HG and Robotech Debates

[Atharun]

But wouldn't the continued sale of Macross Plus from Manga be grounds for HG to send a C&D? And if they did not act on it after the Copyright of 2001/2002, would it be grounds for whomever wished to license Macross material to use as a precedent? I would imagine so because even recently I have seen the Macross Plus box set on local store shelves. That added with the fact that there has been no "marketable progress" (for lack of a better term) from said copyright over the span of X years, another company could argue for the abandonment of the COpyright and susequent re-allocation. in this case I'd imagine someone such as Funimation or Bandai Ent.U.S.A.

These are just the way I imagine things though, I am sure it is much more complicated but if there is a loophole I would love some company to pursue it.

On a seperate note, I posted on Rt.com and pretty much called Kevin out, see how he responds.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=2075615&forumid=31&pagenumber=14

Edited December 19, 2010 by Richardmvela

[Keith]

But wouldn't the continued sale of Macross Plus from Manga be grounds for HG to send a C&D? And if they did not act on it after the Copyright of 2001/2002, would it be grounds for whomever wished to license Macross material to use as a precedent? I would imagine so because even recently I have seen the Macross Plus box set on local store shelves. That added with the fact that there has been no "marketable progress" (for lack of a better term) from said copyright over the span of X years, another company could argue for the abandonment of the COpyright and susequent re-allocation. in this case I'd imagine someone such as Funimation or Bandai Ent.U.S.A.

These are just the way I imagine things though, I am sure it is much more complicated but if there is a loophole I would love some company to pursue it.

On a seperate note, I posted on Rt.com and pretty much called Kevin out, see how he responds.

http://www.robotech....1&pagenumber=14

Manga handles digital distribution for Robotech, so obviously some back-alley deal was made there. As for RT.com, good luck with that. I got banned for making lively on topic conversation that was actually productive and got fans interested.

[Atharun]

if manga's handling distribution for Robotech and has their own Macross titles, what are the odds they push to release more Macross here stateside.

[Legioss]

Is there a link to the announcement that Big West is currently not interested in the North American market for Macross? I thought I read somewhere that was the case. Did I already ask this?

Also a link to "Macross Frontier is the last Macross planned" if there is any truth to that which there probably isn't, but I wanted to check since some people seem to think it was fact.

[Keith]

I'm honestly still confused on how Tommy got hired at HG in the first place. Did they initially bring him on for concept art? Did having something resembling an artist in house just completely blow the Agrama's minds? "Hey, you can draw, we have a cartoon series, can you draw us new cartoons?!" This is how I imagine their thinking works at least.

I'm really anxoius to see what happens when HG burns through their initial movie licensing money, since they're obviously not going to get any more. Given our current economy, I wonder how well their realestate deals are holding up as well. At this point, aside from the various benefits Macross fans would have, the best thing that could happen for the remaining robotech fan community, would be for HG to go under. At least then they'd be able to do their fanmade projects without the crazy HG legal action threats.

[Seto Kaiba]

Also a link to "Macross Frontier is the last Macross planned" if there is any truth to that which there probably isn't, but I wanted to check since some people seem to think it was fact.

There's no link to give, because it's one of those "facts" Robotech die-hards made up on the spot in an effort to defend Robotech's lack of forward motion. Rhade is the one who started running off at the mouth about it, and he flat-out refuses to produce the source he claims to have gotten the information from. If such a statement had been made, trust me, you would NOT need to ask around for the source... it'd be a huge news topic here.

[Zor Primus]

On a seperate note, I posted on Rt.com and pretty much called Kevin out, see how he responds.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=2075615&forumid=31&pagenumber=14

Interesting reply...better mark your calenders boys and girls, we've got official confirmation something wicked this way comes in 2011!

[ps99042]

we've got official confirmation something wicked this way comes in 2011!

You mean the documentary? Not too excited about that and he only said that the new animated sidequel will be completed in 2011

[azrael]

...what are the odds they push to release more Macross here stateside.

As I mentioned in my last post to you, there are issues with later Macross animated productions, that do not involve HG, which make them very difficult to license.

You mean the documentary? Not too excited about that and he only said that the new animated sidequel will be completed in 2011

In other words....nothing new that we haven't heard about. Back to sleep....

