HG and Robotech Debates

[Zor Primus]

Even Scott and Ariel in RTSC seemed a bit odd. The last episode, Symphony of Light ends with Scott flying off. In RTSC, he comes back due to circumstances, but it's like "Oh you're back, and we're now a perfect couple." There's no settling, no real relationship interaction. It's so forced, and even the love interest that was there in MOSPEADA is diminished to a contrived, "they're supposed to be like this just because" form.

Not to mention the complete disappearance of the rest of the freedom fighters...

[blackconvoy_D01]

Not to mention the complete disappearance of the rest of the freedom fighters...

I have to ask. If HG was never planning on using LLA, why wouldn't Lancer and Lunk go with Scott eventually in the continuation of SC? Possibly because they need Lancer to tell his story in the Robo-tech version of LLA? Who knows.

Edited May 18, 2011 by blackconvoy_D01

[Jasonc]

I have to ask. If HG was never planning on using LLA, why wouldn't Lancer and Lunk go with Scott eventually in the continuation of SC? Possibly because they need Lancer to tell his story in the Robo-tech version of LLA? Who knows.

That would make sense, but make the stupidest sense and excuse out their to cover up for lack of thought and concern. I'm wondering if they are actually going to do LLA now, especially since some people got word that that is what was going to be used. Everyone was quickly turned off with that idea, so perhaps the delay of that is in figuring out something new to do? Yeah, I know, already been talked about.

[terry the lone wolf]

Not to mention the complete disappearance of the rest of the freedom fighters...

Scott does fly off he rejoins the the Expeditionary Force near the moon. RTSC doesn't conflict with that. Scott rejoins the fleet and Ariel leaves Earth to join him.

[Tom Bateman]

Scott does fly off he rejoins the the Expeditionary Force near the moon. RTSC doesn't conflict with that. Scott rejoins the fleet and Ariel leaves Earth to join him.

Technically no, it doesn't conflict, but it completely negates the emotional impact of Scott saying goodbye to hsi friends and leaving Ariel at the end of "Symphony of Light"

I don't know about you, but I thought he was off to deep space to find Admiral Hunter, not just flying to the moon.

This whole thing reminds me of how the opening of ALIEN 3 completely destroyed the ending of ALIENS

Edited May 18, 2011 by Tom Bateman

[Keith]

Technically no, it doesn't conflict, but it completely negates the emotional impact of Scott saying goodbye to hsi friends and leaving Ariel at the end of "Symphony of Light"

I don't know about you, but I thought he was off to deep space to find Admiral Hunter, not just flying to the moon.

This whole thing reminds me of how the opening of ALIEN 3 completely destroyed the ending of ALIENS

Maybe that's why Alien 3 didn't do well, they didn't give Riply big fake tits.

[Seto Kaiba]

Even Scott and Ariel in RTSC seemed a bit odd. The last episode, Symphony of Light ends with Scott flying off. In RTSC, he comes back due to circumstances, but it's like "Oh you're back, and we're now a perfect couple." There's no settling, no real relationship interaction.

Yeah, and it gets even weirder and more contrived when you realize that Scott's attitude towards Ariel/Marlene goes from "I can't be with you because you're a green-blooded space lobster in a human suit." to "We're the perfect couple!" in the space of about a day and a half. It's almost like the poor guy has bipolar disorder. After basically a lifetime of hating the Invid, he reverses himself and starts knowingly protecting (and then romancing) his hated enemy without ever explaining his sudden and dramatic change of heart...

It's so forced, and even the love interest that was there in MOSPEADA is diminished to a contrived, "they're supposed to be like this just because" form.

Isn't that the justification for about 80-90% of what's in Shadow Chronicles anyway?

Technically no, it doesn't conflict, but it completely negates the emotional impact of Scott saying goodbye to hsi friends and leaving Ariel at the end of "Symphony of Light"

As if the Shadow Chronicles movie didn't already completely torpedo the ending of "Symphony of Light" already...

I don't know about you, but I thought he was off to deep space to find Admiral Hunter, not just flying to the moon.

To be honest, having him be picked up by a carrier along the way is one of the few parts of the movie that actually makes sense... he's not gonna get very far in a relatively slow and clunky fighter with no faster-than-light capability, unless our boy Admiral Hunter was just having a siesta just outside of lunar orbit.

Maybe that's why Alien 3 didn't do well, they didn't give Riply big fake tits.

... and that is the second most horrifying mental image I've had today...

