`By `80s standards...` WTF?

[Lott Sheen]

I wonder if anyone under 20 years old here has checked out stuff like Layzner or Orguss and appreciated them more than Macross Frontier?

[anime52k8]

So... let me sum up this whole thread here...

"How dare you like something other than what I like!"

I think it's more like...

"What I think is the only thing that matters and any opinion to the contrary is not only wrong but a personal attack against me!"

[eugimon]

I think it's more like...

"What I think is the only thing that matters and any opinion to the contrary is not only wrong but a personal attack against me!"

I tried to capture that sentiment with my, "how dare you..." but I guess it's always good to be clear.

[taksraven]

So... let me sum up this whole thread here...

"How dare you like something other than what I like!"

Its like the decade thing with music. Most people have a decade that they prefer musically, and they will often defend that decade at the expense of all others.

ie "The best rock came out of the 70's maaaaan, and nothing else before or since has been as good!!"

Such views alienate a lot of people from each other and some can be real Nazi's about it.

Taksraven

[VF5SS]

I wonder if anyone under 20 years old here has checked out stuff like Layzner or Orguss and appreciated them more than Macross Frontier?

I'm not under 20, but honestly that's kind of apples to oranges.

Despite them all being mecha shows, Layzner is more a serious war drama whereas Macross Frontier is just fun pop entertainment.

Orguss is just ok. It's basically Macross with more a more meandering plot and Millia Athena going "ojisama! ojisama! ojisama! ojisama!" for twenty episodes.

also Mohm the robot girl is totally moe~.

[Ghost Train]

The best animation era was 10,000 B.C where artists showed what they got by painting on cave walls and sh!t. There was no moe, fanservice, traps, and all that garbage, just different variations of a robot hunting an evil caribou.

[Dynaman]

The best animation era was 10,000 B.C where artists showed what they got by painting on cave walls and sh!t. There was no moe, fanservice, traps, and all that garbage, just different variations of a robot hunting an evil caribou.

They just didn't have enough Mecha shows...

[VF5SS]

I totally dig the new "animation" trend set by Bakemonogatari, where you have 10% animation and 90% stills.

yeah because that totally doesn't happen in most anime where talking heads make long political speeches about space colonies or something

[RD Blade]

Whoa. This is an unexpectedly touchy subject. I'm pretty sure I didn't show any disrespect to the new stuff in my last post.

[eugimon]

Whoa. This is an unexpectedly touchy subject. I'm pretty sure I didn't show any disrespect to the new stuff in my last post.

I think anytime the central argument is, "I'm right and you're an wrong and stupid" folk are going to get riled up some.

[RD Blade]

You'll need to be more specific. I'm having trouble finding a post that matches your paraprhase.

[eugimon]

You'll need to be more specific. I'm having trouble finding a post that matches your paraprhase.

Just read any of the OP's posts. It's derisive and dismissive. He talks about his personal tastes as if they were fact and not just opinion while making making ad hominem attacks against people he disagrees with.

Therefore: I'm right and you're wrong and stupid.

[RD Blade]

Ah. Gotcha.

[Impreszive]

I have an easy solution for the issue at hand.

Everything is bad. Everything!

There. Problem solved.

[eriku]

I have an easy solution for the issue at hand.

Everything is bad. Everything!

There. Problem solved.

No, no, no. NO!

Everything is GOOD.

And I'll punch anyone in the mouth who disagrees.

What kind of idiot are you, anyway!!?

**for those who can't process sarcasm, the above post contained more than a little.**

[Funkenstein]

Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

[Agent ONE]

When people rip the 80's animation style its no different than pointing out how corny the chase scenes were in Dr. No. or any old Bond movie.

Doesn't mean any of this stuff is bad, it just means we can still see flaws in the things we like, yet still like em.

[Agent ONE]

I wonder if anyone under 20 years old here has checked out stuff like Layzner or Orguss and appreciated them more than Macross Frontier?

Probably not. Like the comparison I made earlier to the old espionage/Bond movies. If I now watch a movie from back then, its hard for me to overlook the bad production quality.

Example:

I just watched "Ice Station Zebra." An espionage movie from the 60's from right around the time of other espionage movies I have loved my whole life. I couldn't really appreciate it though. Most of the older ones I saw back when I was a little kid.

My point is, if you don't grow up with it, when you watch something older, you will see the flaws more than the guy who did grow up with it.

[Ghost Train]

1988: Legend of the Galactic Heroes

2010: The legend of the legendary heroes !

[Vic Mancini]

I'm 31 years old, for the record.

[Wanzerfan]

Probably not. Like the comparison I made earlier to the old espionage/Bond movies. If I now watch a movie from back then, its hard for me to overlook the bad production quality.

Example:

I just watched "Ice Station Zebra." An espionage movie from the 60's from right around the time of other espionage movies I have loved my whole life. I couldn't really appreciate it though. Most of the older ones I saw back when I was a little kid.

My point is, if you don't grow up with it, when you watch something older, you will see the flaws more than the guy who did grow up with it.

I have another example: The original Battlestar Galactica and the recent reboot. Sure, the original was corny, but it had its charm; The new one was pretty good, I just couldn't get into it.

Now Babylon 5 is a rather good series that actually takes physics into account when the show was made (there were absolutely no sound effects during the space battle scenes), kinda like Kubric's 2001: A Space Odyssey.

[Bri]

What most fans (particularly young ones) don't understand is what constitutes "good animation". Too many take thin lines and defined or sharp edges as quality animation. That's just paintwork on a computer. There's more to animation than just how "pretty it looks". Camera angles, action sequence, choreography, animation fluidity, attention to detail, etc. - many other factors should be factored in before one opines about "dated animation" as if to signify 'low quality'.