[Jasonc]

But wouldn't the continued sale of Macross Plus from Manga be grounds for HG to send a C&D? And if they did not act on it after the Copyright of 2001/2002, would it be grounds for whomever wished to license Macross material to use as a precedent? I would imagine so because even recently I have seen the Macross Plus box set on local store shelves. That added with the fact that there has been no "marketable progress" (for lack of a better term) from said copyright over the span of X years, another company could argue for the abandonment of the COpyright and susequent re-allocation. in this case I'd imagine someone such as Funimation or Bandai Ent.U.S.A.

These are just the way I imagine things though, I am sure it is much more complicated but if there is a loophole I would love some company to pursue it.

On a seperate note, I posted on Rt.com and pretty much called Kevin out, see how he responds.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=2075615&forumid=31&pagenumber=14

To expect any HG member to really say that their product is wavering, that the LAM may or maynot get made, they're never gonna say that. That's why you can't believe what they say all the time. To find the truth in the "health" of the franchise, you only need look around and come to your own conclusion. Comics not selling in U.S., no forward progress of the LAM seen or heard, Shadow Rising on hold, etc, etc. Oh, and on "3 projects being worked on at the same time"...see below...

You mean the documentary? Not too excited about that and he only said that the new animated sidequel will be completed in 2011

This, I find funny. They supposedly have 3 projects being worked on at the same time. The truth is, LAM is still in the stage of deciding if they're gonna make it or not. Shadow Rising is no go as of now, even though they kepts saying that it was still being worked on. They've pretty much backed off on saying that. Then you have the 2011 animation, which is simply redubbing animation that's already made. A few of us got info that it was gonna be from Love Live Alive, so, that is a hit or miss. Then you have a "Robotech documentary", which is nothing really more than an extra on a DVD, and something that seemed to be more a documentary on Carl Macek. Now that they're calling it a Robotech documentary, it seems like it's gonna be more of a Robotech advertising tool, or probably still a DVD extra.

So really, as of now, that leaves the 2011 animation, which is only cut and paste work with new voices. I remember Matchbox doing their own cut and paste VHS tapes for the toys in a show they called Robotech Wars. I don't think it took them a year to put it together, but to call a project like that new animation is misleading. It'd be interesting if I were wrong about that, but again, we'll see.

[Seto Kaiba]

To expect any HG member to really say that their product is wavering, that the LAM may or may not get made, they're never gonna say that. That's why you can't believe what they say all the time. To find the truth in the "health" of the franchise, you only need look around and come to your own conclusion.

Hell, it should go without saying that you aren't going to get an honest answer about the health of the Robotech franchise from anyone on the Harmony Gold payroll... much less their head of marketing. The common business wisdom is that marketing is the use of fraud and deception to sell trash to idiots, and a marketeer who also has a history as a frothy-mouthed pro-Robotech fanatic is even less likely to tell it like it is. He'll never try to quantify Robotech's "success" because doing so would destroy the credibility of his claims that they're doing great.

This, I find funny. They supposedly have 3 projects being worked on at the same time. The truth is, LAM is still in the stage of deciding if they're gonna make it or not. Shadow Rising is no go as of now, even though they kepts saying that it was still being worked on. They've pretty much backed off on saying that. Then you have the 2011 animation, which is simply redubbing animation that's already made.

Even Tommy's been more upfront about the current situation with Robotech... at least he openly admitted that Shadow Rising was on hold while they waited for the LAM that might never get made to raise Robotech's value in the eyes of investors. It's McKeever's job to backpedal, to mince words, and to dissemble copiously. It's what they pay him for. Let's make no mistake, that "2011" project is the ONLY Robotech coming in the foreseeable future, and by all accounts it's going to be a bad joke.

[Atharun]

How certain are we that it will be a re-dub of LLA? One of the things that frustrates me most is that HG will tout how they have 3 works in developement but yet only produce prrof of one, the documentary which will most likely be a DVD add-on feature. Also didn;t HG do a fair or carnival recently talking about anime right before Carl died? if so i wouldn;t be surprised if the documentary was that filmed mixed with interviews.

[Seto Kaiba]

How certain are we that it will be a re-dub of LLA?

I'd love to know that myself... but Jasonc is a fairly well-connected guy, so I'd weight hearsay from him at a slightly higher level of reliability than I would anyone else who wasn't directly involved in the production.