[blackconvoy_D01]

Maybe that's why Alien 3 didn't do well, they didn't give Riply big fake tits.

With Ripley rockin the baldy, big fake tits wouldn't work for the Refless/ Regiss either. That's also why she'll never be back.

Edited May 18, 2011 by blackconvoy_D01

[Tom Bateman]

To be honest, having him be picked up by a carrier along the way is one of the few parts of the movie that actually makes sense... he's not gonna get very far in a relatively slow and clunky fighter with no faster-than-light capability, unless our boy Admiral Hunter was just having a siesta just outside of lunar orbit.

Of course he would have had to link up with others to go find Admiral Hunter, but it's not something that the audience had any NEED to see.

[Zor Primus]

Scott does fly off he rejoins the the Expeditionary Force near the moon. RTSC doesn't conflict with that. Scott rejoins the fleet and Ariel leaves Earth to join him.

You forget the replay of Ariel talking to the Regis during the battle...that convo was supposed to include the rest of the group.

[Jasonc]

You forget the replay of Ariel talking to the Regis during the battle...that convo was supposed to include the rest of the group.

So, either the last two episodes of Robotech the New Gen. aren't canon, or RTSC isn't. If put to a vote, I'm willing to put up money that it's RTSC that would be kicked to the curb. Street justice style.

[Keith]

So, either the last two episodes of Robotech the New Gen. aren't canon, or RTSC isn't. If put to a vote, I'm willing to put up money that it's RTSC that would be kicked to the curb. Street justice style.

And that is where you fail as a Robotech fan. "Real" Robotech fans know that the Yuniverse (new coined term, and I totally claim it!) is actually the "first" chain of events in the circle of events. In this original timeline, everyone else but Sott & Ariel died before the final battle. Once Rick Hunter travels back in time through the black hole in the SDF-3, a new timeline is created where the events in the 85 episodes of Robotech are seen. But none of this can exist without RTSC, and therefore it is the most important piece of the story.

Yiou will also note that other differences in the original timeline include: The Robtech Masters never created the Zentreadi, and therefore Maia Sterling is actually half "Robotech Master," which is why she shortened it to "Alien." In this timeline the Zentreadi Don't exist. Also, many other changes to be detailed later.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Keith

[blackconvoy_D01]

And that is where you fail as a Robotech fan. "Real" Robotech fans know that the Yuniverse (new coined term, and I totally claim it!) is actually the "first" chain of events in the circle of events. In this original timeline, everyone else but Sott & Ariel died before the final battle. Once Rick Hunter travels back in time through the black hole in the SDF-3, a new timeline is created where the events in the 85 episodes of Robotech are seen. But none of this can exist without RTSC, and therefore it is the most important piece of the story.

Yiou will also note that other differences in the original timeline include: The Robtech Masters never created the Zentreadi, and therefore Maia Sterling is actually half "Robotech Master," which is why she shortened it to "Alien." In this timeline the Zentreadi Don't exist. Also, many other changes to be detailed later.

Yuniverse + McKeeverism = Robo-Tech (To the rescue)

On subject, I think all of Robotech is subject to editing or revison since it's all a messed up jumble to begin with now. I accepted the 85 Eps. to Sentinels, to SC, and Wildstorm side stories. But to throw everything you put out away and revise it so you can put out something new, that would have to be explained...

It all just doesnt make sense anymore. I think I confused myself!

Edited May 19, 2011 by blackconvoy_D01

[Jasonc]

As a fan not associated with the series, the good thing is tha every fan can make up what they want, pick and choose what they want as their own canon, etc. By that same token, people involved with the creative process of a franchise almost have a "code of ethics" in that position that isn't really official, but is almost expected. That is, you don't mess with the basic storyline that is established canon, especially when you aren't the originator. Now, we all know Star Trek (the new movie) totally jacks up the timeline, but, it doesn't negate that it ever happened. That was probably one of the more clever ways of a new director not having to immense himself in 30+ years of canon, and a way to create his own vision of it.

I know this kind of revamping of a franchise has been done before, but if you get down to it, there aren't any good reasons why RTSC re-wrote canon story. Marvel does it with movies, DC does the same. Those movies seemed more based on, and aren't tied directly to the source, i.e. the comic books. That seems to give them more freedom. Not only that, but those stories have been going on for so long, you have to adapt the nuts and bolts of the story into the condensed 2 hr. timeframe. I dunno, just thoughts here, but I can't think of a valid reason in the demolishing of canon events in the Robotech timeline. If someone has any theories out there, I'd be interested in hearing them.

