HG and Robotech Debates

[Keith]

Even Agrama will have to eventually wonder wtf is going on when contemporary kids shows have had fully produced TV series in less time than the Shadow Squad take to put together a power point presentation about why they haven't done anything yet.

Note: I have now dubbed Yun & gang "The Shadow Squad." I have dubbed them so because I imagine they spend their days going on adventures looking for monsters, and exclaiming "wolfman's got nards" & "mummy lives in my room."

Edited April 3, 2011 by Keith

[blackconvoy_D01]

The Robo-Tech Shadow Squad who follow the ways of McKeeverism. Perhaps Agrama is a member.

Edited April 3, 2011 by blackconvoy_D01

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Even Agrama will have to eventually wonder wtf is going on when contemporary kids shows have had fully produced TV series in less time than the Shadow Squad take to put together a power point presentation about why they haven't done anything yet.

Note: I have now dubbed Yun & gang "The Shadow Squad." I have dubbed them so because I imagine they spend their days going on adventures looking for monsters, and exclaiming "wolfman's got nards" & "mummy lives in my room."

Someone's been watching Monster Squad reccently.

Edited April 4, 2011 by SkullLeaderVF-X

[HappyPenguins]

HG needs to finish the sentinels..........we need to see Breetai in his speedo =X

Breetai's reaction to above photo

Edited April 4, 2011 by HappyPenguins

[chrisk]

HG needs to finish the sentinels..........we need to see Breetai in his speedo =X

This must Robotech's very own "Starwars: Holiday Special". Besides Robotech 3000 of course.

This debate end?!! Such a thought is blasphemy and punishable by.....umm.. a dougbendo podcast. Yeah that's the ticket.

Hey, it's a slow news week. Things will pick up in the coming months. I hope.

Edited April 4, 2011 by chrisk

[Shaorin]

Wow that update on the RT facebook page is riverting. Am thinking that maybe next time I buy an external HD I'll post it to show people that I am serious about keeping my data safe.....

GUESS WHAT, PEOPLE!!

i have an external HD! it has MANY neat things on it,

including some ROBOTECHtm S%$t!!

this means that VERY EXCITING things are happening for the ROBOTECHtm franchise!!

expect BIG things to come in the coming year, Peeps!!

[Keith]

I hope you realise that your external HD, and any PC's attached to it now belong to HG. You must surrender them immediately, or face legal action.

[chrisk]

I hope you realise that your external HD, and any PC's attached to it now belong to HG. You must surrender them immediately, or face legal action.

Why does McKeever want us to care about this harddrive?

BTW, since the fascinating world of Robotech is pretty much dead until San Diego, maybe you guys would be pleased to find out some of the latest developments in the fandom:

The return of the old RDF Underground podcast, run by Justy Ueki I believe:

http://rdfunderground.com/

The return of Jonathan Switzer, or whom many Robotech fans know as Captain JLS is back blogging about classic Robotech:

http://sdf5x.wordpress.com/

Hopefully this will entertain people until there is something new to talk about...

Edited April 5, 2011 by chrisk

[Renato]

HG needs to finish the sentinels..........we need to see Breetai in his speedo =X

OK, next time I go to one of Mikimoto's exhibitions I'm going to ask him to sign a printout of that pic.

[Gubaba]

OK, next time I go to one of Mikimoto's exhibitions I'm going to ask him to sign a printout of that pic.

Funny...I was just saying earlier today (and elsewhere) that I'd LOVE to see Mikimoto's face upon seeing the Robotech swimsuit issue...

Looks like I might get my wish, huh?

[Shaorin]

I hope you realise that your external HD, and any PC's attached to it now belong to HG. You must surrender them immediately, or face legal action.

oh god, SOMEBODY HELP MEEE!!!!!!

