Reïvaj Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 That’s a big change from the series, where she didn’t bother to change her name since the 117th Research Fleet’s time.
Tobi54 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) So have anyone's impressions of the movie changed after multiple viewings? For better or for worse. Speaking of missing music, there's a really awesome song that plays when Alto and Brera are fighting on Gallia IV that I'm pretty sure is not in any of the OSTs. I might have to rip it myself. I guess this is a bit OT since it's about the series. It's been for the better for me, I've seen it 3 times. The low point of the movie for me it's the jail concert/Sheryl's breakout. The high points IMO is Ranka's concert scene, and the whole third act. When it comes to Ranka's concert scene, I'm still in awe of how well designed it was, the direction, choreography, use of color, I'd put it up against any similar Disney production, it's that good. IMO it's a great example of mixing the old with the new, it has that old school anime feel when it comes to the design (It reminded me of the DAICON shorts) while using new animation technology. The third act is just mind blowing, the scale of the action scenes is huge, all perfectly synced to the songs, which IMO are not as good as the ones from The False Diva, but still good, I can't even begin to imagine how much work was put into the last 30 minutes of the movie. The songs that I think are in the same level as the ones from the first movie are The End of Triangle, Houkago Overflow and Niji iro Kuma Kuma, in other words I like Ranka's songs better, other songs might grow on me later, but the one that just didn't do anything for me was the Elixir song, especially compared to something like Universal Bunny from the first movie (song AND concert sequence). I think it's worth noting how much Hiroshi Yagishita has grown up during these Macross productions, the TV series was great, the first movie was a step forward, and this last movie is his best work to date by a long shot IMO, if I could make one request it would be for the one on one dog fights to be longer, I'm sorry, I've been spoiled by Plus and Zero. I really can't wait to see what's in store for Macross after this. Edited November 17, 2011 by Tobi54
Kelsain Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Is it just me, or did the EX Gears get almost as much screen time as the VF's in these movies? Not that I had a problem with it, just that they really seemed to be embraced as part of macross, rather than an extra bit of nify. Edited November 18, 2011 by Kelsain
Mercurial Morpheus Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Speaking of missing music, there's a really awesome song that plays when Alto and Brera are fighting on Gallia IV that I'm pretty sure is not in any of the OSTs. I might have to rip it myself. I guess this is a bit OT since it's about the series. Westfall actually did a fantastic rundown of all the unreleased music from the series. It can be found here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=29151 As you can see, a huge portion of the music is unreleased. Score just takes a massive backseat to songs. He's actually ripped a lot of it himself. What's the name of the track? I'll look into it.
David Hingtgen Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 There's a "more foreboding" variation of one of the main themes that is played in ep 2 that is RIGHT when Ranka has her first flashback, when Ozma's fighting the vajra. It's my favorite cue in the whole series, and it's not on any of the released CD's AFAIK. It has more "pipe organ" in it than the other versions. ::checks:: Starts right at 3 mins in, peaks at around 3:15.
Mercurial Morpheus Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Yep, that's in his collection. Though sadly, Frontier is mixed in 2.0, so it's got ALL the dialog in it and I'd have no clue how to minimize it. Thankfully, the movie's 5.1, and most of the dialog is entirely in the center channel (with a bit of the music as well, so it's not a perfect method). It still has sound and echo effects, but is a lot less distraction filled. 02 - Hard Chase.mp3 Though reviewing the thread, it apparently shows up in one of the concerts. So I may see about ripping from that. I remember a lot of great instrumental medleys in there anyway. Edited November 18, 2011 by Mercurial Morpheus
Raptor One Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Westfall actually did a fantastic rundown of all the unreleased music from the series. It can be found here: http://www.macrosswo...showtopic=29151 As you can see, a huge portion of the music is unreleased. Score just takes a massive backseat to songs. He's actually ripped a lot of it himself. What's the name of the track? I'll look into it. I remember reading a bit of that thread when it was first being worked on but I didn't really care about BGM as much back then. Silly me . The track I'm referring to is "Rising Armada" from Memory of Global though.
rankalee Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Gondunwa, depending on how it's translated. O'Connor has always been just an alias (at least that's the impression I get). Wha?? I saw macross f series and Leon says: Grace O' Connor. But in the movie says another thing....
azrael Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Wha?? I saw macross f series and Leon says: Grace O' Connor. But in the movie says another thing.... Bad translation...
