HG and Robotech Debates

[Protoculture]

Seriously, didn't we concluded the legal thingamagigas HG/Tats/WB vs BW/Nue a looooonnnnggggg time ago?

I mean, why kicked the dead carcass that HG's still pimping? I mean, sure that HG may a tad unethical, but a US company leeching of a legit work of a Japanese studio who got duped by another Japanese anime distribution company through legit means in both countries .....

Damnnn, enough already.

Ohwaitaminute .... is this a RTwitchhuntingseasonburn'em'stake'em thingies in this time of the year?

Carry on ...

[Legioss]

Robotech fans insist the debate is still open. They come to Macross World and this thread was made to contain them to one thread. Macross fans want to know why HG is still standing in the way of Macross. They want to express their take on it, what it means to them, and how they feel about it. Maybe some are here to determine if recent non-legal actions, like Macross Frontier or Robotech live action movie, by the involved companies will change anything in reality or symbolically.

There's a dead link in your signature, Protoculture.

Edited October 24, 2010 by Legioss

[Seto Kaiba]

Seriously, didn't we concluded the legal thingamagigas HG/Tats/WB vs BW/Nue a looooonnnnggggg time ago?

Eh... to be honest, we came to the correct conclusion ages ago. For the most part, the actual progress that's been made on that front is the discovery of additional evidence that supports our conclusion. It might not be entirely necessary, but it's nice to make sure everything is well-documented.

I mean, why kicked the dead carcass that HG's still pimping? I mean, sure that HG may a tad unethical, but a US company leeching of a legit work of a Japanese studio who got duped by another Japanese anime distribution company through legit means in both countries .....

Damnnn, enough already.

Ohwaitaminute .... is this a RTwitchhuntingseasonburn'em'stake'em thingies in this time of the year?

To be honest... it's because some of the people here are still crazy or optimistic enough to hope that Harmony Gold might one day make an original Robotech title that doesn't completely suck. For the rest, the value in this thread is as a venue to vent about, or get a cheap laugh out of, the increasingly ridiculous antics of Robotech's more vocal proponents and supporters.

Nah... they haven't fallen back on another round of witch hunting as a source of amusement just yet. I think they might have finally realized that they've run out of convenient targets for their hostility now that they've scourged the fans of the novels, comics, failed projects, and Japanese originals from their midst.

Robotech fans insist the debate is still open. They come to Macross World and this thread was made to contain them to one thread.

Has that actually happened recently? I think the last one was Pizza the Hutt coming back under a thoroughly transparent alias to ask questions about the Macross licensing issue to settle a debate with another Robotech fan. Other than that, the last major visit was when Doug Bendo, Maverick_LSC, and MEMO1DOMINION all crashed this thread and received various punishments for acting like complete bellends.

[Legioss]

Most of them don't find their way to HG and Robotech Debates. They start their own thread and it gets locked. You'd have to put a ROBOTECH logo in the main forum list with a link here to catch them all. Since Robotech fans are willing to pay money for anything with that logo they wouldn't be able to resist it.

[Seto Kaiba]

Most of them don't find their way to HG and Robotech Debates. They start their own thread and it gets locked. You'd have to put a ROBOTECH logo in the main forum list with a link here to catch them all.

Granted, that's been a problem in the past... but for the last year or two we've had a bigger problem with crazy Robotech fans coming here just for this thread. Usually, the crazies from the Robotech fanbase who show up on MacrossWorld just for this thread fall into one of two basic flavors: drama queens looking for anything they can take offense to, and zealots who think criticizing the show or its "creators" is the very height of villainy. They're mercifully rare... but in some cases even a date with the banhammer can't keep them from coming here to "spy" on this thread.

Hell, at least two of those padded-room tenants are still coming here on a fairly regular basis, even after being banned, just to see what I'm saying about Robotech. Between all the various nutjobs "spying" on me, there've probably been more Robotech podcasts about me and what I have to say than there are about Carl Macek and Tommy Yune put together.

Since Robotech fans are willing to pay money for anything with that logo they wouldn't be able to resist it.

That's 90% of Harmony Gold's marketing strategy right there...

