Kyp Durron Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) If you're just going to be ignorant of plot points in the movie then just go ahead. Whatever. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and this is a discussion forum. Heaven forbid someone here doesn't completely love the movie and talks about the parts they didn't like. -Kyp Edited October 30, 2011 by Kyp Durron
bishopcruz Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 If the supplementary light novels were to be fan-translated, I'd be reading them because they (supposedly) supply some of those details missing and addressing the loose ends seen in both the TV series and the movies. If this flick were to be three hours, then there might be some more coherence, but since this runs to almost two hours, some things had to be cut out... not until we might get an extended Director's Cut or something. s But those novels don't help the movie. Just like the TV series doesn't help the movie either. For better or worse, the Frontier movies stand on their own, yes supplemental materials can add depth perhaps, but they don't make the story, as told, any more coherent. About half of the reviews that are currently out online mention this as well, the twists happen without enough time to process them, or give them the necessary weight. Wingis feels like someone condensed Return of the King from a nearly 4 hour movie into a 2 hour one, but decided that no scene or twist could be excised. As a result there are awesome moments there, but the film moves to quickly to have them mean all that much. If you're just going to be ignorant of plot points in the movie then just go ahead. Whatever. . Look, I love Macross, I'm not a huge poster, but I've followed the series through the Robotech days and been around for a while. I said in my previous post that the list of plot points and twists was non comprehensive, but I thought it might give insight as to what stood out, and how I saw the film. It's a bit facetious, but that is intentional and intended for a bit of levity. Some fans are exceptionally defensive about this film I have noticed, both here and on AnimeSuki. I just happen to think that the film, while a lot of fun, is quite flawed in the actual storytelling department. It's still beautiful, the characters still rock, the battles are still amazing (though the last battle was a disappointment.) but the structure and execution of the actual story were just plain bad.
Gubaba Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Look, I love Macross, I'm not a huge poster, but I've followed the series through the Robotech days and been around for a while. I said in my previous post that the list of plot points and twists was non comprehensive, but I thought it might give insight as to what stood out, and how I saw the film. It's a bit facetious, but that is intentional and intended for a bit of levity. Some fans are exceptionally defensive about this film I have noticed, both here and on AnimeSuki. I just happen to think that the film, while a lot of fun, is quite flawed in the actual storytelling department. It's still beautiful, the characters still rock, the battles are still amazing (though the last battle was a disappointment.) but the structure and execution of the actual story were just plain bad. First off, good to see you back! Next, I kind of agree and I kind of don't. Yes, the film was crammed with incident and proceeds at breakneck speed pretty much from start to finish. But I dunno, for me, the movie "worked" and I thought it was a great finish to Frontier. Admittedly, I still haven't seen it subbed, but I doubt that'll change my views much.
Kyp Durron Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 See it subbed here: http://www.gogoanime.com/macross-frontier-sayonara-no-tsubasa-movie -Kyp
azrael Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Next, I kind of agree and I kind of don't. Yes, the film was crammed with incident and proceeds at breakneck speed pretty much from start to finish. But I dunno, for me, the movie "worked" and I thought it was a great finish to Frontier. I'm probably in the same boat but I'll get to that point in a minute. It "worked" for the movie, but I had issues with how it played out. The whole thing with Frontier/Galaxy-conspiracy thing, IMO, was best handled in the TV series. I did not like how it was handled at all in the movies. The Brera-"No Ranka. I am your Brother."-thing felt a little ESB-ish. Overall, yeah was a lot to take in at only two 2-hour doses compared to 25 weekly 25-minute doses, but it worked for the movies even though it felt it was jammed in there. Like Graham I agree with the idea that seeing the YF-29 in action didn't really sway me into liking it. The "It's just there to sell a new Valk"-feeling is sticking. Compared to the 1st movie, I'm with David; the 1st movie felt better than this. But to my point, if this movie used some of its plot parts as a continuation and finale to the TV series, I think it would have been perfect. Some of the plot points would have fit in there perfectly. Galaxy taking over Battle Frontier would actually work pretty damn well with the TV series. They never mentioned what happened with the Galaxy mainland in the TV series. Having Galaxy come to Frontier and the Vajra homeworld to re-attempt the network after Grace's failed attempt would work and would bring better closure. It would also make use of some of the elements that I felt were crammed into the movies (like the NUNS/S.M.S. fleet that somehow got the message and mobilized a ridiculously large QRF in 30-minutes of movie time).