Zor Primus Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Just got done seeing it for the second time. Loved it! Really enjoyed the fact it was a continuation of the first movie. Ending similar to the series and leaving open the 3rd film for a completely new story. All the new songs were great and they picked the right mix of older ones to move the story forward. That last was EPIC! how many Macross class ships did we see? 5? 6? Pure awesome. My laptop couldn't hang in some scenes, Brera vs Ozma was very choppy, gotta get to my home PC to enjoy it fully. I'll give it a 5 out of 5 stars. Couple of nods to the original series when Alto was laid out, then again when he was hugging Ranka goodbye. Hello Mac7 facsimile Fire Bomber...and of course Mac+ with the YF-19. Can't wait to see whats next! Oh...this screenshot gave me goosebumps:
Killer Robot Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 Is it just me, or did the EX Gears get almost as much screen time as the VF's in these movies? Not that I had a problem with it, just that they really seemed to be embraced as part of macross, rather than an extra bit of nify. I actually really appreciated this. Macross has always had to work to really intermix mecha action with personal involvement beyond just pilots, and it's especially challenging in the theme of "a ship out in space" such that the VFs have to be outside of their intended environment to even be where the people are. Apart from the usual bridge conversations and girl in VF hand rescues, giant sized Zentradi give a great way of interacting mecha and people directly, and now Ex-Gears approach that another way, and seem natural enough in the setting besides.
Zinjo Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) That last was EPIC! how many Macross class ships did we see? 5? 6? Pure awesome. My laptop couldn't hang in some scenes, Brera vs Ozma was very choppy, gotta get to my home PC to enjoy it fully. I'll give it a 5 out of 5 stars. Couple of nods to the original series when Alto was laid out, then again when he was hugging Ranka goodbye. Hello Mac7 facsimile Fire Bomber...and of course Mac+ with the YF-19. Can't wait to see whats next! Oh...this screenshot gave me goosebumps: Bandai marketing's wet dream.... Edited November 19, 2011 by Zinjo
ps99042 Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 Called in "sick" to finally find the time to watch this. Definitely a great production though I think I need to rewatch the 1st movie to fully appreciate everything in the 2nd. Still, the final 3rd of the film was just ridiculous in terms of eye candy and it really brought out some great characterization. My only question now: what do we get next?
deadghost Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) Being that this is my first post in god knows how long. I'll make my contribution. I finally saw the first & second movie, and I will admit it was better then the episodes. The only good scene, and I mean the ONLY good scene, was Isamu's cameo. But seriously, I felt the whole movie/episode series was a bit tacky and predictable to DYRL. Call me old school, but I expected a more serous tone, and a fresh plot, and story line. The kid in me cried asking "WTF have you done to my childhood, where the f@#$ are the VF-4's that were promised to me in Flashabck". I think Shoji slacked off on this series, that or he was taking some really good booger sugar during the production. Call me weird or strange but I think Altos whole boy gone homo with the Kabuki actor/actress bit was a little awkward...maybe its just me. I seriously thought that Shoji was going to continue on where he left off with Macross flash back, it was perfect material to start off the ideal "Frontier" series, that vintage style was too perfect, I cant see why they couldn't use that? I got the whole "make peace with nature metaphor", but when haven't I heard that in the series, Shoji needs to step up his game. ~2 cents Oh snap its my 420'th post, you know what that means..... Edited November 19, 2011 by deadghost
reeoyuy Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 Call me weird or strange but I think Altos whole boy gone homo with the Kabuki actor/actress bit was a little awkward...maybe its just me. This is something that westerners hard to grasp (even little Sheryl was surprised), that male kabuki actor playing female role is very common tradition and not related to their sexual preferences. It's something that Japanese think as normal, as seen in more modern form such as Japanese male fashion or visual kei. I think Alto being former Kabuki performer that has conflict with his dad is important to his development. And much more interesting comparing to him being just a random highschooler.
sketchley Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 This is something that westerners hard to grasp (even little Sheryl was surprised), that male kabuki actor playing female role is very common tradition and not related to their sexual preferences. Nah... English speakers who don't know their cultural origins find it hard to grasp. Theatre in the Shakespearean era? No female actors. Men had to play female roles.
Mercurial Morpheus Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 I remember reading a bit of that thread when it was first being worked on but I didn't really care about BGM as much back then. Silly me . The track I'm referring to is "Rising Armada" from Memory of Global though. This it? 13 - Rising Armada ~ 13.mp3 Apparently, I can't upload FLAC files here so I'll have to use an alternative for my rips. Bit more on topic, I thought it was a bit weird for there being so many Quarters. The series always seemed to suggest she was a rare bird. Can't say I cared too much for most of the paint jobs either. Also, though it's never explecitely spoken, are we to assume that Sheryl actually went along with, or at least humored, the idea of killing Ranka for her own salvation? That's rather something, when one thinks about it. I know they wanted to make Sheryl supreme by giving her the intestinal version, but if all she really needed was some blood, I'm sure Ranka would've been more than happy to obleige. Seeing as she was doing so at the end anyway. I like that solution better than the TV's wave of the hand either way.