As far as DR MOVIE is concerned, the work they did on Shadow Chronicles was low grade, HOWEVER as a studio I do believe they are quite capable. I am more of the belief that the quality of Shadow Chronicles was a result of the seemingly low budget alotted to the project. If a superior budget was in place with a measure of consistent quality control, the DR MOVIE would be quite capable of a good product. if the major studios of Japan including MADHOUSE, Sunrise(My favorites), and Ghibli are confident to work with them then that says something.

DR MOVIE had involvement in MACROSS PLUS, after all...

Edited April 5, 2011 by Shaorin

[Jasonc]

The question about the quality of work from DR Movie shouldn't be questioned. They've worked on the above mentioned shows, as well as Yukikaze. Obviously, they seem to have the stuff to get good stuff out. So, why does RTSC look so crappy? Well, it's got a lot to do with direction, or lack thereof. From what I know, HG, i.e. Tommy pretty much took all the reigns of overseeing the project. Maybe outta fear, greed, or whatever reason, he took all control of that area, and it seems like he signed off on a lot of half assed stuff. Everybody looking like comic book super heroes, "Check". Every female getting a boob job and wearing Vegas showgirl costumes, "Check". Stiff animation and cut and paste action, "Check". As has been speculated above, the writing was given to Ford Riley, but apparently, he was very confined by what he could do, and in my personal conversations with him, he wanted to do the first opening sequence (or the first 30 minutes or so) differently. As to what, I didn't ask, but he had to do what he was given.

In that light, it seems like the writers, art, and animation direction is only as good as the one in charge, in this case, the creative director. Lack of creativity, and lack of any good direction is evident, but this shouldn't reflect on the Voice actors in one bit. As an actor, you're given a script, and you do what you can to make it work the best way possible. Sometimes there's just no saving bad story,, bad lines, no matter who you are. In RTSC, I will commend the Voice actors for doing their best, to Richard Epcar, for steppig to the plate and taking over, I believe, the ADR role and saving what it would've been, Ford Riley for at least trying and having to work under a heavy thumb, and to composer Scott Glasgow for a better than expected OST. You think one bad apple can spoil a bunch? I think so.

[boganrobotlightning]

Someone's been watching Monster Squad reccently.

I guess you guys have all seen the "Robotech Pyjamas" scene in Monster Squad?

I hadn't thought of that movie in years. Thanks.

[Darkwater]

If you guys care, another interesting look into the mind of McKeever. I apologize for the assload of quotes, but I found this too interesting.

On his last blog post:

http://bankofkev.blogspot.com/2011/04/box-office-down-20-so-far-this-year.html

BOX OFFICE DOWN 20% SO FAR THIS YEAR

During one of my panels at Tekkoshocon this past weekend I pointed out that the Theatrical Box Office is down 20% so far this year. Now comes an article, via Big Hollywood, supporting that claim.

While [Hop's] gross was slightly below the $38.1 million recorded for Rango last month, making it the second-highest-grossing film of the year, it was far overshadowed by last year’s Clash of the Titans, which opened during the same weekend (Easter weekend) with $61.2 million.

Indeed, the total domestic box office this weekend came in at 29.6 percent below the same weekend a year ago. For the year, total box-office revenue is down 20.3 percent, while attendance is down 21.5 percent.

A 20% loss in revenue and we are already 3 months into the year. This 20% loss in revenue is despite numerous large marketing campaigns by several studios for movies that have fizzled. If this keeps up it will cause a severe crimp in revenue (theatrical runs are 15% of a films total business) for the studios.

Now would be a good time for the people who "know this business" to explain how a 20% loss in revenue and losing 18 million subscribers is somehow a good thing.

Remember when I said a few weeks ago something to the effect of "you attack Robotech's marketing, you're attacking Kevin personally?"

Looks at his first comment:

A 20% loss in revenue and we are already 3 months into the year. This 20% loss in revenue is despite numerous large marketing campaigns by several studios for movies that have fizzled. If this keeps up it will cause a severe crimp in revenue (theatrical runs are 15% of a films total business) for the studios.