soul.assassin Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) I thought a big deal for a while, and figured that since I'm done with the Frontier universe, I'm now motivated to pick up SDFM and rediscover that old-time religion. For better or for worse, SnT did more to affect me than any other movie I watched through this year; it blew me out of the water. Edited October 30, 2011 by soul.assassin
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 I loved the movie. Yeah some things just don't click with me. But overall I thoroughly enjoyed it. I like the lovely bomber concert. The fake out deaths, and come on. The Macross Quarter surfing and Isamu making a cameo..How could you not love this movie in the end!? Speaking of the ends, is Alto forever gone? Or is it like some people have been saying that he "comes back" when Sheryl starts singing in her coma and here earring sparkles? As for the YF-29. I though it was a pretty cool Valk for plot purpose, but overall...eh. I'd still take the VF-25 or if it was possible Isamu VF-19 or a VF-22.
Killer Robot Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 I can understand that the Frontier movies cram things together in ways that expect you to have seen the TV series and know how to fill in the gaps in your mind, and that's a fair criticism. On the other hand, if we wish to use those standards I can say that DYRL was by comparison an unwatchable plotless mess of a movie with some cool battle scenes and some nice music. Because that's what it was to me when I hadn't seen the TV series. Ahead of some movies like Akira and X in hanging together without knowing the source material at least. Judging as someone who had seen the TV series, I thought it was pretty awesome though. As for the conspiracy angle, like many things I like both approaches in different ways. Frontier TV felt like it was making a lot up as it went along and cultivating deliberate mysteries to fill in later, like Lost or Battlestar Galactica, though only in a single season. A lot of details felt tacked on, or only thought out late in the game, not just in the conspiracy side but in general. Brera felt almost like an actual character in the movies, something I would have not felt possible in the TV show where he felt like some vestige of an earlier plot plan that got dropped half developed. Heavier use of EX-Gear in the movies was nice too: it seems in the TV show they thought "Hey, let's make an ejection seat that's also a jet pack" with the exoskeleton angle as an afterthought, and only late did they realize "wait, we put human sized power armor in the setting, this changes everything." Alto and Ranka's personalities felt more settled and natural in the movies too, as did Ranka's stage personality and musical style. To go on to music, the last I'm imagining also came out of Megumi Nakajima better maturing as a singer and Yoko Kanno getting a better feel for writing for her, and hitting just the right niche with her music this time. The same happened with May'n, just much earlier: I think she hit a (high) plateau with Northern Cross and kept solid since. Speaking of which, the a capella version really caught me off guard, I didn't realize what I was listening to at first. Ranka's concert also was adorable to the point of pain. The switch from Sheryl knowing nothing to knowing just about everything was dramatic. Maybe a bit too much of a reversal, I'm not sure yet, but it was a step ahead of keeping everything dark from her just for the sake of better keeping it dark from the audience for most of a TV season. The final ramp up and ending battle: I liked the TV show in a lot of ways. I miss Leon betraying Glass, but this had enough double-crosses already: Leon getting the drop on Grace so thoroughly before having it finally fall apart on him was great, but there really wasn't room for both. Related, it was nice to see Grace not be a total monster in the end, even if I loved the TV show turning her from Sheryl's long-suffering manager into the end boss. The VF-29 grew on me and wasn't any more blatant a toy grab than a great many things in Macross series. The final battle was pretty sweet some ways, not quite as good as TV some others. And Alto's final choice I respect as a way to give in to fan demands to have an actual decision. Personally I loved the TV ending: a big point of the TV relationship to me was that Alto's last chance to actually think of picking one girl over another fairly vanished at a certain coughing fit ten episodes earlier, and only after the ending was it something to even think about again. And the "Macross Zero" open ended lost romance thing I think is mitigated a little by the hints in the credits, though this does kinda give a new answer the "will Sheryl sing herself to death to make a tragic/heroic ending?" questions people were asking late in the TV run. Other slight notices: where Sheryl's prisoner record appears two others are shown. One shares the last name (but not first) and English wikipedia entry of a Russian mobster that died in 2009, and the other has the name "Frank McVeigh." I was stunned, not to see Nanase, but to see her not in a uniform of some sort. Also, Sheryl sure loves to wrap up movies with really low-hanging beltlines: Finally, the sadness of seeing an end to Frontier is balanced by the relief of never having to hear Aimo again. Well, until it gets covered in a future series.
