HG and Robotech Debates

[Jasonc]

Ohhh my God!

That artwork just confirmed my worst suspicion! Before RTSC ever seen fruition back in early 2000s, a discussion took place at RDF-HQ about unfounded rumors that HG would like to shoe-horn Macross 7 (with significant edits, making Gamlin as central character as opposed to Basara) into new animated RT sequel. A scuttle-butt told me that atleast one pre-lim character design (Alex Romero?) closely resembled that of Gamlin.

Could it be that the original premise of RTSC is that of a bridging OAV to link both RT-verse & Macross 7?

As for me, seeing that transforming Ark-Angel with similarity (at least superficially) to Battle 7 seems to bear out the theories .... that HG may want to shoe-horn another Macross successful sequels into its stale RT stable .... atleast before the Big West vs Tatsunoko legal fiasco started.

Thank God the BW vs Tats case finally put a deathknell to HG's wish.

BTW JasonC .... do you have any other pre-production images from the same file to share with us?

I have to say that I don't think that was there intent. I know there was a season when they wanted to bring Macross stuff over here on there terms and get Macross 7 Trash translated, but as they don't know how to conduct business correctly, I think they offended BW with their offers and probably mucked them ever getting that chance. I think the person you talked to was either specifically talking out of their ass about that, or they really have no clue about much of anything.

To answer your last question, I don't know. It may all be in the RTSC art book. A concept hoover cyclone, color sketches of Ariola and J.U.G.S (Aerial and J.A.N.I.C.E.) concept sketches of Scott, Vince Grant, Space Sta Liberty, Robotech Factory, and some invid called the Gosamu, and of course the Gamma Fighter. I tried finding the file that I downloaded, but when I had issues with my computer before Windows 7, I lost everything. I printed out some of the stuff, so I think that's what I have that's relevant to that...That and nothing else. Most of what is mentioned I think is in the artbook.

[Seto Kaiba]

I have to say that I don't think that was there intent. I know there was a season when they wanted to bring Macross stuff over here on there terms and get Macross 7 Trash translated, but as they don't know how to conduct business correctly, I think they offended BW with their offers and probably mucked them ever getting that chance.

To be honest, ever since I first heard Tommy Yune's own (brief) account of how Harmony Gold came to Big West to talk about licensing for the rest of Macross and was turned away, I've always suspected that their chances of cooperating successfully with Big West were nixed long before they ever proposed it. After all, they did ignite a costly legal battle that raged for years between Big West and Tatsunoko over ownership of the original Macross series and the sequels. Considering the general sleaziness of Harmony Gold's business practices, I'm far more inclined to suspect that it was more an attempted Mafia-style shakedown than a negotiation... something along the lines of "If you want to distribute your product on our turf, you gotta give us a cut".

To answer your last question, I don't know. It may all be in the RTSC art book. A concept hoover cyclone, color sketches of Ariola and J.U.G.S (Aerial and J.A.N.I.C.E.) concept sketches of Scott, Vince Grant, Space Sta Liberty, Robotech Factory, and some invid called the Gosamu, and of course the Gamma Fighter.

Eh... some of it is, but a most of what you've listed isn't. The book does contain the color sketches and other concept art for the characters... on the other hand, there's no art for (or mention of) a hover cyclone concept, transforming Ark Angel, Robotech Factory, "Gosamu", or the Gamma Fighter. If you went solely by that book, you would expect that the designs for the Shadow Chronicles movie were shat into being and then endured only minimal revision before the final product.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[azrael]

Considering the general sleaziness of Harmony Gold's business practices, I'm far more inclined to suspect that it was more an attempted Mafia-style shakedown than a negotiation... something along the lines of "If you want to distribute your product on our turf, you gotta give us a cut".

HG would have to get a cut just like any other anime licensor, otherwise, no company out there would want to distribute anime in the US, period. You have to ask, how much of a cut but more importantly, would Tatsunoko get any of that money. If Tatsunoko gets any of that money, they would have a financial stake to the Macross-franchise, which they are not suppose to have beyond SDF Macross and whatever merchandise came out of DYRL?. While HG's actions may have instigated the legal action, the fight was solely between BW and Tatsunoko. If Tatsunoko were to get any money from the franchise beyond SDFM and DYRL? merchandise, that would probably be a the deal breaker. Getting money for something you bought and exploited is fine. But having any of that profit going to a 3rd party who wasn't involved at all and just sat on their asses to collect money? That ain't right.