Kelsain Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) I feel Alto's kabuki background was handled much better in the films, as well. I liked how accepting that part of himself and using it to channel the girls' song was critical to distracting the vajra queen. That enabled Brera to sneak in and take out the Galaxy Braintrust. In the show, it was little more than an excuse for his angst. I also liked how they used it as the inspiration for both Alto & Sheryl's character arcs. For the most part, I think the movies set up a very solid narrative, bringing forth only the elements from the series that could be used best. Then combining others in new ways, and answering all the questions that were put forth. My only gripes were that I wish fold quartz got a little more exposition, and the death fakeouts. I was happy to see Klan & Michel together, but I think luca should've stayed dead. Edited November 19, 2011 by Kelsain
macross_fan99 Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 Nah... English speakers who don't know their cultural origins find it hard to grasp. Theatre in the Shakespearean era? No female actors. Men had to play female roles. I was going to say the same. It was the same in Europe in the past. It is strange now, but the whole point is that Kabuki is staying traditional.
deadghost Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) Nah... English speakers who don't know their cultural origins find it hard to grasp. Theatre in the Shakespearean era? No female actors. Men had to play female roles. Right...spending majority of my life & college education studying English literature would probably do to that to me. Thanks captain obvious. Any ways, even if the whole kabuki theme was used for Altos character arc, I still say it was tacky. The context it was used in was a joke. I found it out of place for him to be prancing as a fairy maid on stage. It ruined the tone for me. Maybe it would have worked out better in any other modern anime, but not so well on a genre/series that is derived off war and metaphors from WWII. Edited November 20, 2011 by deadghost
sketchley Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Right...spending majority of my life & college education studying English literature would probably do to that to me. Who said anything about going to those extremes? Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
mechaninac Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 The one thing I found eye rollingly tacky in Sayonara No Tsubasa was the Macross Quarter channeling the Nirvash in Gallia 4's atmosphere... totally silly!
soul.assassin Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 The one thing I found eye rollingly tacky in Sayonara No Tsubasa was the Macross Quarter channeling the Nirvash in Gallia 4's atmosphere... totally silly! I think you already know that Kawamori worked on Eureka 7, so no surprises when Q went on doing the Banzai Pipeline.
mechaninac Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 I think you already know that Kawamori worked on Eureka 7, so no surprises when Q went on doing the Banzai Pipeline. Not a surprise given the E7-Kawamori connection, but that does not make it any less of a ridiculous concept and execution. It's one thing to have a small Mech surf the air and another thing entirely to have a giant transforming battle carrier do it (granted it was “falling with style”, not flying); in E7 that concept was built into that universe's “physics” and an integral part of what made that show unique... it was never a part of Macross, in any incarnation, that I can recall. The thing is that I thought the beginning of that sequence was brilliant: the Quarter using that big piece of orbital debris to use as a reentry shield equals awesome and makes sense, but then turning the remaining chunk into a surf board equals slapstick inanity. Overall, I'd say that both movies were decent in their own right (1st better than 2nd for me), with many cool visuals, battle sequences and musical choreography, but I thought the series was much better.
Tobi54 Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) Not a surprise given the E7-Kawamori connection, but that does not make it any less of a ridiculous concept and execution. It's one thing to have a small Mech surf the air and another thing entirely to have a giant transforming battle carrier do it (granted it was “falling with style”, not flying); in E7 that concept was built into that universe's “physics” and an integral part of what made that show unique... it was never a part of Macross, in any incarnation, that I can recall. The thing is that I thought the beginning of that sequence was brilliant: the Quarter using that big piece of orbital debris to use as a reentry shield equals awesome and makes sense, but then turning the remaining chunk into a surf board equals slapstick inanity. Overall, I'd say that both movies were decent in their own right (1st better than 2nd for me), with many cool visuals, battle sequences and musical choreography, but I thought the series was much better. The whole concept of having a quarter sized Macross class ship was to make it faster and more agile but not as powerful, so in a way it was built into the universe, you never see the full sized ships do something like that, they're heavier, slower and more powerful. In general I would agree with you, I always liked Macross because it's more grounded than other stuff out there, but when it comes to something like this, executed so beautifully I really don't care (you can be critical of the surfing concept not the execution). If there's a medium that can get away with it, it's anime, especially in this case. The scope, concept and choreography of this sequence puts most multi million dollar hollywood productions to shame IMO. As a matter of fact, I liked it so much I'm working on my own edit of it, which I'll post in a few minutes Edited November 20, 2011 by Tobi54
Tobi54 Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) I made so that the whole Quarter entry plays together as one scene without any cuts, timed it the best I could and modified the sound file of the second half of the video. Edited November 20, 2011 by Tobi54
Dynaman Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 I remember that being silly, but then I noticed that it was using the rock (or whatever) more as a heat shield then anything else, and I just shrugged it off at that point.
frothymug Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 I'm just going to say it: That was my favorite part of the movie. I almost stood up from my chair and cheered during that scene. I agree that it's maybe a little over-the-top, when it comes to the "keeping it real" motif they try to stick to in this series. That's one of the things that I appreciate the most about Macross. However, I think this scene was too good to allow me to retract from the quality of the movie. I love attention to detail, and every iteration of Macross is frought with it. Based on this track record, I'm willing to let it fly.
mechaninac Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 No sir, surfing pocket battle carrier just does not work for me... it just pushes my that's-is-going-way-too-far button. It does not invalidate all the other cool stuff strewn throughout the movie, but it does diminish its overall tone in my eyes.