[Keith]

As a fan not associated with the series, the good thing is tha every fan can make up what they want, pick and choose what they want as their own canon, etc. By that same token, people involved with the creative process of a franchise almost have a "code of ethics" in that position that isn't really official, but is almost expected. That is, you don't mess with the basic storyline that is established canon, especially when you aren't the originator. Now, we all know Star Trek (the new movie) totally jacks up the timeline, but, it doesn't negate that it ever happened. That was probably one of the more clever ways of a new director not having to immense himself in 30+ years of canon, and a way to create his own vision of it.

I know this kind of revamping of a franchise has been done before, but if you get down to it, there aren't any good reasons why RTSC re-wrote canon story. Marvel does it with movies, DC does the same. Those movies seemed more based on, and aren't tied directly to the source, i.e. the comic books. That seems to give them more freedom. Not only that, but those stories have been going on for so long, you have to adapt the nuts and bolts of the story into the condensed 2 hr. timeframe. I dunno, just thoughts here, but I can't think of a valid reason in the demolishing of canon events in the Robotech timeline. If someone has any theories out there, I'd be interested in hearing them.

To dissassociate themselvses with the whole Jim + Mint issue? lol.

[PetarB]

Interlude:

Starship Troopers was written by Robert Heinlein, and first published in 1959. I proudly own an original print, although I didn't read it until around 1984.

Ender's Game was written by Orson Scott Card and first published in1985. When it first came out many reviewers compared it to Starship Troopers as it addressed similar subject manner in a completely different light. Which is why I bought it and read it shortly afterwards. It's interesting to compare the two.

Back to regular programming.

[terry the lone wolf]

Technically no, it doesn't conflict, but it completely negates the emotional impact of Scott saying goodbye to hsi friends and leaving Ariel at the end of "Symphony of Light"

I don't know about you, but I thought he was off to deep space to find Admiral Hunter, not just flying to the moon.

This whole thing reminds me of how the opening of ALIEN 3 completely destroyed the ending of ALIENS

When I watched it wayyyyyyyyy back in 85/86 I thought that to but I always thought it a little weird that a lone Alpha was going into deep space on a rescue mission. I heard in the novels Scott does rendevous with the fleet on Moon Base Alice then later joins Vince & Jean Grant on the Ark Angel to search for the SDF-3.

[Einherjar]

I know this kind of revamping of a franchise has been done before, but if you get down to it, there aren't any good reasons why RTSC re-wrote canon story. Marvel does it with movies, DC does the same. Those movies seemed more based on, and aren't tied directly to the source, i.e. the comic books. That seems to give them more freedom. Not only that, but those stories have been going on for so long, you have to adapt the nuts and bolts of the story into the condensed 2 hr. timeframe. I dunno, just thoughts here, but I can't think of a valid reason in the demolishing of canon events in the Robotech timeline. If someone has any theories out there, I'd be interested in hearing them.

A big difference between the Star Trek example and Robo-Tech is that J.J. Abrams and co. actually cared about the source material.

Perhaps RTSC was a desperate attempt by a company with little to no connections with the comic book and anime/animation industry trying to set themselves apart within their own means. Nostalgia does all the rest and they get money for people believing this and other stuff they made have the slightest connection to the original show. There's no heart in it compared to other shows/franchises since none of the people who actually made shows (character and mechanical designs for instance), were ever involved in it. Probably the only heart you'll see from it now will be remembrance for Robo-Tech's fallen creator, enough to make a drinking contest out of.

[Jasonc]

A big difference between the Star Trek example and Robo-Tech is that J.J. Abrams and co. actually cared about the source material.

Perhaps RTSC was a desperate attempt by a company with little to no connections with the comic book and anime/animation industry trying to set themselves apart within their own means. Nostalgia does all the rest and they get money for people believing this and other stuff they made have the slightest connection to the original show. There's no heart in it compared to other shows/franchises since none of the people who actually made shows (character and mechanical designs for instance), were ever involved in it. Probably the only heart you'll see from it now will be remembrance for Robo-Tech's fallen creator, enough to make a drinking contest out of.

Oh, I totally agree. J.J. Abrams made his film where it doesn't violate the canon, by working the change into the story in a meaningful, clear-cut way. With Tommy Yun, the reasoning is never given. It's just rearranged for no reason, and with no regard for what fans take as core canon.