One of the things that frustrates me most is that HG will tout how they have 3 works in developement but yet only produce prrof of one, the documentary which will most likely be a DVD add-on feature. Also didn;t HG do a fair or carnival recently talking about anime right before Carl died? if so i wouldn;t be surprised if the documentary was that filmed mixed with interviews.

Yeah, HG did a big tribute to Carl on the convention tour right after he died... and it wouldn't surprise me at all if what you predicted comes to pass.

[Jasonc]

How certain are we that it will be a re-dub of LLA? One of the things that frustrates me most is that HG will tout how they have 3 works in developement but yet only produce prrof of one, the documentary which will most likely be a DVD add-on feature. Also didn;t HG do a fair or carnival recently talking about anime right before Carl died? if so i wouldn;t be surprised if the documentary was that filmed mixed with interviews.

I can't say for certain, only go by what info has been given to me from credible sources. I have some confidence that the 2011 project will be done. If it's done in time or not, only time will tell, but I'm thinking they are gonna put this and the documentary on one DVD, if not, put it as an online product. I mean let's face it, who's gonna pay $20 for a one episode DVD. Now, add the show, and throw in a documentary, then you have added value to more Robotech fans.

[mecha2241]

Definitely going to pass on that project, I've no interest in this documentary or yet another re-dub/re-write of someone else's work, I mean talk about taking steps backwards. As horrendous as Shadow Chronicles was, both story and animationwise, at least they put some kind of (minimum) effort into it.

[Einherjar]

I can't say for certain, only go by what info has been given to me from credible sources. I have some confidence that the 2011 project will be done. If it's done in time or not, only time will tell, but I'm thinking they are gonna put this and the documentary on one DVD, if not, put it as an online product. I mean let's face it, who's gonna pay $20 for a one episode DVD. Now, add the show, and throw in a documentary, then you have added value to more Robotech fans.

It's been done oh so many times before.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Einherjar

[Atharun]

If the 2011 animated project is a re-dub of LLA, then the cell phone pic of Sera with the Invid Battle shield makes no sense. Then with a shrinking anime market here, I can't imagine many retailers carrying something like this as most only carry newer works except for DBZ.

Jason, do you know if Allen Letz leaving HG was related to the b.s. that went down mentioned by Tom earlier?

[Seto Kaiba]

Definitely going to pass on that project, I've no interest in this documentary or yet another re-dub/re-write of someone else's work, I mean talk about taking steps backwards.

Huh... if this latest Robotech project really is a dub of Love Live Alive, then I can only assume it's some kind of homage to all the other horrible creative decisions they've made in the last 25 years. Kind of a late "25th Anniversary Screw-Up Spectacular". I can't imagine another terribad rewrite would go over very well in this day in age...

If the 2011 animated project is a re-dub of LLA, then the cell phone pic of Sera with the Invid Battle shield makes no sense. Then with a shrinking anime market here, I can't imagine many retailers carrying something like this as most only carry newer works except for DBZ.

Granted, the promo art that Tommy was so mad about having leaked via cell phone wouldn't make much sense if the film were Love Live Alive. All the same, when has Harmony Gold ever let good business sense get in the way of jerking fans around and making a quick buck off of their nostalgia-blinded fans? It's entirely possible that Tommy's promo pic was something he did years ago for Shadow Chronicles and never got around to showing. He certainly didn't put much effort into designing a logo for the 25th anniversary...

[Tom Bateman]

Mr. Bateman your conflict with Tommy Yune sounds very close to what happened with Chris Claremont & Jim Lee over the direction of the X-Men. Long time X-writer Claremont left after three issues of the new series leaving Lee as co-plotter. In recent years Claremont has returned to the X-Men and even writes a X-Men serie that's supposed to be what would've happened if he stayed on the book.

Would you do something simlar if an opportunity arises to return to HG?

terry, I think the likelihood that of that happening is pretty slim, but in Hollywood, anything is possible, I guess. Stranger things have happened. It would certainly be a very interesting conversation. If HG is interested in making REAL money off of Robotech, instead of the nickel and dime revenues I suspect they are getting now, I would certainly be willing to talk with them about making a real future for Robotech.

Tommy Yune and his mismanagement, his decisions, have cost Harmony Gold MILLIONS... yes, you read that right, MILLIONS of dollars, and many, many missed opportunities. I guess it's like a girl staying with a bum boyfriend. Sometimes, you just get used to the relationship and don't think there's an alternative, so it's easier to just stay in the relationship than to try something different.