Tobi54 Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 No sir, surfing pocket battle carrier just does not work for me... it just pushes my that's-is-going-way-too-far button. It does not invalidate all the other cool stuff strewn throughout the movie, but it does diminish its overall tone in my eyes. ok!
Raptor One Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) No sir, surfing pocket battle carrier just does not work for me... it just pushes my that's-is-going-way-too-far button. It does not invalidate all the other cool stuff strewn throughout the movie, but it does diminish its overall tone in my eyes. See for me the Quarter passed the realm of believably when it stowed the deck on it's back like a shield way back in the series. That just came off as hokey to me. The surfing sequence, on the other hand, was awesome. Partly because it was so unexpected and partly because Wilder is such a badass. Edited November 20, 2011 by Raptor One
dreamweaver13 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Hmm... been a while since I posted here, so just let me come out and say, nay, exclaim.... THAT WAS TOTALLY AWESOME!! Ok, so yeah, I was finally able to watch MF Sayonara over the weekend for the first (and second, and some specific parts, a third) time, and I still can't get over it. I loved how intense the emotions were in this movie, and the ending was a real heartstring-puller. I guess that's as much detail and review skills I can muster after having been inactive for so long. So... when's the grand reunion movie coming out (y'know, for all those who have folded to the great unknown in the sky)?
Raptor One Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) This it? 13 - Rising Armada ~ 13.mp3 Yup that's definitely it. Thanks a lot. I really wish this track had been in one of the OSTs Bit more on topic, I thought it was a bit weird for there being so many Quarters. The series always seemed to suggest she was a rare bird. Can't say I cared too much for most of the paint jobs either. I actually found this weird too. But it makes sense if you keep in mind that the series and movie verses are pretty different. Although this detail might be the same in both universes, and was just never touched upon in the series. I found it pretty surprising that SMS was an international (or would it be inter-colonial?) organization. My theory is that Bilrer founded it while on earth and it continued to grow and expand. Does anyone know if any of the supplementary materials shed any light on this? Also, though it's never explecitely spoken, are we to assume that Sheryl actually went along with, or at least humored, the idea of killing Ranka for her own salvation? That's rather something, when one thinks about it. I know they wanted to make Sheryl supreme by giving her the intestinal version, but if all she really needed was some blood, I'm sure Ranka would've been more than happy to obleige. Seeing as she was doing so at the end anyway. I like that solution better than the TV's wave of the hand either way. I'd have to watch the movie again before I can give my thoughts. But I agree that this resolution was a much better one than in the series. Although I'm not sure how exactly it worked. I guess the benign V-type organisms in Ranka's blood "taught" the one's in Sheryl's blood how to do their job without killing her? Edited November 21, 2011 by Raptor One
deadghost Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 No sir, surfing pocket battle carrier just does not work for me... it just pushes my that's-is-going-way-too-far button. It does not invalidate all the other cool stuff strewn throughout the movie, but it does diminish its overall tone in my eyes.
dreamweaver13 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Also, though it's never explecitely spoken, are we to assume that Sheryl actually went along with, or at least humored, the idea of killing Ranka for her own salvation? That's rather something, when one thinks about it. I know they wanted to make Sheryl supreme by giving her the intestinal version, but if all she really needed was some blood, I'm sure Ranka would've been more than happy to obleige. Seeing as she was doing so at the end anyway. I like that solution better than the TV's wave of the hand either way. Assuming the subs I read are relatively accurate... If we go by Grace's narration of their original plan, Sheryl knew that she was just a substitute until they found Q1. I got the impression that the plan to harvest organs from Q1 is a new suggestion offered by Grace, now that Sheryl is dying. Far as I could tell, Sheryl was not amenable to the suggestion, until Grace countered: "even if it means you won't see him anymore?". Yeah, that sure made her think for a split second at least. I would presume that Grace didn't think a blood tranfusion would work. Either that, or Grace wanted to get rid of Q1 so that Sheryl will not be discarded as dead weight. But I think even if Sheryl considered it, her ultimate resolve showed when she stopped Ranka from coming with Brera, and sacrificed herself to save Ranka when they were being sucked out of the ship.
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