Interesting note, the article had no mention that marketing was the reason why box offices were down 20%. None, at all. Nor did it mention that studios were spending a ton of money this marketing.

Let's look at the next comment:

Now would be a good time for the people who "know this business" to explain how a 20% loss in revenue and losing 18 million subscribers is somehow a good thing.

Now, remember when I said that him referring to people who "know this business," he's referring to me? I would love to take the flamebait and actually oblige him, but the article he's linked to has already explained it for me.

One of the dirty little secrets behind the box office revenues of the last few years is that the year was saved by one humongous and somewhat unexpected hit: “Alice in Wonderland,” “Avatar,” “The Dark Knight.” One stumble, and instead of flatlining attendance, you have a calamitous year.

This year is packed with a record number of sequels, franchises, remakes, and remakes of sequel franchises. We’ll see. A healthy industry is good for everyone, but the industry isn’t looking too healthy right now and we’re already three months in.

So to paraphrase, it's too early to tell as we're only 25% into the year. And what does Kevin mean by losing "18 Million subscribers?" I can't tell you, because again, there no reference to that (or even what they're a subscriber to) anywhere. Subscribers to cell phones? Netflix? Cable? I don't know.

But this all goes back to what I was talking about earlier, he wants to justify his method of marketing, which I guess is to convey the message that NO marketing is the BEST marketing. Now, I love watching people make weird rationalizations and then break them down (hence the entertainment factor I get from Bendo), but I'm fully aware of my own problems.

ps mods - this is actually Darkwater, even though I recently posted as Darkwater1. I actually forgot one password, but remembered the other.

[Einherjar]

If you guys care, another interesting look into the mind of McKeever. I apologize for the assload of quotes, but I found this too interesting.

On his last blog post:

http://bankofkev.blogspot.com/2011/04/box-office-down-20-so-far-this-year.html

So what point was Mckeever trying to make? Is Robo-tech going to unexpectedly come around like a phoenix and find success in this situation? The LAM is in development hell, probably not coming to take advantage of this slump he's suggesting in time, and the only thing HG is offering is a potential side story that people may or may not like want at this time and production-wise may or may not even be done by this year.

In fact, what does anything happening in Hollywood have to do with McKeever at this time? His only concern/sphere of influence is Robo-tech. He's not in MGM, Fox, Paramount, etc. He's in Harmony freakin' Gold.

Person in the biz: "Harmony What?"

Einherjar: "Exactly."

Edited April 6, 2011 by Einherjar

[Darkwater]

So what point was Mckeever trying to make?

He actually has, on a number of occasions, compared the success of of RSC with the "failure" of Superman Returns (ironically, a WB property). If anyone remembers, it had a huge marketing blitz and more or less broke even in the box office. (while ignoring the profits from television, merchandising, international b.o. and home video rights). Often time he refers to being more successful than their "competitors" in 2006, and while it goes over the heads of 99% of the people who read it, that's what he's referring to.

So yes, Kevin is comparing Harmony Gold to Warner Bros.

Person in the biz: "Harmony What?"

Einherjar: "Exactly."

The funniest part is, I've heard that on nearly every occasion from "persons in the biz." All three of the occasions.

[Jasonc]

If you guys care, another interesting look into the mind of McKeever. I apologize for the assload of quotes, but I found this too interesting.

On his last blog post:

http://bankofkev.blogspot.com/2011/04/box-office-down-20-so-far-this-year.html

Remember when I said a few weeks ago something to the effect of "you attack Robotech's marketing, you're attacking Kevin personally?"

Looks at his first comment:

Interesting note, the article had no mention that marketing was the reason why box offices were down 20%. None, at all. Nor did it mention that studios were spending a ton of money this marketing.

Let's look at the next comment:

Now, remember when I said that him referring to people who "know this business," he's referring to me? I would love to take the flamebait and actually oblige him, but the article he's linked to has already explained it for me.