valid Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 yeah .. after seing this last movie.. i just feel sad.. and sorrow.. when will be another macross series.. i just wish in 2012 there' will be another series.. perhaps about the megaroad.. man .. i missed hikaru..
soul.assassin Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 We have next year to wait for, so don't worry.
Bri Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 [...] As for the conspiracy angle, like many things I like both approaches in different ways. Frontier TV felt like it was making a lot up as it went along and cultivating deliberate mysteries to fill in later, like Lost or Battlestar Galactica, though only in a single season. A lot of details felt tacked on, or only thought out late in the game, not just in the conspiracy side but in general. [...] Good point. The movies had the benefit of cherry picking the plotpoints of the TV-series that worked and streamlining the whole. I enjoyed how the movies managed to better integrate the triangle and Alto's family background in the overal storyline. In the TV series it was more it like Ozma and Cathy were investigating a government conspiracy while the main triangle remained separate of events till the final arc. Another thing I liked was the increased focus on the actual Frontier story rather then the triangle which at times really dominated other events in the TV-series.
VF5SS Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 I never found DYRL to be incomprehensible without the TV series. Some things you could just take at face value like any old sci-fi movie. With regards to some things the refugee from the apatosaurus preserve said, Luka was not inexplicable alive again when they totally show Mikhail saving him from being spaced. Like when he talks about being saved they show it. Now about the fleet that comes to help the Quarter, I think that just points to SMS and NUNS having a larger presence in the galaxy than previously thought. SMS is tied to the Frontier fleet and they could have been in contact with a nearby NUNS fleet to come to the rescue. I don't think the movie implied they came all the way from Earth but whatever.
charger69 Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 I don't know if someone noticed before but: In MF SnT Brera using "Mind Targeting" just like Roy did in MZero with "Eye Targeting", such a nice homage!
Gubaba Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 I don't know if someone noticed before but: In MF SnT Brera using "Mind Targeting" just like Roy did in MZero with "Eye Targeting", such a nice homage! They had that in the Frontier TV series as well, though, right...?
regult Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Pretty much, this film is essentially Macross Porn. Not high quality porn like EP 26, but Bang Bus style nasty stuff. Yeah it gets you off, but you feel kinda dirty afterwards.
VF5SS Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Brera targeting stuff with his eyes closed was supposed to be like Guld in Macross Plus. They were big on showing his eyeballs moving around underneath his eyelids. gotta feel the machine inside you
Gubaba Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Brera targeting stuff with his eyes closed was supposed to be like Guld in Macross Plus. They were big on showing his eyeballs moving around underneath his eyelids. gotta feel the machine inside you As always, good point.
nanoplasm Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Beach scene: this is the only fanservice that I could really complain about. Although it was nice scenery, it was an excuse to get the girls into bikini tops that were a little too tight and maybe they were drawn with some extra curves, if you know what I mean. I rolled my eyes, but smiled anyway... it was nice to look at. I laughed so hard when Ozma caught Alto with his arm around Ranka. Captain Wilder on a surfboard? Hang ten, Cap! Don't forget Bobby in that awesome one piece. =)
kanedaestes Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Loved it, great film, doesn't feel long because so much is going on. Wish there was a bit more action though but it isn't that missed really because of everything else. I didn't like the ending that much. It's a great ending but......felt a little to.....Gundam 00: Awakening of the Trailblazer-ish to me. Would've like to see it go another way. MAYBE Shoji is planning on bringing all these missing characters back for the 30th Anniversary that would be awesome! It does seem like they are all going to the same place. The center of the galaxy. Imagine that, all of a sudden a fold opens and out comes Vajra with Hikaru, Misa, Minmei, Shin and Sara, and Alto like towards the end of the next series.
charger69 Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) The center of the galaxy. Imagine that, all of a sudden a fold opens and out comes Vajra with Hikaru, Misa, Minmei, Shin and Sara, and Alto like towards the end of the next series. Insert nyan cat animated gif there Here it is Edited October 30, 2011 by charger69
Gubaba Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Insert nyan cat animated gif there Here it is This works, too...
