HG and Robotech Debates

[Atharun]

One of the things I things that can get stale with Robotech are the constant attacks on Earth. While this is the premise of gthe original series, remember it ended with Scott leaving to look for the Admiral who himself went to look in the Sentinels. By taking the story off Earth we get to explore the RT universe more and finally see a push back by humanity. TSC however did not do this is a remotely interesting way.

By visiting Haydon, Tirol, etc etc etc....we have a reason to see continued developement of various Veritechs and technology thus expanding the universe in it's own directon getting away from the design of the original series. AT least this is how I imagine it. It simply gives it a reason to be original.

[Jasonc]

That work definitely would've been better than Shadow Chronicles. I think everyone's got a "vision" of how they'd like to have seen a sequel to Robotech go, and one's perfect sequel is someone else's craptastic work. I guess the weight of it all comes out to the ratios of how many like it vs. how many don't. RTSC probably had a bit too many people not like it. I would have been more interested in seeing Shadow Force much more. I think the only problem you may not have been able to escape is the cheap animation that it was/would've been made into. HG just cut too many corners in RTSC. Yeah the story sucked, but at least they coulda had great animation. No, they didn't have that, but at least they coulda had some great action scenes. No, not there either, but the characters were good, right? No, the characters sucked as well as the script, so basically if you fix one problem, there's too many others to bring it down. Shadow Force would've at least had 10 times the chance at being better. Just my opinion, and it's only that, no right or wrong about it.

[Atharun]

Speaking of the animation quality, if you ever have the oppurtunity to watch the intro for DR Movie's Metal Fighter T-Boys, you can get a chance to see that can put out quality animtion as a stand alone firm. While I have never seen the show itself the intro was fairly well done with none of the inconsistencies of RTSC. My question is where was the quality control durring the making of RTSC and at what point did the staff realize the finished product was sub standard?

[HappyPenguins]

Speaking of the animation quality, if you ever have the oppurtunity to watch the intro for DR Movie's Metal Fighter T-Boys, you can get a chance to see that can put out quality animtion as a stand alone firm. While I have never seen the show itself the intro was fairly well done with none of the inconsistencies of RTSC. My question is where was the quality control durring the making of RTSC and at what point did the staff realize the finished product was sub standard?

You think the staff cared it was sub standard? LOL, they half-assed it because they knew their most loyal fans wouldn't care. It had "ROBOTECH" on it, therefore it would sell, and it did. Sadly the steaming pile of crap did well enough to warrant a sequel (one we'll never see btw!)

It's never been about quality when it comes to HG, they've always cut corners. Just look at their recent merchandise for example. The Maia (gag) Shadow Fighter had been recalled, what twice? And they're still using that same damn company. That says a lot right there doesn't it? If a company screws up more than once, don't you think it's time to find a better one? Nope, not in HG's case. The cheaper the better!

[mage]

You think the staff cared it was sub standard? LOL, they half-assed it because they knew their most loyal fans wouldn't care. It had "ROBOTECH" on it, therefore it would sell, and it did. Sadly the steaming pile of crap did well enough to warrant a sequel (one we'll never see btw!)

It's never been about quality when it comes to HG, they've always cut corners. Just look at their recent merchandise for example. The Maia (gag) Shadow Fighter had been recalled, what twice? And they're still using that same damn company. That says a lot right there doesn't it? If a company screws up more than once, don't you think it's time to find a better one? Nope, not in HG's case. The cheaper the better!

i agree, who needs creativity when you can slap "robotech" on it and swim in fanboy money?

[Atharun]

Toynami has definately had their issues but I have heard great things about the Betas as well as the Voltron stuff. Mixed results aside though, I know the Alpha has MANY complaints. Now is it that HG doesn't care about quality or the fact that the people running the show aren't qualified and as a result we get sub par products? I am inclined to believe it is a mix of both.