So to paraphrase, it's too early to tell as we're only 25% into the year. And what does Kevin mean by losing "18 Million subscribers?" I can't tell you, because again, there no reference to that (or even what they're a subscriber to) anywhere. Subscribers to cell phones? Netflix? Cable? I don't know.

But this all goes back to what I was talking about earlier, he wants to justify his method of marketing, which I guess is to convey the message that NO marketing is the BEST marketing. Now, I love watching people make weird rationalizations and then break them down (hence the entertainment factor I get from Bendo), but I'm fully aware of my own problems.

ps mods - this is actually Darkwater, even though I recently posted as Darkwater1. I actually forgot one password, but remembered the other.

These comparisons don't really make much sense from Kevin. As you and I have discussed on several occasions, it's funny to see someone who works for such a small film industy Co. try to understand how the big fish sees things. Especially when trying to correlate the sales figures of new released movies, to a very subjective point, like justifying his convention marketing. Apples and Oranges, McKeever. You know, HG should consider going into business as a hardware store, what with all the "TOOLS" they have in their employment.

[chrisk]

This 20% loss in (box office) revenue is despite numerous large marketing campaigns by several studios for movies that have fizzled. If this keeps up it will cause a severe crimp in revenue (theatrical runs are 15% of a films total business) for the studios...

Kevin is comparing Harmony Gold to Warner Bros.

Didn't Shadow Chronicles get an aggressive marketing campaign by Funimation? I saw banner ads on a number of geek/tech sites, it got a number of trailers online, screenings on filmfests around the Steates (complete with made-up awards) and the making-of was put up on youtube as well. And wasn't it thanks to this campaign funded by Funimation, plus the wave of nostalgia affecting the country that the film sold gangbusters? On paper, this sounds like a big freaking campaign!

Maybe Harmony Gold hates the idea of too much "pre-release" hype? But then wasn't their a handful of panel videos that showcased actual concept art, and trailers? People even got the trashy prelude comic book, with the main teaser being what does Hikaru/Rick Hunter look like after twenty years? There was an infamous United Nations commercial spot as well which showcased the animation years before the final product as well. I also recall a certain fan insiders (Not MEMO or McKeever) that conducted impromptu interviews with cast members and unofficial trailers. In-between the finalization of the distribution deal, there were lies and a lot of nasty politics and delays going on, but the point is there was still a fairly visible effort of an online campaign.

So McKeever doesn't believe in big marketing campaigns, but also doesn't believe in building up pre-release hype? What then?

Why does this guy have a job?

Kids, Mr. McKeever wants you to know that the "failure" of Superman Returns is the reason why they will NEVER invest in any sort of marketing whatsoever. Keep the fanboys happy by continuing to post pictures of harddrives, lame "mystery boxes" and office pictures on a popular social networking sites! Keep all content convention exclusive! And use someone else's blogspot URL as your main marketing hub! It's a shame that Robotech will never reach its full potential the way these chumps are running things...

Edited April 6, 2011 by chrisk

[Keith]

And what the hell was the RSC U.N. Promo? Seriously, WTF was that about? What did it have to do with "a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g-?"

[chrisk]

And what the hell was the RSC U.N. Promo? Seriously, WTF was that about? What did it have to do with "a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g-?"

I recall an uproar from some fans that hated the UN for things they did in the past. I seem to recall McKeever and the mods censored people from putting up any political opinions besides praise for the spot. It was posted on the official RT website, and I think it was bundled with the DVD/Blu-ray releases and it featured updated Mospeada character designs (correct me on this). Just another tool to showcase the animation...

Edited April 6, 2011 by chrisk

[Darkwater]

I'm actually acquainted with the producer of the UN PSA and talked to her about. She's basically a supporter of the peace-keeping efforts behind the UN and wanted to support that end, yet it didn't help that at the time the UN wasn't wasn't supporting the war in Iraq, so it became political. She worked in sales at HG at the time and basically said "Can I produce this?" and HG was like "sure!" When all of the politics erupted, she was all like "wtf???" (I'm paraphrasing here) because she didn't mean for it be political in that sense.