I can't even see Ark Angel being a Battle 7 rip-off superficially. Like Jasonc said, it really looks like it's just a Mospeada design shoe-horned into a SDF-1 transformation.

[Lobizon]

"Gosamu" ( aka Invid Overlord ) http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/viewmecha.php?id=68

[Jasonc]

"Gosamu" ( aka Invid Overlord ) http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/mecha/viewmecha.php?id=68

That's it, but the page I got isn't in that horrible color, and the file size was a bit larger than what's shown. Otherwise, the same thing.

[Seto Kaiba]

HG would have to get a cut just like any other anime licensor, otherwise, no company out there would want to distribute anime in the US, period.

's not what I meant... I thought it was clear, but what I was talking about was the way Harmony Gold wants to profit from Macross licensing even if they're not the licensee via that trademark on the Macross name and logo in the US.

"Gosamu" ( aka Invid Overlord ) http://www.robotech....mecha.php?id=68

Oh... that. Yeah, that thing's in the book under "Invid Overlord", but it's only a sidebar piece with a single comic book panel and the line art shrunk down to postage stamp size.

[Zor Primus]

Found this as I was looking for a pic of the Macross with the Christmas lights on it. I don't see HG anywhere mentioned in this, anyone ever heard of this comic before?

Edited December 3, 2010 by Zor Primus

[Dynaman]

Found this as I was looking for a pic of the Macross with the Christmas lights on it. I don't see HG anywhere mentioned in this, anyone ever heard of this comic before?

Heard of it, but never saw it! This was licensed by the toy/model company that used the Robotech name to sell the models - this was before Robotech the series ever existed. (which reminds me, how did HG end up with the Robotech name - never mind, don't really want to know)

[Seto Kaiba]

Heard of it, but never saw it! This was licensed by the toy/model company that used the Robotech name to sell the models - this was before Robotech the series ever existed. (which reminds me, how did HG end up with the Robotech name - never mind, don't really want to know)

It was foisted on them when they partnered with Revell in order to support the series with Macross merchandise.

[Renato]

Found this as I was looking for a pic of the Macross with the Christmas lights on it. I don't see HG anywhere mentioned in this, anyone ever heard of this comic before?

Good find! Revell's Robotech line of kits included Dougram mecha, so I guess they pulled a "Shogun Warriors" and made this in the same style. Funny that it only lasted two issues.

It's always so fascinating to dig up these forgotten dark relics of pop culture history.

[Moly_Sigang]

So the S'landai's are like a combination of the Protodevilins and Haydonites. Imagine if they add that line in TSC. "The Awareness has foreseen, let us begin *dramatic pause* the SIPHONING".

Edited December 4, 2010 by Moly_Sigang

[Shaorin]

been reading through this thread in my spare time, and i'm nearly finished. all i can say is WOW.

it does indeed seem like HG and ROBOTECH are holding things back for the MACROSS franchise outside japan.

i mean, DYRL is one of the greatest Anime motion pictures ever made, and the first and only opportunity

i've ever had to see a proper subbed copy of it is by buying a bootleg DVD-R. thank god it played back

great on my 1998 PIONEER DV-09 DVD player. heaven knows, CD-R and DVD-R playback can be rather hit-and-miss

on older DVDPs such as my DV-09.

anyway, it was a revelation indeed to experience MACROSS; DYRL as it was meant to be seen, especially since

the first time i had ever seen the movie was on the godawful BEST Video VHS of the butchered TOHO english dub;

(( FOCKER: Hey, Hikaruuu!! HIKARU: A MAN!!!! ME: *Facepalm* ))

anyhow, my first exposure to MACROSS/ROBOTECH was in the late 80's, when a nephew of mine, gave me his (POORLY) finished

copy of the old 1/72 REVELL/CEJI ROBOTECH DEFENDERS "VEXAR" (1/72 IMAI variable VF-1S Focker Special)

i had little clue of what it was, other than a "transformer model" and, being the destructive, immature little brat

that i was at the time, i had it quite broken by the time i got it back home.

