so..I want to get into Gundam...where to start?

[David Hingtgen]

Speaking of G-Gundam, Rain's pilot suit is pretty similar to Grace's...

[anime52k8]

It's all down to taste, but I'll be surprised if anyone seriously attempts to defend the Moon-Moon episodes as anything but a clandestine attempt to weaponize bad writing.

ok, that one was kind of bad. but it does dedicate a fair amount of it's run time to Chara Soon and how batshit insane she is and that's always a plus.

Speaking of G-Gundam, Rain's pilot suit is pretty similar to Grace's...

in the ways that matter at least.

It's not quite fondling yourself while making an almost orgasm face, but...

[azrael]

The thing I hate about threads like this is that the original poster asks, "Where should I start?" which can be taken as a pretty cut-and-dried question.

But it usually turns into Poster A saying, "Well, Show X is great, so watch that first, but Show Y sucks, so don't watch it." And then Poster B says, "No, Show Y was incredible. Show X is the one that sucks." And Poster C comes in and says "Show Z is the only one that's good," and so on.

I always take the question to mean, "Which series does not require knowledge of the franchise as a whole in order to understand it?" In which case, there is only one answer: the original TV series, or the original movie trilogy.

You gotta remember, in this age of the 'Net, people have instant access to reviews and whatnot so they expect a instant response. And then there's pack-mentality, i.e. "I'll have what he's having...". I say the best response is, and feel free to quote this for future reference : Go pick fraking a series. Watch it from end to end. Come back and let us know what you thought. Cuz chances are, you might not like what I like.

Speaking of G-Gundam, Rain's pilot suit is pretty similar to Grace's...

Will someone give David his daily Grace-dose? Think he forgot to take it today.

[pondo]

Okay... for a completest, Gundam is probably a really bad franchise to attempt to get into. It's just too massive for anyone to try tackling all at once. I guarantee that if you attempt to marathon your way through any Gundam show more than 13 episodes long or, god forbid, attempt to watch multiple Gundam shows back-to-back, you'll quickly find yourself heartily sick of protagonist du jour's whining and the way the franchise treats endlessly recycling the same handful of plots and set pieces as an appropriate substitute for innovation.

In practice, I suppose it's really more the protagonists who ruin attempts to marathon the Gundam shows than it is the recycled plot devices. After all, if you've got yourself a winning formula, why screw with it? The problem is that, with very VERY few exceptions, the Gundam protagonists are basically cast from the same three basic molds. You've got your whining, naive, immature pubescent boys with daddy issues who'll fall into the cockpit of a super prototype and then whine about how tough their life is afterward (basically a proto-Shinji, ex.: Amuro Ray, Camille Bidan); personality-less, gun-toting, stoic child soldiers (Setsuna F. Seiei, Heero Yuy); and pointlessly badass robot action heros who do six impossible things before breakfast just because, and who really just underline how depressing everyone else is (Domon Kasshu, Tobia Arronax).

To be frank, what I'd recommend is that you go in production order (start with the 1979 Mobile Suit Gundam or the compilation movies), and watch at most two episodes a day. That way the grimdark, the whining, and everything else won't have a chance to get to the threshold where watching the show feels more like a chore than a leisure time activity.

While I'm sure the completest in you will rebel against this idea, I would say that you could probably skip several shows as superfluous or just plain not worth watching. For starters, if you didn't like Macross 7, you'll probably want to skip Mobile Suit ZZ Gundam, the first half of which is painfully dull and kinda stupid. You'll probably also do yourself a favor by skipping the whole Cosmic Era (Gundam SEED), since it's basically "Universal Century for Dummies" brimming with implied bromance for the yaoi crowd. You can skip Gundam Wing for similar reasons... LOTS of implied bromance and you can get the same basic story without most of the suck by watching the Gundam 00 TV series instead. If you're down on super robots, you might wanna give Mobile Fighter G Gundam a wide berth too... since it's the domain of manly men with long sideburns who shout a lot and wear spandex to pilot their giant robots. (If that's your bag, or you just have an anarchic sense of humor, you may find Mobile Fighter G Gundam weirdly compelling)

To paraphrase Gioacchino Rossini, Gundam has some good moments... and some bad halves of an hour.

Good response.

I have to say, one of the things I grown to hate in anime is winy emo protagonists. I tried to watch both evangelion and patlabor and i couldn't deal.

Truthfully, if I want to get get into Gundam, I should start with the first series.

[Mr March]

I have to say, one of the things I grown to hate in anime is winy emo protagonists. I tried to watch both evangelion and patlabor and i couldn't deal.

[Vostok 7]

I have to say, one of the things I grown to hate in anime is winy emo protagonists. I tried to watch both evangelion and patlabor and i couldn't deal.