Radd Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 One thing I gotta say, watching this movie makes me more sad than I already was that the Bandai DX Quarter apparently didn't sell all that well. I'd love to add a movie version of the Quarter to my collection. I didn't really get a feel for just how different it was from the tv series version in that first movie. I knew the guns were different, but didn't realize that it had a very different bridge design. Not just the "ears" but the tower itself is shaped differently. It's more similar to Battle Frontier's bridge in a way. I kinda want the whole set of the SMS support fleet in various degrees of transformation hanging from my ceiling like they're descending from orbit, guns blazing! I do wish the Macross fleet ships would get more toy love, even as snap together model kits.
NastyNate Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) The ending sure was kind of sad. But maybe alto will come back and sheryl will wake up like ranka said. One thing I really liked about the movie is how Michael survived and he and klan klan finally hooked up. Also am I the only one that can not stand sheryls singing? I feel bad about it because it is so dramatic and important but to me it sounds like a cat dying. Edited October 30, 2011 by NastyNate
Killer Robot Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Also am I the only one that can not stand sheryls singing? I feel bad about it because it is so dramatic and important but to me it sounds like a cat dying. I love her singing, I will just admit that in some pieces she gets way too breathy. Her version of Aimo on that one soundtrack CD was the best example there.
frothymug Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 But maybe alto will come back and sheryl will wake up like ranka said. One thing I really liked about the movie is how Michael survived and he and klan klan finally hooked up. As I mentioned in my lengthy "review" earlier in the thread, it seems that the relationships are already implied. The supporting cast really didn't get much screen time, so you didn't see any kind of "struggle" in their connections. To me, it seemed that Michael and Klan were already more than just good childhood friends. However, nothing in the movie actually supports that fact. I just assume that from their behavior together. You see her hanging on his arm in a few instances. To me, that says, "we're more than just friends". I love her singing, I will just admit that in some pieces she gets way too breathy. Her version of Aimo on that one soundtrack CD was the best example there. ^this Other than that, I like a lot of her singing. She just sometimes tries too hard.
Vegas Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 The movie was good. BRAVO! Tears of joy when i saw that YF-19 made a cameo
Heron Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Seeing this made my day, hell made my year...at least for anime. Way to go! Bravo indeed!
Raptor One Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) Not sure if this has been discussed already but is it confirmed which model -19 Isamu was flying? I'm assuming it was a VF-19A or B done up in the scheme of his YF-19 but I guess it could be a modified version of his original YF-19 since it survived Macross Plus. Edited October 31, 2011 by Raptor One
azrael Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Not sure if this has been discussed already but is it confirmed which model -19 Isamu was flying? I'm assuming it was a VF-19A or B done up in the scheme of his YF-19 but I guess it could be a modified version of his original YF-19 since it survived Macross Plus. I believe they just say VF-19. Which? They don't say nor should you care. It's just a freakin' cameo.
Raptor One Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Lol can't a brotha be curious? Thanks for the response though. I was mostly wondering if it was the YF or the VF and now I have my answer. Loved the cameo, even though I was spoiled it was still epic.
Vegas Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 I've rewatched the movie in 3d, awesome! The dog fights atleast.
Product9 Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Forgive me if this has been covered, and I know I'm grasping at straws here, but... well that's what fans tend to do. Anyway, I noticed this when watching the sub... The guy in the middle of those three... the shape and color of his hair looks familiar. Are you thinking who I'm thinking?
valid Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Forgive me if this has been covered, and I know I'm grasping at straws here, but... well that's what fans tend to do. Anyway, I noticed this when watching the sub... The guy in the middle of those three... the shape and color of his hair looks familiar. Are you thinking who I'm thinking? one of the nun's pilot?
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