HG and Robotech Debates

[Seto Kaiba]

Actually meant write leave not live...my bad on that one.

Ah, yeah... that explains it. Yes, Carl Macek did leave the Robotech franchise (presumably involuntarily) after the failure of the all-CG Robotech 3000 series concept in 2000 and his subsequent attempt to salvage it by turning it into a traditional animated series with Tatsunoko's help. He was replaced as Robotech's creative director by Tommy Yune in 2001, and didn't return to the franchise until the 25th Anniversary in 2010.

[blackconvoy_D01]

Wow, I've been gone for a bit, but I see the discussion continues. Personally I don't think that Carl's ideas would reignite any flames for Robo-tech. I've just recently accuquired a DX VF-25F with all the different packs, and I've been watching a lot of Macross Frontier,7, 0, and Plus (Currently on eps. 11 of 7). Personally I feel a bit ripped off. There is so much material from all of these Macross storylines that blend together without annoying speculation of what's cannon, what's not. In Macross its just all laid out. Clear, clean, and direct.

Robo-tech could be like that, but too many of the wrong people have had their hands in it. I think Robo-tech should be put to bed for alleast five to ten years, then attempt to reboot it. During that time, I feel that another Macross series expanding on the others, while going off on its own main plot should come stateside. Alongside this a MOSPEADA remake, with new designs and some more twist to the story. I may be rambling here, but I've lived under a rock too long.

I like Robotech but since its not going anywhere with quality or quantity, let's put her to bed and keep the original series going.

[Seto Kaiba]

There is so much material from all of these Macross storylines that blend together without annoying speculation of what's canon, what's not. In Macross its just all laid out. Clear, clean, and direct.

Robo-tech could be like that, but too many of the wrong people have had their hands in it.

Eh... actually, the Robotech universe got a lot better in that respect after Tommy Yune rebooted the continuity. The problem is that there are too many older Robotech fans who, either because of a nostalgic attachment to a particular adaptation or because they resent Tommy for taking over Carl's position, refuse to acknowledge the new canon and carry on the bickering over what sources are/aren't official canon. As I've said (and a surprising number of people have added to their signatures on other sites), Harmony Gold's public position on canon basically amounts to a "Schrodinger's Continuity" in which anything can be canon provided that it doesn't conflict with the series is an attempt to appease those old-time fanboys. In interviews and discussions in the forums, the Harmony Gold staffers invariably identify the canon as comprising only the "original 85", the new comics, and Shadow Chronicles.

I think Robo-tech should be put to bed for alleast five to ten years, then attempt to reboot it. During that time, I feel that another Macross series expanding on the others, while going off on its own main plot should come stateside. Alongside this a MOSPEADA remake, with new designs and some more twist to the story. I may be rambling here, but I've lived under a rock too long.

In all fairness, Robotech is probably going to be put to bed for that long anyway... despite the efforts of Harmony Gold. They just CANNOT stick to a release schedule. I'd really prefer to see Robotech put to bed permanently, but I suppose I shouldn't get my hopes up.

[Renato]

Wow, I've been gone for a bit, but I see the discussion continues.

You took the words right out of Carl Macek's wandering spirit, returning to check on things after a trip around the Solar System.

I really think he was genuinely displeased with the state of affairs at HG regarding Robo--tech.

[macross_fan99]

According to Tommy Yune, the total budget for Shadow Chronicles was less than $1 million USD... and it seems like a fair bit of that went to the voice actor budget, being that most of the original Robotech cast now belongs to the Screen Actors Guild and hiring Mark Hamill can't have been cheap either.

This seems impossibly low for a full movie. There have been cartoon series that had 1 million per episode budgets. Granted, the animation was pretty good but its a much shorter program.

In terms of rebooting robotech, the problem always comes down to money. Lets say they make some changes and get rid of all the macross references that might be getting in the way. In the end they will still need money and that means they will need to find a partner or at least funding for the project.

