Star Wars on Blu-ray in 2011

[anime52k8]

Hold on a second. There where extended cuts of the Star Trek movies?

[eugimon]

Lightsabers make everything better, don't you know this?

As far as context goes, here ya go: George Lucas' 1988 Congressional Testimony

Well then, you're wildly taking that quote out of context and applying it to a situation that doesn't even begin to approach parity, and you know it. These are George's movies, you can say all you want that he didn't direct Empire or Jedi but those movies were made because George wanted them and they would never have been made without him. They're *his* and he gets to decide what to do with them... not a committee.

Sure he did, when he made them available for purchase.

*zing*

Okay, and I have two choices in response, I can buy it or I can choose not to buy it. Anything else is at best morally, ethically and legally grey.

Well

[Keith]

For those wondering, I completely took out the part about asking what people thought of the ST movie changes not making it to bluray, intending to move it over to the theatrical cut topic, but whatever

Hold on a second. There where extended cuts of the Star Trek movies?

Yup. ST I became longer, some of the effects shots were changed (like the grossly mishapen Enterprise saucer landing on V'ger & new matte paintings of Vulcan), and more exterior shots were added. Current story is that the newer cuts were only rendered in SD, so there's nothing to upscale. ST II had some subtle additions like making the young engineer cadet Scotty's nephew, and ST VI had various odds & ends added, like a reveal of who the sniper was at the end (hint: It was Odo). None of these extended cuts made it to bluray, enough though ST:I was the only one with a valid reason not to.

[taksraven]

Yup. ST I became longer, some of the effects shots were changed (like the grossly mishapen Enterprise saucer landing on V'ger & new matte paintings of Vulcan), and more exterior shots were added. Current story is that the newer cuts were only rendered in SD, so there's nothing to upscale. ST II had some subtle additions like making the young engineer cadet Scotty's nephew, and ST VI had various odds & ends added, like a reveal of who the sniper was at the end (hint: It was Odo). None of these extended cuts made it to bluray, enough though ST:I was the only one with a valid reason not to.

That's really too bad about TMP, I like the "new" version.

[JB0]

And that's great. I don't know the context of that quote and what it applies to. What I do know is that SW is George's creation. And just because his work has become a piece of modern pop culture, doesn't give the fans or society at large, creative control over what he created.

1988. He was one of several filmmakers speaking before Congress for them to do something to preserve our nation's films, in part because they were against the colorization of existing black&white movies and television shows.

http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-speaks-altering-films-1988/

Another choice quote is this one: "A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history."

It's interesting to note that Stephen Spielberg was ALSO one of these folks.

Though he's apparently since disavowed the edited ET, says it will never happen again to any of his films, and tells people to watch the original version(which he also says was included with the edited version in the DVD release... which is news to me).

This is just another variant of the same argument ever since the first "Han shot first!" was screamed across a theater. It's the same debate as always, and if we've not reached a consensus by now, then we're not going to.

I WILL, however, state that I have absolutely no intention of buying ANY edited version of Star Wars.

If, as Lucas said, these movies belong to the American people, then it's not about Lucas not giving me the version I want, but his defacing of history and robbing future generations of their cultural heritage.

If it's his movie to do with as he pleases, then I STILL have the right to my own opinions and can spend my money how I choose. And my personal opinion is that the edits stink, and I choose to not buy any release without the option of the original version, nor to watch any edited release.

I'm skipping the prequels, edited or not, because they're just bad movies. Same reason I don't own Alien: Resurrection.

[Black Valkyrie]

Just for rent, even if as a die hard SW fan.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Black Valkyrie

[ae_productions]

Hold on a second. There where extended cuts of the Star Trek movies?

You want to know something weird? My mom and dad have a taped VHS copy of TWOK they got off the TV.

It has several scenes that differ from the theatrical or DVD SE cut.

