super Thread"? This is almost as bad as all those Mospeada threads a while back. Meanwhile that thread about Stephen Hawking's ideas for space colonization was closed, supposedly because of the existence of the Science & Tech thread, serious and enlightening discussion be damned.

[Agent ONE]

Dax, tell me thats your girlfriend in your avatar.

[RedWolf]

hopefully i didn't pass a thread already for gen1 questions. if so please move this post to where it should be. towards the begining of gen1, it looked like the transformers would also have "superpowers" that played into the storyline on a regular basis, but they never really materialized after the 2nd season. was wondering if there was a reason for this as i liked smallish transformers like cliffjumper who had a ice cannon, or hound and his ability to form illusions, mirage and his ability to teleport and etc. was there ever an official answer why that aspect of transformers simply died off?

Cliffjumper has a glass gun, turns stuff to glass.Hound can make holograms. Mirage is invisibility.

The whole reason for the Movie was to introduce new toys. Hence Hasbro asked Marvel/Sunbow to kill off season 1 and 2 characters.The on-screen causalities should have been larger if the storyboard I've seen is any indication. For example Mirage would've had a death sequence.

[Uxi]

Too bad they didn't keep killing for MORE toys in the cartoon. I would have liked to see some more Decepticon casualties, too.

[areaseven]

For decades, I had always wondered about the purpose of Optimus Prime's trailer. There's always the debate on where it goes every time he transforms. Also, the Combat Deck mode was only used once in the series, and it was destroyed by Megatron.

[RD Blade]

For decades, I had always wondered about the purpose of Optimus Prime's trailer. There's always the debate on where it goes every time he transforms. Also, the Combat Deck mode was only used once in the series, and it was destroyed by Megatron.

What?!? I don't remember that at all.

[areaseven]

What?!? I don't remember that at all.

It may or may not have been Megatron, but I vaguely remember that episode. I'll re-watch my season 1 DVD later this week.

[ae_productions]

G1 was great, but inconsistent to say the least.

I dug the 86 movie. Once Prime died, I remembered feeling like no one was safe.

No one, and I mean no one died in Transformers prior to that film. A bit of a shocker.

I also remember my Grandfather took me to see it in theaters, and when Spike swore for the first time, ALL the parents in the theater gasped in unison. My Grandpa laughed.

As far as the death toll, there were a few scenes that were storyboarded, but never finished that involved a few other deaths. Also, if you look around during the battle of Autobot city, there are Autobot bodies lyin' around of G1 characters. Pretty sad stuff.

The Decepticons had a pretty high toll count too. But the funny thing is, some of the Seekers who died halfway through the movie, are back on Cybertron and join in the fight against Unicron!

Goes back to sayin' the G1 cartoon was pretty inconsistent.

But damn, it was good stuff.

[buddhafabio]

in the scene where kup and hot rod make it back in the city and help move the mortar catapult thing you see arcee hauling the body of wheeljack. and i thought i saw a red bodied transformer there cliff jumper maybe?

[areaseven]

in the scene where kup and hot rod make it back in the city and help move the mortar catapult thing you see arcee hauling the body of wheeljack. and i thought i saw a red bodied transformer there cliff jumper maybe?

Nope, that was Windcharger. Cliff was on one of the Cybertron moon bases during the siege of Autobot City.

[CrusherJ]

in the scene where kup and hot rod make it back in the city and help move the mortar catapult thing you see arcee hauling the body of wheeljack. and i thought i saw a red bodied transformer there cliff jumper maybe?

Arcee was dragging Windcharger and laid him by Wheeljacks' body. Cliff Jumper lived through the movie.

[Agent ONE]

Can someone post screenshots of all the corpses from TF the Movie?

[Uxi]

I remember being PO'ed that Wheeljack didn't even get to die on screen.

Always loved Ironhide's death. Point blank blast from Megatron's cannon.

[Wanzerfan]

in the scene where kup and hot rod make it back in the city and help move the mortar catapult thing you see arcee hauling the body of wheeljack. and i thought i saw a red bodied transformer there cliff jumper maybe?

I don't think Wheeljack's dead. This Wikipedia article states that Wheeljack didn't turn grey like the other transformers that became deceased.

[areaseven]

Always loved Ironhide's death. Point blank blast from Megatron's cannon.

"Such heroic nonsense."