[Jasonc]

This issue is gonna rear it's ugly head over and over, as long as HG does crap like try to pass off LLA as a new production, which is what they are doing. Then you gotta wonder how they're going to tout this off as being "new"? What are they going to add to it to give it new life, other than changing a story to it and adding the voices? This probably would've been a great idea 10 years ago when they were first trying to get the name back out there and when the site was new. Now, it's just something they're trying to use for a popularity contest. Then to do all the work for it, and then say it's all Carl's vision...wow. Really? If it flopped as an idea and a work, would current staff take the blame, or would they put that on Carl as well?

For all the faults that people find here with Carl Macek, I think he did a great thing by doing what he needed to do to get these 3 series over here. If it wasn't for Robotech, I wouldn't have been able to see Macross for a lonnnnng time after it was made, and Mospeada and Southern Cross would be series I'd have probably never known. I think Carl's vision back then was great, just given to a company that isn't the most principled.

[Dynaman]

This issue is gonna rear it's ugly head over and over, as long as HG does crap like try to pass off LLA as a new production, which is what they are doing.

I thought that was nothing more then a joke at best and a rumor at worst. Do you have a link showing where it is confirmed they are dubbing LLA as the side story they were talking about?

[Seto Kaiba]

This issue is gonna rear it's ugly head over and over, as long as HG does crap like try to pass off LLA as a new production, which is what they are doing. Then you gotta wonder how they're going to tout this off as being "new"? What are they going to add to it to give it new life, other than changing a story to it and adding the voices?

Now, I gotta ask... has it actually been confirmed that the so-called "side story" Tommy's working on is a dub of Genesis Climber MOSPEADA: Love Live Alive, or is that just your assumption? I'll admit that Harmony Gold doing a dub of Love Live Alive to make a quick buck and maintain the illusion of progress sounds plausible enough, but it isn't the only possible explanation... and it certainly doesn't explain that bizarre and anatomically improbable bit of promo art Tommy was showing around.

This probably would've been a great idea 10 years ago when they were first trying to get the name back out there and when the site was new. [...] Then to do all the work for it, and then say it's all Carl's vision...wow. [...] If it flopped as an idea and a work, would current staff take the blame, or would they put that on Carl as well?

Despite all the noise we've heard from the spin doctors at Harmony Gold about how this so-called side story is the final part of Carl Macek's vision for Robotech, I doubt he actually had much to do with it. Harmony Gold has been downright shameless in using the man's death to promote projects he had no involvement in, and I can't shake the feeling this was, at best, something he only mentioned in passing. It was announced that he'd only returned to Robotech in an advisory capacity, so I doubt Tommy's rampant ego would make way for doing what someone else wanted.

Even if this side story project turns out to be a pathetic failure by the standards of the rest of the industry, you can bet they'll still laud it as a massive success. Harmony Gold sets the budgets and sales targets of Robotech projects absurdly low... that was they can call it a success even if the only people who buy it are the fans. If it really came down to an honest-to-goodness failure even the fans wouldn't buy into, they'd probably throw the blame on Carl's shoulders since he's not on payroll anymore and he's not exactly in a position to refute them.

[...] I think Carl's vision back then was great, just given to a company that isn't the most principled.

Okay... let's not fall into the trap of pretending that Carl Macek had some kind of preconceived creative vision when he made Robotech. It's simply a matter of record that the creative decisions that shat the Robotech TV series into being were generally made far above Macek's head and forced on the project by simple business necessity. The decision to combine Macross with other shows to get it long enough for networks to take an interest in it as a syndicated series was forced on them by Revell, and the choice of shows to add was made from only those shows that Harmony Gold had already licensed. The "creative process" of Robotech is really more the story of a man who just wanted to dub Super Dimension Fortress Macross and trying to make the best of a bad and rapidly deteriorating situation in the hopes of cashing in on a popular trend than any the story of someone struggling to carry out an original creative vision.

[Legioss]

In Robotech, protoculture is divided up into two things, The Robotech Masters, and Robotech's version of the spice (from Dune, which Macek was a fan of). The protoculture glues the three shows together as the reason the aliens attack Earth. It's my understanding, other than the story already encoded in the animation, the rest is by Bob Barron and the writers. Carl Macek was the producer. He helped choose the staff and the music. He coordinated the production. Bob Barron was the director. In interviews, Carl Macek sometimes expressed that he had a goal of changing the perception of animation to the American public so that they wouldn't think animation was just for children. He didn't turn it around completely. In America, despite Family Guy and South Park, animation is generally considered to be for children.