One scene in particular, is the elevator scene with Kristie Alley discussing her performance on the Kobyoshi Maru with Kirk. It's a 3 camera scene (cu of kirk, cu of Savvak), then wide with both. It's cut completely different.

So, there are at least 3 versions of TWOK that I know of.

[Duke Togo]

You want to know something weird? My mom and dad have a taped VHS copy of TWOK they got off the TV.

It has several scenes that differ from the theatrical or DVD SE cut.

One scene in particular, is the elevator scene with Kristie Alley discussing her performance on the Kobyoshi Maru with Kirk. It's a 3 camera scene (cu of kirk, cu of Savvak), then wide with both. It's cut completely different.

So, there are at least 3 versions of TWOK that I know of.

WTF is TWOK?

[ae_productions]

WTF is TWOK?

TWOK: The Wrath of Khan (Star Trek II).

[taksraven]

WTF is TWOK?

OMG!!! (That means Oh My God!!!) :P

You want to know something weird? My mom and dad have a taped VHS copy of TWOK they got off the TV.

It has several scenes that differ from the theatrical or DVD SE cut.

One scene in particular, is the elevator scene with Kristie Alley discussing her performance on the Kobyoshi Maru with Kirk. It's a 3 camera scene (cu of kirk, cu of Savvak), then wide with both. It's cut completely different.

So, there are at least 3 versions of TWOK that I know of.

Back in the 70's and 80's, from what I understand, TV networks often used to show their own "edits" of films, quite often using footage never seen before and in some cases since. This was especially true with the first two Superman films, as they both used scenes on TV that were not used in the later DVD releases.

Khan is the same.

[Agent ONE]

TWOK: The Wrath of Khan (Star Trek II).

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

To think, you would imagine people around here would know that. Awesome. Were you being funny, or were you serious?

[Duke Togo]

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

To think, you would imagine people around here would know that. Awesome. Were you being funny, or were you serious?

I always refer to it as just Khan. *shrug* I'm not a Trek fan and I don't have a lot of friends who are Star Trek fans (atleast, none that ever talk about it), but I can't say I've ever heard or seen it referred to as TWOK.

[Keith]

Hmm..back on topic, even though it's my fault we went off, just finished Jedi, and I've come to the realization that the more you watch the newer cuts, the less the changes really stand out. Maybe it has something to do with watching Clone Wars too, but the little differences just don't seem to mean much anymore, at least to me.

Something else that stood out to me while watching Sith, the whole bit about Padme's death. That bit has continued to not quite "click" right, and up until recent I'd assumed that Palpatine had somehow Force-killed her. But how? Then I started thinking about it again. The whole scene where Palp's discusses Darth Plagueis to entice Anakin has always stood out to me the most from the film. Not only could he manipulate midiclorian's to create life (Anakin), but he could also use them to prolong his own life, and prevent his loved ones from dying. He taught his apprentice (Palpatine) everything he knew before dying (being assasinated by his apprentice) except for the keeping loved ones alive. Now the carrot was always the thing about preventing people from dying, and at this point, I don't think that ability ever existed. But we do know from Yoda that the Force does connect people, and allows things such as both Anakin & Luke to have visions about people they care about.

So, here comes that new limb I'm going out on. What's going on when Padme is dying? Anakin is also dying, in fact, the two things seem to happen concurrently. Problem is, there's no reason Padme should be dying, and that much is spelled out, while there's just as little reason for why Anakin should be able to hold on. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. Palpatine tell's Anakin that "he" killed Padme. Was this a lie to piss him off? Or was it a partial truth. How exactly did Plagueis manipulate the force to keep himself alive? How did Palpatine do it? How did Anakin manage to live thrrough being sliced & roasted? Palpatine used the force to keep his appretice alive by sponging off of Padme's life. Finally, a theory about that mess that makes total sense, and has plenty of allusion within the story itself to be plausable.

[Dobber]

You know that is not a bad theory. I kind of like it.