Also I would imagine the "fanboy money" is drying up. With no real product to buy it seems to me that HG is floating on licensing money or just some of their own back money. If you look at the online store, most of the items are out of stock and haven't been re-filled in how long? Also the comics are not being sold here in the states anymore but yet are getting released as trades in Chine? Mugs and hats...yeah I don;t imagine them selling many of those. If you go to the main RT site you will actually see many people aside from a handfull are growing increasingly frustrated/anxious or simply leaving the site all together. Just look at the fact that pic released here was such an uproar becaus epeople are so starved for some product.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Richardmvela

[HappyPenguins]

Toynami has definately had their issues but I have heard great things about the Betas as well as the Voltron stuff. Mixed results aside though, I know the Alpha has MANY complaints. Now is it that HG doesn't care about quality or the fact that the people running the show aren't qualified and as a result we get sub par products. I am inclined to believe it is a mix of both.

Well you gotta remember this, Robotech is not their number one priority here, but neither are they qualified to handle the franchise either. (just look at the franchise's recent history) They don't care about the quality, but they also don't know what the hell they are doing, or maybe they do but just don't care? It's hard to say when fans wait so patiently for some kind of news, but are left in the dark time and time again. Even with the live action movie. HG could at least still let the fanbase know that it is happening, same with any other projects they are working on, or "supposedly" working on. When they won't release any information it just frustrates fans. Remember what happened with TSC? They kept the info on the down-low and in doing so, caused a lot of fans to just give up. I remember the slew of threads on RT.com that year all complaining about how they're never going to see the movie. And when we got more teasers and the trailer, then there was the problem of finding a distributor for it, and of course the release date kept getting pushed back. What is that? That is prime examples of bad business...plain and simple. And whatever they've got planned for 2011? I bet it's going to be TSC all over again.

Also I would imagine the "fanboy money" is drying up. With no real product to buy it seems to me that HG is floating on licensing money or just some of their own back money. If you look at the online store, most of the items are out of stock and haven't been re-filled in how long? Also the comics are not being sold here in the states anymore but yet are getting released as trades in Chine? Mugs and hats...yeah I don;t imagine them selling many of those. If you go to the main RT site you will actually see many people aside from a handfull are growing increasingly frustrated/anxious or simply leaving the site all together. Just look at the fact that pic released here was such an uproar becaus epeople are so starved for some product.

They can't even handle basic "supply and demand". They need to understand that in order to SELL merchandise, you need to HAVE merchandise. This "out-of-stock" crap is inexcusable. And more fans are leaving the site? Why am I not surprised at all? Starving the fan-base? Oh my, seems to me like they're doing it on purpose so when the final movie of 2011 is released, fans won't give a damn about how crappy it is, they'll just cling to it because it's ROBOTECH. But notice how it's only been RT in name and not essence? Tommy may be the creative director, but he hasn't a damn clue about what the original 85 so memorable. He has NO knowledge the real magic that made the series what it is. He's just taken it and made it his own.

Edited December 26, 2010 by HappyPenguins

[Atharun]

I think that is why they are saying that it will be completed in 2011 but are not saying ti will be released in 2011.

[Keith]

Speaking of the animation quality, if you ever have the oppurtunity to watch the intro for DR Movie's Metal Fighter T-Boys, you can get a chance to see that can put out quality animtion as a stand alone firm. While I have never seen the show itself the intro was fairly well done with none of the inconsistencies of RTSC. My question is where was the quality control durring the making of RTSC and at what point did the staff realize the finished product was sub standard?

Quality work ain't free, and you get what you pay for.

[Jasonc]

Speaking of the animation quality, if you ever have the oppurtunity to watch the intro for DR Movie's Metal Fighter T-Boys, you can get a chance to see that can put out quality animtion as a stand alone firm. While I have never seen the show itself the intro was fairly well done with none of the inconsistencies of RTSC. My question is where was the quality control durring the making of RTSC and at what point did the staff realize the finished product was sub standard?