while that model did not last me long, it DID, however make a mark on my brain. i had always remembered it in the back of my head,

until sometime around 1993/1994ish, when me and my father stopped at a hobby shop, and i happened across this;

the moment i saw that, serious alarm bells went off in my head!! i KNEW i had seen it before! my father bought it

for me, and not long after, it dawned on me that it was the very same aircraft that i been given five or so years before!!

that single model kit started me down the path towards seeking out the PALLADIUM ROBOTECH RPG book one, and thence to the

double-episode FHE ROBOTECH VHS volumes that were available at my local SUNCOAST video for about $15.00 each. i was never able to

afford many volumes.

neither me nor my parents had much money at the time. the 1990's was something of a financial dark age for us, in fact.

as such being a MACROSS/ROBOTECH as well as Anime fan was a long, TOUGH haul for me indeed. still, my parents were fairly poor,

yet very generous with me, so while my fandom was forced to expand at a veritable snail's pace, at least it didn't have to stagnate.

my very first variable valkyrie toy was the BANDAI 1/65 Basara VF-19 FIRE VALKYRIE KAI. i got it for $49.95 at a comic shop,

and yes, it was a BANDAI ORIGINAL.

i put that hideous thing, the "CHRISTMAS VALKYRIE"

as i like to call it, through so many transformations that i pretty much wore it completely out. a year or so later, i returned to that shop

for the VF-17 STEALTH VALKYRIE. it too was $49.95, and a BANDAI ORIGINAL as well.

all throughout that time, however, i never forgot the venerable VF-1, and i continuously yearned for the 1/55 "chunky monkey" toy.

any variant would have done for me at the time, so long as it was a transformable VF-1.

i got my chance finally around 1999/2000, when i took my old collection of GI-JOEs into a collectible toy shop, and made a deal on a trade for a

TRANS FORMERS JETFIRE.

my first variable VF-1!! even if it wasn't technically a VF-1 at all!!!!

i was satisfied, until i was turned on to the YAMATOs...

my parents were making a good deal more money by then, so i was able to (foolishly) take part in the infamous 1/60 ver.1 VF-1. fortunately, i only ever

had the opportunity to waste money on the first in the series, the DYRL VF-1A Hikaru.

a couple years later, i was blessed with the 1/48 VF-1A Hikaru DYRL, and, even better still, the VF-1S Focker.

i figured that this was as good as a variable VF-1 replica would ever get, and my trusty VF-1S Focker was my faithful standby

throughout the remainder of the first decade of the 21st century...

THEN, the impossible happened. i learned of the 1/60 ver.II series. furthermore, i learned of them via finding out about the

1/60 ver.II version of, -you guessed it- the VF-1J HIKARU T.V.

OH. MY. GOD. is this FULL CIRCLE or what?!?! the VF-1 that started me down this path in the first place came AFTERBURNing

back into my life in a shiny new coat of paint that not only put every prior version of the VF-1 to total shame, IMO,

but was also as close to the perfect VF-1 envisioned in my mind's eye as can possibly be rendered in three dimensions.

there is now but one task left for me to complete my journey full circle; TO OBTAIN AN 1/72 HCM VF-1J HIKARU T.V.

it, and the YAMATO 1/60ver.II will be the beautiful bookends of my twenty year long infatuation with the VF-1 Valkyrie,

and i have a fellow MACROSS WORLDer to thank for giving me the opportunity to get a copy of the HCM, which i am aiming to

afford in january 2011.

it's been a HELL of a ride for me, but BOY was it ever worth it. and who do i have to thank for it all in the end?

not HARMONY GOLD, not ROBOTECH, not the man in the moon, only SDF MACROSS.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Shaorin

[terry the lone wolf]

Found this as I was looking for a pic of the Macross with the Christmas lights on it. I don't see HG anywhere mentioned in this, anyone ever heard of this comic before?

Heard of it; I have the 1st issue. This is what I know: Revell licenced their Robotech models to DC Comics for a three issue series but at the same time Harmony Gold was creating the series that we would be come to know as Robotech. Revell found out that HG's cartoon would feature the same models they licenced from the Japanese. A deal was struck between HG & Revell for HG to remame their series Robotech (so Revell would have a televised vehicle to sell their toys like the Transformers) then Carl Macek made it possible for Pennsylvania comic book company Comico to acquire the exclusive rights to produce RT comics. So DC had to quickly wrap up their 3 issue series into 2 so as to fulfill their license. That's why in the editor's note he explained why their mini-series was coming to an abrupt end.