The problem is that the story of earth being attacked by aliens is pretty generic so why would a company like WB pay them to use the robotech name if they could easily make their own "Earth under attack show". Plus the real reason for saturday morning shows is to sell merchandise and again, why have to share profits if you can make your own generic show that's not called robotech.

This makes it almost impossible to find funding. And of course the track record of failures must scare away investors pretty fast too.

[Keith]

Here's what I don't get. Yune's a comic artist. Robotech has a web page. Why not do a webcomic to tide over their dwindling stir crazy fanbase until they can afford to do...something. Instead, they lead them on with empty promises and broken fanboy dreams.

[Jasonc]

Here's what I don't get. Yune's a comic artist. Robotech has a web page. Why not do a webcomic to tide over their dwindling stir crazy fanbase until they can afford to do...something. Instead, they lead them on with empty promises and broken fanboy dreams.

Um, because that makes too much sense, and would market the series too well. It seems like the HG staff's goal is to keep Robotech in a small box, and just show enough to piss their fanbase off. Not only that, but I have observed them as being quite lazy for the franchise.

[anime52k8]

Um, because that makes too much sense, and would market the series too well. It seems like the HG staff's goal is to keep Robotech in a small box, and just show enough to piss their fanbase off. Not only that, but I have observed them as being quite lazy for the franchise.

Also, In order to do an ongoing web comic they'd have to A)Come up with a story lengthy and comprehensible enough to be read on a week-by-week bases and B) Produce a comic book page worth of passable art every week.

Clearly it would demand way more creativity, artistic talent and willingness to do any kind of work than anybody employed by HG has.

[Keith]

Also, In order to do an ongoing web comic they'd have to A)Come up with a story lengthy and comprehensible enough to be read on a week-by-week bases and B) Produce a comic book page worth of passable art every week.

Clearly it would demand way more creativity, artistic talent and willingness to do any kind of work than anybody employed by HG has.

But robotech fans love bad art & hackneyed stories, that's not an excuse!

[Rabidweezil]

Also, In order to do an ongoing web comic they'd have to A)Come up with a story lengthy and comprehensible enough to be read on a week-by-week bases and B) Produce a comic book page worth of passable art every week.

Clearly it would demand way more creativity, artistic talent and willingness to do any kind of work than anybody employed by HG has.

C) Take 3 separate, already drawn comics, rewrite the dialogue and call it one story

[Jasonc]

Look, whether you hate it, love it, or are completely indifferent to it, if they did a web comic, they'd have enough material if they simply did the Sentinels, joining Macek's vision of it with the Yuniverse version. That way, fans of Carl, fans of Tommy, and all those in between can get some filler story. I doubt they'd do all that now, especially since people like us at Macrossworld have come up with it before he did, but they could've done that on a monthly basis at least, and then put it up on iTunes as a download, or you can read and download it as an option for paid subscribers to the site. Had they thought of that, then they'd knock 2 birds out with one stone. They'd be generating money, would be supplying the fans with new content, and the staff would actually be working instead of pretending to do so. Wait, that's 3, so even better.

[chrisk]

Look, whether you hate it, love it, or are completely indifferent to it, if they did a web comic, they'd have enough material if they simply did the Sentinels, joining Macek's vision of it with the Yuniverse version. That way, fans of Carl, fans of Tommy, and all those in between can get some filler story. I doubt they'd do all that now, especially since people like us at Macrossworld have come up with it before he did, but they could've done that on a monthly basis at least, and then put it up on iTunes as a download, or you can read and download it as an option for paid subscribers to the site. Had they thought of that, then they'd knock 2 birds out with one stone. They'd be generating money, would be supplying the fans with new content, and the staff would actually be working instead of pretending to do so. Wait, that's 3, so even better.

This is something I've been reading a lot lately... The old generation of executives and directors in the entertainment industry that can't get to grips with the power of the internet. (It's even more suprising since Yune and McKeever aren't that old to begin with)

The want to give the excuse that printed comics are dying? Then why not go the webcomics route? Valve, masters of viral marketing, released a wonderful prequel comic to their Portal sequel. They think nobody is interested in the larger universe of Robotech, and that is should only be available in that pen and paper RPG? Really? Then make a comprehensive one on the internet. Who cares about the convention contests they hold? Who cares about Mystery Boxes of old rehash merchandise? Why not hold contests online? Have people talking about Robotech again.