What he did was at two different times he increased the number of people in America who were exposed to Japanese animation. The first time was with the productions at Harmony Gold. This didn't start too many new professionally translated videos from other companies. The HG stuff went off the air and it would be about 5-6 years until something happened and that was started by Streamline Pictures. US Renditions and AnimEigo got some tapes out to the fans a few years before that, but Streamline Pictures (Carl Macek and Jerry Beck) got Japanese animated movies like Akira, Fist of the North Star (Hokuto No Ken movie), and Vampire Hunter D in video stores and on the Sci-Fi Channel. Many anime fans back then claimed their first anime was Akira. "What anime have you seen?", "I've seen Akira.", "You must be new." was how it was. Turns out though, increasing the amount of people watching anime doesn't make more fans and it doesn't change most people's opinion of animation. Increasing the amount of people watching anime just increases the amount of people watching anime. Most of them don't walk out of it with any revelation.

What I never understood about Carl's goal was that he wanted to make this cultural change supposedly, but he was certain it had to happen through dubs because the audience would be scared away by cultural differences. It's important to remember how Robotech and Streamline Pictures ended to see the whole picture. Much of the appeal of Japanese animation is in it's cultural differences.

[Gubaba]

What I never understood about Carl's goal was that he wanted to make this cultural change supposedly, but he was certain it had to happen through dubs because the audience would be scared away by cultural differences. It's important to remember how Robotech and Streamline Pictures ended to see the whole picture. Much of the appeal of Japanese animation is in it's cultural differences.

That's much of the appeal for anime fans. For the general audience that Macek was targeting, all that seems to end up happening is that they complain that, while they like some anime, most of it is "too Japanese" or "too weird" for them.

I think there's a middle-sized group of people in the west now who don't reject anime outright, but don't embrace it, either...and seem to NEED the kind of "smoothing the edges" that Star Blazers, Voltron, and Robotech (among others) provided.

[Keith]

Exactly, the majority still want to watch everything live action, in english, full screen, with sh!t blowing up, and now, in 3D. What they want is Avatar, and fundamentally, Robotech wasn't too far off from that concept.

[Gubaba]

Exactly, the majority still want to watch everything live action, in english, full screen, with sh!t blowing up, and now, in 3D. What they want is Avatar, and fundamentally, Robotech wasn't too far off from that concept.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing (mind you, I'm not saying it's a good thing, either). It just seems to be how it is.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Gubaba

[Legioss]

Yes, Robotech was and is giving these people something they would already like instead of introducing them to something new which doesn't make them any more receptive to mature animation than they were before. It doesn't lead them to anime in itself. If someone wanted to understand cultural differences through Robotech or reach a new understanding of what animation can be, they're on their own. I think it's weird how Carl Macek claimed he wanted to do one thing (his "vision"/goal) and how the way he tried to accomplish it didn't fit in with reality. Then there's people saying that Robotech did it when something like Akira seems more likely to fit what they're talking about given the gap between when Robotech was popular and Akira was popular outside Japan with nothing comparable in between that gap, making it just as easy to attribute the vision to the people who made Star Blazers or Voltron. IIRC the biggest fan groups in the 80s were for Star Blazers. These groups were filled with people who already liked to seek out weird stuff.

Just so you know, I think Akira is a stupid movie and I'm not interested in Star Blazers. I'm being subjective about it.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Legioss

[Keith]

Yes, Robotech was and is giving these people something they would already like instead of introducing them to something new which doesn't make them any more receptive to mature animation than they were before. It doesn't lead them to anime in itself. If someone wanted to understand cultural differences through Robotech or reach a new understanding of what animation can be, they're on their own. I think it's weird how Carl Macek claimed he wanted to do one thing (his "vision"/goal) and how the way he tried to accomplish it didn't fit in with reality. Then there's people saying that Robotech did it when something like Akira seems more likely to fit what they're talking about given the gap between when Robotech was popular and Akira was popular outside Japan with nothing comparable in between that gap, making it just as easy to attribute the vision to the people who made Star Blazers or Voltron. IIRC the biggest fan groups in the 80s were for Star Blazers. These groups were filled with people who already liked to seek out weird stuff.

Just so you know, I think Akira is a stupid movie and I'm not interested in Star Blazers. I'm being subjective about it.

How can you not love UCHUU SENKAN YAMATO! You sir have no heart!

[Einherjar]

I think there's a middle-sized group of people in the west now who don't reject anime outright, but don't embrace it, either...and seem to NEED the kind of "smoothing the edges" that Star Blazers, Voltron, and Robotech (among others) provided.