That's definitely a question that only a staff member could answer, mainly Tommy Yune. As creative director, and someone who did mention working first hand on this thing, the responsibilit of final product animation wise would fall on him. My opinion was that he was too busy putting a spin job on other issues and too busy hyping up the movie, than actually working on the details of it. Then again, it also doesn't help that they took a semi-decent studio, and didn't make a decent monetary investment into the product. As it's been pointed out, they probably knew that it'd sell anyways because it had the Robotech name on it, so to them, it didn't matter that it had any real quality to it.

Toynami has definately had their issues but I have heard great things about the Betas as well as the Voltron stuff. Mixed results aside though, I know the Alpha has MANY complaints. Now is it that HG doesn't care about quality or the fact that the people running the show aren't qualified and as a result we get sub par products? I am inclined to believe it is a mix of both.

Also I would imagine the "fanboy money" is drying up. With no real product to buy it seems to me that HG is floating on licensing money or just some of their own back money. If you look at the online store, most of the items are out of stock and haven't been re-filled in how long? Also the comics are not being sold here in the states anymore but yet are getting released as trades in Chine? Mugs and hats...yeah I don;t imagine them selling many of those. If you go to the main RT site you will actually see many people aside from a handfull are growing increasingly frustrated/anxious or simply leaving the site all together. Just look at the fact that pic released here was such an uproar becaus epeople are so starved for some product.

In regards to Toynami, they have the ability to put out good toys, but I think they are behind when it comes to more complex engineering. Then again, it seems like Toynami doesn't have the staff that say, Bandai or Yamato have. You also can't count the MPC Cyclones, or the Megahouse ride armors, because those were done by Japanese companies, and just licensed over here under Toynami. I don't think Toynami is a bad company...their toys are hit and miss, more miss on the transformable stuff, but they are still young in that dept. To get a good product, you have to invest money, and I don't think Robotech is their bread and butter.

On your last point about the product, yeah, I agree with you on the merchandise. Seems the RT staff are now too busy putting out fires than actually trying to really indulge the fans. For example, the website. The site has never been updated with a new look, EVER. That alone would give them more traffic. Then, as they can't do Shadow Rising, or anything of major importance, and they don't have enough interest in the U.S. to print their comics in their own backyard, why not do an online version of shorts? Hahaha, now I sound like one of the disgruntled fans on rt.com. Truth is that I don't care anymore like I used to, but I had been making that suggestion back 5 or 6 years ago. They probably don't do it because someone other than Tommy suggested it first, like many other fans have as well.

[terry the lone wolf]

I want to thank Tom posting his script; it was a neat holiday gift. I'm about halfway through Tom's script and I'm liking it to. I also noticed similarities with Shadow Chronicles but also the differences. The battle at Haydon IV was nice touch and he brought back the usage of 2 pilots for the Alpha/Beta combination. I like the character interaction but it could've used more mecha action. I liked Karen Penn as CAG for the Veritech pilots; I thought it was strange to have her as communications officer in Prelude to Shadow Chronicles and maybe a little demeaning. Her training Marcus, Aurora, & Wolf JR. was a nice ode to Sentinels where Max Sterling trained her.

Edited December 26, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[Roy Focker]

Maybe Robotech needs another Swimsuit pictorial comic?

[HappyPenguins]

Maybe Robotech needs another Swimsuit pictorial comic?

noooooo anything but THAT

[Zor Primus]

Back in late 2001, right after 9/11, on my own and without being asked, I wrote a script that I felt would be true to Robotech and be a springboard for telling the story of the search for Rick Hunter. This was before anyone else had written a script.

ROBOTECH : Shadow Force by Thomas J. Bateman

None of this script was used in RTSC, as you will notice that this is VERY different from anything resembling RTSC.

Give it a read and let me know what you think.

Merry Christmas, RT fans.

Nice read Tom! Good work on keeping continuity where it should have been. My main beef with RTSC was the re-play of the last battle against the Invid. Felt it wasted time that should have been spent with new story telling.

Also using Aurora instead of Maia made more sense. LOVED how you brought in another member of the 15th ATAC! You can never have enough Southern Cross

Was curious to know in your mind's eye what the SDF-9 looked like? Tirolean influenced like the original SDF-3 or something more akin to the REF ships?