The model of "convention exclusives crap" and boring retrospective panels is passe. It shouldn't be their only way to monetize this silly piece of nostalgia. They give excuses that they don't want to make aggressive marketing pushes and waste their money. Um... aren't you guys trying to sell to the fanboys this 25th anniversary bullcrap? How about that promised "sidequel" to be released this year?

McKeever is an idiot. Horray for Macross

[Keith]

I doubt they'd do all that now, especially since people like us at Macrossworld have come up with it before he did,

MWAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!

[Darkwater]

This is something I've been reading a lot lately... The old generation of executives and directors in the entertainment industry that can't get to grips with the power of the internet. (It's even more suprising since Yune and McKeever aren't that old to begin with)

I actually remember hearing Tommy talk on one of Chris Meadows's old podcasts about how comics do need to follow suit with the rest of print and find a way into the digital age. So, he is aware of the concept. Who knows if the idea's been pitched to HG? If it has, perhaps they don't want to pay for it (Tommy can only give away so many MPC's for free fan work).

[Seto Kaiba]

I actually remember hearing Tommy talk on one of Chris Meadows's old podcasts about how comics do need to follow suit with the rest of print and find a way into the digital age. So, he is aware of the concept. Who knows if the idea's been pitched to HG? If it has, perhaps they don't want to pay for it (Tommy can only give away so many MPC's for free fan work).

If it has, then it's fairly likely that McKeever was the one who turned up his nose at it. After all, he was the one who scorned using the website for promotional material, and insists on doing ALL of their advertising on the convention tour.

[mrhillz]

If it has, then it's fairly likely that McKeever was the one who turned up his nose at it. After all, he was the one who scorned using the website for promotional material, and insists on doing ALL of their advertising on the convention tour.

To be honest, that's great for those that like to drive 4 + hours away (or fly) to cons, but what about the rest of the fan community? I mean word of mouth really doesn't do that much unless there's something to back it up, like an updated website.

[Jasonc]

If it has, then it's fairly likely that McKeever was the one who turned up his nose at it. After all, he was the one who scorned using the website for promotional material, and insists on doing ALL of their advertising on the convention tour.

If Kevin's position on the website as a promo tool was indeed scorned, it's probably out of wanting to make his non-essential job there seem more glorified, more necessary than it really is. Not only that, but that sort of thinking is only a moron would come up with, as the site is up 24/7, and viewable to just about everyone. Convention tour??? Only a fraction of those people will see that, and a small fraction.

The idea of a digital comic to download from iTunes, or as a viewable media to paying subscribers of the site not only supports giving the fans new material, it generates income, and creates (more or less) a positive buzz. I'm sure they won't do that, since Tommy isn't the one who thought of it. From what I've heard, Tommy's notorious for not wanting to get involved in good ideas if he didn't come up with it. I can think of a few ideas that were put in his decision to move with or not, and he's turned them down, then turned around and decided to do a half-assed version of the same thing. Perhaps it's not the greatest thing to be in a position where you need to have total control, from concept to end product, but you don't have the creative gumption to do anything really worthwhile.

Of course, I could be totally wrong aout all of that, but I doubt it.

[Keith]

If Kevin's position on the website as a promo tool was indeed scorned, it's probably out of wanting to make his non-essential job there seem more glorified, more necessary than it really is. Not only that, but that sort of thinking is only a moron would come up with, as the site is up 24/7, and viewable to just about everyone. Convention tour??? Only a fraction of those people will see that, and a small fraction.