[rotorhead]

Found this as I was looking for a pic of the Macross with the Christmas lights on it. I don't see HG anywhere mentioned in this, anyone ever heard of this comic before?

Hey, I had that issue! And boy, the review on that site just really didn't do it justice. It was FAR worse than they made it out to be. How much suck can one comic pack between 2 (count 'em, 2!) fan-diddly-dangly covers? Wellll.... quite a bit, it would seem! It was so bad, that even as a child that consumed EVERYTHING comic book related, I still thought it was awful. I mean, c'mon... "Richie Rich" had better writing standards than these guys! But I kept it for years, and it may even be floating (froating?) around the attic somewhere, Kool-Aidtm stains and all. I can't believe how many times I re-read it... or rather re-looked-at-the-cool-looking-mecha-whilst-ignoring-godawful-story. Now, I'm just gonna have to look for it, so I can frame and hang the worst lump of... brightly colored paper that I've read. Zor Primus, I owe ya for the trip down memory lane!

[Jasonc]

Hey, I had that issue! And boy, the review on that site just really didn't do it justice. It was FAR worse than they made it out to be. How much suck can one comic pack between 2 (count 'em, 2!) fan-diddly-dangly covers? Wellll.... quite a bit, it would seem! It was so bad, that even as a child that consumed EVERYTHING comic book related, I still thought it was awful. I mean, c'mon... "Richie Rich" had better writing standards than these guys! But I kept it for years, and it may even be floating (froating?) around the attic somewhere, Kool-Aidtm stains and all. I can't believe how many times I re-read it... or rather re-looked-at-the-cool-looking-mecha-whilst-ignoring-godawful-story. Now, I'm just gonna have to look for it, so I can frame and hang the worst lump of... brightly colored paper that I've read. Zor Primus, I owe ya for the trip down memory lane!

That's funny, and almost my same story. I still have both of them in a comic archive baggy and backboard (as I did that with all of them way back when. I think I read the first one, and half of the second one, as I just got busy with other comics and their stories later on. The only reason I bought the comic in the first place was that I had some of the model kits, and was "learning" how to build them. Good times.

[Robelwell202]

Oh, the shame of an uninformed childhood. I had these comics, as well, and I was completely ignorant of the whole story behind them. UGH!!

Well, on the bright side, I still like the mecha, although not in that particular disgrace of a story, and in a weird, twisted way, it did bring me to the glory of Macross.

And I still want a figure/model of the Ironfoot (Gartan, in the RT-Def model series).

[Zor Primus]

Heard of it; I have the 1st issue. This is what I know: Revell licenced their Robotech models to DC Comics for a three issue series but at the same time Harmony Gold was creating the series that we would be come to know as Robotech. Revell found out that HG's cartoon would feature the same models they licenced from the Japanese. A deal was struck between HG & Revell for HG to remame their series Robotech (so Revell would have a televised vehicle to sell their toys like the Transformers) then Carl Macek made it possible for Pennsylvania comic book company Comico to acquire the exclusive rights to produce RT comics. So DC had to quickly wrap up their 3 issue series into 2 so as to fulfill their license. That's why in the editor's note he explained why their mini-series was coming to an abrupt end.

Wonder what would have happened if DC stayed involved...then maybe we'd have a DC Films LAM?

[terry the lone wolf]

DC didn't have a "good leg to stand on" as they were licensing the RT property and didn't own it. The property was changing hands very quickly so they decided to kill the series but give the readers an ending. At least it was a double sized issue; more bang for your buck.

[Jasonc]

DC didn't have a "good leg to stand on" as they were licensing the RT property and didn't own it. The property was changing hands very quickly so they decided to kill the series but give the readers an ending. At least it was a double sized issue; more bang for your buck.

I didn't get much "bang" from that thing at all, LOL. But oh well. Comics were inexpensive back then, not $4-$5 like some are now. I remember finding change around the house as a kid,or my mom giving me a few dollars, and being able to run to Thrifty Drug store to buy the Comico comics. I think they were like $1.25 or something like that. Those, along with baseball cards. Once those ended, there were all the spin-off comics that came later. Still, I look back at those times, and think that Robotech had more going on then, than they do now. Robotech wasn't even being aired anymore, either, and there was no internet like it is now (obviously). For some reason, this topic within this thread makes me wanna pull out the comics and thumb through them. Some were crappy, some were pretty good and promising.