It's also true that there is that lack of heart put into the project. Anytime this part of the debate is brought up, it's always met w/ the McKeever talking about how successful the film was and selling "gangbusters" (seriously, isn't that a porn tern?). Never do you hear any of the the staff talking abut how much of their heart they poured into the project, or how much they tried to do the best they could. As Tom said, it's expected that the movie would make money. There's enough fans out there that were waiting to see the conclusion of episode 85 for a loooonnnng time. I keep going back to it, but it rings very true. You get a Star Wars episode 1 syndrome, in which rabid fans flock to see and buy the film, and then it comes out, and many fans realize that not all is perfect in paradise. They may think it doesn't matter, but after that fiasco with RTSC, I really don't have any desire to see a sequel, sidequel, live action movie, etc. Why give my money to a group that craps out a lame product, slaps a Robotech label on it, and sells it to everyone?

[BeyondTheGrave]

If Seto Keith were to have a Macross Party/con on HG properties. What would their legal team i.e. McKeever do? Would it create a Paradox?

Let me elaborate. Have people gather. Talk about macross, buy,sell and trade goods. Show some Macross footage.

And it turns out to be a success would various parties become enraged/jealous and try to stop it?

@Jasonc

Star Trek uses time travel and the space time continuum whenever a the franchise has hit a slump.

Maybe Rt could do the same.

During the final battle of earth a stray neutron s missile strikes the sun and creates an Black hole sending Rick hunter back in time. Rick Awakening just moments before Roy takes off on his final mission.

Edited May 20, 2011 by BeyondTheGrave

[chrisk]

Oh, I totally agree. J.J. Abrams made his film where it doesn't violate the canon, by working the change into the story in a meaningful, clear-cut way. With Tommy Yun, the reasoning is never given. It's just rearranged for no reason, and with no regard for what fans take as core canon.

Never do you hear any of the the staff talking abut how much of their heart they poured into the project, or how much they tried to do the best they could.

Tommy Yun is NOT J.J. Abrams. J.J Abrams, at least to me, is a visionary. I've seen his TED Talks. Brilliant guy with loads of ideas and some modicum of respect for his audience. Tommy Yun? The guy who wrote a Speed Racer comic? Yeah... That's a great idea! Lets get that guy to take the reins of one of the 20th century's most loved cartoon series!

I highly doubt Yun devoted 10,000 hours working on short films or storyboarding prior to signing up to Harmony Gold so we can't really fault him for the mistake that is Shadow Chronicles. Looking back though, you can't deny that some of the plot points in that film are just embarrassing... Which happens if an awful director isn't answerable to anybody.

Did Tommy Yun have a grand design for Shadow Chronicles? Maybe not. I've always felt that film was an experiment so they could get Hollywood's attention. The problem was that Tommy didn't see the recession, superheroes and the decline of the American anime industry back in 2005...

What's next for Robotech? Anybody have any answers??

[BeyondTheGrave]

What's next for Robotech? Anybody have any answers??

Zombies.

Edited May 20, 2011 by BeyondTheGrave

[mecha2241]

Zombies.

Why not, by the time they get around to something new for Robotech it will be just in time for zombies to be out of style. Oh, and Paramount will be rushing out "Transformers 10: The Revenge of the Fallen by the Dark of the Moon" because they're still scared of the Robotech Live Action Movie that still doesn't have a director announced...

[BeyondTheGrave]

A zombie Roy could be cool.

[Smegalot]

How about they do a stop animation movie get Tim Burton to do it. Give it a gothic edge. And call it "The Nightmare before Robotech". Where Holloween discovers Robotech.....

I need to get out more.....

[Jasonc]

How about they do a stop animation movie get Tim Burton to do it. Give it a gothic edge. And call it "The Nightmare before Robotech". Where Holloween discovers Robotech.....

I need to get out more.....

Yeah, I can hear the song "This is Robotech, This is Robotech" sung by ace veritech pilot Jack Baker Skelington. He can deliver scary pumpkin heads in the form of micro missiles to all the young girls and boys, and defeat the Zentraedi with Halloween songs. The Zentraedi could be religious zealots whom are trying to cancel Halloween, and destroy the earth by doing so.

[Gubaba]

...one of the 20th century's most loved cartoon series!

Um...Looney Tunes? The Flintstones? Scooby-Doo?

[Keith]

If Seto Keith were to have a Macross Party/con on HG properties. What would their legal team i.e. McKeever do? Would it create a Paradox?

Let me elaborate. Have people gather. Talk about macross, buy,sell and trade goods. Show some Macross footage.