The idea of a digital comic to download from iTunes, or as a viewable media to paying subscribers of the site not only supports giving the fans new material, it generates income, and creates (more or less) a positive buzz. I'm sure they won't do that, since Tommy isn't the one who thought of it. From what I've heard, Tommy's notorious for not wanting to get involved in good ideas if he didn't come up with it. I can think of a few ideas that were put in his decision to move with or not, and he's turned them down, then turned around and decided to do a half-assed version of the same thing. Perhaps it's not the greatest thing to be in a position where you need to have total control, from concept to end product, but you don't have the creative gumption to do anything really worthwhile.

Of course, I could be totally wrong aout all of that, but I doubt it.

Mckeever's response to that translated in Zentradi: "DECULCHA!!!"

[Einherjar]

To be honest, that's great for those that like to drive 4 + hours away (or fly) to cons, but what about the rest of the fan community? I mean word of mouth really doesn't do that much unless there's something to back it up, like an updated website.

Then I guess people aren't dedicated enough to the franchise to go through all expense to see the same 2 people playing up Robo-tech and believe the speculation/crazy troll logic from their "insiders."

[ps99042]

To be honest, that's great for those that like to drive 4 + hours away (or fly) to cons, but what about the rest of the fan community? I mean word of mouth really doesn't do that much unless there's something to back it up, like an updated website.

That's not true according to Mr. McKeevie who says word of mouth is huge for building hype and augments regular advertising. Want proof? Shadow Chronicles sold gangbusters. Yeah, not the strongest argument.

[Beltane70]

Am I supposed to take someone who says that something sold gangbusters seriously?

[Legioss]

Shadow Chronicles won the Animated Movie Special Olympics that year. It was their big success. They can win again but they need enough people to push the wheelchair and rig the game for them.

[Smegalot]

It sold gangbusters? maybe for a little bit when it first came out. But not anymore, seems to be on special every where on the web these days. Sort of like that they can't give it away...lol

But yeah gangbusters, is that even a word? Or does it mean that is was used to bust up gangs........

[azrael]

It sold gangbusters? maybe for a little bit when it first came out. But not anymore, seems to be on special every where on the web these days. Sort of like that they can't give it away...lol

But yeah gangbusters, is that even a word? Or does it mean that is was used to bust up gangs........

IIRC, Tom Bateman stated that it sold well enough to make a sequel, in his opinion.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=33067&view=findpost&p=886898

The sad part is, nothing materialized with the extra cash.

[Gubaba]

The sad part is, nothing materialized with the extra cash.

From my perspective, that's not sad.

[Keith]

IIRC, Tom Bateman stated that it sold well enough to make a sequel, in his opinion.

http://www.macrosswo...ndpost&p=886898

The sad part is, nothing materialized with the extra cash.

That's because any profit robotech makes is automatically delegated towards the much bigger losses it has made over the years.

[anime52k8]

That's because any profit robotech makes is automatically delegated towards the much bigger losses it has made over the years.

I just figured it was all going towards hookers and blow for Tommy and Kevin.

Edited May 13, 2011 by anime52k8

[Funkenstein]

I just figured it was all going towards hookers and blow for Tommy and Kevin.

It's all going to the purchase of 500 gb external hard drives.

[Keith]

I just figured it was all going towards hookers and blow for Tommy and Kevin.

Like they'd know what to do with a woman even if they paid one. Besides, I'm pretty sure even the hookers would get tired of being made to watch robotech.

[Tom Bateman]

That's because any profit robotech makes is automatically delegated towards the much bigger losses it has made over the years.

Yes, Shadow Chronicles was a financial success and it did very well as there was an interest in seeing ANY new Robotech after over 20 years. Just the fact that there was ANY new Robotech guaranteed a certain amount of success, no matter how good it actually was (i.e. The Phantom Menace). To keep beating your chest about that most simplistic of facts incessantly for the past four years has just gotten OLD. It's like a broken record to hear Kevin repeat this over, and over, and over, and over in front of any audience that will listen to him blather on about how healthy the Robotech franchise is, despite the tough economy. It's total bull---t.

What hasn't been mentioned by HG's marketing genius, is all the LOST revenue from any follow-ups that should have capitalized on the success of RTSC. We are talking MILLIONS of dollars that could have been made via home video, merchandising and video games.