True, the quality of animation is far more determined by the production values, skills of the creators and time available for a project, then the the year it was made in.

No, its not that, it is just a stone cold fact (not being sarcastic like the above poster) that the best time for robot anime that we like WAS the 1980s. The other guy had a point, it was the perfect storm: Gundam had been a hit in 1979 and set up the `80s for copycat shows. What we actually got due to Japans economy peaking at the time and due to a huge appetite for the genre was TV stations taking chances on inexperienced creators doing the SF real robot shows they wanted to do, not what was safe. We ended up getting tons of unique and gritty shows that were made for adults and were really really cool.

Maybe I`m simplifying but the `90s were setup by Evangelion, a mediocre show storywise imo but a huge hit in Japan. Economic stagnation spawned a few even more mediocre imitators, then Moe blew up in the 2000s and paedophiles took over the whole industry, then it was all over...no time since the `80s has been as good, more than a few dodgy rushed episodes of Macross or not. End of story.

I would agree that the 80s were the time when mecha anime had it's peak in overall popularity. It's also the time it had the largest share in the number of anime produced. The formula has changed with the times but I don't feel quality has dropped. For example more recent mecha titles like Eureka 7, Gurren Lagann and Rahxephon can easily withstand the comparison with the best material of the 80s. I think the focus of the industry on niche marketing (i.e. to more "acquired" tastes) was forced to an extent by external events. Primarily caused by a rise in squeamishness in regard to content aimed at kids in the late 90s, a development not just limited to Japan ("Won't somebody please think of the children?").

[BeyondTheGrave]

I have another example: The original Battlestar Galactica and the recent reboot. Sure, the original was corny, but it had its charm; The new one was pretty good, I just couldn't get into it.

Good example.

Now Babylon 5 is a rather good series that actually takes physics into account when the show was made (there were absolutely no sound effects during the space battle scenes), kinda like Kubric's 2001: A Space Odyssey.

[anime52k8]

yeah because that totally doesn't happen in most anime where talking heads make long political speeches about space colonies or something

aww, why you gotta hate on Char, all he want is for us to go to space and become newtypes

[Funkenstein]

1988: Legend of the Galactic Heroes

2010: The legend of the legendary heroes !

I knew Lelouch didnt die. He just got transported to an alternate universe.

[Lott Sheen]

Probably not. Like the comparison I made earlier to the old espionage/Bond movies. If I now watch a movie from back then, its hard for me to overlook the bad production quality.

Example:

I just watched "Ice Station Zebra." An espionage movie from the 60's from right around the time of other espionage movies I have loved my whole life. I couldn't really appreciate it though. Most of the older ones I saw back when I was a little kid.

My point is, if you don't grow up with it, when you watch something older, you will see the flaws more than the guy who did grow up with it.

I saw the Manchurian Candidate and The Spy Who Came in from the Cold for the first time earlier this year and I was impressed. Ice Station Zebra I think is still really good too.

[Impreszive]

No, no, no. NO!

Everything is GOOD.

And I'll punch anyone in the mouth who disagrees.

What kind of idiot are you, anyway!!?

**for those who can't process sarcasm, the above post contained more than a little.**

[BeyondTheGrave]

My point is, if you don't grow up with it, when you watch something older, you will see the flaws more than the guy who did grow up with it.

I agree with that. But when you get older and see stuff you thought was just the greatest thing ever you see all the flaws and laugh at it but still like for what it is. The issue I see is this:

someone discusses (retro series #90012) due to various factors such as: Remake, Re-imagining Live action movie etc. Fan "X" says it god awful crap and doesn't compare to the original. Other fans say It could have been better but it was still great, At least we got something, Omg I loved it and so on and so forth.

X then proceeds to bash everyone's opinions calling them idiots. Saying the orignial is better because it's from the 70,80,90's . Which then leads to a pointless argument where one person argues the same point over and over again.

Well you get the picture.

So in short its an age, ego and memory thing.

[Ghost Train]

1985: Robotech, The Macross Saga

2010: Astroplan

Progress... yes we can.

[transfan52]

What most fans (particularly young ones) don't understand is what constitutes "good animation". Too many take thin lines and defined or sharp edges as quality animation. That's just paintwork on a computer. There's more to animation than just how "pretty it looks". Camera angles, action sequence, choreography, animation fluidity, attention to detail, etc. - many other factors should be factored in before one opines about "dated animation" as if to signify 'low quality'.

Most of the quality animation titles from the 1980's generally come from theatrical versions and direct-to-video OAVs. The reason why they had such fantastic quality was not only budget but also time. Production of TV anime series were/are particularly very rushed. Those with bigger staff could do more with the alotted time but those with smaller staff had to do more work at a faster pace. I remember hearing stories about how some episodes of Macross TV were being worked on to the last minute and staffers literally running to make the scheduled broadcast.

I totally agree with you on the whole animation part. In general many 70's and 80's anime productions were in IMO much better than what we see and get today from the industry as a whole. The most memorable and unforgettable moment's I can recall are all from older 70's and 80's productions. There are still some good modern shows out there but they are very rare and most don't catch my attention like the older shows did. Nothing seems original anymore. Everyone seems to be making the same kind of shows with a slightly varied plot and setting.

I can name a few, mainly one piece, bleach and naruto... They're all popular because of the media attention they are given, but that doesn't mean they are great shows like so many younger ppl make em out to be. If you really think about it they bring nothing new to the table. It's dragonball Z all over again where the only point of the show seems to be how they can overcome the next more powerful or skilled opponent... They're all long and drawn out too, the same way DBZ was with hundreds of episode's and dozens of movies. So much so that the plot or setting becomes irrelevant and pointless.

Still I can forgive DBZ because it had a good plot and was very entertaining to watch. It was also more original than the copycats of today's industry.