Chris

[taksraven]

Hmm..back on topic, even though it's my fault we went off, just finished Jedi, and I've come to the realization that the more you watch the newer cuts, the less the changes really stand out. Maybe it has something to do with watching Clone Wars too, but the little differences just don't seem to mean much anymore, at least to me.

Something else that stood out to me while watching Sith, the whole bit about Padme's death. That bit has continued to not quite "click" right, and up until recent I'd assumed that Palpatine had somehow Force-killed her. But how? Then I started thinking about it again. The whole scene where Palp's discusses Darth Plagueis to entice Anakin has always stood out to me the most from the film. Not only could he manipulate midiclorian's to create life (Anakin), but he could also use them to prolong his own life, and prevent his loved ones from dying. He taught his apprentice (Palpatine) everything he knew before dying (being assasinated by his apprentice) except for the keeping loved ones alive. Now the carrot was always the thing about preventing people from dying, and at this point, I don't think that ability ever existed. But we do know from Yoda that the Force does connect people, and allows things such as both Anakin & Luke to have visions about people they care about.

So, here comes that new limb I'm going out on. What's going on when Padme is dying? Anakin is also dying, in fact, the two things seem to happen concurrently. Problem is, there's no reason Padme should be dying, and that much is spelled out, while there's just as little reason for why Anakin should be able to hold on. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. Palpatine tell's Anakin that "he" killed Padme. Was this a lie to piss him off? Or was it a partial truth. How exactly did Plagueis manipulate the force to keep himself alive? How did Palpatine do it? How did Anakin manage to live thrrough being sliced & roasted? Palpatine used the force to keep his appretice alive by sponging off of Padme's life. Finally, a theory about that mess that makes total sense, and has plenty of allusion within the story itself to be plausable.

Interesting theory, but I don't think that GL knows what was happening, it was purely "making up the shite as he went along" and I doubt that he put as much thought into it as you have.

Ever thought of becoming a screen writer?

[Duke Togo]

Hmm..back on topic, even though it's my fault we went off, just finished Jedi, and I've come to the realization that the more you watch the newer cuts, the less the changes really stand out. Maybe it has something to do with watching Clone Wars too, but the little differences just don't seem to mean much anymore, at least to me.

Something else that stood out to me while watching Sith, the whole bit about Padme's death. That bit has continued to not quite "click" right, and up until recent I'd assumed that Palpatine had somehow Force-killed her. But how? Then I started thinking about it again. The whole scene where Palp's discusses Darth Plagueis to entice Anakin has always stood out to me the most from the film. Not only could he manipulate midiclorian's to create life (Anakin), but he could also use them to prolong his own life, and prevent his loved ones from dying. He taught his apprentice (Palpatine) everything he knew before dying (being assasinated by his apprentice) except for the keeping loved ones alive. Now the carrot was always the thing about preventing people from dying, and at this point, I don't think that ability ever existed. But we do know from Yoda that the Force does connect people, and allows things such as both Anakin & Luke to have visions about people they care about.

So, here comes that new limb I'm going out on. What's going on when Padme is dying? Anakin is also dying, in fact, the two things seem to happen concurrently. Problem is, there's no reason Padme should be dying, and that much is spelled out, while there's just as little reason for why Anakin should be able to hold on. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. Palpatine tell's Anakin that "he" killed Padme. Was this a lie to piss him off? Or was it a partial truth. How exactly did Plagueis manipulate the force to keep himself alive? How did Palpatine do it? How did Anakin manage to live thrrough being sliced & roasted? Palpatine used the force to keep his appretice alive by sponging off of Padme's life. Finally, a theory about that mess that makes total sense, and has plenty of allusion within the story itself to be plausable.

KotOR force bond? I dunno, but her death is just horribly handled. I never quite figured out how she moved around as well as she did 9 months pregnant with twins in her.