But the death of Brawn in the

is better.

"Oh yeah?"

Or how about

of Prime vs. Megatron?

"Finish him off, Prime! Remember all the Autobots he's killed over the years. Off-screen."

Edited September 7, 2010 by areaseven

[RD Blade]

A few more corpses can be found here.

Edited September 7, 2010 by RD Blade

[bluemax151]

I'm certainly no transformers expert but I had heard/read before that wheeljack shows up again in the Japanese cartoon, Victory I think?

oooh youtubed it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSJa-1XZ-30

[areaseven]

I'm certainly no transformers expert but I had heard/read before that wheeljack shows up again in the Japanese cartoon, Victory I think?

oooh youtubed it

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=dSJa-1XZ-30

The Japanese continuity (Headmasters, Masterforce, Victory, Zone) is inconsistent with G1 because Transformers: The Movie was not shown in Japan until around 1989; so whoever died in the movie still showed up. Season 3 of the G1 series aired in Japan as Transformers: 2010, but disregarded the events of the movie. Until the movie actually played there, all the viewers knew was that Optimus Prime was dead.

[RedWolf]

I'm certainly no transformers expert but I had heard/read before that wheeljack shows up again in the Japanese cartoon, Victory I think?

oooh youtubed it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSJa-1XZ-30

That's because the Movie wasn't shown in Japan until well after Transformers Victory. Writers didn't know Wheeljack was suppose to be dead. For that matter Prowl appeared in Transformers Headmasters, Takara's G1 season 4 instead of the Rebirth mini-series.

Anyway Hirofumi Ichikawa wrote in his Binaltech storyline Autobots having spare bodies if killed.

[RD Blade]

That's a bad retcon.

[Agent ONE]

The Japanese continuity (Headmasters, Masterforce, Victory, Zone) is inconsistent with G1 because Transformers: The Movie was not shown in Japan until around 1989; so whoever died in the movie still showed up. Season 3 of the G1 series aired in Japan as Transformers: 2010, but disregarded the events of the movie. Until the movie actually played there, all the viewers knew was that Optimus Prime was dead.

Oh, so its like most other anime... Completely ruined continuity. Nice

[areaseven]

Season 3 by itself is a complete mess, and I'm not just talking about the crappy animation. Perhaps the biggest inconsistency throughout the whole season is Optimus Prime.

In episode 73 "Dark Awakening", Optimus Prime returned from the dead, but was actually a zombie controlled by the Quintessons as part of their plan to destroy the Autobots. However, in the end of the episode, a piece of Prime's conscience took over and he got himself killed again

In episode 94 "The Return of Optimus Prime (Part 1)", a group of human scientists found the wreckage of Prime's ship and his body. What doesn't make sense is that Prime did a kamikaze run in the end of episode 73 and his ship was completely destroyed. Also, when the Quintessons shot at the ship, Prime lost an arm and parts of his head. Yet in this episode, Prime's body is intact.

Has there been an explanation to the inconsistencies between the two episodes?

[bluemax151]

So transformers isn't like Robotech where the Japanese version is infinitely better and more respected? I kid, I kid well only sort of

areaseven What do you mean by season 3/TF2010 is incompatible with the movie btw?

[Keith]

Season 3 by itself is a complete mess, and I'm not just talking about the crappy animation. Perhaps the biggest inconsistency throughout the whole season is Optimus Prime.

In episode 73 "Dark Awakening", Optimus Prime returned from the dead, but was actually a zombie controlled by the Quintessons as part of their plan to destroy the Autobots. However, in the end of the episode, a piece of Prime's conscience took over and he got himself killed again

In episode 94 "The Return of Optimus Prime (Part 1)", a group of human scientists found the wreckage of Prime's ship and his body. What doesn't make sense is that Prime did a kamikaze run in the end of episode 73 and his ship was completely destroyed. Also, when the Quintessons shot at the ship, Prime lost an arm and parts of his head. Yet in this episode, Prime's body is intact.

Has there been an explanation to the inconsistencies between the two episodes?

No they didn't just find the reckage, they also happened to completely miss the Autobots & Decepticons that were just there, and happen upon his ship during the kamikaze run in time to rescue the dead prime just in time, then got contaminated by evil red cosmic spores that were coming off of the star Prime was crashing into, or something like that. Or maybe this was the nexus episode between the pre- & post Beast Wars temperal screw up, and thats why they were able to save an intacct Optimus. Regardless, he looked badass with his eye socket exposed!