[Tom Bateman]

I also noticed similarities with Shadow Chronicles but also the differences. The battle at Haydon IV was nice touch and he brought back the usage of 2 pilots for the Alpha/Beta combination. I like the character interaction but it could've used more mecha action. I liked Karen Penn as CAG for the Veritech pilots; I thought it was strange to have her as communications officer in Prelude to Shadow Chronicles and maybe a little demeaning. Her training Marcus, Aurora, & Wolf JR. was a nice ode to Sentinels where Max Sterling trained her.

The character stuff was really important to establish, in my mind. But maybe it's my appreciation for Legend of the Galactic Heroes, which some would say is very talky, coming through. In the first episode of anything, you have to deal with exposition, so that's always a challenge. I tried to keep it to a minimum.

Nice read Tom! Good work on keeping continuity where it should have been. My main beef with RTSC was the re-play of the last battle against the Invid. Felt it wasted time that should have been spent with new story telling.

Also using Aurora instead of Maia made more sense. LOVED how you brought in another member of the 15th ATAC! You can never have enough Southern Cross

Was curious to know in your mind's eye what the SDF-9 looked like? Tirolean influenced like the original SDF-3 or something more akin to the REF ships?

I thought repeating elements of the last two episodes of Robotech was very repetitive and unnecessary. I think it ended up confusing things for new audiences. One of the many arguments that I did not win.

Don't know what Tommy's obsession with the name "Maia" was, but he just had to have her name as Maia. I think Angelo and Aurora would have had an interesting relationship.

In my mind, the SDF-9 was the "Archangel" not Ark Angel, which I think is a dumb name (BTW, I always thought it should be VARITECH, not VERITECH too) The SDF-9 would have looked mean, fast and sleek, a quick strike attack warship, definitely not the big blocky thing we saw in RTSC.

[Legioss]

Any relation to Maia from Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years (by Harmony Gold)?

[HappyPenguins]

The Shadow Chronicles would've been better with zombies..........anyone up for a re-write?

[Robelwell202]

The Shadow Chronicles would've been better with zombies..........anyone up for a re-write?

You mean cameo appearances by the production staff? Odd, but not unheard of...

[Tom Bateman]

The Shadow Chronicles would've been better with zombies..........anyone up for a re-write?

Everything is better with zombies

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Everything is better with zombies

Zombies and ninjas...or,or wait for it.....Ninja Zombies!!!!

Edited December 29, 2010 by SkullLeaderVF-X

[areaseven]

You mean cameo appearances by the production staff? Odd, but not unheard of...

Hey watch it! That's an insult to zombies.

Suddenly, I can imagine a RT promo video in the same style as the GEICO cavemen commercials...

Announcer: "Casting Robotech is so easy, a zombie can do it."

Zombie: "What?!? NOT COOL!!!"

[BeyondTheGrave]

Hey watch it! That's an insult to zombies.

Suddenly, I can imagine a RT promo video in the same style as the GEICO cavemen commercials...

Announcer: "Casting Robotech is so easy, a zombie can do it."

Zombie: "What?!? NOT COOL!!!"

Which will then spawn a terrible spin-off series that no one wants.

Edited December 30, 2010 by BeyondTheGrave

[Jasonc]

The sad thing, is that those ideas are better than what Robotech has become, and the story more exciting than Shadow Chronicles. Stop giving them ideas They are paying people over there good money, so they should be at a desk working hard to come up with riveting stuff, stuff that makes the fans and community excited, not question why some of the staff there are even employed.

[HappyPenguins]

The sad thing, is that those ideas are better than what Robotech has become, and the story more exciting than Shadow Chronicles. Stop giving them ideas They are paying people over there good money, so they should be at a desk working hard to come up with riveting stuff, stuff that makes the fans and community excited, not question why some of the staff there are even employed.

giving them ideas? pffft I'd love to see them use this one

[Keith]

I was recently hitting my DVR backlog of Conan episodes, and saw this bit. I can't help but think given Pierre Bernanrds history of fandom, that this is a knock at Steve Yune. And if so, well done sir, well done

http://www.tbs.com/v...ef=sharethisUrl

Edited January 1, 2011 by Keith

[taksraven]

i agree, who needs creativity when you can slap "robotech" on it and swim in fanboy money?