Truthfully, if I want to get get into Gundam, I should start with the first series.

Irony!

[Vifam7]

Good response.

I have to say, one of the things I grown to hate in anime is winy emo protagonists. I tried to watch both evangelion and patlabor and i couldn't deal.

Truthfully, if I want to get get into Gundam, I should start with the first series.

Evangelion I can understand. But Patlabor?

As for Gundam, the whiny emo-ness is really not too bad in most of the UC Gundam anime. I mean, if you can handle Ichijo Hikaru in Macross, then you can handle Amuro (First) and Camille (Zeta). The really whiny protagonists appear in those robot anime that follow Evangelion.

[JB0]

I only saw Mobile Suit Gundam W cut on Cartoon Network; it was good, but I'm suspecting it was better uncut (one of the few animes I saw where one of the main heros was an out and out prick; I'm talking to you, Heero). I couldn't stand Endless Waltz. Was I the only one who nodiced that most of the main characters were named after numerals?

That was how I saw Wing too. I doubt the edits really helped or hurt much. The characters were all cardboard cutout stereotypes with no real personalities.

As far as the number thing goes... I think it would be more fair to ask if anyone DIDN'T notice all the major characters were named after numbers.

As far as the "bromance" goes... I've heard Duo was originally written to be a girl and romantic interest for Heero, then changed to a guy when Marketing decided there shouldn't be chicks driving Gundams. It would explain a lot.

[Seto Kaiba]

Truthfully, if I want to get get into Gundam, I should start with the first series.

Yes, that would be my recommendation... there are some good-quality fansubs out there for that one, and it was once released in the US too, so it shouldn't be that hard to find. I would recommend watching the shows in rough production order, so you get a good feel for the timeline of Gundam's Universal Century. Some of the OVAs later come back and fill in the gaps between shows. (And the OVAs are where I personally feel the franchise shines... and many number among my favorite Gundam titles... there and only there will you find a giant robot pilot laid low by something as mundane as a plate of carrots)

Above all else, just make sure to pace yourself... two, maybe three episodes a day tops will get you through it at a decent enough pace, and you'll be able to take everything in without it becoming overwhelming or frustrating.

You can find a summary of the production order here, along with their availability outside Japan, but it mixes all of the AUs in with the UC continuity shows: http://www.mahq.net/animation/gundam/gundam.htm

A reasonably succinct list of which ones belong to the UC can be obtained here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Century#Universal_Century_Gundam_series_and_films

Edited May 30, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Ginrai]

Patlabor has a whiney emo protagonist? Noa is consistently chipper and happy.

[Penguin]

Patlabor has a whiney emo protagonist? Noa is consistently chipper and happy.

... unless Alphonse gets dinged, anyway. Pondo, you gotta explain the Patlabor comment. It's confusing the heck outta us.

Weirdly, the first Gundam series I saw was Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory, which builds straight off the story of the first series that I'd never seen (just a vague notion that something called "Gundam" existed). Despite that, the basic story doesn't require a whole bunch of Gundam lore just to understand (remnant fleet of defeated army seeks revenge... got it), it's easily digestable (13 episodes), the lead character is neither emo nor adolescent and only occasionally whiny, and it has cool mechanical designs (Kawamori FTW!). It was enough of a springboard to get me to learn more about the backstory, though I've always skipped the first series. The movie trilogy version was enough for me.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Penguin

[areaseven]

The first Gundam anime I watched was Char's Counterattack. At the same time, I collected the Gundam 0083 film comics by Viz before picking up the untranslated anime.

In terms of importance, here's how I rank all of them:

Watch It

Mobile Suit Gundam: The Movie Trilogy

Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam (series)

Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ

Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack

Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket

Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory

Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team

Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team - Miller's Report

Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn

The original Gundam movie trilogy is ranked higher than the TV series, as it does away with lame mobile suits/armor (i.e. Zakrello, G-Fighter) and just about everything Yoshiyuki Tomino hated about the series.

Hit or Miss

Mobile Suit Gundam (series)

Mobile Suit Gundam F91

Mobile Suit Victory Gundam

Gundam Evolve

Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam: A New Translation

I wanted to like the Zeta Gundam movies, but they failed due to the plot loopholes caused by the severe editing and the constant clashing of old and new animation. For some reason, I could never get into Victory Gundam. And Gundam Evolve is more of just a mixed bag.

Skip It

Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Last Blitz of Zeon

G-Saviour

The Gundam 0083 movie has quite possibly the worst editing for a Gundam compilation. Hopefully, G-Saviour will be the last attempt at a live-action Gundam.