And it turns out to be a success would various parties become enraged/jealous and try to stop it?

That depends, how many chicks would be there, and how nude would they be?

What's next for Robotech? Anybody have any answers??

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Let Bruce Timm's current WB animated feature group have a go at the franchise. Let them do original character/mecha designs, and have their own completely original take on the story.

[chrisk]

Um...Looney Tunes? The Flintstones? Scooby-Doo?

Ayt, lemme quote McKeever here then. What was it? "The greatest show of a generation"? Something like that.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Let Bruce Timm's current WB animated feature group have a go at the franchise. Let them do original character/mecha designs, and have their own completely original take on the story.

Fox should get Robotech license. Then we can see Seth MacFarlane's Robotech. Drug references to protoculture, aliens that never heard of sex.

Or wait... What about... Robotech Chicken? Get it? EH??

Edited May 20, 2011 by chrisk

[blackconvoy_D01]

what's next for robo-tech? How about resurrecting one of their old bs spewers for a 'con?

Oh wait...

http://robotechnews.blogspot.com/2011/05/robotech-convention-tour-at-anime.html

Tommy must be tired. He needs to recharge.

Edited May 20, 2011 by blackconvoy_D01

[Dynaman]

Or wait... What about... Robotech Chicken? Get it? EH??

Robot Chicken, I have never seen a Robotech reference on the show, that says something about the actual cultural impact and popularity of Robotech I think. (sadly there have been no Star Blazers references either)

[Chronocidal]

Robot Chicken, I have never seen a Robotech reference on the show, that says something about the actual cultural impact and popularity of Robotech I think. (sadly there have been no Star Blazers references either)

Given the Transformers bits we've seen before, I can easily see a bit involving Jetfire. They recruit him after crashing in America.. then a bunch of Japanese Aliens attack Earth, and try to take him back. They find out that these aliens are weak to bad music, and have Rebecca Black ride Jetfire into battle against them singing "Friday," making their heads explode. In the end, Jetfire gets abducted and locked in a crate in the basement of a mysterious organization known only as "Pax Aurum," and replaced by an SR-71. The real kicker would be if they used a repainted Yammie for the figure itself.

Whether anyone but fans would get the humor in that is up for grabs, but I doubt they'd directly address the Macross/Robotech fiasco.

On the other hand, I can also see them parody the copyright issues directly without even using any recognizable characters. All they have to do is have the military decide to start producing a bunch of combat mechs, then suddenly have the contractor producing them completely pull and redesign their most effective designs because they get sued for stealing the designs from Apple. Then Apple gets sued for stealing the designs from Sony.

[Einherjar]

what's next for robo-tech? How about resurrecting one of their old bs spewers for a 'con?

Oh wait...

http://robotechnews.blogspot.com/2011/05/robotech-convention-tour-at-anime.html

Tommy must be tired. He needs to recharge.

That's just bad timing because I have more important things to do than hear some guys faking credibility, like the Rapture.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Einherjar

[terry the lone wolf]

Given the Transformers bits we've seen before, I can easily see a bit involving Jetfire. They recruit him after crashing in America.. then a bunch of Japanese Aliens attack Earth, and try to take him back. They find out that these aliens are weak to bad music, and have Rebecca Black ride Jetfire into battle against them singing "Friday," making their heads explode. In the end, Jetfire gets abducted and locked in a crate in the basement of a mysterious organization known only as "Pax Aurum," and replaced by an SR-71. The real kicker would be if they used a repainted Yammie for the figure itself.

Whether anyone but fans would get the humor in that is up for grabs, but I doubt they'd directly address the Macross/Robotech fiasco.

On the other hand, I can also see them parody the copyright issues directly without even using any recognizable characters. All they have to do is have the military decide to start producing a bunch of combat mechs, then suddenly have the contractor producing them completely pull and redesign their most effective designs because they get sued for stealing the designs from Apple. Then Apple gets sued for stealing the designs from Sony.

Seth Green compared the mature writing of Clone Wars to Robotech. Just sayin'

[TehPW]

Robot Chicken, I have never seen a Robotech reference on the show, that says something about the actual cultural impact and popularity of Robotech I think. (sadly there have been no Star Blazers references either)

I THINK... that when they animate the skits, the producers usually have the rights to use the various toy images. because the legal status of Macross in the US, i doubt they CAN use Robotech images (due to the nature of world wide legalise)

can someone more knowledgeable speak up?

wiki/RC