Until HG decides to reassess its relationship with Tommy, anything we talk about here is moot.

Every day he is there, another opportunity is missed, and another day is lost ...forever.

At this point, they might as well be burning the money in the fireplace than pay him.

That's just my opinion.

Oh, and call me Tom

p.s. Richard, Alan Letz left about two years before I did. His departure had nothing to do with mine. Oh, RTSC sold very well, from what I understand, though I left HG only a few months after it was released on DVD, so I was not privy to info from them. A few years later, I found out that the sales figures were not bad at all, certainly enough to warrant a sequel, in my opinion.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Tom Bateman

[areaseven]

Oh, RTSC sold very well, from what I understand, though I left HG only a few months after it was released on DVD, so I was not privy to info from them. A few years later, I found out that the sales figures were not bad at all, certainly enough to warrant a sequel, in my opinion.

That's because RT fans are the most gullible people in the world (though Twilight fans are close). They'll buy anything with the RT name stamped on it. Even toilet paper.

[Seto Kaiba]

[...] Even toilet paper.

Oh, now you've done it... just you watch, a year from now that'll be their next big merchandising innovation: Robotech toilet paper.

[JB0]

That's because RT fans are the most gullible people in the world (though Twilight fans are close). They'll buy anything with the RT name stamped on it. Even toilet paper.

You can't tell me with a straight face that you don't want to smear poop all over a nice big Robotech logo.

[areaseven]

You can't tell me with a straight face that you don't want to smear poop all over a nice big Robotech logo.

Who doesn't? Problem is that there isn't enough TP in the world to wipe Kevin McKeever.

[Zor Primus]

Oh, now you've done it... just you watch, a year from now that'll be their next big merchandising innovation: Robotech toilet paper.

Poll is already up at RT.com.

[Tom Bateman]

That's because RT fans are the most gullible people in the world (though Twilight fans are close). They'll buy anything with the RT name stamped on it. Even toilet paper.

I would really disagree with this statement. I don't think the average RT fan is any more or less discerning or selective than any Macross fan about the merchandise they purchase, they just lack some of the options that Macross fans do.

I think RT fans, certainly the ones I know, would really draw the line at toilet paper.

RT fans unhappy with merchandise simply lose interest and move on to other things. There is a limit to a brand name's value when it is not followed by a consistent stream of quality product.

For example, the Star Wars Prequels sold a ton of merchandise, but how much more millions of dollars of merchandise do you think they would have sold had the Prequels actually been "good"? Quality matters.

[TehPW]

Oh, now you've done it... just you watch, a year from now that'll be their next big merchandising innovation: Robotech toilet paper.

*sings* Robo-Teeech! To-whip-your-Bumm-Clean!

[Jasonc]

If the 2011 animated project is a re-dub of LLA, then the cell phone pic of Sera with the Invid Battle shield makes no sense. Then with a shrinking anime market here, I can't imagine many retailers carrying something like this as most only carry newer works except for DBZ.

Jason, do you know if Allen Letz leaving HG was related to the b.s. that went down mentioned by Tom earlier?

Here are some things to consider...

1)In most of Tommy's talks about the 2011 project, he doesn't really mention it as a movie, at least until people kept calling it that. Even then, he seemed very hesitant to call it a "movie", but more a "movie like movie" (whatever that means).

2)He mentions that the production and financing for it is on a much smaller scale than Shadow Chronicles. At first I thought this could be a moving comic or flash movie, but then I got word it was or part of it is LLA.

3)The image Tommy did correlating to the new production could be either a loose tie in to what the movie is about, like what many artist do with comic book covers. Sometimes the cover has little to do with what the content is inside. It can also be simply art to throw people off, and like some have speculated, art that was done awhile ago, and decided to put some use to it. Of course, it could also be directly what the story is, and be new animation. I'm not making the statements of what is as fact, but I'm gonna trust in it to some extent, and simply wait and see. If I'm wrong, it doesn't matter, if I'm right, still doesn't really matter. All speculation.

[Zor Primus]

3)The image Tommy did correlating to the new production could be either a loose tie in to what the movie is about, like what many artist do with comic book covers. Sometimes the cover has little to do with what the content is inside. It can also be simply art to throw people off, and like some have speculated, art that was done awhile ago, and decided to put some use to it. Of course, it could also be directly what the story is, and be new animation. I'm not making the statements of what is as fact, but I'm gonna trust in it to some extent, and simply wait and see. If I'm wrong, it doesn't matter, if I'm right, still doesn't really matter. All speculation.