Isn't that pretty much saying when people were younger they had little to no idea where their entertainment really came from and didn't care because it all looked the same anyway and in a language they could understand?

[Xeros]

How can you not love UCHUU SENKAN YAMATO! You sir have no heart!

Isn't that pretty much saying when people were younger they had little to no idea where their entertainment really came from and didn't care because it all looked the same anyway and in a language they could understand?

Well, Im pretty sure at least here in Chile that was the case. If I not mistaken the first translated VHS came around at time of the Macross Plus release, and if you wanted to get something more specific, you had to resort on a LD rip with english subtitles, wich means the kids were put out of the picture by a language barrier (thank goodness my parents sent my to a british school)

Now on the macross case, putting aside macross plus there were nothing available so no wonder people doesn't care about it

And I still enjoy saying "HERETIC" to my friends when I show them macross stuff and the say "oh, that's robotech"

[Legioss]

I don't hate Yamato. I just never got around to watching it. Is it really that good? I know it's Matsumoto. I guess I should watch it then. Added to queue.

I'm currently inflicting Engine Sentai Go-Onger on myself. I want to see it before Shinkenger, no matter how bad it is.

[Wanzerfan]

Star Blazers was excellent for the time (I don't know if it's a part of Harlock's universe or not). the scene I remember from that seres is when Alex Wildstar used the Wave Motion Gun in a way it wasn't designed for to get the Argo out of a very sticky situation.

[Bri]

In interviews, Carl Macek sometimes expressed that he had a goal of changing the perception of animation to the American public so that they wouldn't think animation was just for children. He didn't turn it around completely. In America, despite Family Guy and South Park, animation is generally considered to be for children.

If Macek was so serious about opening up animation to older audiences, why the need for dumbing down Robotech by adding narration and simplifying relationships? Would his so called adult audience not be able to grasp concepts aimed at young Japanese? I don't buy it. Robotech has never been more then a hastily put together project to cash in on the success of Transformers. Macek just got lucky that a high school/college crowd picked it up, but I don't believe it was intentional.

I think there's a middle-sized group of people in the west now who don't reject anime outright, but don't embrace it, either...and seem to NEED the kind of "smoothing the edges" that Star Blazers, Voltron, and Robotech (among others) provided.

Isn't that pretty much saying when people were younger they had little to no idea where their entertainment really came from and didn't care because it all looked the same anyway and in a language they could understand?

I think you both make a good point here. Gubaba describes the difference between an animation fan and a anime fan. Still, if Einherjar's point holds. What then was the difference between 80s animation (like Transformers, G.I.JOE and Thundercats)that were produced in Japan and 90s localized Japanese shows (like Pokemon, Sailormoon and Dragonball Z) that really triggered the western anime boom?

[Gubaba]

Isn't that pretty much saying when people were younger they had little to no idea where their entertainment really came from and didn't care because it all looked the same anyway and in a language they could understand?

Not really. My point is that anime has a lot of touches that seem not to sit well with a lot of westerners, ranging from nudity and sexual situations to rather bizarre scenes that are rather avant garde.

Personally, I (obviously) like all the little bits that seem bizarre (the ending of Akira, the entirety of The End of Evangelion, the pure outrageousness of Fist of the North Star), but I can understand why others don't care for it. And it's not like Western stuff isn't often bizarre as well...

[Dynaman]

I don't hate Yamato. I just never got around to watching it. Is it really that good? I know it's Matsumoto. I guess I should watch it then. Added to queue.

If you do watch it here is my take. (take it or leave it)

The first series is very good, even the star blazers dub is good. I'd recommend either.

The First movie, although the Japanese loved it I hate it. Take the first series, chop in the action scenes (not bad) and chop out almost all of the drama (bad). All the drama and plot is told through a voiceover, yuck...

Second Movie - One of my all time animated favorites.

Second Series - Just as good as the first (in Star Blazers too)

Third Series - AVOID the english dub, never saw the Japanese version.

third movie - OK

Fourth Movie - OK

Fifth Movie - I loved it, best quality animation of the entire Yamato franchise (till the latest movie possibly). I'm also a sucker for the alternate ending.

[Jasonc]

I thought that was nothing more then a joke at best and a rumor at worst. Do you have a link showing where it is confirmed they are dubbing LLA as the side story they were talking about?