[terry the lone wolf]

I think those Comico books were $1.50; they were little more expensive than the Marvel & DC comics that were going for $0.75 back then. The art work was a inferior though I did like Mike Leeke's art in the Macross Saga and Neil Vokes for the Masters books. Buying those RT comics always was a little special for me. That and buying imported Action Force comics the British version of G.I.Joe from Marvel U.K. I was in 80's heaven.

[Einherjar]

I can't even see Ark Angel being a Battle 7 rip-off superficially. Like Jasonc said, it really looks like it's just a Mospeada design shoe-horned into a SDF-1 transformation.

All I can say is that just because someone watched Robotech, and maybe Transformers, a bunch of times does not make them an expert in designing ships and such that should realistically transform.

And that is why you don't just hire anyone who can draw to keep up the illusion that a franchise has any kind of consistency when it never did.

[Seto Kaiba]

[...] And that is why you don't just hire anyone who can draw to keep up the illusion that a franchise has any kind of consistency when it never did.

Eh... mind you, it's not like Harmony Gold hired just anyone who put in for the post of Creative Director. Tommy might be a self-righteous hack on an epic ego trip, but he's not completely without credentials. He's supposedly from a good art school, though admittedly that's no guarantee of talent. He also had prior experience in (badly) imitating a manga aesthetic. The biggest problem with making Tommy the creative director is that he has pretty much no experience with mecha and SF. Prior to getting involved in Robotech, his one specialization was making cheesecake-heavy action comics. That's not exactly an ideal skill set to have when your task is to try to salvage a terminally-mismanaged mecha/SF franchise that only ever met with lukewarm success after its inept "creator" spent the better part of 15 years finding new and interesting ways to run it into the ground.

Tommy's no mechanical designer, and he's certainly no writer... but that he's actually managed to do what his predecessor couldn't and overcome incompetence and a crippling lack of originality to squeeze out a sequel is oddly impressive...

[Jasonc]

I heard that he didn't even graduate from that art school. I know it's not a place to judge someone's art, but that's what I heard. Haven't really tried or cared to verify that. And like I've said before, I don't think Tommy is a bad artist, just not a great character artist, and a very bad story writer. I noticed on robotechx . com, they are having a discussion of where I got the pic from, and since I don't visit that site all that often, let me tell you guys, along with those over there who are coming over here to read, No, I didn't get that art from Tom. Tom did fill me in to a point on some stuff regarding Robotech, and got to see some cool stuff I would never have been able to see otherwise, but Tommy's artwork was something that just wasn't around. I do find it funny that Tommy's best friend is already pointing the finger, and it wasn't even a big deal. Somehow I feel the civility of this unimportant issue is going to go out the window, not of my doing.

[Seto Kaiba]

I heard that he didn't even graduate from that art school. I know it's not a place to judge someone's art, but that's what I heard. Haven't really tried or cared to verify that.

Huh... if that were true, I'm not sure if I would have a good laugh at his expense or just shake my head at the folly of Harmony Gold's staffing decisions. Since he kept getting work, I'm inclined to suspect that he did in fact graduate. I can't see DC putting a dropout to work on one of their flagship titles, however briefly.

And like I've said before, I don't think Tommy is a bad artist, just not a great character artist, and a very bad story writer.

He's no mechanical designer... but if he can be said to excel at anything, it's drawing cheesecake. If he'd stuck with his draft designs, the Shadow Chronicles movie might have only been a profound disappointment instead of an embarrassment to Robotech and Mospeada fans alike. I won't even talk about his writing "skills", since that'll lead to a tirade that'll make The Lord of the Rings look like a short story. The flat-out astonishing part is that in terms of his success rate, he's a marked improvement over Carl Macek.

I noticed on robotechx . com, they are having a discussion of where I got the pic from, [...] I do find it funny that Tommy's best friend is already pointing the finger, and it wasn't even a big deal. Somehow I feel the civility of this unimportant issue is going to go out the window, not of my doing.