As far as the Alternate Universe titles go, here's how I rank them:

Alternate Gundam Universes

1. Mobile Suit Gundam 00

2. Turn-A Gundam

3. After War Gundam X

4. Mobile Suit Gundam SEED / SEED Destiny

5. New Mobile War Chronicle Gundam Wing / Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

6. Mobile Fighter G-Gundam

7. SD Gundam Force

The final fight between Setsuna F. Seiei and Ribbons Allmark sealed the deal for me.

[David Hingtgen]

Uncut Wing is about 99% the same. Just replace "destroy" with "kill" and add some blood to scenes where it's obvious there should be some. I can't recall any scene more than 0.25 secs long actually being cut entirely.

::edit:: Or go here: http://www.lelola.net/archive/gw/edited.shtml

[Million Star]

Can anyone comment on the Japanese version of the Gundam Unicorn I Blu-ray? Are the English subtitles on the disc or do I have to connect to BD live every time to see them?

I`d prefer to have the Japanese release as I heard the mastering is better (as usual with jp releases) but I dont like the idea of having to always be connected to the internet to watch my purchase with subs, or for bandai to always have them on their servers or something. I just want a complete product ya know?

[Keith]

U.S. & Japanese disc's are 100% identical, but I've heard no one say that they had to connect online to view the subittles on the Japanese release. Only difference was that the Japanese release had a limited edition slip cover.

[Million Star]

Hmmm, thanks very much Keith, some guy on Amazon reviews was bitching that the US release was much more `washed out` than the Japanese one. If it`s not the subtitles, then does anyone know what the BD Live content for the release is?

Also does anyone know if the old US Bandai Entertainment release of Mobile Suit Gundam (TV series) had a subtitled version?

[azrael]

Also does anyone know if the old US Bandai Entertainment release of Mobile Suit Gundam (TV series) had a subtitled version?

No subtitles. They were not able to obtain the Japanese track for the series so no subtitled version was released.

[Keith]

You can actually get the BD live content for both countries by selecting english or Japanese at the initial menu load.

[F-ZeroOne]

For the record: yes, "completing" Gundam for a normal human is possibly, by now, verging on the impossible. Wait a few years until everyone is NewType and you might stand a chance... One thing to bear in mind with a lot of the early Gundams (pretty much everything pre-1990) is that the series quality is tied fairly strongly to the narrative quirks and techniques of Gundams creator, Yoshiyuki Tomino. He has a rather restless style - it often seems that he just cannot bear to have his characters sit still, and character development tends to take place in the gaps between the fighting - and its also worth bearing in mind that when these series were made, the way people watched them was different. It can fairly be claimed that many Tomino series have episodes which are mostly fight scenes. Back then, however, people didn't watch these series in 12-episode marathons, they ran home from school [1] and sat down to watch a once-a-week treat. I know at about the age of the typical anime-watching fan back then, I'd be bored if there wasn't Zaku-on-Gundam action that week!

Tomino also suffered from depression throughout his career and his mood could affect the series he was working on; happily he appears to have reached an equilibrium now.

My personal preference is for the Universal Century based Gundams; I've seen several of the alternate shows and enjoyed them (mostly!) but they do tend to lack the sense of "history" of the UC-era. A few summarised thoughts:

The original series: a classic, though its disco-era stylings can look rather odd now. Can seem rather slow-going at first until around episode 30 onwards, and then you can almost hear Tomino switching gears to a higher plane. The movies are good for a capsule understanding of how everything started.

Zeta Gundam: goes on a bit too long, and arguably the story runs out of steam well before the end, but essentially "fixed" the "style" of the Gundam universe for many years to come.

Gundam ZZ: oops. This is what happens when Tomino takes a few too many of the happy pills. The first twenty odd episodes are painful - Tomino can do comedy, and quite well if Xabungle is anything to go by, but Gundam is perhaps not the place for it generally - but after that the series improves considerably. Unfortunately many seem to give up by that point...

Chars Counterattack: its a gorgeous anime production of the kind they Just Don't Make Anymore <TM> but impossible to escape the feeling that someone hasn't quite filled in all the story elements for you.

Gundam 0083: it looks fantastic, the designs are excellent, the music is great, the production values are high, but the characters are cut-out from cardboard and pasted onto a story from a colouring book. Worth watching - its almost impossible not to like it - but a bit hollow on the inside.

Gundam 0080: despite a rather glaring plot hole, one of the most effective Gundam stories of all; an excellent, self contained tale of the tragedy of war. Ending guaranteed to make even grown men shed manly tears.

Gundam Victory: I found this very depressing - it has probably the highest character death rate of any Tomino Gundam - but many disagree and it does have plenty going for it, including an immensely likeable junior lead character and some great music.

Turn-A Gundam: I have to declare I am biased here. I think that Turn-A is one of the most fantastic anime I've ever seen; Tomino made this after Victory as a "cure" for one of his bouts of depression, and despite probably the most bizarre Gundam setting yet (a retro-styled alternate Earth) it really, really, works. Virtually every element that you think would be a disaster is instead a triumph. It can't entirely escape Tominos narrative jumpiness and the series lacks a clear villain, but overall Tomino showed how you truly reinvent a franchise.