[myk]

I always assumed that Hayden was so powerful, what with his high Midichlorian count, that when he forced choked Natalie he irreparably damaged her own midichlorians to the point where she would appear to be medically healthy but still dying; this is assuming of course that non-Jedi/Sith even have midichlorians to begin with-someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Of course, there's the CGI medical droid's assessment that she just "lost the will to live..."

Edited September 22, 2011 by myk

[azrael]

...

Something else that stood out to me while watching Sith, the whole bit about Padme's death. T...

That's actually not a bad theory that this "power" would feed on others to keep someone else alive.

[BeyondTheGrave]

I always assumed that Hayden was so powerful, what with his high Midichlorian count, that when he forced choked Natalie he irreparably damaged her own midichlorians to the point where she would appear to be medically healthy but still dying; this is assuming of course that non-Jedi/Sith even have midichlorians to begin with-someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Of course, there's the CGI medical droid's assessment that she just "lost the will to live..."

If her love for anikin was strong enough then i believ it it possible for her to just give living. It her selfish of her due to the fact that she just gave birth to twins. One would think that would give her a very very good reason to live.

[Uxi]

If her love for anikin was strong enough then i believ it it possible for her to just give living. It her selfish of her due to the fact that she just gave birth to twins. One would think that would give her a very very good reason to live.

Yeah. I always like the idea that Anakin drained out her mojo to stay alive, possibly subconsciously but perhaps deliberately. Maybe that will make it in a future edit. They could make that droid say anything in the subtitle and everyone's reaction would stay the same.

[RD Blade]

Hmm..back on topic, even though it's my fault we went off, just finished Jedi, and I've come to the realization that the more you watch the newer cuts, the less the changes really stand out. Maybe it has something to do with watching Clone Wars too, but the little differences just don't seem to mean much anymore, at least to me.

Something else that stood out to me while watching Sith, the whole bit about Padme's death. That bit has continued to not quite "click" right, and up until recent I'd assumed that Palpatine had somehow Force-killed her. But how? Then I started thinking about it again. The whole scene where Palp's discusses Darth Plagueis to entice Anakin has always stood out to me the most from the film. Not only could he manipulate midiclorian's to create life (Anakin), but he could also use them to prolong his own life, and prevent his loved ones from dying. He taught his apprentice (Palpatine) everything he knew before dying (being assasinated by his apprentice) except for the keeping loved ones alive. Now the carrot was always the thing about preventing people from dying, and at this point, I don't think that ability ever existed. But we do know from Yoda that the Force does connect people, and allows things such as both Anakin & Luke to have visions about people they care about.

So, here comes that new limb I'm going out on. What's going on when Padme is dying? Anakin is also dying, in fact, the two things seem to happen concurrently. Problem is, there's no reason Padme should be dying, and that much is spelled out, while there's just as little reason for why Anakin should be able to hold on. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. Palpatine tell's Anakin that "he" killed Padme. Was this a lie to piss him off? Or was it a partial truth. How exactly did Plagueis manipulate the force to keep himself alive? How did Palpatine do it? How did Anakin manage to live thrrough being sliced & roasted? Palpatine used the force to keep his appretice alive by sponging off of Padme's life. Finally, a theory about that mess that makes total sense, and has plenty of allusion within the story itself to be plausable.

That's brilliant.

[JB0]

Wait, am I the only person that heard that "theory" about Palpatine stealing Amidala's life force for Anakin back when Revenge of the Sith was NEW? I thought that was.... well, as obvious as anything could be without it degenerating into a monologue.

If I recall(and it's been a while, so correct me if I'm wrong), they even cut back and forth with Amidala getting worse as Anakin stabilizes.

Edited September 22, 2011 by JB0

[PetarB]

George Lucas has gone to far this time.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/4Z3r9X8OahA

Edited September 22, 2011 by PetarB

[Keith]

Wait, am I the only person that heard that "theory" about Palpatine stealing Amidala's life force for Anakin back when Revenge of the Sith was NEW? I thought that was.... well, as obvious as anything could be without it degenerating into a monologue.