Oh, of course... the various boot-lickers, toadies, and assorted hangers-on who comprise what remains of the "hardcore" Robotech fanbase are always keen to find conspiracies in anything that makes Tommy look bad. I'm not surprised in the least that Tom's name has cropped up there... nor would I be surprised if my own showed up as well. It's best just to ignore them, doing anything else will only egg them on to greater heights of idiotic behavior as they attempt to defend a failed SF franchise most of the world stopped caring about back in 1986.

Well... that's not entirely fair either. Doing nothing at all will also egg them on to greater heights of idiotic behavior, because some of them are stupid enough to believe someone actually cares what they think, despite all evidence to the contrary. The upshot of ignoring them is, I guess, that it will egg fewer idiots on.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Jasonc]

Huh... if that were true, I'm not sure if I would have a good laugh at his expense or just shake my head at the folly of Harmony Gold's staffing decisions. Since he kept getting work, I'm inclined to suspect that he did in fact graduate. I can't see DC putting a dropout to work on one of their flagship titles, however briefly.

He's no mechanical designer... but if he can be said to excel at anything, it's drawing cheesecake. If he'd stuck with his draft designs, the Shadow Chronicles movie might have only been a profound disappointment instead of an embarrassment to Robotech and Mospeada fans alike. I won't even talk about his writing "skills", since that'll lead to a tirade that'll make The Lord of the Rings look like a short story. The flat-out astonishing part is that in terms of his success rate, he's a marked improvement over Carl Macek.

Oh, of course... the various boot-lickers, toadies, and assorted hangers-on who comprise what remains of the "hardcore" Robotech fanbase are always keen to find conspiracies in anything that makes Tommy look bad. I'm not surprised in the least that Tom's name has cropped up there... nor would I be surprised if my own showed up as well. It's best just to ignore them, doing anything else will only egg them on to greater heights of idiotic behavior as they attempt to defend a failed SF franchise most of the world stopped caring about back in 1986.

Well... that's not entirely fair either. Doing nothing at all will also egg them on to greater heights of idiotic behavior, because some of them are stupid enough to believe someone actually cares what they think, despite all evidence to the contrary. The upshot of ignoring them is, I guess, that it will egg fewer idiots on.

I'm not worried about what they'll say or what they think, but believe it or not, I'm trying to be respectful of those guys to the extent that I've let a couple of them get away with blatant lies because I don't want to have them to, for what would be an obvious reason, get cut off from what they love. But my patience does have a limit, and it seems that a couple of them have forgotten past events.

[Jasonc]

Not that anyone cares too much about this, but me putting up that pic has raised a big discussion here... http://www.robotechx.com/forums/5-robotech-shadow-chronicles/13993-official-artwork-of-ark-angel-by-tommy.html?limit=10&start=20#14051 I thought it was kinda interesting, cause they're already pointing fingers at Tom, at least some are. Had Tom given these to me, I wouldn't have put them up anywhere, not that it really matters anymore, but I've already received a message from one of their board members who asked me about the story behind the picture, mainly, how I got it and who gave it to me. From what it seems, he was pretty shocked to find out who it was. All this just for showing an old, unimportant piece of concept art. BTW, I'm looking for the other pics, but can't seem to find them. I've got several other piles of paper to look through, so if I find the other artwork Tommy's fan friend gave me, I'll post those up as well....*Waves to Tommy's friend.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Jasonc

[Zor Primus]

Interesting discussion, my new word for the day is going to be LEAKS...

[Jasonc]

Interesting discussion, my new word for the day is going to be LEAKS...

Hahaha, yeah, what the hell was wiki leaks in regards to me putting up a picture? I mean honestly, who really gives a $h!t about the pic? They're more concerned with tryig to develop a conspiracy about it. Out of decency, I've been avoiding spreading it out who actually gave it to me, and I'm sure the person has since forgot they did, but if this starts to get out of hand, I might have to put it to rest and just let it out. I don't have any loyalty to the one who gave these to me. LOL, This all has been a big joke,,, but with today off, I did find the additional pics and will put them up later tonight or tomorrow morning.

[Seto Kaiba]

Interesting discussion, my new word for the day is going to be LEAKS...