Kevin fashions himself a master of "spin". The few people who actually attend his panels may buy it, but even the hardcore fans have mostly left Robotech for other franchises. Fond memories of a once great franchise? Yes. Hope for the future? No.

This is where Tommy, Steve and Kevin have egregiously FAILED as employees of Frank Agrama and Harmony Gold. They simply don't make HG a lot of money and they continue to fail every day. I don't even see how they justify their own paychecks, which combined are probably about $150,000 a year (just guessing). They'd better hope nobody checks.

[Jasonc]

Yes, Shadow Chronicles was a financial success and it did very well as there was an interest in seeing ANY new Robotech after over 20 years. Just the fact that there was ANY new Robotech guaranteed a certain amount of success, no matter how good it actually was (i.e. The Phantom Menace). To keep beating your chest about that most simplistic of facts incessantly for the past four years has just gotten OLD. It's like a broken record to hear Kevin repeat this over, and over, and over, and over in front of any audience that will listen to him blather on about how healthy the Robotech franchise is, despite the tough economy. It's total bull---t.

What hasn't been mentioned by HG's marketing genius, is all the LOST revenue from any follow-ups that should have capitalized on the success of RTSC. We are talking MILLIONS of dollars that could have been made via home video, merchandising and video games.

Kevin fashions himself a master of "spin". The few people who actually attend his panels may buy it, but even the hardcore fans have mostly left Robotech for other franchises. Fond memories of a once great franchise? Yes. Hope for the future? No.

This is where Tommy, Steve and Kevin have egregiously FAILED as employees of Frank Agrama and Harmony Gold. They simply don't make HG a lot of money and they continue to fail every day. I don't even see how they justify their own paychecks, which combined are probably about $150,000 a year (just guessing). They'd better hope nobody checks.

This reminds me of back in the day, when Kevin was spouting off with his "ratings and demographics" presentation, AT A PARTY no less, and was trying to make some argument based on old facts that supposedly made Robotech a viable source for networks today. How long will they try to milk a dry cow? If all they're gonna do is remember the glory days of Robotech, when none of the current staff was doing anything for the franchise, then what good are you?

I have noticed the correlation with the current staff trying to act like George Lucas, in running things on their own, not collaborating with others, not listening to the general consensus of fans, and be the makers of their own work, their own destiny. Some differences are, however, that at least George Lucas made good stuff at one point, I'm still waiting for this staff to do anything in the ball park. Also, Mr. Lucas marketed great toys, where HG barely even has a line (a velcro wallet??? C'mon!) Mr. Lucas also made his franchise billions, and, well, this is Robotech, and a poor reflection of it, even at that.

Man, I'm full from a good meal, and tired. OK, onto better stuff.

[Seto Kaiba]

Yes, Shadow Chronicles was a financial success and it did very well as there was an interest in seeing ANY new Robotech after over 20 years. Just the fact that there was ANY new Robotech guaranteed a certain amount of success, no matter how good it actually was (i.e. The Phantom Menace).

Something I've been saying for years... it's kind of weird seeing it come from someone who was actually involved with the movie at one point though. It was a given that the Shadow Chronicles movie OVA overlong intro cinematic was going to sell, at least with the existing fanbase, being that it was the first new Robotech animation to be released since Harmony Gold tried to salvage the crash-and-burn failure of Robotech II: the Sentinels by selling the wreckage to Robotech fans as that same kind of "movie". At the time it came out, Shadow Chronicles was virtually guaranteed to get a pass regardless of quality just because it was something new with the Robotech name on it.

Kevin fashions himself a master of "spin". The few people who actually attend his panels may buy it, but even the hardcore fans have mostly left Robotech for other franchises. Fond memories of a once great franchise? Yes. Hope for the future? No.