If I recall(and it's been a while, so correct me if I'm wrong), they even cut back and forth with Amidala getting worse as Anakin stabilizes.

Must be, because I'll be damned if I've ever heard it before. Hell, it took me 6 years to finally decipher the finer points of it. As for the medical droid & everyone in the room, of course they wouldn't know what happened, they're not Sith. I do still love the look on Jar Jar's face during the funeral when he realizes exactly what he's done.

George Lucas has gone to far this time.

http://www.youtube.c...bed/4Z3r9X8OahA

That officially the best thing ever!

Edited September 22, 2011 by Keith

[JB0]

Must be, because I'll be damned if I've ever heard it before. Hell, it took me 6 years to finally decipher the finer points of it. As for the medical droid & everyone in the room, of course they wouldn't know what happened, they're not Sith. I do still love the look on Jar Jar's face during the funeral when he realizes exactly what he's done.

Speaking of what he's done... I think that was the high point of the entire prequel trilogy, when the entire Empire became Jar-Jar's fault.

[Dynaman]

I think her dying the way she did was just George not being a very good writer...

[Gubaba]

I think her dying the way she did was just George not being a very good writer...

Agreed. And it doesn't fit at all with Leia's dialogue in Jedi.

[Keith]

Agreed. And it doesn't fit at all with Leia's dialogue in Jedi.

At that point Leia's not aware the Organa's weren't her real parents though.

[Gubaba]

At that point Leia's not aware the Organa's weren't her real parents though.

"do you remember your mother. Your REAL mother?"

She knows.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Gubaba

[Keith]

"do you remember your mother. Your REAL mother?"

She knows.

And yet it's still before the revelation that she's his sister.

[Gubaba]

And yet it's still before the revelation that she's his sister.

But...if she thought that the Organas were her biological family, wouldn't she have said something along the lines of, "What do you mean, my REAL mother...?"

And why would Bail Organa's wife be "beautiful but...sad"? Because she wasn't important enough to show up in the prequels?

[Keith]

But...if she thought that the Organas were her biological family, wouldn't she have said something along the lines of, "What do you mean, my REAL mother...?"

And why would Bail Organa's wife be "beautiful but...sad"? Because she wasn't important enough to show up in the prequels?

Because her husband was spending too much time on the rebellion & not enough with her? Considering the Organa's were the only ones with any reason to know that Leia was adopted at that point, and while she somehow always knew, she had no clue she was a skywalker at that point, there's no other mother she could have been talking about except for Organa's wife. All we can assume from that conversation at that point is that she also died young, though lived long enough for Leia to get to know her a bit.

[Gubaba]

Because her husband was spending too much time on the rebellion & not enough with her? Considering the Organa's were the only ones with any reason to know that Leia was adopted at that point, and while she somehow always knew, she had no clue she was a skywalker at that point, there's no other mother she could have been talking about except for Organa's wife. All we can assume from that conversation at that point is that she also died young, though lived long enough for Leia to get to know her a bit.

Enh...I don't buy it...without an outcry of something like, "Mrs. Organa (whatever her name was) WAS my real mother! What are you talking about?" it seems to me like it's clear that Leia knows what Luke means, and answers him accordingly.

Nice try, though.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Gubaba

[Keith]

Enh...I don't buy it...without an outcry of something like, "Mrs. Organa (whatever her name was) WAS my real mother! What are you talking about?" it seems to me like it's clear that Leia knows what Luke means, and answers him accordingly.

Nice try, though.

To the contrary, she hadn't had her revelation yet, so there's no reason to believe she knows. It's more plasuable that Bail lost his first wife & remarried

[Gubaba]

To the contrary, she hadn't had her revelation yet, so there's no reason to believe she knows. It's more plasuable that Bail lost his first wife & remarried

Show me canonical proof, and I'll believe it.