There's no link, but see below for the answer

Now, I gotta ask... has it actually been confirmed that the so-called "side story" Tommy's working on is a dub of Genesis Climber MOSPEADA: Love Live Alive, or is that just your assumption? I'll admit that Harmony Gold doing a dub of Love Live Alive to make a quick buck and maintain the illusion of progress sounds plausible enough, but it isn't the only possible explanation... and it certainly doesn't explain that bizarre and anatomically improbable bit of promo art Tommy was showing around.

I know people who know. Other than that, there's been too many hints that Tommy has given in regards to what it supposedly is. Now, if they change what they're doing, then all bets are off, but that's about all I'm gonna say on that.

Despite all the noise we've heard from the spin doctors at Harmony Gold about how this so-called side story is the final part of Carl Macek's vision for Robotech, I doubt he actually had much to do with it. Harmony Gold has been downright shameless in using the man's death to promote projects he had no involvement in, and I can't shake the feeling this was, at best, something he only mentioned in passing. It was announced that he'd only returned to Robotech in an advisory capacity, so I doubt Tommy's rampant ego would make way for doing what someone else wanted.

Even if this side story project turns out to be a pathetic failure by the standards of the rest of the industry, you can bet they'll still laud it as a massive success. Harmony Gold sets the budgets and sales targets of Robotech projects absurdly low... that was they can call it a success even if the only people who buy it are the fans. If it really came down to an honest-to-goodness failure even the fans wouldn't buy into, they'd probably throw the blame on Carl's shoulders since he's not on payroll anymore and he's not exactly in a position to refute them.

I agree, as I've stated these same type of sentiments before.

Okay... let's not fall into the trap of pretending that Carl Macek had some kind of preconceived creative vision when he made Robotech. It's simply a matter of record that the creative decisions that shat the Robotech TV series into being were generally made far above Macek's head and forced on the project by simple business necessity. The decision to combine Macross with other shows to get it long enough for networks to take an interest in it as a syndicated series was forced on them by Revell, and the choice of shows to add was made from only those shows that Harmony Gold had already licensed. The "creative process" of Robotech is really more the story of a man who just wanted to dub Super Dimension Fortress Macross and trying to make the best of a bad and rapidly deteriorating situation in the hopes of cashing in on a popular trend than any the story of someone struggling to carry out an original creative vision.

Most know the reason for why Robotech was 3 different series into one. I didn't say Carl had this plan to create Robotech from the get-go as is. Nevertheless, based on the circumstances and how it all worked out, he was an integral part in making what they were given work. I can still watch Robotech and enjoy watching it, no nostalgia involved. That's a good sign that they did something right. And no matter how we can slice and dice it, Robotech is decently known and loved, especially in South America. What people know and remember of it, is probably one of the reasons why it has so many problems adapting to today. Hearing VAs and staff talk about the work they did on Robotech back in the 80s, you can tell the attitude of the work was much different than it is now. Aside from the awesome work that Macross was, the staff did a very good job of adapting it and fitting it to what was the norm for the time, and for t.v. here in the U.S. It really is no wonder why Robotech will pretty much be stuck in the past. For HG, that maybe a bad thing, but it's not so bad in reality.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Jasonc

[Zor Primus]

At this stage of the game LLA re-dub as a side story to SC would show as about 300% less effort in the franchise as Joe Blow RT fan writing a fan fic. I'd be embarrassed for them if this is actually what is going to happen.

I wonder how the average RT would react to this if it becomes reality. Personally I'd probably chuckle at the polarized opinions.

But...if its about new artwork then drawing from LLA is what will happen. A comic based on LLA maybe? I'm sorry I just am finding it still difficult to believe/swallow/comprehend HG would go as far as presenting a 25 year old piece of anime as something new.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Zor Primus

[Jasonc]

At this stage of the game LLA re-dub as a side story to SC would show as about 300% less effort in the franchise as Joe Blow RT fan writing a fan fic. I'd be embarrassed for them if this is actually what is going to happen.

I wonder how the average RT would react to this if it becomes reality. Personally I'd probably chuckle at the polarized opinions.

But...if its about new artwork then drawing from LLA is what will happen. A comic based on LLA maybe? I'm sorry I just am finding it still difficult to believe/swallow/comprehend HG would go as far as presenting a 25 year old piece of anime as something new.