Both "Stars Trek and Wars" franchises have been surviving quite well using the same mentality for decades.....

Taksraven

[Jasonc]

I was recently hitting my DVR backlog of Conan episodes, and saw this bit. I can't help but think given Pierre Bernanrds history of fandom, that this is a knock at Steve Yune. And if so, well done sir, well done

http://www.tbs.com/v...ef=sharethisUrl

HG did show that clip of him talking about robotech for like 5 years, so we know he's an old Robotech fan. I'm sure he's probably aware of the "Shadow Boobs" issue. That was a great clip, and I LMAO when I saw it. Thanks for sharing. That's him probably playing on Tommy's art.

[JB0]

Both "Stars Trek and Wars" franchises have been surviving quite well using the same mentality for decades.....

Taksraven

Actually, Trek gradually imploded under the weight of apathetic and ignorant executive producers until Paramount fired their asses after Enterprise.

No one can explain why they weren't fired after(or DURING) Voyager.

[Robelwell202]

Actually, Trek gradually imploded under the weight of apathetic and ignorant executive producers until Paramount fired their asses after Enterprise.

No one can explain why they weren't fired after(or DURING) Voyager.

Because 'Voyager' had enough fans that were hot for 7of9, so it was still making a minimal positive contribution. At least, that's all I can think of.

[Seto Kaiba]

Actually, Trek gradually imploded under the weight of apathetic and ignorant executive producers until Paramount fired their asses after Enterprise.

No one can explain why they weren't fired after(or DURING) Voyager.

Based on what I've heard and read about that, I can only assume it's because they were just bowing to the will of the network. They kept the show chugging along long enough that they were able to wrap it up gracefully enough, even though doing so meant an incredibly unsubtle cast change for T&A value.

Now Robotech's creative staff... how those twits stayed employed is a mystery for the ages.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Now Robotech's creative staff... how those twits stayed employed is a mystery for the ages.

Prenup?

Actually, Trek gradually imploded under the weight of apathetic and ignorant executive producers until Paramount fired their asses after Enterprise.

No one can explain why they weren't fired after(or DURING) Voyager.

What Robwell said. In my opinion it may have been the changing of Sci Fi network (scifi,syfy) from a premium package network to a basic cable network.

Edited January 3, 2011 by BeyondTheGrave

[Dynaman]

What Robwell said. In my opinion it may have been the changing of Sci Fi network (scifi,syfy) from a premium package network to a basic cable network.

The Star Trek franchise had nothing to do with the syfy network though, except in reruns.

[Zor Primus]

Actually, Trek gradually imploded under the weight of apathetic and ignorant executive producers until Paramount fired their asses after Enterprise.

No one can explain why they weren't fired after(or DURING) Voyager.

Trek jumped the shark when it became Time Travel Trek...it was like watching the Terminator with spaceships...Enterprise crashed and burned when they introduced the Borg.

[HappyPenguins]

The Star Trek franchise had nothing to do with the syfy network though, except in reruns.

no but changing the network name to "syfy" was one of the most retarded ideas ever.....

oh and also putting effing wrestling on the network too! I wasn't aware that qualified as science fiction damn I'm really behind these days....

anyways, yes a bunch of these shows jumped the shark but could have been saved with zombies

I always found Star Trek to be too goofy any ways......all the silly beeping in the enterprise reminded me of McDonalds and the beeping when the fries are done

also I propose TSC could be improved with some simple editing..... like Ahnold soundboard clip voice overs accompanied by a fart soundboard too

I used to do prank calls with such sound boards back in teh day hehe.

[BeyondTheGrave]

The Star Trek franchise had nothing to do with the syfy network though, except in reruns.

More so in the way that more content was available to watch and not just star trek.