I might have gotten that thing on TV, I worked for Fox at the time got it on a satellite feed to the local affiliate stations in each individual city. Whether or not they decided to air it, I have no clue. But if it did, then I'm responsible for getting Robotech on the US Airwaves

And actually, it wasn't on the DVD or Blu-Ray, and since I was sent a DVD screener from HG, I've got one of the few "official" DVD copies of that things BOOO-YAAAAHHH

But yeah, that's what happened. And it acted as a "teaser" to RSC, albeit an odd form of a teaser. I think Tommy loved it, because it was something he could actually show at the cons.

Now click on the image and get hypnotized.

[Legioss]

It was weirdness like the bombing the Smurfs Unicef commercial. It was very inappropriate. The Robotech UN spot was an advertisement for the UN's website that equates the UN with peace and celebrates their 60th anniversary by comparing it to Robotech. That it features Robotech is more random than one of dayjoborchestra's Youtube videos. Maybe nobody else bid to have their property in the commercial. I don't know. It's so weird and awkward. It's not even really a commercial as far as it's effect on the viewer. It's like some kind of wang size demonstration for Tommy to flaunt that he can do anything with Robotech he wants no matter how weird, like they didn't expect anyone except Robotech fans to watch it.

[Keith]

It was weirdness like the bombing the Smurfs Unicef commercial. It was very inappropriate. The Robotech UN spot was an advertisement for the UN's website that equates the UN with peace and celebrates their 60th anniversary by comparing it to Robotech. That it features Robotech is more random than one of dayjoborchestra's Youtube videos. Maybe nobody else bid to have their property in the commercial. I don't know. It's so weird and awkward. It's not even really a commercial as far as it's effect on the viewer. It's like some kind of wang size demonstration for Tommy to flaunt that he can do anything with Robotech he wants no matter how weird, like they didn't expect anyone except Robotech fans to watch it.

What he said.

[chrisk]

It was weirdness like the bombing the Smurfs Unicef commercial. It was very inappropriate. The Robotech UN spot was an advertisement for the UN's website that equates the UN with peace and celebrates their 60th anniversary by comparing it to Robotech... I don't know. It's so weird and awkward. It's not even really a commercial as far as it's effect on the viewer. It's like some kind of wang size demonstration for Tommy to flaunt that he can do anything with Robotech he wants no matter how weird, like they didn't expect anyone except Robotech fans to watch it.

The UN spot was really out there, and about as badly times as the Mospeada/New Gen cellphone game nobody cared about. Nothing Harmony Gold has done since then has had quite the same notoriety. Maybe in retrospect Tommy realized it was a mistake?

And actually, it wasn't on the DVD or Blu-Ray, and since I was sent a DVD screener from HG, I've got one of the few "official" DVD copies of that things BOOO-YAAAAHHH

You must be so proud. Does it sit beside your autographed copy of Shadow Chronicles?

Darkwater, for the sake of this endless discussion, what defense does McKeever have against the Funimation-backed marketing campaign of Shadow Chronicles and the respectable fan-driven pre-release hype that came before it, as compared to the zero buzz McKeever-driven marketing buzzkill the alleged 2011 sidequel is getting?

Edited April 6, 2011 by chrisk

[Keith]

Don't forget all of HG's own "Hey, we've premiered our movie during major film festivals (thought not actually "in" them).

[Funkenstein]

Don't forget all of HG's own "Hey, we've premiered our movie during major film festivals (thought not actually "in" them).

Or getting awards for SF animation at festivals where they were the only SF animation present.

[ps99042]

Or getting awards for SF animation at festivals where they were the only SF animation present.

I think SC's best claim to fame is how they were #1 on Hulu cause it's way better than Jonah: A VeggiesTales Movie. Too bad now SC is ranked #3 of all time on the site.