Who knows, maybe a backlash of this idea will squash the idea? I wouldn't have had any negative remark if this was done say 10 years ago. It would've been a great spark for the franchise. Then had they done RTSC afterward, well, it probably still would've sucked, but at least it would've been something more. Now, the idea just seems like an afterthought, something to try to keep a failing spark alive. I'd actually be interested in it if it came with the original Love Live Alive, but what are the chances of that happening? Oh well. Maybe all this news getting out will change what they are planning. If not, its success/failure will only really be known when it's out.

[chrisk]

Now, the idea just seems like an afterthought, something to try to keep a failing spark alive.

Looking back at the San Diego and AnimeExpo Robotech panels - the "new animated movie" announcement shtick felt a bit... desperate. (remember the guy who got banned for "leaking" that picture?)

To be fair, maybe the idea of releasing a redubbed LLA isn't the worst idea Harmony Gold can come up with. Jason is right - the timing seems awful.

Had they released this in 2004, people might've given a crap.

Y'see, 2004 was the beginning of Harmony Gold trying to exploit the New Generation license. They released the forgettable "origin" story of Lancer Dancer and an awful FPS game called Robotech: Invasion (see Youtube for gameplay videos) - so what better way to round out this crapfecta than with the LLA redub?

It didn't happen. So now they announced it shortly after Carl Macek passed away - claiming it's got something to do with Macek's legacy. I guess if you slap in some kind of documentary of Robotech and its fandom, it could work...?!?

[Keith]

That leaked picture still doesn't jive with a dub of LLA. An entirely different problem being, who would they get to distribute it. Maybe if they were planning on something slightly more interesting, like a completely re-animated robotech-centric take on LLA, you know, like retcon recaps of Mospeada era episodes with new animation to reflect their current designs & sh!tty robotech music, that might be worth something. But literally using LLA doesn't quite make sense with that picture that was shown.

On the flipside, if it was 100% un-edited LLA with Japanese dub, subtitles, and reversable cover, that I wouldn't mind. Until such time, I'll enjoy my R2!

[VFTF1]

I open this thread during work hoping to hear drivel and instead I get an intelligent conversation that I can't read in 3 seconds!?

scandal!!

I'll be back

Pete

[Seto Kaiba]

I know people who know. Other than that, there's been too many hints that Tommy has given in regards to what it supposedly is.

Uh... yeah, let's put no faith in hearsay and "friend of a friend" tales. I'll admit it sounds very plausible, but until they actually announce it as such or it becomes obvious by other means (e.g. screen captures or trailers) then I think I'll hang onto my skepticism over the whole Love Live Alive dub hypothesis. It just doesn't jive with what's shown in the only piece of promotional material we've seen for it. If they were advertising Love Live Alive as an idiotic side story for Robotech, why advertise it with a picture of Sera carrying Invid weaponry?

I wonder how the average RT would react to this if it becomes reality. Personally I'd probably chuckle at the polarized opinions.

Just knowing who's left active in the online Robotech fanbase, there's going to be one hell of a fight over how that'd fit with the revamped continuity. Rhade would probably poo out a kidney trying to make a case for how they could fit it in.

Looking back at the San Diego and AnimeExpo Robotech panels - the "new animated movie" announcement shtick felt a bit... desperate. (remember the guy who got banned for "leaking" that picture?)

Name me one attempt to revive Robotech that HASN'T come off as at least a little bit desperate.

[chrisk]

That leaked picture still doesn't jive with a dub of LLA.

I don't think that image is some big secret. In fact, I recall seeing that same image used in some anniversary booklet/wallpaper or something. Besides, wouldn't a pic of Lancer singing give away the identity of the project? Also, lets not forget that Tommy believes Robotech needs big boobies to sell itself better to the modern anime audience.

Maybe if they were planning on something slightly more interesting, like a completely re-animated robotech-centric take on LLA, you know, like retcon recaps of Mospeada era episodes with new animation to reflect their current designs & sh!tty robotech music, that might be worth something.

I understand your concern. I wish I were wrong, but d'ya really think Harmony Gold, after the hoopla of selling the rights to WB, and flushed with the "success" of Shadow Chronicles between 2007 and 2009, would somehow think about pooling enough funds to animate a sidestory?

On the flipside, if it was 100% un-edited LLA with Japanese dub, subtitles, and reversable cover, that I wouldn't mind. Until such time, I'll enjoy my R2!

Harmony Gold has made a couple of attempts throughout the years to block people from producing content dedicated to the orignal Mospeada so... why start now?