That's not the true failing of the 3rd season though. The real failing was whiny bitchass Rodimus Prime. At the end of the movie, he was all poised to take leadersihp, but then as of the first post moive ep, he was all emo & weak. Maybe it was because they were already considering bringing back Op after the movie backlash, but somewhere along the line both Rodimus & Galvatron got nuetered. Had we gotten our proper Flintimus Prime, and badass Nimoy version Galvatron, that could have been a far superior season.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Keith

[areaseven]

areaseven What do you mean by season 3/TF2010 is incompatible with the movie btw?

I never said that season 3 was incompatible/inconsistent with the movie. All I said was that Japan aired season 3 without the movie; thus causing a rift in the continuity of the franchise there.

[bluemax151]

I never said that season 3 was incompatible/inconsistent with the movie. All I said was that Japan aired season 3 without the movie; thus causing a rift in the continuity of the franchise there.

I guess I just misread/misinterpreted this sentence then.

Season 3 of the G1 series aired in Japan as Transformers: 2010, but disregarded the events of the movie.

[areaseven]

There's one other thing that bothers me about G1, and it's the amount of hits Optimus Prime takes to actually kill him. Here are some examples:

Episode 6 "Divide and Conquer" - The seekers shoot the hell out of Prime, and right on the operating table, Laserbeak does further damage on him. Yet all Prime needs is a component part from Wheeljack's old laboratory, and he's good as new.

Episode 16 "Heavy Metal War" - Megatron uses the combined abilities of all the Decepticons to defeat Prime in a one-on-one fight. That would have completely destroyed Prime, but according to Ratchet, he actually isn't hurt badly.

And then we go to Transformers: The Movie. Optimus Prime gets impaled in the abdomen by a shard of debris thrown by Megatron, who then does further damage in the same spot with an energy sword. And then he shoots a laser pistol right on the damaged abdomen, and in a matter of several minutes, Prime is gone.

What's wrong with this picture?

[VF-19]

Perhaps the plot armour rusted?

[Zor Primus]

I hated the fact the made Galvatron "crazy" b/c of the plasma planet he landed on. And while the episode where Cyclonus takes him to a psych planet to be "cured" maybe the funniest in the entire series, calm, cool, evil, Galvs from the movie was much more fun and akin to Megatron.

[Agent ONE]

...

That's not the true failing of the 3rd season though. The real failing was whiny bitchass Rodimus Prime. At the end of the movie, he was all poised to take leadersihp, but then as of the first post moive ep, he was all Macross 7. ..

Fixed it for ya.

LOL

Galvatron was a badass in the movie, but became a keystone cop in the show. I completely agree. I think part of it was the loss of Spock as the vioce actor.

[Keith]

Fixed it for ya.

LOL

Galvatron was a badass in the movie, but became a keystone cop in the show. I completely agree. I think part of it was the loss of Spock as the vioce actor.

Hey now, nobody; was ever whiny or emo in Macross 7. You may not have liked what Basara was doing, but he was doing it passionately & in the enemies face. Never was there a moment of "maybe i'm not good enough, & maybe blah blah balh."

[Renato]

I think TF the Movie, with all its faults, is really enjoyable and well-made. The series, however, in particular series 3, is just nostalgic for me. I was an enormous TF fan as a kid, and this show was my life. But as an adult, it's not something that I watch now or would ever bother nitpicking in terms of continuity errors and contradictions.

In a way, I feel the same about the postwar arc of SDF Mac. I mean, the story was over; it just seems like they were dragging stuff on. Rodimus Prime's lack of confidence as leader in TF S3 and the post-apocalyptic trauma in Macross were both really mature themes that I'm glad are there, but they are not really fleshed out enough or are mired by other odd occurrences in the respective plots. At the end of the day, they are just cartoons, while DYRL and TFTM are for some reason cartoons that I can still enjoy on their own merits as movies, not just because of nostalgia.

And Agent ONE, what the hell. I'm amazed that after 16 years, you still can't overcome your urge to get one random cheap shot at a show nobody even mentioned. Jeez, get over it. We're talking about Transformers here in this thread (oh, and about fifteen other threads, too. No, I haven't forgotten).

Edited September 9, 2010 by Renato