Ha... yeah, I'm kind of surprised that the Robotech lunatic fringe is getting this worked up over a single piece of concept art. I'm not surprised in the least that certain individuals are rushing to lay the blame on Tom Bateman for "leaking" it though. They've never been shy about trying to demonize anyone who criticizes Tommy Yune or his handling of Robotech in the most ridiculous ways... like claiming that all the people who took issue with the blatant lies those same people were telling about the Macross legal issues were a sinister army Tom and I had assembled to destroy Robotech from within, or that I use my mysterious influence to clout Harmony Gold's legal department into shutting down Robotech fan projects for fun.

Hahaha, yeah, what the hell was wiki leaks in regards to me putting up a picture? I mean honestly, who really gives a $h!t about the pic?

Clearly they do... though if you put it in perspective, it's not exactly hard to see why they're so worked up over this. Not to put too fine a point on it, but having you "leak" this one piece of rejected concept art is the only bit of actual production news Robotech fans have had since early 2007. Even though it's a rejected concept for an already-released movie, it's still something new and tangible that the fanbase hasn't seen before... and that's BIG NEWS for them. To us it might seem trivial, but we're spoiled by having high-quality Macross shows coming out on a semi-regular basis, accompanied by many detail-rich publications and myriad products. To them, your "leaked" concept art is literally the first new conversation topic they've had in years. Unlike the consistent and empty assurances that "we're working on it" and that "great things are happening, but we can't talk about it", this rejected Ark Angel concept piece is something tangible that proves that Harmony Gold was actually trying to do something with Robotech in the not-too-distant past.

They're more concerned with tryig to develop a conspiracy about it.

Well, yeah... that's what guys like MEMO do. If something makes Tommy and/or his version of Robotech look bad or otherwise upsets Tommy, you can bet they'll be looking for someone to blame. Particularly on RT.com, vocal Robotech fans have a bit of a persecution complex... they're determined to see any implicit or explicit criticism of Robotech as an attack on them and the fanbase as a whole by Macross fans... often regardless of whether the person making the criticism is a Macross fan or has even seen Macross.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Keith]

Clearly they do... though if you put it in perspective, it's not exactly hard to see why they're so worked up over this. Not to put too fine a point on it, but having you "leak" this one piece of rejected concept art is the only bit of actual production news Robotech fans have had since early 2007.

And it winds up in the hands of "Macross Purist's" :::MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA:::

Delicious....at least it would be if it were anything of any remote interest whatsoever...

[Seto Kaiba]

And it winds up in the hands of "Macross Purist's" :::MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA:::

Ironic, isn't it? The one website out there where people are talking about real Robotech news instead of the pet theories of fanatical fanboys and the Harmony Gold company line is a Macross fansite where Robotech is basically persona non grata outside of a single thread.

Delicious....at least it would be if it were anything of any remote interest whatsoever...

Oh, come on... if the idiots at Harmony Gold were actually capable of making an interesting Robotech show, they wouldn't be in the mess they've been in since 1986. It's just not fair to mark them to the same standards you'd use for a competent studio staffed by professionals.

[Keith]

Here is what I truly do not understand.

-HG's profit apparently comes from realestate.

-HG can't be making anything substancial off of the Robotech brand, and even if they were, it'd quickly be paid out to the leeches (producers) who are taking paychecks for doing absolutely nothing. Sure they must have gotten a cash winfall from the supposed movie license, but how much of that went towards paying off what they invested in Shadow Chronicles.

WHY DO THEY EVEN BOTHER, WHY NOT JUST STICK WITH REALESTATE!!!!!

[Seto Kaiba]

Here is what I truly do not understand. [...] HG's profit apparently comes from realestate.

Granted, we know that Harmony Gold's main sources of income are their film distribution business and the rental properties they own in California. If the rather anemic-looking catalog of licensed films on their official website is anything to go by, I doubt their other licensed titles are earning enough to keep the doors open. It's a safe bet their hideously overpriced rental properties are what's paying the bills.

-HG can't be making anything substancial off of the Robotech brand, and even if they were, it'd quickly be paid out to the leeches (producers) who are taking paychecks for doing absolutely nothing. Sure they must have gotten a cash winfall from the supposed movie license, but how much of that went towards paying off what they invested in Shadow Chronicles.

WHY DO THEY EVEN BOTHER, WHY NOT JUST STICK WITH REALESTATE!!!!!