Honestly, I don't think Kevin expects anyone apart from the "Robotech faithful" to take the things he says seriously. He's an idiot, but by now even he has to have noticed that his job is less to do with marketing Robotech to anime enthusiasts who haven't seen it yet than reassuring the existing fanbase that they aren't wasting their time on a dead franchise. McKeever's behavior on Robotech.com shows that he knows it's easier by far to just get rid of the inconveniently sharp people who don't buy his garbage instead of trying to convince them.

[ps99042]

Something I've been saying for years... it's kind of weird seeing it come from someone who was actually involved with the movie at one point though. It was a given that the Shadow Chronicles movie OVA overlong intro cinematic was going to sell, at least with the existing fanbase, being that it was the first new Robotech animation to be released since Harmony Gold tried to salvage the crash-and-burn failure of Robotech II: the Sentinels by selling the wreckage to Robotech fans as that same kind of "movie". At the time it came out, Shadow Chronicles was virtually guaranteed to get a pass regardless of quality just because it was something new with the Robotech name on it.

Honestly, I don't think Kevin expects anyone apart from the "Robotech faithful" to take the things he says seriously. He's an idiot, but by now even he has to have noticed that his job is less to do with marketing Robotech to anime enthusiasts who haven't seen it yet than reassuring the existing fanbase that they aren't wasting their time on a dead franchise. McKeever's behavior on Robotech.com shows that he knows it's easier by far to just get rid of the inconveniently sharp people who don't buy his garbage instead of trying to convince them.

Being a recently banned rt.com member, reading this made me decide to check out the site again. It really seems to be more dead than ever after Kevie's behavior though a couple fans are questioning the "new" stills in the Chinese TPB. Guess Kevie's right about not using rt.com to advertise the new sidequel since no one visits the site anymore. Luckily, I'm sure we'll be hearing news soon since the summer con season is right around the corner. I still find it surprising that no one other than Memo has jumped online to talk about the preview shown at cons though. Afterall, someone else out of the 30 attendees must use the internet, right?

[Einherjar]

Luckily, I'm sure we'll be hearing news soon since the summer con season is right around the corner. I still find it surprising that no one other than Memo has jumped online to talk about the preview shown at cons though. Afterall, someone else out of the 30 attendees must use the internet, right?

A short and quick response from my personal experience - no, you might hear nothing significant about Robo-Tech this summer, but expect MEMO to make a big deal about whatever happens. That's really all he does online. But hey, like every other year there might be a slim, slim chance that you'll hear something exciting coming around... projected in about a year following the announcement.

Actually, that might not be true. Followers of the Palladium RPG will definitely get something involving Robo-Tech.

[blackconvoy_D01]

Being a recently banned rt.com member, reading this made me decide to check out the site again. It really seems to be more dead than ever after Kevie's behavior though a couple fans are questioning the "new" stills in the Chinese TPB. Guess Kevie's right about not using rt.com to advertise the new sidequel since no one visits the site anymore. Luckily, I'm sure we'll be hearing news soon since the summer con season is right around the corner. I still find it surprising that no one other than Memo has jumped online to talk about the preview shown at cons though. Afterall, someone else out of the 30 attendees must use the internet, right?

Speaking of banned... I'm thinking I'll get the ax for this one:

Things you DON'T like about Robotech Thread

magna_mozz69

Rank: Corporal

Subject: HA!!!!

Posted on: May 14, 2011 - 2:52:14 PM

1-Kevin McKeveer

2-HG Executive management for mishandling the RT franchise.

3-HG co*k blocking wall disallowing Macross into the states, so that RT fans can remain stagnate with this withering brand.

4-Tommy Yune's lack of muster when it comes to aggressivly push new designs, expanding on the RT mecha line.

5-HG creative teams lack of ability to meet deadlines with media productions.

6-Giving product to limited markets while the primary market clamors for revised material or new material.

7-The fact the HG doesnt listen to fans who live in the real world, who spend money on product.

8-For not being smart, and releasing Macross in the states as a seperate entity.

9-HG having nothing but complete and unyielding ammounts of fear of failure.

Sorry but I've really had it with Robo-Tech.

Edited May 14, 2011 by blackconvoy_D01