Gundam SEED and Destiny: I thoroughly enjoyed watching these series - I felt Destiny was superior overall - but having seen them after watching Turn-A they do feel just a little bit hollow.

Of course, everyone has different opinions; these are just mine!

[1] Gundam has always had a reputation for attracting a somewhat "older" audience, so my analogy might entirely hold water, but I hope you can see what I'm getting at.

[baronv]

I originally started watching the Char's Counterattack movie, what a mistake. I couldn't figure out everyone's background during the film, but the complexity of the plot and characters got me hooked on the franchise.

I moved next into the original series' movie trilogy which helped ground me to the main characters of the original timeline. Once there you can follow F-ZeroOne's recommendations since that's how I progressed through the series. I mainly stayed with the UC series since that universe seemed to have the most interesting stories to me.

I tried the newer Gundam Seed stuff and couldn't get into it. I've had V-Gundam series sitting on my shelf for a few years so can't comment on that. Just don't watch the Turn-A Gundam 2-dic movie set, waste of a supposedly good series, everything in the shorted movie version of the series was so chopped up I couldn't figure out what the whole plot of the series was about. I guess I'll try and wrangle that full series in the future.

[Million Star]

Hmmm this thread has inspired me to finally start putting together a solid UC Gundam archive on my shelf instead of the random VHS fansubs and downloads I have now.

I was just about to pull the trigger on the US Bandai Entertainment Z Gundam boxes when I read the original opening and ending arrangements have been altered because of rights issues .

Not sure what to do now, can anyone comment on how bad or good the subtitles and picture quality are on the HK bootleg sets of Z Gundam, ZZ Gundam, Victory Gundam and Turn A Gundam?

[Protoculture]

On the other hand ... I'm trying to get into Gundam UC era since the last 2 years, but cannot stomach all the Char vs Amurro deal. Although I'm quite pleased with latest incarnation of One-Year War OAVs, most notably MS Igloo 1 & MS Igloo 2.

But personally, 08th MS Team & MS Gundam 0080 War in the Pocket are my favorites for UC Gundam.

As for alternate eras, I totally hated Seed. Thank goodness I has discovered Gundam X, & been thinking to add Gundam Turn A to the deal. Wing is meh, but I dig the Movie version.

Someone had been recommending me the 00 series, new-Wingesque with darker stories ... I might be checking on that one.

[Million Star]

Has anyone got an active link to a Gundam Sentinel translation?

[Gubaba]

Has anyone got an active link to a Gundam Sentinel translation?

You mean this?

http://rapidshare.com/files/166500147/_themaximum__gundam_sentinel__complete_with_page_numbers_.pdf

[Smut Peddler]

Anyone know where I can find a good avi format download of the gundam igloo series ? Thanks in advance.

[Million Star]

Thanks Gubaba!

[anime52k8]

Anyone know where I can find a good avi format download of the gundam igloo series ? Thanks in advance.

honestly, MS Igloo isn't worth the hard drive space. Just watch it on YouTube if you HAVE to see it.

[Robelwell202]

honestly, MS Igloo isn't worth the hard drive space. Just watch it on YouTube if you HAVE to see it.

I must disagree, sir. While it's not the most emotionally uplifting series in the Gundam megaverse, I still think it's damn good. Well worth the HD space, IMO

[Million Star]

I like Igloo`s depiction of full scale ground combat, even if it is in CG , which I generally hate.

[anime52k8]

I must disagree, sir. While it's not the most emotionally uplifting series in the Gundam megaverse, I still think it's damn good. Well worth the HD space, IMO

well I just have to disagree with your disagreement then. Igloo was by far the most painfully flat, one-note mess I've ever watched related to Gundam. Every single character is a ridiculously over-the-top cardboard cut-out of a war movie stereotype. None of the vignettes are remotely compelling or interesting, it's just one pandering Nazi Zeon fanboy wankfest after another; Exalting the Arian glory of Zeon as it fights the tyranny of the federation. Seriously, the Nazi overtones throughout are more than a little creepy.

Also Igloo is just plain ugly. the characters all look like spazzing Realdolls; absolutely disturbing. Not even the mecha combat looks that good. the Mobile suites themselves all make extremely jerky, awkward movements (particularly in space sequences), and everything else flies around ridiculously fast for something it's size and drifts like this was initial D or something.

so yeah; I hate it visually, I hate it narratively, I hate the characters, I hate the stupid retcons, I hate the blatant Nazi overtones... there's nothing I like about this mess.

Edited July 12, 2010 by anime52k8