[HappyPenguins]

I think SC's best claim to fame is how they were #1 on Hulu cause it's way better than Jonah: A VeggiesTales Movie. Too bad now SC is ranked #3 of all time on the site.

The veggietales movie just needed big ridiculous boobs, then it could have easily stolen the #1 spot

[azrael]

The veggietales movie just needed big ridiculous boobs melons, then it could have easily stolen the #1 spot

If you're gonna cite VeggieTales, use the proper lingo.

[HappyPenguins]

If you're gonna cite VeggieTales, use the proper lingo.

lmao oh that's right

[Atharun]

One of the things that bothers me about HG are the cease and desist letters certain groups get while other are ignored. For instance a while back, wasn't there a fan group working on a Robotech animation/cgi hybrid? Well if I remember correctly they were told to stop yet the peeps in Argentina are allowed to do their live action fan film? That makes no sense.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Richardmvela

[Smegalot]

That's and easy one. they probably stop the animated one's just incase the amature animation is better then what they put out.

[chrisk]

One of the things that bothers me about HG are the cease and desist letters certain groups get while other are ignored. For instance a while back, wasn't there a fan group working on a Robotech animation/cgi hybrid? Well if I remember correctly they were told to stop yet the peeps in Argentina are allowed to do their live action fan film? That makes no sense.

Harmony Gold, in its infinite impartiality, picks and chooses who they shutdown. Some people may recall Yune and company went so far as to go after the animator's personal fan art on deviantart. And if someone starts thinking of starting a debate on copyright or fair use, there's a fairly high profile live action fan film in production somewhere in South America. It has gained support from bizzaro sites like RTX.com so I suppose it has the blessing from HG. Par the course in making the property look like the most awesome, fun thing in the pop culture landscape! Just don't f*** with the Yunes.

BTW, that guy who runs the Robotech podcast "Protoculture Times" actually messaged Cary Fukunaga, the director that was allegedly offered the role to direct the Robotech live action movie, and he courteously replied.

...You'll forgive me if after I set the record straight, I'm not huge on correspondences... but definitely thank you for at least asking me what was the what!

One, Warner does indeed have a project of which I have been made aware.

Two, I am a fan of the animé as was my brother growing up and jealously, he had a lot of the models. In fact I still own the complete original series on DVD and it moves w/ me from location to location.

Three, I have not passed nor have I been offered the gig.

I don't know which interview or screening this soundbite is from, but I simply meant there is that tent pole genre of film, that summer time pop corn film, that I am not interested in directing yet. There may or may not have been versions of the Robotech script that fell into that category. That doesn't mean that "Robotech" is a property doesn't interest me, or is not a film that couldn't transcend that genre, it definitely could go above and beyond that.

Hope that clears the air.

Thanks for reaching out.

Best,

Cary

Do not under any circumstances, expect an apology from MEMO for saying a lot of nasty things about this guy.

Edited April 7, 2011 by chrisk

[Zen72]

Do not under any circumstances, expect an apology from MEMO for saying a lot of nasty things about this guy.

Oh you gotta read the whole thread over at RTX....this guy gets hammered by everyone and he makes some of the most INCOHERENT arguments I have ever seen. But I know that's his shtick....playing the dummy in front of the obvious. He's unencumbered by the TRUTH....unless Tommy tells him to be.

Then when I posted Cary's response to my ...you see a change of tune faster than a DJ on Friday night! And you're right Chris, this GUY will NEVER admit he was wrong......unless Tommy tells him so.

Link:http://www.robotechx.com/forums/3-robotech-live-action/15063-cary-fukunaga-approached-to-direct-robotech-lamturns-it-down.html

WARNING: His responses give migraines...

[BeyondTheGrave]

WARNING: His responses give migraines...

No that's dougbendo's post, podcast, youtube videos, flames regarding seto, letters to santa, etc.