How epic will the fail be if this is really going to be LLA...honestly I'd prefer a flash comic or even the RTTP (Robotech Toilet Paper) over a dub job on a work that is 25 years old and is also supposed to match the animation of SC which is 3 years old. How can anyone present LLA as something new with a straight face has lost touch with reality imo. Anyways we'll be beating this dead horse with a stick until the finished product comes out.

Tom, looks like you were the last fan to leave HG's building. Your comment about Tommy not even getting into convos about the actual show proves that to them its a job only. The small window for true fans to help the franchise closed and all thats left are boot lickers who wish they can have their name on an HG paycheck and would rather ban or silence critique then admit that all things RT is not perfect or as grand as it appears.

[Seto Kaiba]

I would really disagree with this statement. I don't think the average RT fan is any more or less discerning or selective than any Macross fan about the merchandise they purchase, they just lack some of the options that Macross fans do.

Eh... I think you're being overly generous. There were reportedly a fair few Robotech fans who were willing to return their Maia MPCs to be exchanged for the "fixed" version with even more manufacturing problems which came from the very same factory as the earlier defective version and which Harmony Gold promised that they wouldn't use. Knowingly purchasing a badly designed and poorly manufactured product just because it's the only one available is NOT the mark of a discerning consumer. If someone's putting out poor quality products, you're not supposed to buy them for shits and giggles. You're supposed to look elsewhere for someone who knows how to make a higher quality product.

I really wish the average Robotech fan was as discerning and intelligent as you want them to be. I really do. It would solve a LOT of Robotech's problems. The sad truth is that, based on my own experiences, you often give them far more credit than they deserve.

RT fans unhappy with merchandise simply lose interest and move on to other things. There is a limit to a brand name's value when it is not followed by a consistent stream of quality product.

Indeed... in the past year or so, I've seem a marked increase in the exodus of frustrated and betrayed fans looking for something of actual quality instead of more dreary Robotech-as-reimagined-by-Tommy-Yune mess coupled with empty promises.

[Robelwell202]

Okay... Seeing as I've forcibly withdrawn myself from the RT fanbase (with a good dose of help from MEMO and Mav), this thread'd been about the only news feed I've had on the subject. While I mostly read it for <AHEM>s and giggles, there's been one question that's grown from a passing query to a nagging, burning, gotta-know thing:

The practices exhibited by HG (Sloppy marketing practices, the ridiculous actions by the RT.com staffers and mods, and even the crappy toys)... are these the actions taken by somoene working with actual forthought, or does this just lead to the conclusion that these people have actually no idea what they're doing?

Or, to put it in simpler terms, are these guys doing all this on purpose, or are they simply certified idiots running amok?

[Dynaman]

Or, to put it in simpler terms, are these guys doing all this on purpose, or are they simply certified idiots running amok?

Take a realistic look at any other company and you will see the exact same behaviour. Look at any movie (with some really visible exceptions) and it will get hyped beyond belief - even if it is total garbage. A studio is NOT going to tell the truth about it's product - it exists to SELL the product and that does not happen if the studio says "it's not what we really want but it's all we have the budget for..."

[chrisk]

Wow. I never realized how tragic Harmony Gold's story was until I read Tom's story. The franchise was at a crossroad, and they chose a weak leader with a weak vision and the fans are paying for it. What a shame.

Isn't it funny that Memo may have been the one of the major causes why the franchise has "failed" in the last four years? He screwed friendship and family all in the name of being Tommy's #1 fan.

Yuck.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Oh, now you've done it... just you watch, a year from now that'll be their next big merchandising innovation: Robotech toilet paper.

I'm no longer a RT fan, but I'd buy the 24 pack if they made it, knowing HG, it'll be a rough 1 ply.

[Jasonc]

I'm no longer a RT fan, but I'd buy the 24 pack if they made it, knowing HG, it'll be a rough 1 ply.

So, if you wipe your @$$ with the TP, does that count as a custom, and will Robotech conventions later on have said customs contest?

[Keith]

There's no question whatsoever that the fanbase would buy TP, if for no other reason than rememberence of the cool Spaceballs Logo TP from the movie