Oh, it's not that hard to understand. You see, real estate is an unreliable industry with more ups and down than the knickers of an indecisive whore, so it certainly wouldn't hurt to have an extra source of income that you don't have to put in much work to maintain. Robotech is that low-effort, moderate-return source of income for them, as they peddle it to regional distributors in countries progressively further down the human development index. It's a small source of income, but one that requires almost no actual work on their part. All the dubbing work falls on the regional distributor, and the official Robotech merchandise is low-quality crap produced as cheaply as possible and then sold as "limited edition" goods at a substantial markup by a cheap fulfillment house.

They might not be making a lot of money doing that, but they're definitely bringing something in by cutting all those corners. If they're telling the truth (and that is a BIG "if"), then Shadow Chronicles turned a profit all on its lonesome... they didn't need the money from Maguire to make up for shortfall. This, of course, is much less of an impressive feat when you realize the movie was made on a budget confirmed by Tommy himself to be under US $1 million. Again, it's a lot of profit for not a lot of work, since they made the movie on a shoestring budget and priced it like a competently-made movie.

They're makin' money on Robotech... it's just that they're doing it by cutting corners and peddling garbage to their fanatic fanbase at obscene prices.

[Zor Primus]

Clearly they do... though if you put it in perspective, it's not exactly hard to see why they're so worked up over this. Not to put too fine a point on it, but having you "leak" this one piece of rejected concept art is the only bit of actual production news Robotech fans have had since early 2007. Even though it's a rejected concept for an already-released movie, it's still something new and tangible that the fanbase hasn't seen before... and that's BIG NEWS for them. To us it might seem trivial, but we're spoiled by having high-quality Macross shows coming out on a semi-regular basis, accompanied by many detail-rich publications and myriad products. To them, your "leaked" concept art is literally the first new conversation topic they've had in years. Unlike the consistent and empty assurances that "we're working on it" and that "great things are happening, but we can't talk about it", this rejected Ark Angel concept piece is something tangible that proves that Harmony Gold was actually trying to do something with Robotech in the not-too-distant past.

And that ladies and gentlemen should end any further debate +2

Anyone want to go out for a beer?

[Jasonc]

I'll take you up on that beer, and yeah, after thinking about why such a non-important image has been made into a big deal by some RT fans, is this really the only "big news"??? But, there is a more logical reason why someone is already pointing fingers and trying to focus all this on Tom, a guy who I respect, and someone I wouldn't put under the bus. It's because these images came from Memo, quite a number of years ago, when everyone used to trust one another. I never planned to say who this came from, because although I don't get along with him, there was no need to say who it came from. However, the stupid, childish fingerpointing was just getting too ridiculous, so while some of you probably already figured out where it came from, there it is for you guys to see. Maybe the finger pointing was because he thought I was going to do this, and he wanted to divert the attention away from himself, maybe he was just looking for another reason to villify someone who had nothing to do with it, and thinks is an easy target. Whatever the case is, I explained this to a few people, with other facts, and wether people wanna believe it or not, that's up to them. I'm just not gonna let someone just assume how things are and accuse someone without checking facts, or without regard to the truth, wether remembered or not.

Still, it shouldn't be a big deal. I mean, really. But you guys are right...to RT fans, maybe the images are a big deal because they have nothing going on. I'm not gonna spend anymore time with the drama of it, cause it's just not worth the time. I think the artwork is good, in most ways, so I put these up with no malice intent at all, and it shouldn't be. A lot of Tommy's artwork I'd defend as being good artwork, some of it I've seen has been awesome. The couple I put up are pretty good. So, they'll probably start wondering why I put them up here...well, when rtx.com was first in its infancy stage, I asked to be removed from the site. I already knew it was just gonna be an extension of Robotech.com, and I just didn't want to have anything to do with stuff like this. Since I chose not to conform to the stupidity of rt.com, I ended up asking to be perma banned over there. Thirdly, all overly involved RT fans do come to this thread specifically anyways, so this is probably one of the more viable threads to put it up on.

So far, I'm still debating if I should put up the other images of the hoover cyclone. I know many will just say "put them up." But doing it now would just seem to be out of spite for the drama that's unfolding in another site. I guess if people wanna see it, you can send me a pm, and I'll send it to you. At least people who actually care about it will have it. Sound fair?