[Jasonc]

That leaked picture still doesn't jive with a dub of LLA. An entirely different problem being, who would they get to distribute it. Maybe if they were planning on something slightly more interesting, like a completely re-animated robotech-centric take on LLA, you know, like retcon recaps of Mospeada era episodes with new animation to reflect their current designs & sh!tty robotech music, that might be worth something. But literally using LLA doesn't quite make sense with that picture that was shown.

On the flipside, if it was 100% un-edited LLA with Japanese dub, subtitles, and reversable cover, that I wouldn't mind. Until such time, I'll enjoy my R2!

It doesn't, but it's just Tommy's art. It's more liken to a comic book cover that only loosely relates to the story inside, except for maybe minor references (like Sera as the character). Tommy isn't doing the animation as he isn't an animator, but it's his artwork.

I open this thread during work hoping to hear drivel and instead I get an intelligent conversation that I can't read in 3 seconds!?

scandal!!

I'll be back

Pete

Hahaha, sory.

Uh... yeah, let's put no faith in hearsay and "friend of a friend" tales. I'll admit it sounds very plausible, but until they actually announce it as such or it becomes obvious by other means (e.g. screen captures or trailers) then I think I'll hang onto my skepticism over the whole Love Live Alive dub hypothesis. It just doesn't jive with what's shown in the only piece of promotional material we've seen for it. If they were advertising Love Live Alive as an idiotic side story for Robotech, why advertise it with a picture of Sera carrying Invid weaponry?

I would based on who they are and their first hand knowledge of it, not second or third hand info.

[Seto Kaiba]

I wish I were wrong, but d'ya really think Harmony Gold, after the hoopla of selling the rights to WB, and flushed with the "success" of Shadow Chronicles between 2007 and 2009, would somehow think about pooling enough funds to animate a sidestory?

Yes, I do... ever since Tommy let slip that senior management put the brakes on Robotech: Shadow Rising while they wait for Warner to make a move, they've been under pressure to get something out there to convince the fans that their fears of a backslide into the release doldrums of the 90s are baseless. This fly-by-night attempt to put together a side story on the cheap is exactly the sort of thing I would expect them to do to produce the illusion of progress. Remember what they did back when Shadow Chronicles was delayed for the third or fourth time? They tried to distract the fans by trotting out a badly animated (and hilariously ill-timed) PSA supporting the United Nations.

I would based on who they are and their first hand knowledge of it, not second or third hand info.

Even people who are ordinarily reliable can be wrong... or spreading misinformation, which Harmony Gold puts rather too much enthusiasm into.

[Legioss]

I'm sure whatever it is, it's going to make Itsuwari no Utahime look like cheap amateur fanfic and you'll all ask what were you thinking for ever doubting Robotech, begging Tommy for forgiveness so you can be in the insiders gang and not an outcast to the fandom, and you'll go "Tell MEMO he was right. He was right..." when they take off your Macross purist respirator mask. Then you'll get to stand next to Macek in spirit form, a born-again Harmony Gold believer, while the primitive Tommewoks on the forest moon of Bendor celebrate Harmony Gold's worldwide acquisition of all things Macross. The minuscule Macross fandom, just a small group of holdouts, will see Harmony Gold's hard work and realize the long oppressed series Robotech has risen high into the air like SDF-1 Macross lifting off. I can feel it. The Shadow Force is giving me a taste of the inside information I could have.

[Seto Kaiba]

The Shadow Force is giving me a taste of the inside information I could have.

Dude... if you're gonna drop acid before you post, at least give us a little warning. That's one bad trip you're on.

[Legioss]

Sorry man. I guess I had too much Zereba.

[Einherjar]

I think you both make a good point here. Gubaba describes the difference between an animation fan and a anime fan. Still, if Einherjar's point holds. What then was the difference between 80s animation (like Transformers, G.I.JOE and Thundercats)that were produced in Japan and 90s localized Japanese shows (like Pokemon, Sailormoon and Dragonball Z) that really triggered the western anime boom?

Now that you mention it, unlike anime, was it a big deal for people to know the individual people responsible for shows like Thundercats and G.I.Joe back then? I'm not just talking about voice actors, but the other behind-the-scenes people. For instance, knowing that Matt Groening was the creator of The Simpsons and Futurama is pretty important these days.

In other words, was there ever a wide-spread priority for people to know who the brainchild for Transformers and Thundercats were?

Edited October 27, 2010 by Einherjar